[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[RevidgeBlue]

I am personally past caring.

I've defended you to the hilt over the last few months so there's no need to take your bat and ball home because it looks like the deal isn't going through!

As I've said all along its your job to report the stories and it's no reflection on you if anyone in question doesn't turn out to be all they seem.

Now then, do these other bidders exist, and if so, who are they?

P.S. We do all care which is why we're raising all these questions.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Now then, do these other bidders exist, and if so, who are they?

Sounds to me like they don't exist - BRFC perhaps bigging up a bit of interest from elsewhere to get the price up - and DW responding with a large hint of an imminent collapse of the deal and then a 'what's the rush?' ie he doesn't believe there's any other bidders.

[nicko]

Let me clarify.

Dan Williams's name and plans only came into the public domain because I hunted him down. As a result of that I possibly wrecked the deal.

Also as a result of that he has had his name and other details plastered about by amateur detectives.

When I called him last Thursday to check about the state of play - as nothing had moved since the August 31 deadline - the man was genuinely distressed that he had run into a snag with his own businesses and the time it would take to run all of them.

We discussed two options of ways round it. But by the end of it I felt that his problem was unsurmoutable. That is why I said it was on the verge of collapse.

Because the man is genuine and wants to put a deal together he is clearly not giving up in a rush. He is trying to find a solution and may succeed.

I know several other factors about this that are going to remain confidential just now - until it is totally resolved one way or another.

In the meantime I wish the guy every success in his attempt to get over his latest hurdle.

And that is as a neutral.

Sadly, some fans seem to want to run him down because he has an expanding business empire.

How do you think people become millionaires in the first place? And how do they stay on top of their game? By working, doing deals, travelling the world.

He wants to run your club and do a good job of it. He could have 'done one' some time back but didn't.

Jack Walker was in his later years when he had the cash and the time to take over at Rovers. This guy is about half of his age and trying.

Give him a break.

[USABlue]

ANYONE ELSE BORED CRAPLESS ABOUT THE WHOLE SAGA??

its a case of DW buck up or buck off

Have been for a looooong time now. I just pop in here once in a blue moon just to see if anything is actually happening. I'll just ignore this thread now until I see or hear something on this issue, something with some substance.

[modes98]

Things like this take time though, unless you are mega rich and really don't mind about price, etc.

[OscarRaven]

Dan Williams's name and plans only came into the public domain because I hunted him down. As a result of that I possibly wrecked the deal.

I think your overstating your own importance there. No offence but if he's serious about splashing 10's of millions on a premier league club then people knowing his name shouldn't really spook him.

Everything about this guy say's amateur, clearly in the developing world he has a bit of business, but he isn't media savvy or even sure about what he is buying. The fact after many months he still hasn't entered into due diligence suggests to me this guy is a time waster and doesn't really know what he's 'trying' to buy into.

Do we want someone like this running the club? I don't.

[Boz]

As in any business deal, secrecy and confidentiality are paramount. With rules and laws in place to protect investors in public and private companies. However any business person worth there salt would appreciate that when attempting to take over a football club, there are thousands of others whose hearts and minds must be won over too. So it is with no surprise that fans would take an interest and as such participate in these forums. Any criticism, positive or negative comes with the territory and so I would suggest that if Dan Williams is a little perturbed by one or two posting from genuine Rovers supporters, he needs to get real. Let’s face facts, we know very little about this guy and little about his intentions for our club. If it came down to trusting one side or the other then I know who I would back. The ownership of BRFC is like no other club and specifically set up in this manner in order to protect what Jack and so many others of similar ilk hold close to there hearts. If the trustees have placed one or two hurdles over and above than what might normally be expected, then so be it and if Dan Williams is the ultimate new owner of BRFC he will appreciate and understand why this is so.

As a mere observation I would expect a businessman such as Dan Williams to appoint a PR man in order calm the waters so to speak, to placate the fans on forums etc.., to explain to them how a thoroughly decent bloke he is. Possibly drop him a few £000s with a win bonus?

