[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[AlanK]

Can anyone seriously say that if we gave Hughes £20 million in January instead of £5 million that we would be worse off at the end of it?

Quite possibly yes.

Would you prefer rely on money to get Ferdinand for £30m or someone like Hughes who get in people like Samba and Nelson for peanuts. We do not have to spend crazy money. Do you honestly think Utd like spending that sort of money on Rio, Hargreaves and Carrick. Of course they don`t. They just have to. They are Utd and its taken as said they will pay big bucks. Its the same as the clubs I listed previously. They spend big because players / managers / owners / agents know they will. Its crazy money and they end up WORSE than what we are. If we get dragged in to that gutter, gone will be our bargains and we will end up with a load of over priced prima donnas that their agents have off loaded to us.

Hughes is doing it for us, Big Sam at Bolton, O`Neill at Leicester etc.

Look at Sam now. Big club, big players, big budget getting nowhereI bet if he was still at Bolton they would be above the toon in the league.

Ditto O`Neill. Big bucks spent, biggest club in the midlands. would you want to be a Villa fan?

Rovers, spent £4m? this summer and flying.

Its about management not money!

[thenodrog]

I wasn't picking a fight with you, I was merely expressing an opinion. I just feel that no one knows the true nature of the trust, which means no one can say for sure what the situation is. If you do know the exact details of the trust then just say so and I will happily accept that you know what is going on. I would also be impressed if next when you happen to disagree with me, that at least once, you manage to come up with a response that doesn't involve making fun of my age or bringing up some lack of experience. If you'd like, as I'm such a little boy, I'll ask my father what his opinion is and, seeing as he has far more than 10 years of experience, you'll just have to accept whatever he says as fact. That's how it works right?

Looks like the blessed vision of an all new shiny happy clappy board might turn out to be pie in the sky.

[RevidgeBlue]

I don't disagree with Chesh about the likely worth of the Trust's assets, in fact to play the role of devil's advocate, it's a little disappointing that a bit more funding hasn't been made available to Mark Hughes for transfers.

I'm not so certain that the Club won't be sold to more or less the first reasonably credible buyer who meets the required asking price and (rather unusually) I agree with Eddie for once that there is a lot of speculation being put forward despite the fact none of us on here know the terms of Jack's will nor the terms of any restrictions under which the Trustees have to operate.

Or not as the case may be.

If no-one comes up with the asking price it will be business as usual for the forseeable future but I also agree with Eddie that all things being equal in the long term we will lose ground if some money is not made available to our manager, whilst it is available to rival managers.

[den]

A question to two of the people who seem to know how a trust works, Chesh and Philip: Who would oversee any sale. Who would be in a position to say to the trustees that the proposed deal was not in the intended wishes of Jack Walker. Who could say - no deal?

Also, if the answer to the above is David Brown, who would be able to appeal against a deal that wasn't in the best interests and in accordance with Jacks wishes? In essence, who, apart from one of the trustees, can put the clubs arguments forward, in a case where the trustees are clearly going against Jacks wishes?

[thenodrog]

A question to two of the people who seem to know how a trust works, Chesh and Philip: Who would oversee any sale. Who would be in a position to say to the trustees that the proposed deal was not in the intended wishes of Jack Walker. Who could say - no deal?

Also, if the answer to the above is David Brown, who would be able to appeal against a deal that wasn't in the best interests and in accordance with Jacks wishes? In essence, who, apart from one of the trustees, can put the clubs arguments forward, in a case where the trustees are clearly going against Jacks wishes?

Guessing.......... but wouldn't it be a concensus of the beneficiaries of the Trust? In reallity I'd imagine Fred rules OK.

[den]

Guessing.......... but wouldn't it be a concensus of the beneficiaries of the Trust? In reallity I'd imagine Fred rules OK.

The beneficiaries would have to know what Jacks wishes were though. Not sure they do.

[Eddie]

Look at Sam now. Big club, big players, big budget getting nowhereI bet if he was still at Bolton they would be above the toon in the league.

Ditto O`Neill. Big bucks spent, biggest club in the midlands. would you want to be a Villa fan?

Rovers, spent £4m? this summer and flying.

Its about management not money!

True, but my point is good management combined with money can still be better than good management without. We'll never be in a United situation, so the comparison really isn't there. Look at a club like Portsmouth, Harry is great at finding deals, but this summer he had money and every addition, with the exception of probably Nugent and Cranie, have been good. There is no way that they would be where they were without the money. Do you really believe that we can find players like Samba and Nelsen forever? Who's going to replace Tugay and Savage? Maybe, just maybe we'll manage, but I'm sure Hughes wouldn't turn down having the ability to replace Tugay with £10 million pounds, even if he thought he might be able to do it for less than £1 million.

