[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[RevidgeBlue]

There are some very good posts in here. I'm not sure if I am for or against outside investment at Ewood. My basic fear, and what I believe will happen in the future, is clubs will collapse as the rich man finds another plaything and moves on. These foreign investors have absolutely no interest in English football, they have no connection whatsoever and see you and me as nothing more than a consumer waiting to be milked.

There are only two reasons for the current outside investment in English football - profit and challenge. The profit motive is obvious and the "challenge" is simple. These men are already enormously successful, they need a challenge, an interest. At best the investment wll last while the owner is alive but more probably only till he finds another plaything.

Can anyone provide any other reason as to why Paul Allen should wish to buy Southampton? I very much doubt it. He has already been quoted as stating "the population, the potential brand and the property ownership" make Southampton very attractive.

Without outside investment Rovers will find it increasingly difficult to compete, with it we face many hidden dangers.

Does anyone on here believe we, or any smaller club for that matter, will be "allowed" to win the Premier League again? This is the reality we are looking at. Those who have already purchased clubs, especially the big four, will perceive the threat to their power, income and profit from investors in the likes of Villa, City etc. How will Utd, Chelsea, etc react - just watch. Buy the best, pay the best eliminate the risk.

I know my views in these areas are not popular but just think about it. You buy a club for £800 million, are you going to let some Johnny come lately threaten your position? Of course not. This money simply ramps up the stakes for transfers and wages.

Sport? Level playing field? Equal opportunity to win? Ha! I'm sure Messrs Abramovic and Glazier have trouble sleeping at night.

Interesting points Paul, I hadn't really considered it in such stark terms before.

There is of course only so much a mega rich owner can do to ensure success - at the end of the day it still comes down to eleven men on the pitch with a ball (and maybe a subconsciously heavily influenced ref ) although they can obviously make their position as safe as possible.

The danger for Rovers I feel comes not from the "big 4" but if we can no longer compete with the other sixteen Premiership clubs for the better players due solely to their larger turnover and/or them being taken over by wealthy new owners.

We're part way down that road already as Sparky has had to wheel and deal within his existing squad over the last three seasons and has seemingly had no net funding available for incoming transfers. The saving grace is that the Premiership is in such an overwhelmingly strong position in comparison to other Leagues that there must be an abundance of good quality untapped foreign talent, all eager for a regular starting place in the Premiership and the handsome rewards that go with it.

It's a tricky one but on balance I feel we need to attract new investment in the long term if we're to continue to challenge in the 5th -10th bracket and mount a serious challenge for a Cup or two.

Whilst I want us to have decent seasons, it doesn't actually bother me that we're not going to win the title again in the forseeable future. Sixth in the top flight would have looked pretty good when we were near the bottom of the old 3rd division 35 years ago and I think it's a bit churlish to be upset because we can't do better than that.

My final point would be that I can't see any theoretical objection to a new owner coming in with the intention of making profit: that is only going to happen if the club is successful on the pitch and commercially. And if their intention was to "milk" the club - well they couldn't really do a better job than the players have done with their exorbitant wages! I can't see much difference.

[dave birch]

It's always been a business.

Sorry, It hasn't.

It's been about locality, It's been about competition between towns. It's been sport, for sports sake, nothing to do with making obscene amounts of money.

It has been an English game, without US money. It been truly sporting, until recently.

I tried today to explain to my Manure supporting mate about it. He was unconcerned about the divide that is happening in English football, all he was concerned about was Manure winning whatever they could and of Chelsea's draw. This mate tried to explain that AC Milan were a great football team. No doubt they are, but the organisation they were in were cheats, as were that other great Italian team Juventus.

Is this what we want for our game?

The money in today's game will bring the demise of this wonderful game that we love so much.

[RevidgeBlue]

You think you are being facetious in your statement above. I absolutely agree with you! You speak the LITERAL TRUTH.

An UTTER DISASTER, which exactly describes the whole sorry business that is the very idea of PREMIER LEAGUE football.

In this country there are quite literally millions of football fans that have seen and loved football with all it's up's and down's over their lifetime. And the new idea of "Hey heres a product that will make us all very rich" or alternatively "let's soak these stupid B****s for their last £/$" can go to hell for me and many, many more long term football fans that have seen through the scam. Unfortunately the younger fans don't have the memory of better times to fall back on and therefore are far more easily duped.