Following on, I must say how entertaining I have found “Nicko’s Thread” throughout the close season. A real treat to have a journalist giving their slant on the various gossip of comings and goings. A credible top rate journalist would in my opinion be independent, whereby all their monies are earned through their journalistic endeavours and wouldn’t be involved in associated business dealings. Or if in actual fact they did have an interest, they would disclose their interest at the outset. For example, if one had a business interest in an agency that would financially benefit from an action that occurred, they would disclose this.

I may be way off the mark and I do acknowledge that journalists have to cultivate relationships in order to obtain an exclusive story, but given that there are journalists out there where it is has been shown that they might also be out for financial gain, I wondered if perhaps this might also be the case here? Apologises if this is not so, but I like all other passionate BRFC supporters on here would appreciate to know this, in order that we might make our own opinions on the source of information and its relevance to our club.

[nicko]

I think your overstating your own importance there. No offence but if he's serious about splashing 10's of millions on a premier league club then people knowing his name shouldn't really spook him.

Everything about this guy say's amateur, clearly in the developing world he has a bit of business, but he isn't media savvy or even sure about what he is buying. The fact after many months he still hasn't entered into due diligence suggests to me this guy is a time waster and doesn't really know what he's 'trying' to buy into.

Do we want someone like this running the club? I don't.

It was one of his backers who did not like to see their name in the papers...check back to verify that.

And if I'm his PR man can you ask him to send the cash soon.

[nicko]

As in any business deal, secrecy and confidentiality are paramount. With rules and laws in place to protect investors in public and private companies. However any business person worth there salt would appreciate that when attempting to take over a football club, there are thousands of others whose hearts and minds must be won over too. So it is with no surprise that fans would take an interest and as such participate in these forums. Any criticism, positive or negative comes with the territory and so I would suggest that if Dan Williams is a little perturbed by one or two posting from genuine Rovers supporters, he needs to get real. Let’s face facts, we know very little about this guy and little about his intentions for our club. If it came down to trusting one side or the other then I know who I would back. The ownership of BRFC is like no other club and specifically set up in this manner in order to protect what Jack and so many others of similar ilk hold close to there hearts. If the trustees have placed one or two hurdles over and above than what might normally be expected, then so be it and if Dan Williams is the ultimate new owner of BRFC he will appreciate and understand why this is so.

As a mere observation I would expect a businessman such as Dan Williams to appoint a PR man in order calm the waters so to speak, to placate the fans on forums etc.., to explain to them how a thoroughly decent bloke he is. Possibly drop him a few £000s with a win bonus?

Following on, I must say how entertaining I have found “Nicko’s Thread” throughout the close season. A real treat to have a journalist giving their slant on the various gossip of comings and goings. A credible top rate journalist would in my opinion be independent, whereby all their monies are earned through their journalistic endeavours and wouldn’t be involved in associated business dealings. Or if in actual fact they did have an interest, they would disclose their interest at the outset. For example, if one had a business interest in an agency that would financially benefit from an action that occurred, they would disclose this.

I may be way off the mark and I do acknowledge that journalists have to cultivate relationships in order to obtain an exclusive story, but given that there are journalists out there where it is has been shown that they might also be out for financial gain, I wondered if perhaps this might also be the case here? Apologises if this is not so, but I like all other passionate BRFC supporters on here would appreciate to know this, in order that we might make our own opinions on the source of information and its relevance to our club.

So, hold on...

I find out who the guy is against his will and despite his denials.

I name his backers against their wishes and despite his denials. They are close to pulling out of the deal because of it.

I point out that he has overbid, in my opinion, and this proves to be the hold-up.

I then find out about the shape of his next offer and the fact that there have to be guarantees about spending power.

I tell you about a second bid, which won't do his chances any good.

I tell you about a deadline that was not met.

I tell you that he has hit a major personal snag and the deal is on the verge of collapse.

So, I find out the facts for my newspaper and pass on anything missed out to fans who have genuine concerns and questions.

And you question my motives and integrity.

Who, exactly, does Dan Williams hope to influence?

Is he buying the club from you?

Or is he talking to Rothschilds, the trustees and the club?

I know plenty of extra info about some of his plans but I have deliberately kept them back. Just as well.

