[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[RevidgeBlue]

The story first broke in the Mirror and then the People, btw.

The last I heard Dan Williams is putting in a big chunk of the money. I can't imagine he would let his partners hire or fire him. It would best to describe him as the man with the plan. I don't think he's daft, so he will be well-covered.

Thanks for your response on DW.

Slip of the keyboard there I really meant when the story first broke in the LT.

[RevidgeBlue]

£6m a season is what the trust have averaged over the last 7 or so years, on the actual balance sheet.

True, but if those borrowings from the Trustees no longer exist after a takeover (which they won't) and new owners were to inject 3m cash in p.a. we'd be in exactly the same position as presently.

Arguably we need significantly more than that (10m p.a.?) to make a huge difference in today's climate.

[thenodrog]

To be fair to Dan Williams he has had a knack of talking people into backing his ideas so far.

I'm sure he has Alan.

But imo top 4 status on a regular basis is a pipe dream.

1. If the Arse get a US backer we are back to square one.

2. Other clubs like WHU / City etc are receiving the kind of money that makes 25million look like loose change..... a sop to satiate the masses.

3. Catch 22 situation ............ If we do ever get in the top 4 Mark Hughes will be enticed away.

The politics are wrong in football. The best thing that could happen to BRFC and others would be a levelling of the remuneration received between UEFA Cup and Champions League football.

[stuwilky]

True, but if those borrowings from the Trustees no longer exist after a takeover (which they won't) and new owners were to inject 3m cash in p.a. we'd be in exactly the same position as presently.

No we wouldn't, the new owners would either have to inherit or repay the loans. They have already been paid off - it is a moot point, they cant be paid twice.

[nicko]

But imo top 4 status on a regular basis is a pipe dream.

1. If the Arse get a US backer we are back to square one.

2. Other clubs like WHU / City etc are receiving the kind of money that makes 25million look like loose change..... a sop to satiate the masses.

3. Catch 22 situation ............ If we do ever get in the top 4 Mark Hughes will be enticed away.

1 - I accept that. I would like to point out it is not MY idea. I'm only telling you what is being considered. If I was a fan I would like the thrill of chasing something big. As long as you do not go into debt doing it.

2 - West Ham and Man City are spending big, in some cases crazily. But ask a Hammer if he is happy about old Egghead or try telling a City fan that Thaksin should be sent back to answer the charges in Thailan. It's football, it has no logic. Enjoy.

3 - Now that I am sure of. Mark Hughes is more likely to stay if there is money and ambition. What he has done so far is remarkable. But the guy is used to the big-time. If Rovers was a club with good money to spend and a 'safe' place to work he would better to stay than go to Man U, Chelsea or Tottenham.

[RevidgeBlue]

No we wouldn't, the new owners would either have to inherit or repay the loans. They have already been paid off - it is a moot point, they cant be paid twice.

Don't understand the point you are making stu. Any indebtedness to the Trustees would be wiped out in the purchase price, leaving a lesser or greater amout available for players etc.

[RevidgeBlue]

3. Catch 22 situation ............ If we do ever get in the top 4 Mark Hughes will be enticed away.

Agree with the rest of your post, but don't agree with that bit Gordon. Us reaching the top four is probably the only way he wouldn't ever consider a move elsewhere, and let's face it, if we did get to that exalted level we wouldn't have that much to worry about anyway.

[thenodrog]

It would cost fortunes to chase the title. It would cost small fortunes, well-spent, to crack the top four. I think £25 million in the current climate is a 'small fortune.'

3. Catch 22 situation ............ If we do ever get in the top 4 Mark Hughes will be enticed away.

Agree with the rest of your post, but don't agree with that bit Gordon. Us reaching the top four is probably the only way he wouldn't ever consider a move elsewhere, and let's face it, if we did get to that exalted level we wouldn't have that much to worry about anyway.

Rev get thos blue tinted specs off this minute! If Hughes got a chance to actually win the Prem and the Champions League with either MU or Chelsea he would be off like a shot.

[USABlue]

25 Million!!!! I couldn't see Sparky wanting to spend that kind of money even if it was available. I see him as a bit of a tight @#/?. That said, if he can bring in the kind of quality he has in the 1-3 million range he could probaly do quite well.

