[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[Alan75]

I defy anyone to keep dry trying to get away from the bar at half time.

[stuwilky]

I defy anyone to keep dry trying to get away from the bar at half time.

I can, using the quick service bottle bar.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

If the outcome of the takeover is one where there are plans to invest heavily in players AND redevelop the Riverside dont you think thats the best outcome all round stuwilky?.....move forward on all fronts.

The way nicko keeps dropping hints I think/hope this may well be the case.

[stuwilky]

If the outcome of the takeover is one where there are plans to invest heavily in players AND redevelop the Riverside dont you think thats the best outcome all round stuwilky?.....move forward on all fronts.

If one doesnt result in a loss of the other, then yes - sadly I dont believe we are in Utopia.......

[thenodrog]

When you find out the scale of what is planned you will realise why some things take time.

The more I hear about this Dan Williams project the more I like it.

Partick Thistle to be 'feeder club'?

[dave birch]

Whilst my first impressions of the takeover were favourable, I'm beginning to doubt whether it will ever happen in the short term.

Philipl touched on it in a post some time back, but its not been persued fully.

It's my thought that Williams D will have to fund this purchase with debt. I just have a feeling he won't be able to get sufficiently wealthy people to throw their own cash in. To them it will have to be a money making operation rather than a plaything. At the moment, particularly in the US, the sub prime mortgage market has dried up to the point of no money being available.

So where does this leave the club? What does the trust deed have to say about the sale of the club, and what caveats are in place in the trust deed? Will the trust deed allow the club to be sold knowing that it will be loaded with debt?

Thought anyone?

[seahawkdad]

Well, maybe not so dire. There is still a lot of commercial real estate development money at play in the States. Billions and billions.

For instance, DC United's new owners are looking to build a $150M stadium.

And this is what, as you'll see, drives this question: does anyone have insight into who else is in this with Williams?

The reason I ask is that William Chang, a new owner of DC United and a part owner of the San Francisco Giants baseball team has been quoted as saying he's looking at a couple of English football clubs to purchase.

Mr. Chang is also in the real estate development business, as is Mr. Williams, and in the international realm, as is Williams.

We could only hope. Will comes to the pre-game Barra Brava tail gates and also comes into the supporters' sections during matches. He absolutely loves the game and understands sports ownership and fan needs.

Any word about this?

[American]

To them it will have to be a money making operation rather than a plaything.

So you don't think we should be run as a self-sufficient business? Jack thought that we should...

[philipl]

Yes but Jack made provision for an annual cash injection into Rovers of £6m effectively.

So for Rovers fans to be neutral about the take over, we need to see

a) where the replacement £6m a year is coming from

and if profits are to be remitted to shareholders and debts repaid, where they are coming from.

The DW consortium have talked about a £64m investment which I understand is the TOTAL sum available both for the exiting Trust and investment in the club. If that £64m is earning 15% per annum, that is £10m a year exiting.

So £6m + £10m extra surplus (£16m) on a business that last year turned over £42m.

This only makes sense as a self-sufficient business if the investors are going to take ALL the Prem TV increment for themselves (about £10m) and believe in their own marketing ability/ Prem enduring attractiveness for the next TV deal to be even better to use as their selling point to replace the Walker Trust's annual £6m.

I don't believe it and their extensive use of Nicko (see all Nicko's pro-DW contributions and extensive inside knowledge claims- leaking to a red top journo is an unusual way of negotiating with Trustees) to sell it to us indicates they don't expect the fans to swallow it either without a huge dollop of positive PR.

Is there also an element of negative PR subtely against the existing club's ownership coming into play?

All goodwill/tolerance of the DW consortium allowed by Rovers fans should have disappeared with the Southampton episode. And when the spinners come on again saying it wasn't DW, there is a quote from DW directly related to the Southampton episode saying he was looking at other clubs. He also popped up at Sheffield Wednesday.