[USRoverME]

Nicko,

I hate to say it, as you've been a nice addition to the board, especially with the transfer stuff, but I think its best to just stop the posts on the subject, despite how additctive this board might be, or how much you might want posters to see things from your perspective. No matter how much you post at this point, you won't changes anyone's ming this many posts into a thread, and with every post, you're giving the doubters and the wind-up merchants (notice I'm trying to distinguish between the two) more ammo to look for any semblance of a mistake in the facts or 'PR slant' or whatever else they want to paint the takeover as "amateur" or the like. Case in point, any of the posts form the previous 3 pages post which usualy contains one phrase or sentence from a previous post followed by a or

Heck even if you can announce tomorrow that the sale is on and will be finished in 24 hours, you'll still be wrong in some peoples eyes, you'd still be the PR man, and you'd still have a large amount of people saying it will be the death of Rovers. So, its better just to stick to the fact, let people think what they want, and not try to change opinions at this stage.

oh yeah, and those posts ending in "and I know more details but I have to keep them secret"... You've said it at least 20 times, and I cringe every time. Its as convincing as those "transfer day" rumor posts on 606 about people being seen in 10 different airports within the same hour. Not saying it isn't true, and it may well be a good reason to be excited about this, but if you can't tell anyone, and we can't know the details, then how can any of us reasonably be excitied? Especially this 'late' in the process. It's sort of like trying to get me all of the sudden getting excitied about a report of new intelligence about potential WMDs in Iraq in 2007.

[nicko]

You have had my last word on the subject.

For future information, check the newspapers.

In the meantime, talk among yourselves.

[Roversider]

You have had my last word on the subject.

For future information, check the newspapers.

In the meantime, talk among yourselves.

Nicko, don't take the hump with some of the comments made by some of the posters. Several of us appreciate your comments and also understand that there is a limit to what can be put into the public domain.

I'm amazed that individuals who choose to use the forum as a discussion area actually demand the discussion to stop.

We are all concerned that any new owners have the Rovers at heart, clearly the Trustees also share that view. If Daniel Williams and his backers tick the boxes for the Trustees then we don't get a say anyway. Rovers are owned and controlled by the Trust, not the fans coming through the turnstiles and as for those who don't get to Ewood - in your dreams.

As for the rest of the gossip I suspect that the club will remain even more tightly-lipped about discussing future bids.

[thenodrog]

Let me clarify.

Dan Williams's name and plans only came into the public domain because I hunted him down. As a result of that I possibly wrecked the deal.

Also as a result of that he has had his name and other details plastered about by amateur detectives.

I can hardly believe that you wrote that! Any 'plastering' of his name anywhere was down to you and you alone. You keep insisting that naming the bidders was your exclusive! The few members who contribute on here do it to a small audience and we certainly do not have access to the pages of a national newspaper for goodness sake!

I point out that he has overbid, in my opinion, and this proves to be the hold-up.

Either you are conceited beyond belief Alan or Dan Williams is a financial fool who is daft enough to bid millions and millions too much for a business without doing his homework first. Small wonder his backers are pulling out is it? No disrespect to you with this comment but a sports journo should not be advising a big hitting financial whizzkid on the nature and level of his next major investment should he? How does that stack up with his credibility? Bidding up then bidding down was one big mistake and showed his acumen and research to be seriously flawed, and imo the beginning of the end as far as the present owners of BRFC are concerned.

[philipl]

Nicko seems to be consistently missing the point if brian potter and others are correct in their understanding.

Nicko keeps talking about the sale price which in this case, extraordinarilly, is close to being irrelevant. The Trust settlement sets a series of criteria which have to be met. If they are not met, sale price is hypothetical and I cannot see the Trust wasting time negotiating seriously. At best an indicator might have been given so that DW would know what the unreturnable capital requirement target might be.

The conversation probably began and ended with one question and answer:

Can you provide the club with better than £7m non-returnable cash injections inflation adjusted annually for all the foreseeable future?

Nicko quoting DW: "I can provide £20m one off and the rest depends on performance of our business plan."

As brian potter explained, at that point the Trust could not legally sell to DW. DW has probably talked to Rovers, the Trust and Rothschilds and they will have listened politely.