[bluebruce]

25 Million!!!! I couldn't see Sparky wanting to spend that kind of money even if it was available. I see him as a bit of a tight @#/?. That said, if he can bring in the kind of quality he has in the 1-3 million range he could probaly do quite well.

I don't think he's a tight @#/?. I think he knows he has a limited budget, and works within it. Also, the way he moulds his public image as being a bit tight is to ensure better deals within his budget. If he has plenty of money to spend, he's going to spend it- but wisely, as ever. If he went to manure or someone, he would most certainly not still be buying all his players for 1-3 mill. With money I expect Hughes to splash out that extra for the players he wants most- I'm sure with more funding he would have brought Bellamy back in a flash.

Nicko, couple of things. Firstly, when you say we need to spend big to replace Friedel, Savage and Tugay, bear in mind we only spent approx 5 million on the three of them (consider that 7.5 or so in today's market). And two of those were from Souey, who isn't as astute as Hughes. Granted they're not always available on the cheap, but Hughes has a remarkable knack for finding them when they are. The likes of Samba and Bentley (less than a million between them apparently) have the potential to be world beaters. Money would be nice though.

On which note, this 25 million...is that definitely arriving external to the club's own standard income? It's not going to be converted into club debt, or just sucked out of the TV money is it? Like others I also worry about year-on-year input too. As a consortium and a hedge fund, surely they want to come out of this with a profit.

[roversinmyblood]

The Jack Walker Trustees have done a remarkable job in supporting BRFC over the years and we are all very grateful for what Jack and then the Trust have done for us. However, they may feel that in the present climate because they cannot provide the sort of money that is needed for real success that they should let somebody else take the reins and try. Or they may not want to be committed to the long term guardianship of BRFC. Either way they look like they to want to sell. The safe option of keeping the present regime my not be possible. The big worry for myself and I am sure many Rovers fans is the change of mentality that will occur with whoever takes us over. The Trust was not interested in making a profit, "investors" are bound to be. Of the many takeovers that have happened in the Premiership so far, they all see making massive investment as being the way to get into the champions league where the big money is to be made. But only four clubs a year can achieve that!! Man. Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool are probably guaranteed three of those places so everybody else is fighting for that one remaining place. So what happens to all those clubs who have invested heavily and failed? The investors could disappear just as quickly as they arrived leaving a lot of clubs in BIG trouble. Most fans deep down fear this possibility. However, if we don't have a choice then we should embrace the future and hope that between Mark Hughes and the two Williams they continue their sensible stewardship of the club and avoid the pitfalls of the many looney chairmen currently out there.

Long live BRFC!!

[nicko]

Firstly, when you say we need to spend big to replace Friedel, Savage and Tugay, bear in mind we only spent approx 5 million on the three of them (consider that 7.5 or so in today's market). And two of those were from Souey, who isn't as astute as Hughes. Granted they're not always available on the cheap, but Hughes has a remarkable knack for finding them when they are. The likes of Samba and Bentley (less than a million between them apparently) have the potential to be world beaters. Money would be nice though.

On which note, this 25 million...is that definitely arriving external to the club's own standard income? It's not going to be converted into club debt, or just sucked out of the TV money is it? Like others I also worry about year-on-year input too. As a consortium and a hedge fund, surely they want to come out of this with a profit.

The point I was making on Friedel, Savage and Tugay is that in the future they will have to be replaced. And that will cost good money. Friedel was an absolute steal, signing a keeper of his class would cost around £6-7 million. Sav is hard to replace because he is a dying breed. Tugay is a one-off, so getting another would cost in the region of £7 to 8 million.

The £25 million is the figure that Dan Williams and his men have come up with. It will be 'guaranteed' to be spent on new players as I understand it.

Rothschilds, on behalf of the Jack Walker Trustees, want that kind of guarantee which is fair enough.

On the profit front I would reckon that you have a better chance of meking money or just balancing the books if you have success. You have to pay for that in terms of players, etc.

The way clubs make money these days is through the Premiership cash and Europe. If you spend wisely you could probably make a profit.

From what I gather profit is not the driving force here. There are some interesting ideas if it all comes off. Some are completely novel.

From what I have gathered the guy has plenty of big ideas and they don't involve running up bills or chasing a quick buck.

