[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[Damage]

I think you couldn't be further from truth. A high percentage, if not the majority, of "foreign" rovers fans are ex-pats, if not the majority of the rest are die hard converts. Now I'm sure there are one or two out there who feel like that, but then there are probably plenty of locals, probably even some season ticket holders, who will feel the same way. Our passion for the club is just as great as anyone's and, regardless of whatever method you want to use to calculate our worth, importance or entitlement to an opinion, to me that is the most important. Everyone on here has the best interest of the club at heart and if you read back through this topic I think you would find that every single poster has expressed some sort of doubt over the topic, but a good number are willing to put some trust in the current trustees and board and realise that we will most likely eventually find ourselves in a situation where we won't be able to compete and that is not something any of us want.

As i have said before - much kudos and admiration for supporters who travel to games from foreign countries. I like that.

But sentiment counts for nothing. What the club needs is hard currency not the wishful thinking of MB junkies.

And whilst your passion may be immense, it is your pound notes over the counter that actually matters.

Could we buy John Terry with 30million MB posts?

For you passion is more important than finance because, I would hazard a guess, you dont actually contribute much to the club by way of finance?

You might say that it is only a quirk of fate that you live too far away or are chained to the desk at work or banned from going to matches by your overprotective mother - to me that is completely irrelevent in this argument. Money talks.

At present I would put my trust in the board/trustees doing what is in the best interests of shareholders - after all many people are saying we have to sell because the shareholders arent interested in BRFC any more. If thats the case why would I trust them to worry about supporters longterm interests.

[1864roverite]

Damage

give yourself a good nights rest and stop worrying.

[nicko]

I believe the £25 million 'pot' is a one-off and not an annual event.

[Damage]

Damage old chap, you sem to take things ever so seriously. My little post was in fact an attempt at humour.

I am one of those fans who you suggest that you admire from the 80's and having a ST in that era, JHC I was, among others from this board, a visitor to Ewood in the 70's as well.

I am not over illusioned by the proposed takeover and I do not harbor dreams of a 25m a year input, come on mate, seriously, we are BRFC not mankyure or mankycity.

I want whats best for Rovers, and if it means being sold then so be it. I dont hanker to the media reports and I certainly dont hanker to the pure speculation and feverism spreading throughout this board from people who ONLY think what is happening and who base their views on media speculation and feverish internet surfing in trying to out our proposed buyers.

I will only believe and accept what comes from the mouth of BRFC in the form of an official announcement.

Its about time that people realise that once Rovers make an official comment then only at THAT point can we being to speculate, criticise or praise. Thats about it in a nutshell mate.

But the problem is that many of the people on here only see the 25m figure and give no thought to other factors. I want to make sure NOW that propsective owners are under no illusions about the potential profitability of BRFC - if they think there is money to be made they are wrong and it will end in tears for us rather than them! The "lets wait and see what the club have to say" have the wrong attitude - you have to make your thoughts known NOW! When official announcements are made it is too late to start bleating about the small print. Be proactive and try to influence the outcome - too many drugged by the illusion of a never-ending transfer warchest!

[USRoverME]

Damage, I appreciate what you are tryung to say, but I hope you listen to the 2.375% of your view's worth that my views have. (2.375% is based ont he estiamted money I have spent that ended up int eh club's pocekt as opposed to your well proclaimed spending)

1) Your posts are misguided, the thread on this board, your posts, my posts, Eddie posts, etc. Have about as much chance of affecting the takeover as I have chances of winning the $300 million powerball lotto this weekend and being able to see every Rovers game played for the rest of my life.. In essence you are trying to make an arguement to the current owners and the "future owners" in a medium that I doubt they pay much attention to. By your own logic, this message board brings in nothing to the club, so why would he concern himself here? Its a openly inflammatory post and subject that is frankly, irrelevant.

2) You are skeptical of the takeover "group" and Dan Williams, thats your right, and I understand that right and that perspective. But Take a look at it from his shoes. He has an interest in buying a club, for whatever reason. He apparently has slapped in a bid. That bid hasn't been accetped yet, it might never be accepted. In that case why should he give up any of his ideas? Might someone else be able to come in with more money and his ideas and take over the club ahead of him and execute his ideas poorly. Could those ideas be of use to others interested taking over other clubs, and he wants Rovers to have the head start? Could he be trying to fleece the supporters dry and don't want them to knwo his intentions. Are any of these more or less probable reasons why no deails have been released?