No doubt if he was really trying to convince the club of his bona fides and the ability of his business plan to sustain the club going forwards, he will have disclosed the brilliant ideas Nicko keeps referring to. That means the club will know the marketing opportunities DW refers to and the fact that Nicko is not sharing them with us doesn't matter.

[Sparky Marky]

Is this guy supposed to be Alan Nixon from the papers...???...

[rovers_rob]

Nicko seems to be consistently missing the point if brian potter is concerned.

He keeps talking about the sale price which in this case, extraordinarilly, is close to being irrelevant.

The Trust settlement sets a series of criteria which have to be met. I they are not met nobody would even get to talking sale prices.

The conversation probably began and ended with one question and answer:

Can you provide the club with better than £7m non-returnable cash injections inflation adjusted annually for all the foreseeable future?

Nicko quoting DW: "I can provide £20m one off and the rest depends on performance of our business plan."

As brian potter explained, at that point the Trust could not legally sell to DW. DW has probably talked to Rovers, the Trust and Rothschilds and they will have listened politely. No doubt if he was really trying to convince them of his bona fides he will have disclosed the brilliant ideas Nicko keeps referring to.

Forgive my ignorance but I have a few questions that yourself or others may be able to answer

1. Is it true that there is a set of criteria or are people just assuming that there is ? - When I say set of criteria i don't mean "We want 45 million quid for the club"

2. Do the Trust actually still pay this money into the club or are we assuming again ?

3. Why do the trust want to sell ? The club seems to be in an excellent position, well run, manageable debts etc...

thanks

[Fife Rover]

Forgive my ignorance but I have a few questions that yourself or others may be able to answer

1. Is it true that there is a set of criteria or are people just assuming that there is ? - When I say set of criteria i don't mean "We want 45 million quid for the club"

2. Do the Trust actually still pay this money into the club or are we assuming again ?

3. Why do the trust want to sell ? The club seems to be in an excellent position, well run, manageable debts etc...

thanks

An excellent set of questions Rob! Unfortunately you will not get any definite answers to those on here. At best a variety of opinions and wild guesses. I wish we COULD get the answers to those Q's, but as ever we have to wait and trust in those who are doing the negotiating.

[Boz]

So, hold on...

I find out who the guy is against his will and despite his denials. Fair play to you, excellent investigative journalism, I am fully aware that the trustees and board are ultra secretive.

I name his backers against their wishes and despite his denials. They are close to pulling out of the deal because of it. If they have said this to you I find it incredulous. Buyers of an EPL club seriously expect to remain anonymous? Are they having a laugh?

I point out that he has overbid, in my opinion, and this proves to be the hold-up.

I then find out about the shape of his next offer and the fact that there have to be guarantees about spending power.

I tell you about a second bid, which won't do his chances any good.

I tell you about a deadline that was not met.

I tell you that he has hit a major personal snag and the deal is on the verge of collapse.

So, I find out the facts for my newspaper and pass on anything missed out to fans who have genuine concerns and questions. Fantastic and I am truly grateful to you for this.

And you question my motives and integrity. And you don’t answer a fairly simple question. Motives - Is there a possibility that you or any connected person or company associated to you, might financially benefit? Integrity – I see no need to raise Wayne Rooney, Everton, Man Utd and Proactive Sports Management, as I honestly do not wish to get personal. As I started by stating I have very enjoyed all your posting on here, but for the sack of clarity it just struck me that I could see real benefit from you declaring any interest in order that we might temper our views of the postings from someone such as you who is far more informed on this subject. If your answer is no, then I apologise.

Who, exactly, does Dan Williams hope to influence? Well he should very much be hoping to influence the supporters of BRFC, because when all said and done, we are BRFC.

Is he buying the club from you? In actual fact, ultimately yes! As he will be obliged to make me the same offer to the trustees he agrees with the trustees for my very small shareholding in BRFC.

Or is he talking to Rothschilds, the trustees and the club?

I know plenty of extra info about some of his plans but I have deliberately kept them back. Just as well.

[Ste B]

As far as I know

1) Theres no criteria other than for things to be in the best interest of the club.

2) Theres still a small amount of money coming in - but its small fry compared to the amounts of TV monies

3) The trust isnt geared up to running a football club, its already well run and professional, but in the best interests of the club to take it to the next level it needs new funding. We've seen other clubs getting their takeovers and benefit from the extra funds available. The trust are not able to compete with these.