Maybe I'm in the minority then but I don't agree with that at all Fife, I think the Premier League is a much better product than watching "real" football as you call it like Accy Stanley, East Fife or Cowdenbeath.

From Rovers point of view whilst we always tend to look back on memories of yesteryear through rose tinted glasses the product is also much better now than it was twenty or thirty years ago.

Our problem is that having reached the heady heights of sixth out of ninety two of the professional League clubs we're always going to find it hard to go any higher. That would be the case whether it was the old first division or Premier League.

[USABlue]

Its simple, the American investment into the Worlds finest professional league is a strategic move to dismantle a game that is bigger than any game the yanks have. They can't handle being second. Just kidding folks.

[Alan75]

The money in today's game will bring the demise of this wonderful game that we love so much.

I fear that the process has already began.

Agents, managers, brown envelopes.

Referees favouring wealthier clubs ! not that I would suggest anything untowards has happened !!!!

Sponsorship of referees ? how can they be impartial when a stadium is named after the badge on their arm.

Players being paid more in a week that the working man can in a lifetime causes resentment.

Middle East betting.

As for betting, the bloke who sits next to me had £2 on Rovers to win at 40/1 yesterday.

Boy was he sweating towards the end of the game.

[American]

Sorry, It hasn't.

It's been about locality, It's been about competition between towns. It's been sport, for sports sake, nothing to do with making obscene amounts of money.

It has been an English game, without US money. It been truly sporting, until recently.

I tried today to explain to my Manure supporting mate about it. He was unconcerned about the divide that is happening in English football, all he was concerned about was Manure winning whatever they could and of Chelsea's draw. This mate tried to explain that AC Milan were a great football team. No doubt they are, but the organisation they were in were cheats, as were that other great Italian team Juventus.

Is this what we want for our game?

The money in today's game will bring the demise of this wonderful game that we love so much.

Disagree. If it were about locality, they wouldn't have charged for tickets. It hasn't been sporting for scores now (using the multiple, that would be minimum 40 years). There was more local pride involved, but it was still a business. Business grow. There are lots of companies that started as a local business and have grown. Again, if you want local pride, have fun watching conference football.

[dave birch]

Maybe I'm in the minority then but I don't agree with that at all Fife, I think the Premier League is a much better product than watching "real" football as you call it like Accy Stanley, East Fife or Cowdenbeath.

Rev, whilst taking your point about League football, just what has English football brought to the International stage over the last 40 years?

The premier league has done zilch to enhance the international game other than to make player more wealthy.

I know what Fife is on about, it's about the passion, the committment, the love of the game, without the desire to earn megabucks.

[dave birch]

Disagree. If it were about locality, they wouldn't have charged for tickets. It hasn't been sporting for scores now (using the multiple, that would be minimum 40 years). There was more local pride involved, but it was still a business. Business grow. There are lots of companies that started as a local business and have grown. Again, if you want local pride, have fun watching conference football.

Sorry, but you don't know the game.

40 years ago the game was one of local pride. One of players being loyal. Being happy with playing for their local team. That's why a lot of people on here really want Dunny to do well at the Rovers, he's local, it means something. It means something to the fans for a player to be loaned out to Bumley.

Everyone realises that it costs to run the club, and people will pay to support their club, but when the charges become obscene, then people will draw the line, as they have done over the last few years.

[Fife Rover]

Fear of change Rev. I think also when you take the actual logistics out of the equation what is going on with these big investors and why people don't fancy it is it further erodes the game as we all knew as young uns. It's another way of killing what football was all about. Inexpensive entertainment for the working masses. Many of us still, unbelievably I am sure, still relate to that. Saturday afternoon, few pints, the match for many of us it was our ONLY outlet. We loved the game for it's beautiful simplicity, sportsmanship and exciting action. We have for many years been losing the very sport we have kept alive through two World Wars and many many very hard economic times.

Our own club the famous, but irritatingly small for the media, Blackburn Rovers to many of us is still a throwback to when the game was a game, the last bastion if you will of a simpler time. For some the sale of the club to outside investors signals the very end of the "hometown club" feel. I for one totally love the fact that 'lil old BRFC from a town with a population not too much bigger than the "Real Wembleys" capacity can still do what we are doing and still claim to be somewhat pure, course we kid ourselves, but it is not too unrealistic to still feel that connect. Well I've prattled on enough but I hope you follow what I am getting at. In a snippet I think we want our cake and eat it too.