As for who oversees the sale of the club, it depends on the nature of the trust. Theno, it would be for the trustees rather than the benificiaries to decide whether or not the sale could go through.

[den]

As for who oversees the sale of the club, it depends on the nature of the trust. Theno, it would be for the trustees rather than the benificiaries to decide whether or not the sale could go through.

Eddie, if you read again, that's an answer to a question I didn't ask.

[Eddie]

Sorry, I was answering theno. Unless it says so in the trust no one would have the ability to tell the trustees that the sale was not in accordance with what Jack Walker wanted. If certain requirements have been set and then are met, it will be up t o the trustees and the trustees only as to whether or not they sell the club. I don't think anyone knows exactly how much discretion they have. If they sold the club when it did not meet the requirements then action could be taken against them, but I think it is unlikely that they would do that.

[den]

Sorry, I was answering theno. Unless it says so in the trust no one would have the ability to tell the trustees that the sale was not in accordance with what Jack Walker wanted. If certain requirements have been set and then are met, it will be up t o the trustees and the trustees only as to whether or not they sell the club. I don't think anyone knows exactly how much discretion they have. If they sold the club when it did not meet the requirements then action could be taken against them, but I think it is unlikely that they would do that.

Eddie, with respect, the answer from you should be "I don't know how the club can be protected against the trustees going against Jacks' will, - Den".

[Eddie]

Well, whilst I have little or no practical experience in the area, having studied law for three years I do have a basic understanding of trusts law. I know exactly what could be done should the trustees not abide by the rules of the trust, I thought your question was more if there was anyone with a sort of veto power, to which all I can say is that without knowing the full detail of this particular trust that no one could answer that.

[den]

Well, whilst I have little or no practical experience in the area, having studied law for three years I do have a basic understanding of trusts law. I know exactly what could be done should the trustees not abide by the rules of the trust, I thought your question was more if there was anyone with a sort of veto power, to which all I can say is that without knowing the full detail of this particular trust that no one could answer that.

That's why my question was directed to Philip and Chesh, who both appear to know how a trust does work.

No prob Eddie.

[Eddie]

You still don't seem to get what I'm saying, it's all well and good knowing how a trust works, but they arn't copied and pasted from one individual or company to another. It is absolutely impossible for anyone to answer your question unless they are privy to the details of this trust. We can all take educated guesses as to what the details of the trust are, some of the guesses will be slightly more or less educated, but at the end of the day they will all be guesses.

[den]

You still don't seem to get what I'm saying, it's all well and good knowing how a trust works, but they arn't copied and pasted from one individual or company to another. It is absolutely impossible for anyone to answer your question unless they are privy to the details of this trust. We can all take educated guesses as to what the details of the trust are, some of the guesses will be slightly more or less educated, but at the end of the day they will all be guesses.

How do you know they aren't?

[Eddie]

If someone does know the details of this trust then I would have thought they might have said so earlier on, seeing as these discussions have gone on for quite a long time. If they do know the details then of course they could tell us everything that needs to be known. If they do know the details, but are either not allowed to or think it would be improper to tell us that they do know them, then I apologise for not having thought of this possibility, but seeing as most of the regular contributors on this topic, myself included of course, like to blow their own horn as often and as loudly as possible I think it is unlikely that someone has an indepth knowledge of this trust and has yet to tell us. Who knows though.

[den]

Anyway Eddie, we're diversing. I wasn't asking whether anyone on here knew the specific terms of the Jersey trust. I was asking how the club can be protected against the trustees not fulfilling Jack's wishes. There must be a legal binding to the trustees somewhere. Thus, for their to be that accountability, there must be a legal procedure for appeal, laid down somewhere.

Or maybe they can do what the hell they want.

[Eddie]

Oh, of course. If there are specific requirements of the trust, which their obviously are in this instance, then the trustees are duty-bound to respect them. Should they no meet their requirements as trustees then legal action could be taken against them.

[Eddie]

Well the benificiaries could sue, who in this instance I assume are his children and relatives. I don't know if the club has somehow been worked into the trust in a way that allows it to represent itself. The law would be pretty strict here, so it is really unlikely that the trustees would ever take a chance on something.

[den]

Well the benificiaries could sue, who in this instance I assume are his children and relatives. I don't know if the club has somehow been worked into the trust in a way that allows it to represent itself. The law would be pretty strict here, so it is really unlikely that the trustees would ever take a chance on something.