3) You point out the current owner's interest. If I'm not mistake, the current owners inerests are in fact, the execution of Jack's will. I doubt very mucht aht anyone will ever know the exact wording of Jack's will, but if the trust is acting in good faith (which they appear to have been since Jack's death) doesn't it follow that they will continue to act in good faith during this process? The understanding that many of us have is that the will and the trust have clear instructions that any buyer will need to meet before a sale can happen.

4) You make comments about not just taking the first buyer. There have been comments going back three or four years that I'm aware of that the trust might be willing to sell if there was someone meeting the criteria. Something tells me a three to four year "courting process" weeded out a large number of ill-suited suitors for the title of "Rover's Owner", and that this is not a case o snapping up the quick money. After all, Even this deal have been in the works for an inordinante amount of tie already given the current phase of the deal, and its certainly not moving forward at anything close to a fast pace.

You love your club, full marks for that, but to make claims like you will pull your season ticket if there's a takeover is a right over-reaction given the situation. In my eyes, the situation is that we have a largely unknown owner who is doing his due diligence in buying a club. There's an ownership of that club doing their job, as the executors of Jack's will, and both sides are taking time to make sure that both the deal and their duties are done right. Could he meet all of the trust and/or the will's 'demands' and still fleece the supporters. It could happen. Is that a likely occurance? Apparently to your eyes, its the only possible outcome, but to my eyes, I am optimistic that a disaster will NOT be the result.

[nicko]

I couldn't be more precise about the size of the pot. I don't recall anyone being misled about an annual pay-day.

It's right to have concerns about any possible change of ownership, but just consider a couple of things.

The current regime are looking for a buyer for whatever reason - they have had enough or they realise somebody else might come in and put in some more cash.

The club has been available for a couple of years and this guy and his backers are the only ones to have come this close.

I'm not saying he is going to pull it off, he may collapse in a heap.

But if that does happen where is the money going to come from in the future?

Rovers have achieved beyond their financial means and supporter base...and that may and probably will eventually catch up on you.

[USRoverME]

Oh, and if you need a few stamps to mail a few well written letters to the board and to Dan illiams letting them know your thoughts, let me know, I'll send you the money for it, as long as that lets my view count for 2.4% of yours..... (we can ignore the fact that the postage won't go directly to the club on that one.... right?)

[Damage]

Oh, and if you need a few stamps to mail a few well written letters to the board and to Dan illiams letting them know your thoughts, let me know, I'll send you the money for it, as long as that lets my view count for 2.4% of yours..... (we can ignore the fact that the postage won't go directly to the club on that one.... right?)

come back from the dark side and you get an instant boost to 100% on the opinionometer

[rovers_rob]

I couldn't be more precise about the size of the pot. I don't recall anyone being misled about an annual pay-day.

It's right to have concerns about any possible change of ownership, but just consider a couple of things.

The current regime are looking for a buyer for whatever reason - they have had enough or they realise somebody else might come in and put in some more cash.

The club has been available for a couple of years and this guy and his backers are the only ones to have come this close.

I'm not saying he is going to pull it off, he may collapse in a heap.

But if that does happen where is the money going to come from in the future?

Rovers have achieved beyond their financial means and supporter base...and that may and probably will eventually catch up on you.

I think the fact that he wants to keep John Williams on board and his priority is to keep hold of Mark Hughes is a good thing as well. In an interview on radio lancs Hughes was asked if all this speculation is affecting him, he said that it wasn't and JW was keeping him informed of what was happening and that a deal was nearly done a few weeks back then it went quiet but intrest in the club has picked up again (or something along those lines).

I'm sure sparky is aware of how much money he would get if/when the deal is done but I wish they would get on with it so everyone can enjoy the rest of the season without all this speculation.

If DW does take over and puts 25m in the transfer kitty I am glad we have a manger as good as Hughes in charge who will spend the money on good players. If the deal doesn't go through I think Hughes will leave as soon as a big job comes up.

Nicko, if the deal is not done in the next week or so do you think it will fall through ?