You have hit the nail right on the head there USABlue! That is exactly the feeling that some of us older fans have. And you can bet your last penny on it, that the same thinking applies amongst the older fans of virtually every club in the PL and FL as well. Yes even Man U and Chelski too! Football fans of a certain age do see the glorious game as you have described so well. It was (and for me still should be) a perfect way to spend a Saturday afternoon and to get rid of all your frustrations and pent-up feelings from the long hard week at work. It was very cheap and affordable to all, and was a fantastic outlet for your emotions and very entertaining as well. We all used to look forward all through the week at work to getting down to Ewood (or wherever) and letting the hair down as well as meeting up with mates and fellow footie fans. Fabulous and virtually undescribable feelings!

That is why I still see the likes of Rovers in their present form, and other smaller unspoilt clubs such as Dunfermline, East Fife, Cowdenbeath, Accy Stanley etc, etc as havens of blessed release where proper football is still played and enjoyed by the enlightened few. Long may it continue as the rest of so called big-time football carries on down the path to self -destruction.

Make no mistake; that is exactly where it is headed! Once the "get rich (or richer)" merchants have taken the game to it's ultimate milkable limit, they will ALL bale out and move on to find some other mugs to fleece in a different sphere of activity.

But, hopefully, the little clubs will still be plodding on with their small gates and grass roots football, and maybe, (just maybe) the whole cycle will start again and there will be another hundred plus years of Heaven for the working class before memories again grow dim and the whole sorry cycle will repeat itself (probably ad infinitum).

[USABlue]

I fear that the process has already began.

Agents, managers, brown envelopes.

Referees favouring wealthier clubs ! not that I would suggest anything untowards has happened !!!!

Sponsorship of referees ? how can they be impartial when a stadium is named after the badge on their arm.

Players being paid more in a week that the working man can in a lifetime causes resentment.

Middle East betting.

As for betting, the bloke who sits next to me had £2 on Rovers to win at 40/1 yesterday.

Boy was he sweating towards the end of the game.

Said it then will say it again, agents were the beginning of the end.

[Claytons Left Boot]

If every club in the Premer League is eventually bought by a wealthy backer, consortium or whoever, nothing really will change. It stands to reason that the more wealthy backers will choose the clubs offering either the bigger returns or greater potential.

The pecking order has been established for a number of years now and the big four are established. One or two clubs like Newcastle, Villa or say Spurs could threaten the monopoly of the big four but it is unlikely they would oust them completely. The outcome would be a 'big four,' the 'next three or four' and then 'the rest.' A three tier league instead of a two tier one.

With all clubs being backed, those clubs promoted from the Championship would find it even harder to maintain top flight status, unless they too find investors at the right time. Thus clubs like Rovers, Bolton and Fulham etc would have to do something very wrong to get relegated and it would make the PL like a closed shop.

Gone are the days when someone like Jack Walker could come along with that level of funding and seize a window of opportunity to give a 'smaller' club such success. The pecking order is there, more or less fixed in stone and there is not a lot that any other club can do about it, investment or no investment.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I must agree with the sentiments from our American correspondents. The profit motive is viewed differently over here than seems to be the case back in good old Lanky. Making profits does not mean that the club will be bled dry. Any businessman who could afford to buy Rovers (or any other EPL club) does not need the paltry amounts that could be squeezed out from the existing turnover, nor would be foolish enough to reduce the selling on value of the club. Owners will profit the most if the club prospers.

The days when owners would either be local magnates with cash burning a hole in their pockets, or local crooks planning to burn down the main stand are long gone. Jack was the last, and richest, of a long line of the former - no different to William Bancroft or Bob Lord. There isn't another waiting in the wings. The misty-eyed sentimentality to t'good old days is just that. Players weren't loyal, they were virtual prisoners. They weren't very local either; for every Duggy there were five Ally Macleod's or Derek Dougan's.

EPL clubs are a sound investment at the moment precisely because they are EPL clubs. The global viewing rights will probably continue to spiral upwards exponentially because EPL is the best TV football product. It has nothing to do with local fan base. The Toronto Blue Jays get a lower average crown than do the Rovers and you can get a ticket for less than five quid, yet they still generate a good profit for the owner (who invests in the team) and have probably appreciated in value from the price he paid for them.