But, as I repeat, it's best to wait for the deal to be done or not not done before going into that kind of detail.

[nicko]

The Jack Walker Trustees have done a remarkable job in supporting BRFC over the years and we are all very grateful for what Jack and then the Trust have done for us. However, they may feel that in the present climate because they cannot provide the sort of money that is needed for real success that they should let somebody else take the reins and try. Or they may not want to be committed to the long term guardianship of BRFC. Either way they look like they to want to sell. The safe option of keeping the present regime my not be possible. The big worry for myself and I am sure many Rovers fans is the change of mentality that will occur with whoever takes us over. The Trust was not interested in making a profit, "investors" are bound to be. Of the many takeovers that have happened in the Premiership so far, they all see making massive investment as being the way to get into the champions league where the big money is to be made. But only four clubs a year can achieve that!! Man. Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool are probably guaranteed three of those places so everybody else is fighting for that one remaining place. So what happens to all those clubs who have invested heavily and failed? The investors could disappear just as quickly as they arrived leaving a lot of clubs in BIG trouble. Most fans deep down fear this possibility. However, if we don't have a choice then we should embrace the future and hope that between Mark Hughes and the two Williams they continue their sensible stewardship of the club and avoid the pitfalls of the many looney chairmen currently out there.

If there was an applause button I would press it...

[Hughesy]

The independant are today saying he is about to launch his takeover for £20 million! Where did they get that figure?

£25 million isnt that much, when you consider the extra money is worth about an extra £15m + a season anyway.

[nicko]

The independant are today saying he is about to launch his takeover for £20 million! Where did they get that figure?

£25 million isnt that much, when you consider the extra money is worth about an extra £15m + a season anyway.

The Inde used to get stories first...but that was a while back.

It's £25 million more than Rovers have just now. Or are likely to have in one go at any time in the future.

[OJRovers]

25 Million!!!! I couldn't see Sparky wanting to spend that kind of money even if it was available. I see him as a bit of a tight @#/?. That said, if he can bring in the kind of quality he has in the 1-3 million range he could probaly do quite well.

I agree - I think that Rev said that to move on to the next level we'd need to bring in some £10m+ quality players. I think that Hughes has managed to do that without paying over the odds for players - just look at MGP/Bentley/McCarthy/Roque. I'm not sure i want Rovers to be like City and buy loads of expensive players in the hope that some of them turn out good.

Where we need the extra cash is in situations like Bellamy where perhaps an extra £1m or two might've made the difference.

[rovers_rob]

Nicko, I have read that Dan Williams is a Rovers supporter, how often does he watch us play ? Do you think he will he be at the Everton game this week ?

[Ronin]

I agree - I think that Rev said that to move on to the next level we'd need to bring in some £10m+ quality players. I think that Hughes has managed to do that without paying over the odds for players - just look at MGP/Bentley/McCarthy/Roque. I'm not sure i want Rovers to be like City and buy loads of expensive players in the hope that some of them turn out good.

I reckon with both MH & JW brokering the player deals then we would have no fear about throwing the money around like West Sham or Man City, be it on players that are looking for that big payday or on expensive but unproven players. I do believe that, as has been quoted by Hughes & co, if the right player at the right price becomes available then Rovers will go in for them, and if that happens to be in the £5-10m+ region, then the potential injection of cash will be a positive factor in getting those players, and will of course enable us to compete on the next level.

Exciting times? I hope so!

[Eddie]

Not entirely sure City have thrown away money actually. They've probably spent a little bit more on each player than most would, but nothing extreme. They could all easily turn out to be pretty good value for money. As for needing 10m plus, we certainly do if we really wanted to bring in the players we need.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

With all this £25 million being talked about, I couldn't help noticing Sevilla reckon Riquelme can go for 10 million. In todays climate that is absolutley nothing. Imagine what £25 million could do for us, if spent well.

[RevidgeBlue]

Where we need the extra cash is in situations like Bellamy where perhaps an extra £1m or two might've made the difference.

Rather more than 1m, given we spent 3.3 ? m on Santa Cruz you could argue that we needed another 5m just to be in the running for Bellamy. And that's just one player.

When I say "next level" I mean more or less guaranteed UEFA Cup football season upon season with a realistic tilt at breaking into the top four from time to time.