Its been said by a few people - Nicko, John Williams etc that if we dont get the funding from a takeover we are in danger of being left behind. Its now, while we have a top manager and a good team that we are worth buying.

[stuwilky]

Forgive my ignorance but I have a few questions that yourself or others may be able to answer

1. Is it true that there is a set of criteria or are people just assuming that there is ? - When I say set of criteria i don't mean "We want 45 million quid for the club"

2. Do the Trust actually still pay this money into the club or are we assuming again ?

3. Why do the trust want to sell ? The club seems to be in an excellent position, well run, manageable debts etc...

thanks

An excellent set of questions Rob! Unfortunately you will not get any definite answers to those on here. At best a variety of opinions and wild guesses. I wish we COULD get the answers to those Q's, but as ever we have to wait and trust in those who are doing the negotiating.

Apart from the ansqwer to Q2, which is clearly visible in the accounts.

We get a cash donation of at least £3m from our "parent" along with other less visible benefits such as an interest free no fixed payment loan, which on occasion gets converted into share capital (£14m of debt went this way last year.)

[philipl]

As I, and a few others have mentioned on previous occasions a lot of these so called boxes that need to be ticked are set in stone in the terms of Jack's will. No matter how much the Trustees want to sell their shares they simply cannot unless the sale meets the deeds of the trust. One of the main criteria (of which there are many) is that any sale or takeover must put the club in a better position than it is currently, and make provision for the clubs future. Now, bear in mind that 99% of the clubs shares are currently owned by a Trust with a net value approaching £1bn it is going to take somebody with a serious amount of money, and readily available money at that (not raised by debt) to complete the takeover. The actual value of the Trust is not really the main factor, which is a good thing in many ways as the likely hood of somebody with a net worth of £1bn wanting to buy us is pretty much non existent. It will be more based upon the investment which they are able to put into the club, with current estimates that the Trust finances the club with an investment of around £7m per season at present, so anybody who can commit to investment significantly greater than this would be seen as potentially putting the club in a better position (dependent upon where the investment was coming from). That is putting things simply, in reality it is obviously a lot more complex than that.

The one thing to remember here is that we are a club (hopefully) looking for a top six finish, however in terms of revenue generated through gate receipts and sponsorship etc we are now where near the top six. We have operating costs (wages, bonuses expenses etc) of a top six club with the income of a much lower club, so anybody that under estimates the Trusts commitment to the club should just stop and consider where the extra money to keep us at this level (which has effectively has been plugging the black hole) is coming from.

When Jack died, an investment of £7m per season from the trust, rising in line with inflation was probably of significant benefit to the club. However, what was not considered (and there's no way it could have been) is the massive rise in money within football which has left the Trusts annual investment looking rather small. The Trust is not an position (for whatever reason) to provide the club with the amounts of investment needed to make serious impact in todays markets, which is what is ultimately needed to take the club to the next level - hence why they are looking for new investment.

Its as simple as that.

The accounts clearly show an average of £6m in effect being injected on average every year since Jack's death (part as £3m grant, part as soft no interest loans which hitherto have been turned into shares).

Puting the £7m referred to above in context, Rovers will probably turn over in the region of £50m this season, up from £42m. The Walker Trust contribution is therefore currently about 15% of the club's income but of course, there are no costs associated with receiving it.

This post is fully accurate as far as I know and answers the questions posed by rovers_rob.

[tchocky]

US tycoon Daniel Williams insists his plans to takeover Blackburn are still on track. (Daily Express)

[EwoodGlory]

Buy the Mirror, not the Express, they got the wrong paper.

[Hughesy]

Nicko your comments are appreciated by most - so please ignore the few mindless people that are just fed up of waiting. Most of us on here appreciate what info you provide us with, and it is good to get some inside info.

So ignore the few brainless ones

[Dunnfc]

Nicko your comments are appreciated by most - so please ignore the few mindless people that are just fed up of waiting. Most of us on here appreciate what info you provide us with, and it is good to get some inside info.

So ignore the few brainless ones

I second that.