I suspect his allocation of money is time-limited.

I do know some thing about what happened at Southampton.

[philipl]

Well, maybe not so dire. There is still a lot of commercial real estate development money at play in the States. Billions and billions.

For instance, DC United's new owners are looking to build a $150M stadium.

And this is what, as you'll see, drives this question: does anyone have insight into who else is in this with Williams?

The reason I ask is that William Chang, a new owner of DC United and a part owner of the San Francisco Giants baseball team has been quoted as saying he's looking at a couple of English football clubs to purchase.

Mr. Chang is also in the real estate development business, as is Mr. Williams, and in the international realm, as is Williams.

We could only hope. Will comes to the pre-game Barra Brava tail gates and also comes into the supporters' sections during matches. He absolutely loves the game and understands sports ownership and fan needs.

Any word about this?

Plainfield are backing DW.

I don't know if they are linked to Mr Chang.

Incidentally, that LT article from June said the bid would go in that week. It is August tomorrow.

My point is that the sub-prime crisis is impacting the prime corporate market- Cadburys, Boots and Daimler-Chrysler are all deals that are facing difficulty- so it is legitimate to question whether another transatlantic deal (Blackburn Rovers) is being effected.

I understand that the property investments of Dan Williams are in West Africa- I don't know where West Africa sits on the USA prime to sub-prime scale of property risks.

[dave birch]

So you don't think we should be run as a self-sufficient business? Jack thought that we should...

American, philipl has expressed it perfectly. These guys will want a return on their money. With Jack, his initial contribution was to set the club up so that it could stand on it's own, I doubt that he expected a return on those funds. His ongoing contribution through his Trust deed is to keep the Rovers ticking over until a suitable buyer can be found. I can't see much of a return on those either.

Now, I don't know the contents of the trust deed, but almost certainly it will contain caveats that a future buyer of the Rovers must meet in order to effect a sale, and of one thing that I'm certain about the trust deed is that it will have a termination date.

[Paul]

.......and their extensive use of Nicko (see all Nicko's pro-DW contributions and extensive inside knowledge claims- leaking to a red top journo is an unusual way of negotiating with Trustees) to sell it to us indicates they don't expect the fans to swallow it either without a huge dollop of positive PR.

Is there also an element of negative PR subtely against the existing club's ownership coming into play?

When you find out the scale of what is planned you will realise why some things take time.

The more I hear about this Dan Williams project the more I like it.

The more I hear / read I dislike the Williams project for the simple reason outlined by philip. "The scale of what is planned," we can take that any number of ways. Unlimited funds to put us back to 1995? Somehow I think not, it worked then but it could not work now. How about this one? Ewood Park is in the wrong place. If Uncle Jack ever made a mistake at Ewood it was to rebuild on the existing site. Somehow this deal has to be financed and to earn a profit so perhaps "the scale of what is planned" includes moving us lock, stock and barrel to somewhere close to the M65. For all the fine ideas there is no logical financial reason in developing the existing ground to provide other income streams (hotel,etc.) Would everyone feel so cheery then?

John Williams and his team have put huge effort into stabilising attendances at Ewood. If we had the fan base it would have reacted by now. We need another £6m of income without the Walker Trust to balance the books. Now I realise JW and TF have their critics but I think even those fans would appreciate magicing another £6m out of Rovers as we stand today is near impossible. Until any investor comes up with a workable plan which has some realism in it we should all be extremely sceptical.

[nicko]

Partick Thistle to be 'feeder club'?

Now there's a thought.

Can we have Gally on loan for the season?

[nicko]

I don't believe it and their extensive use of Nicko (see all Nicko's pro-DW contributions and extensive inside knowledge claims- leaking to a red top journo is an unusual way of negotiating with Trustees) to sell it to us indicates they don't expect the fans to swallow it either without a huge dollop of positive PR.

Just to put that straight right away.

When I wrote the first Daily Mirror story about the American bid I did not know who Dan Williams was. No idea.