[Damage]

1) Your posts are misguided, the thread on this board, your posts, my posts, Eddie posts, etc. Have about as much chance of affecting the takeover as I have chances of winning the $300 million powerball lotto this weekend and being able to see every Rovers game played for the rest of my life.. In essence you are trying to make an arguement to the current owners and the "future owners" in a medium that I doubt they pay much attention to. By your own logic, this message board brings in nothing to the club, so why would he concern himself here? Its a openly inflammatory post and subject that is frankly, irrelevant.

I think it is best to go "kicking and screaming" rather than just lie back and let it all happen. At least I can be smug if it all goes Pete Tong

2) You are skeptical of the takeover "group" and Dan Williams, thats your right, and I understand that right and that perspective. But Take a look at it from his shoes. He has an interest in buying a club, for whatever reason. He apparently has slapped in a bid. That bid hasn't been accetped yet, it might never be accepted. In that case why should he give up any of his ideas? Might someone else be able to come in with more money and his ideas and take over the club ahead of him and execute his ideas poorly. Could those ideas be of use to others interested taking over other clubs, and he wants Rovers to have the head start? Could he be trying to fleece the supporters dry and don't want them to knwo his intentions. Are any of these more or less probable reasons why no deails have been released?

I would understand if he had just designed a cyclonic vacuum cleaner but it is a football club and I fail to see what ground-breaking ideas he might have. But maybe thats down to my own myopia? Maybe he and his distressed-business management buddies have some really good ideas on how they can generate revenue but please dont ask me to take it on faith that he can do miracles. If ideas are presented then they can be judged. Maybe you can show me some really good and relevant business development ideas from DW/Plainfield history. If you can it would go some way to allaying my fears.

3) You point out the current owner's interest. If I'm not mistake, the current owners inerests are in fact, the execution of Jack's will. I doubt very mucht aht anyone will ever know the exact wording of Jack's will, but if the trust is acting in good faith (which they appear to have been since Jack's death) doesn't it follow that they will continue to act in good faith during this process? The understanding that many of us have is that the will and the trust have clear instructions that any buyer will need to meet before a sale can happen.

I really hope that is the case but whilst there is even a slight chance that reality might not meet that standard I will make my opinions known. From history I am reminded of the Victorian philanthropists who bequeathed recreational spaces for the enjoyment of the local populace. In law these spaces are now owned by local government ("democratically" elected by the local populace so = local populace, even if only 25% people vote in local elections!!) and in some cases are being put to uses that would have the original benefactor doing the proverbial grave-turning. Instructions may be clear but they can never cater for all occasions - im sure there are many holes and blindspots. Just hope that the spirit is upheld.

4) You make comments about not just taking the first buyer. There have been comments going back three or four years that I'm aware of that the trust might be willing to sell if there was someone meeting the criteria. Something tells me a three to four year "courting process" weeded out a large number of ill-suited suitors for the title of "Rover's Owner", and that this is not a case o snapping up the quick money. After all, Even this deal have been in the works for an inordinante amount of tie already given the current phase of the deal, and its certainly not moving forward at anything close to a fast pace.

That is a fair point that I hadnt really considered.

You love your club, full marks for that, but to make claims like you will pull your season ticket if there's a takeover is a right over-reaction given the situation.

To clarify - I would pull my ST if I believe they are profiteering.

[nicko]

Nicko, if the deal is not done in the next week or so do you think it will fall through ?

That's a good question...

[Hasta]

Yes you're interpretation is correct Hasta.

At 3:20 in the morning after several drinks I did have something of a rant and for the most part I will admit that my spleen was being vented against people who are supportive of the takeover. At the time it seemed to me that many/most of those in favour were dreaming of the £25M - about what players could be bought with that money but without any consideration of whether the numbers were accurate or what longer term consequences might be. It also appeared to me that the people most in favour are the ones who dont actually live local or attend matches - Im thinking that if you live abroad as a rovers fan surrounded by lots of big4 fans maybe its hard to be a rover and £25m would be good to stuff it over the big boys for once! Dont worry about the consequences because .... well I can also go back to the nfl or gaelic football or aussie rules!