Didn't we rise to fame originally by being at the forefront of dramatic shifts in the game, employing Scottish professionals? Didn't they take the places in our team of good old local millhands? Scandalous! The game is changing again and we have an opportunity not afforded to our friends up the M65 to write a new chapter in our illustrious history. To stay thinking local when the league we play in is now global would be a huge mistake. If you can relate to having two players on the pitch yesterday from the Congo, I fail to see why having an owner from more than a five mile radius from the Boulevard is such a drama.

[philipl]

Very good post EiT.

Incidentally, all the indications are that the distribution of money by the EPL to EPL clubs will be more equally divided when the clubs make the decision. That could well make a mid-market EPL club like Rovers which has a squad and set up which looks at present to be comfortably distant from relegation to be a good prospect to buy into.

Getting a share of the global market is going to be a continuing issue for the Rovers.

Two examples- the "perfect market" that is less than legal free internet TV coverage sees the Rovers not being covered most of the time.

- the Time Magazine article I linked to above and this new CNN football web site launched today both fail to mention the Rovers by name.

PS for those recent posters puzzling why Americans are buying into the EPL, look at the Telegraph link I posted.

[American]

The misty-eyed sentimentality to t'good old days is just that. Players weren't loyal, they were virtual prisoners. They weren't very local either; for every Duggy there were five Ally Macleod's or Derek Dougan's.

Exactly the point I was about to make. Just because the players stayed with their club doesn't mean they wanted to. I'm sure they were quite happy having to work second jobs while the owners held down their salaries so they could make a bigger profit. I'm sure when they had career ending injuries, they were kept on at the same pay, or helped out by insurance paid for by the company (and I'm not talking about when they gave a player a PR type job - I'm sure they were making more from the players PR than the player was from having the job).

Baseball was the same way here until Curt Flood (our Bosman). Players used to go into the owners' office and be told "This is what we are paying you next season. If you don't like it, find another career. We have another 10 players who would love to have your job."

It is a business, but a big reason it's a different business now is that the employees have the same opportunities that the rest of us have for career advancement.

Don't confuse servitude with loyalty.

[Fife Rover]

Interesting points Paul, I hadn't really considered it in such stark terms before.

There is of course only so much a mega rich owner can do to ensure success - at the end of the day it still comes down to eleven men on the pitch with a ball (and maybe a subconsciously heavily influenced ref ) although they can obviously make their position as safe as possible.

The danger for Rovers I feel comes not from the "big 4" but if we can no longer compete with the other sixteen Premiership clubs for the better players due solely to their larger turnover and/or them being taken over by wealthy new owners.

We're part way down that road already as Sparky has had to wheel and deal within his existing squad over the last three seasons and has seemingly had no net funding available for incoming transfers. The saving grace is that the Premiership is in such an overwhelmingly strong position in comparison to other Leagues that there must be an abundance of good quality untapped foreign talent, all eager for a regular starting place in the Premiership and the handsome rewards that go with it.

It's a tricky one but on balance I feel we need to attract new investment in the long term if we're to continue to challenge in the 5th -10th bracket and mount a serious challenge for a Cup or two.

Whilst I want us to have decent seasons, it doesn't actually bother me that we're not going to win the title again in the forseeable future. Sixth in the top flight would have looked pretty good when we were near the bottom of the old 3rd division 35 years ago and I think it's a bit churlish to be upset because we can't do better than that.

My final point would be that I can't see any theoretical objection to a new owner coming in with the intention of making profit: that is only going to happen if the club is successful on the pitch and commercially. And if their intention was to "milk" the club - well they couldn't really do a better job than the players have done with their exorbitant wages! I can't see much difference.

I don't disagree with any of that Rev. I guess my "problem" lies in the very long and only too clear memories I have of far better times for the fan on the terrace. Better football in terms of entertainment and excitement, and infinitely better value for money in terms of the admission price. But most of all the thing that really has turned me off todays game is the complete lack of fair competition. The only clubs that are ever again going to win the PL title are the super rich clubs; some of whose fans had the effrontery to accuse Rovers of buying the title in 1995!

I also fear that if we see more and more takeovers by super rich individuals, we could easily finish up in a situation similar to the Italian Serie A scandal. Which is why I highlighted Rev's 2nd paragraph.