It was only after that article that I found out that a guy called Dan Williams was behind the plan. I contacted him before the Sunday People story and he denied it. I still ran it because I had the info.

The week after - again as a spin-off - I found out that there were people from Plainfield as part of the team. I did my homework, found out about meetings and something of what they are about. Again this was denied by the Williams camp before I wrote the story. I went ahead.

Does that sound like a PR man to you? Do you think Dan Williams wanted a story about a company piling in millions to be written at a delicate time when they could have walked away because of the publicity.

In the story I referred to the fact that I thought the bid was miles bigger than anyone else's. Ironically that has turned into the hold-up in all of this. So I wrote that BEFORE Dan Williams found out. If he had known this in advance he would not have offered the original figure.

I have to stress that I am 'pro' the whole idea because I think it will come with good news attached. I am not a Rovers fans, just somebody who thinks guys with money should be encouraged in football.

In this case I believe the man involed has huge ideas for success - not making a quick buck.

Of course you plan to make a profit but that comes with [a] filling the ground good league positions and [c] the Champions League/ Obviously [c] comes with a risk as Leeds United will tell you.

Can someone tell me how you could make a quick and easy buck at Rovers anyway? I will buy it myself.

I only came onto this site to defend my story and people sniping at the fella. We all suffer in silence.

I find the idea that I have leaked stories to help Dan Williams as utterly offensive. My agenda is get stories, get paid, sell papers.

Did you know that the Sunday People had a record 'spike' in sales on the two Sundays when he had the stories? You have no idea of what that does for getting your club in the news more often. Most of the time you get total indifference from London offices who are too short-staffed or lazy to make an effort. It was a very sweet time.

I may be an old romantic, but I think there could be similar times ahead. Yes, I'm quite stirred up because I know what the guy is working overtime to achieve.

Anyway, that's the steam been let off...

[thenodrog]

The week after - again as a spin-off - I found out that there were people from Plainfield as part of the team. I did my homework, found out about meetings and something of what they are about. Again this was denied by the Williams camp before I wrote the story. I went ahead.

Does that sound like a PR man to you? Do you think Dan Williams wanted a story about a company piling in millions to be written at a delicate time when they could have walked away because of the publicity.

In the story I referred to the fact that I thought the bid was miles bigger than anyone else's. Ironically that has turned into the hold-up in all of this. So I wrote that BEFORE Dan Williams found out. If he had known this in advance he would not have offered the original figure.

No doubt you have your reasons for backing this takeover .... but you are right there nicko he doesn't sound like a PR man and I've got to say (if the last sentence of the above quote is true) that he doesn't sound like much of a businessman either. Most successful businessmen imo do their homework first.

[dave birch]

In this case I believe the man involed has huge ideas for success - not making a quick buck.

.

.

.

I may be an old romantic, but I think there could be similar times ahead. Yes, I'm quite stirred up because I know what the guy is working overtime to achieve.

Anyway, that's the steam been let off...

Nicko, part of me wants to believe that Williams D will effect a buyout.

Part of me has this nagging doubt, and despite the answer you gave philipl, I'm not sure that you aren't a "plant" to placate the fans, the highlighted part says to me you are closer to Williams D than you are admitting to.

Appreciate the rest of the rumours though; it makes for an entertaining off season.

You can tell me I'm reading too much between the lines, if indeed I am.

[nicko]

Oh dear, I have been rumbled.

And I suppose Dan Williams told me about Rigters, Todd, Santa Cruz, Beattie and asked me to pass that information on to the fans.

Let me show you a copy of an e-mail sent the day before I wrote the first Sunday People story - and the reply.

This is confidential, but frankly what the hell. I have blanked out any sensitive areas

To: d.williams@***************.com

Sent: 6/15/07 4:51 PM

Subject: BLACKBURN ROVERS

Mr Williams,

My name is Alan Nixon, I am a football reporter for the Sunday People

newspaper.