Maybe that analysis is somewhat flawed but at the time it was how I felt and probably still do to an extent. I live in Blackburn and have no real need to worry about if its fashionable to support BRFC. There are many of us around here so I dont need a "glitz injection" to make me walk tall when Im in the shopping mall or the local bar - im already proud of my club. They dont have to sign carlos tevez to make me prouder!

As you can tell this isnt a well thought out argument just my feelings. What I have thought about today is how I can counter the baseless positive spin that has been acquired by the DW/Plainfield takeover on this MB. I make no apologies for this and if I can influence the dabate in any way I will view that as success.

Fair enough.

When I got home from work tonight I re-read the thread from when you first posted yesterday and actually agree with a lot of your concerns. I then thought "why was i so annoyed at his original points", which is why I re-read and then re-quoted you. If you take away your seeming attack on non ST holders then your loyalties and concenrs are noted even if you do seem to be far more doom and gloom than most doubters.

BTW. Try not to post whilst very drunk. We've all done it and it's not good!

[Driftpeasant]

For the record, too, we give what we can, mate.

Heck, look up at the pinned topics and note that some Americans and some Aussies and even some Lancastrians bought 6 season tickets for charity. We give what we can, you know? Sadly, not all of us are Uncle Jack.

[dave birch]

Damage, as I"ve said before I take your point about the takeover, I don't about the "overseas" fans.

You talk about giving it all away if people are seen to be profiteering. On that basis, you should have given it away years ago, because there's been plenty of money been extracted from the club for the last 40 years. Further, had you read up on the history of the Rovers before becoming a supporter, you'd never have started, having knowledge of the 1960 debacle. A fair bit of profiteering then!

Back to driftpeasants observation on those that gave for the charity tickets. Where do they stand in your opinion meter? By my reckoning they push you down the line. Why?, because they have given something to the Rovers without receiving any benefit, plus, they've given the opportunity for someone to become a future paying Rovers supporter by being able to attend when present circumstances would normally have prevented them.

One last thing, you haven't told us what your alternative to this takeover would be, given that the trust cannot (and will not) go on for ever? I'd be interested to hear your views.

[RevidgeBlue]

The takeover will happen and Rovers WILL be better off, its as simple as that.

"A" takeover of the club will probably occur at some point which will hopefully move us on to the proverbial "next level" financially.

That might even be necessary just to keep us where we are the way things are curently going.

However I think it's somewhat premature to suggest this particular expression of interest will come to fruition.

A poster on here (Damage probably) was roundly criticised a couple of months ago for saying "Show us the Money"

Given what's happened and the limited information that has come to light since, I retain a similar degree of scepticism until we see the colour of their money - i.e. an official bid is made.

Once again, that's no reflection at all on Nicko who's simply passing on what he's been told and we're all the better for it.

[Damage]

For the record, too, we give what we can, mate.

Heck, look up at the pinned topics and note that some Americans and some Aussies and even some Lancastrians bought 6 season tickets for charity. We give what we can, you know? Sadly, not all of us are Uncle Jack.

There is no argument - those people are worth ten of me! And i say that without any sarcasm for those who may read anything other than truth in my commenst.

In terms opf my potentriometer it is still only wortyh 600%.

In terms of marketing value m,aybe it is worth severeal times that - I certainly admire that contribution. Innfact as a "hard-nosed cycnic" I would probably even suggest that the benefactors are "mental". LONG LIVE MENTAL!

Last night we had charity workers knocking trying to sign up people to direct debit to "save the children"!. People do .... on the basis of a few horrible pictures, and trhink they can change the world. Forget about the rights and wrongs of that but maybe if people who cant get to matches wish to demonstrate their committment by ways of a regular contribution (maybe just £10 per month) then I will be really impressed.

I know that is probably silly but it really is how the money men see the world!

[Eddie]

Forget about the rights and wrongs of that but maybe if people who cant get to matches wish to demonstrate their committment by ways of a regular contribution (maybe just £10 per month) then I will be really impressed.

Maybe that's something the club could look into. Why not start some sort of overseas club where you paid a certain amount a month and in return you were given a rovers world subscription and then a discount on any match tickets you then bought? Maybe even give them more of a priority (not than season ticket holders, simply compared to normal people) for high profile games). Obviously this amount would have to be higher than the current price of rovers world and they might have to set a limit on the number of times you could claim a discounted ticket and some means of checking that you actually live abroad or else the system could be abused, but it could be a good idea.