[den]

I would have no problems with the right man coming in. For him to be the right man though, he would have to be able to choose the right manager. All the money in the world is useless without the right guy to spend it.

[gumboots]

Hopefully the right man coming in would do nothing at all about the manager other than back him to the hilt as we currently have exactly the right manager for our club, and he certainly deserves the chance to build with better players.

[stuwilky]

Maybe I'm in the minority then but I don't agree with that at all Fife, I think the Premier League is a much better product than watching "real" football as you call it like Accy Stanley, East Fife or Cowdenbeath.

From Rovers point of view whilst we always tend to look back on memories of yesteryear through rose tinted glasses the product is also much better now than it was twenty or thirty years ago.

Our problem is that having reached the heady heights of sixth out of ninety two of the professional League clubs we're always going to find it hard to go any higher. That would be the case whether it was the old first division or Premier League.

Come to the Tameside Stadium in Ashton under Lyme n Thursday Rev - North West Counties Cup Final. FC United v Curzon Ashton. Damn good product, cheap as chips (£7) signing, dancing, standing, more noise than I'll hear at Ewood ever again.

then tell me the "product" is superior. Football isnt just about the on the pitch experience. May this is why Ive started enjoying non league football much more than Premiership this last season.

[Fife Rover]

Come to the Tameside Stadium in Ashton under Lyme n Thursday Rev - North West Counties Cup Final. FC United v Curzon Ashton. Damn good product, cheap as chips (£7) signing, dancing, standing, more noise than I'll hear at Ewood ever again.

then tell me the "product" is superior. Football isnt just about the on the pitch experience. May this is why Ive started enjoying non league football much more than Premiership this last season.

Precisely Stu. The trouble is you just can't convince people of this until they actually try watching the lower leagues on a regular basis. I am not saying the qualityof football is anything like as good as the Prem or the skill of the players either (obviously). But the thing that makes it so refreshing and entertaining for me is the honest endeavour of all concerned; players, officials and supporters. Also there is no hype and the cost is minimal. All in all you come away satisfied and feeling like you have seen a genuine competition.

[MarkBRFC]

Come to the Tameside Stadium in Ashton under Lyme n Thursday Rev - North West Counties Cup Final. FC United v Curzon Ashton. Damn good product, cheap as chips (£7) signing, dancing, standing, more noise than I'll hear at Ewood ever again.

then tell me the "product" is superior. Football isnt just about the on the pitch experience. May this is why Ive started enjoying non league football much more than Premiership this last season.

I went to the first leg of the North West Counties Cup Semi-Final between Congleton Town & FC United, and agree the atmosphere was great and i really enjoyed it the game, Town fighting back from 2 down to secure a 2-2 draw.

I dont think i would swap it for watching Rovers in the premier league though

[SamTheShrew]

you can't beat non-league football for a bit of banter. My local team Stafford Rangers avoided the drop to the conference by one point yesterday and are now the only part-time team in the conference! heres to another season in the conference.

also heres an anecote for you: once a guy standing on the sidelines next to me handed his mate his cup of tea/bovril, took off all his clothes and then streaked for a full 5 minutes much to the crowds entertainment whilst the game carried on around him. He then preceded to go back to where he had been standing, put his clothes back on and carried on drinking his tea/bovril whilst watching the remainder of the game!

priceless moments you can only get at local football

[Paul Mellelieu]

I hope that noone would want FC United to win anything.

[jim mk2]

just what has English football brought to the International stage over the last 40 years?

The premier league has done zilch to enhance the international game other than to make player more wealthy.

Just spotted the above load of crap.

Apart from its clubs having the most successful record in terms of trophies won in European club football, providing some of the most outstanding club teams to grace the game, helping to develop and providing the stage for some of the world's best players, and offering a product that is watched by hundreds of million all over the glode, the most popular league in the world's most popular sport, English football is not up to much really.

I would endorse the view of those who enjoy the non-league game. Just because the game is played at a slower pace and the players are less skilled, does not mean it is not an entertaining spectacle.

[Manchester Blue]

I hope that noone would want FC United to win anything.

Why not?

[stuwilky]

Im working at their cup final on Thursday night at Ashton, estimated crowd of 3500 for a match at Step 5, midweek.....