I would like to speak to you about the imminent takeover of Blackburn Rovers.

Could you please contact me on ************?

Many thanks

Alan Nixon

The reply was...

I think you want to talk to JOHN Williams, who I believe is the Chairman of Blackburn.

I know no more about an imminent takeover than you do.

Have a good weekend

Dan Williams

[youandwhosearmy]

Nicko, dont rise to the bait. Some people on this message board are obviously out there trying to prove you are not genuine.

Its annoying to be honest. Just leave them to get on with it, they will no doubt, carry on with or without your comments.

[modes98]

Most successful businessmen imo do their homework first.

Football can rule over your head and make you do things you wouldn't normally. I'm sure the trust did all in their power to make him believe the any other bids on the table were of higher value and how could he check that?

Part of me has this nagging doubt, and despite the answer you gave philipl, I'm not sure that you aren't a "plant" to placate the fans, the highlighted part says to me you are closer to Williams D than you are admitting to.

Mr Williams has been quite silent recently after all nicko's exclusives. I vaguely seem to recall it being mentioned that Mr Williams surfs rovers sites and forums from his american pad. Would he consider answering a few structured questions from members of the this board? As any devoted topic would become a free for all, much like your own has.

[Damage]

I find the idea that I have leaked stories to help Dan Williams as utterly offensive. My agenda is get stories, get paid, sell papers.

Exactly!! And it is in YOUR best interests that this story continues.

And whilst I wouldnt ever accuse a tabloid journo of over-elaborating maybe it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a really astute businessman (only occasional mistakes on valuations) could pull the wool over your eyes and have you do their PR work for them? Unkowingly of course!

[mike at picture]

Exactly!! And it is in YOUR best interests that this story continues.

And whilst I wouldnt ever accuse a tabloid journo of over-elaborating maybe it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a really astute businessman (only occasional mistakes on valuations) could pull the wool over your eyes and have you do their PR work for them? Unkowingly of course!

Exactly how many national newspapers do you reckon sell on the back of stories about Rovers?

[nicko]

WHAT PR?

Story one - American deal...no name.

Story two - Dan Williams name mentioned...despite denial.

Story three - Backers...probably unpopular with the conspiracy theorists and certainly with Dan Williams.

Story four - backed off, been approached by rival clubs...I think that has been stood up...or was that all a game too?

Story five - closing in on deal at reduced level...fact.

Who exactly is the PR supposed to be for anyway? The only people Dan Williams has to win over are the club - not the fans at this stage.

I was only answering repeated requests to keep people up to date on this story.

Would you rather I didn't bother?

In fact that is the last word on the subject from this end until it happens.

[gazsimm]

nicko i would like your job, u don't seem to be rushed of your feet do you, spending all day on here

[nicko]

Exactly how many national newspapers do you reckon sell on the back of stories about Rovers?

On that one I can only tell you that the Sunday People had a 10-15 per cent rise in sales in the Blackburn area.

In today's market that is a big jump. Bigger than anything they usually get when they give away a freebie DVD or CD.

So, news sells papers.

I like the sound of that idea.

[mike at picture]

WHAT PR?

Story one - American deal...no name.

Story two - Dan Williams name mentioned...despite denial.

Story three - Backers...probably unpopular with the conspiracy theorists and certainly with Dan Williams.

Story four - backed off, been approached by rival clubs...I think that has been stood up...or was that all a game too?

Story five - closing in on deal at reduced level...fact.

Who exactly is the PR supposed to be for anyway? The only people Dan Williams has to win over are the club - not the fans at this stage.

I was only answering repeated requests to keep people up to date on this story.

Would you rather I didn't bother?

In fact that is the last word on the subject from this end until it happens.

F***sake Nicko.

You must know the majority on here want to read your contributions.

Some dont- fair enough, they dont need to read your posts. Keep 'em coming pal.