That money could then be used to fund more charity tickets or simply as an extra source of income for the club.

[Damage]

No comment for 12 hours!?

Maybe with such indiference we desreve everything we get?

[dave birch]

One last thing, you haven't told us what your alternative to this takeover would be, given that the trust cannot (and will not) go on for ever? I'd be interested to hear your views.

OK Damage, I'll respond.

I'm still waiting to see what your alternative is?

I too have concerns about the takeover, but to be honest, I don't see anyone else waiting to throw money at Blackburn Rovers.

It wouldn't surprise me for Williams D to have some plan to develop Ewood. Quite how, I don't know, but at this point in time it's the only thing I can put a handle on as to why someone would want to buy the Rovers.

[thenodrog]

Forget about the rights and wrongs of that but maybe if people who cant get to matches wish to demonstrate their committment by ways of a regular contribution (maybe just £10 per month) then I will be really impressed.

I suggested the same a couple of years ago Damage. Got well dissed for my trouble to I can tell you. Unfortunately the majority of our exiles took great exception to my suggestion that they use some of their ill-gotten to help fund the club that they profess to love so much. Apparently they have wives, families and mortgages etc that come first! Like who hasn't? (In fairness though I understand that one or two did actually buy a shirt with McKewans on the front once.)

So they just keep logging on here to show their faith and undying support. I wonder how many even sent a few bob for this site when the board Admin requested some voluntary funding?

[Eddie]

Did you read what I post theno? I can understand people not wanting to give away something for nothing, but with a little in return you might see a lot of people do it (or if they see it is going towards something specific).

[thenodrog]

I can understand people not wanting to give away something for nothing, but with a little in return you might see a lot of people do it (or if they see it is going towards something specific).

Needless to say I'm not holding my breath eddie.

[Fife Rover]

Did you read what I post theno? I can understand people not wanting to give away something for nothing, but with a little in return you might see a lot of people do it (or if they see it is going towards something specific).

I would definitely be up for your idea Eddie; providing of course that Scotland can be counted as "abroad".

As I have said before several times, I would be a much more regular attender as I was until 2 years ago, but for the costs involved and the problems I now have with travelling long distance (health reasons). In fact from my retiring date in July 1999 to early in 2002, I had a second home in Poulton near Blackpool and was able to see the vast majority of Rovers home matches. I have since then averaged around 8 games a season until 2 years ago when my average has dropped to 3.5 (4 + 3 =7. 7/2 = 3.5).

[Ste B]

No comment for 12 hours!?

Maybe with such indiference we desreve everything we get?

I dont think its down to indifference, but more a case of how can people make up their minds about whats happening when the only things we know is what Nickos been posting.

As Dave Birch has just said, I cant see what the attraction of buying Rovers will be, unless DanW has some real fancy plans. Either way for their plan to work, Rovers have to be succesful on and off the pitch which is good for us.

[dave birch]

I suggested the same a couple of years ago Damage. Got well dissed for my trouble to I can tell you. Unfortunately the majority of our exiles took great exception to my suggestion that they use some of their ill-gotten to help fund the club that they profess to love so much. Apparently they have wives, families and mortgages etc that come first! Like who hasn't? (In fairness though I understand that one or two did actually buy a shirt with McKewans on the front once.)

So they just keep logging on here to show their faith and undying support. I wonder how many even sent a few bob for this site when the board Admin requested some voluntary funding?

It's comments like this that really give me the ######.

Take a couple of bits out of his stupid rant:

"ill gotten", Are you inferring that any money I, or any other foreign based fan, might earn is done so by illegal means? If so, you could well be on the wrong end of a lawsuit, despite living in another country. I'd strongly suggest that you make a suitable apology.

As for "wondering how many sent a few bob...", why make that statement, when all you needed to do was to ask Lee Grooby. Use the grey matter under that ginger nut, lad.

I put it down to the fact that you're a ginger tawt, who can't get over the fact that you don't have it all your own way.

Theno, you are one of those people that have lots to say and nothing to offer. A typical DAIS NAID.

Mods, please feel free to edit if general offence is made.