Eddie, you're tying yourself in knots here. The beneficiaries are anyone who benefits from the trust. Rovers are a beneficiary.

[Eddie]

To be honest the reason why I didn't put that as clearly as it could have been is because I wasn't sure whether Blackburn Rovers are a beneficiary of the trust or simply an asset of it. Your statement would be entirely true if we were dealing with individuals, but as it is a company it is possible that Rovers are seen as an investment or simply some other part of the estate. I would think it is quite likely that they are beneficiaries, but it isn't certain.

[blue phil]

Apologies in advance for what sounds like a daft question... who would sue the trustees if this actually happened?

Another (daft) question . If the trustees are so intent on selling why don't they - as a group or individually - simply resign and make way for replacements who aren't so keen ?

Maybe there is no facility for this eventuality and the present trustees just want out because they're tired of the business of running the show ?

[AlanK]

True, but my point is good management combined with money can still be better than good management without. We'll never be in a United situation, so the comparison really isn't there. Look at a club like Portsmouth, Harry is great at finding deals, but this summer he had money and every addition, with the exception of probably Nugent and Cranie, have been good. There is no way that they would be where they were without the money. Do you really believe that we can find players like Samba and Nelsen forever? Who's going to replace Tugay and Savage? Maybe, just maybe we'll manage, but I'm sure Hughes wouldn't turn down having the ability to replace Tugay with £10 million pounds, even if he thought he might be able to do it for less than £1 million.

As for who oversees the sale of the club, it depends on the nature of the trust. Theno, it would be for the trustees rather than the benificiaries to decide whether or not the sale could go through.

Look, when you only have a little money you make damn well sure that when you spend it you get the right player.

Santa Cruz, Warnock, Nelson, Samba, even Bentley was pennies in todays market.

If you have a wad of cash you can easily spend £28m on Veron, £6m on Titus effing Bramble, silly money on Djemba Djemba or whatever his name was.

Have a look at how much clubs have wasted before finding the player they want. Benni, Santa Cruz and Derbs cost nowt compared to Saha, Rooney and Tevez yet if we beat Utd then win our game in hand we go above Utd so comparisons with them are extremely relevant.

I don`t expect to win the league. I can`t see that happening again until the format is changed, don`t ask how, thats for another day.

But, do not say we are not comparable to Utd, if we win our game in hand we are in the top 4 who spent well over £100m this summer and we`ll be there alongside them.

And yes, if you have to find the bargains you will. If you don`t have to you`ll waste more than 80% of what you spend.

[USRoverME]

That's daft Alan, you are basically saying every player signed for big money is over-rated, and every bargain signing is a world-beater.

Also how do you explain the multitude of players signed for average cotnracts who are just that, average. How do you also explain the fact that the teams with money, are and have been at the top for eyars, if spending money is pointless?

The fact is there's a small margin for error trying to turn budget signings into world class players. In our case, Roque's arthritis, Benni's love of Jose, Nelsen's hamstring, Samba's inexperience and youth all could have been deal breakers causing them to be flops. We've been lucky to hold the troubls off, for now. I hope it may continue, but to blindly believe that every budget signing will come off for Hughes, simply because we love him is daft.

[rebelmswar]

I am in the process of expanding my portfolio into venture capitalism with the goal of buying Blackburn Rovers. I plan on giving all my money to the club and giving myself a 53K upper management role. All proceeds the club takes in will be spent on improvements to the ground, training facilities, and better pie availability. A smoking section will be added (that is glassed off) to all stands and a full service bar added to a stand that will be voted on by this very board. After the contract ends our strips will be made by Ralph Lauren from hand weaved alpaca wool and all players must contractually wear specially designed boots made from Italian leather and lined with dodo feathers. I have purchased three lottery tickets so far and intend on bring a further two into my portfolio. My fellow fans, until my vision becomes a reality please stay the course and believe in the board.

[Sandiway Blue]

I am in the process of expanding my portfolio into venture capitalism with the goal of buying Blackburn Rovers. I plan on giving all my money to the club and giving myself a 53K upper management role. All proceeds the club takes in will be spent on improvements to the ground, training facilities, and better pie availability. A smoking section will be added (that is glassed off) to all stands and a full service bar added to a stand that will be voted on by this very board. After the contract ends our strips will be made by Ralph Lauren from hand weaved alpaca wool and all players must contractually wear specially designed boots made from Italian leather and lined with dodo feathers. I have purchased three lottery tickets so far and intend on bring a further two into my portfolio. My fellow fans, until my vision becomes a reality please stay the course and believe in the board.

Quality!