Mark Hughes has worked miracles to get us as far as he has given the financial constraints he's had to work under but surely, over time, there are only so many rabbits you can pull out of a hat.

Plus everyone else is rapidly raising the bar as well.

[bluebruce]

The point I was making on Friedel, Savage and Tugay is that in the future they will have to be replaced. And that will cost good money. Friedel was an absolute steal, signing a keeper of his class would cost around £6-7 million. Sav is hard to replace because he is a dying breed. Tugay is a one-off, so getting another would cost in the region of £7 to 8 million.

The £25 million is the figure that Dan Williams and his men have come up with. It will be 'guaranteed' to be spent on new players as I understand it.

Rothschilds, on behalf of the Jack Walker Trustees, want that kind of guarantee which is fair enough.

On the profit front I would reckon that you have a better chance of meking money or just balancing the books if you have success. You have to pay for that in terms of players, etc.

The way clubs make money these days is through the Premiership cash and Europe. If you spend wisely you could probably make a profit.

From what I gather profit is not the driving force here. There are some interesting ideas if it all comes off. Some are completely novel.

From what I have gathered the guy has plenty of big ideas and they don't involve running up bills or chasing a quick buck.

But, as I repeat, it's best to wait for the deal to be done or not not done before going into that kind of detail.

I get all that, but my points were that Hughes DOESN'T seem to have to spend 6-8 million for players of that type, as he often gets players of that value for much less, and that whilst that money is guaranteed, I'm worried about where it comes from. It could be that initially they intended to invest about £5 million a year over five years, but now they're going to invest £25 million at once and not a drop afterwards, expecting us to fund ourselves. Or that it will draw on the club's own influx of money anyway. I think these are the kinds of fears most of us have. I understand if you're not allowed to expand on this, or don't have the info to do so.

Dan Williams probably isn't in it for profit, but I have trouble seeing (currently faceless) American businessmen throwing millions into it purely for a hoot. And although we certainly could make a profit through investment, if that money is going to get creamed off the top by fatcats instead of being put back into the club, we're no better off - and possibly worse - than if we simply borrow £25 mill from the bank to give to Hughes for players. Daniel Williams' acumen aside. I don't want to see lots of money taken out overall.

As for Riquelme, ADB, he is 29 bear in mind. Henry only went for 16 for that same reason.

[Barry]

One thing no one seems to be considering is the terms of Jack Walker`s will. Jack was passionate about Rovers and his will ensured the club continued to receive funding through the Trustees. Does anyone seriously believe that he did`nt protect the long term future of the club with conditions, via his will, relating to the possible sale of the club by the Trustees? No one knows the actual terms of his will but I for one would be amazed if he had overlooked the possibility of the club being sold. I would not be surprised if the delays in the takeover are due to the Williams consortium having to meet very stringent terms & conditions relating to the long term funding of the club. With Jack`s will not in the public domain none of us will ever know but I for one have total trust that he will have protected the long term future of the club by not allowing the Trustees to sell out to just any buyer who did`nt have the interest of Rovers at heart and/or could`nt guarantee continued long term funding.

[bluebruce]

I'm sure there are conditions, and it may well be they're the story behind the story Nicko alluded to. But even the great man can't have foreseen every eventuality...can he? There are many ways to skin a cat.

[Eddie]

I get all that, but my points were that Hughes DOESN'T seem to have to spend 6-8 million for players of that type, as he often gets players of that value for much less, and that whilst that money is guaranteed, I'm worried about where it comes from. It could be that initially they intended to invest about £5 million a year over five years, but now they're going to invest £25 million at once and not a drop afterwards, expecting us to fund ourselves. Or that it will draw on the club's own influx of money anyway. I think these are the kinds of fears most of us have. I understand if you're not allowed to expand on this, or don't have the info to do so.

Hughes needs money. We're fast approaching the time when we need replacements for Savage, Tugay and Friedel; we could hope that he could pull off some miracles, but it's unlikely. Even if we say he can pull off Benni style deals, it is probably going to be £8-10 million for the bunch, minimum, and I can't see that happening really. We don't need to say to him "go and spend 25 million", but it would be nice to say to him "the money is there if you need it" and go and find the players you think we need.