[Archived] Rovers Sold ??

[Eddie]

Look, when you only have a little money you make damn well sure that when you spend it you get the right player.

Santa Cruz, Warnock, Nelson, Samba, even Bentley was pennies in todays market.

If you have a wad of cash you can easily spend £28m on Veron, £6m on Titus effing Bramble, silly money on Djemba Djemba or whatever his name was.

Have a look at how much clubs have wasted before finding the player they want. Benni, Santa Cruz and Derbs cost nowt compared to Saha, Rooney and Tevez yet if we beat Utd then win our game in hand we go above Utd so comparisons with them are extremely relevant.

I don`t expect to win the league. I can`t see that happening again until the format is changed, don`t ask how, thats for another day.

But, do not say we are not comparable to Utd, if we win our game in hand we are in the top 4 who spent well over £100m this summer and we`ll be there alongside them.

And yes, if you have to find the bargains you will. If you don`t have to you`ll waste more than 80% of what you spend.

If you don't expect us to win the league then how can you possibly compare us to a side who most expect to win it? We are in a different world to them. If it is so easy to find bargains then how come more sides don't do it? We've been lucky, yes lucky, with some of our signings. Obviously Hughes has a good eye for a player and must have an excellent scouting network, but some of these deals could have turned sour very easily. We can't expect that for the next 10 years we'll have anywhere near this sort of success rate with players, whereas clubs like Villa, Portsmouth, Spurs and West Ham can feel pretty safe knowing that if they spend £20 million a season they'll probably at least stay in the league. For 90% of clubs there is almost a direct correlation between the amount of money spent and where they finish in the table, at the moment we are one of the few exceptions, but we won't be forever, it simply isn't possible.

What I'm advocating is a middle ground. I'm not saying that you blow £20 million because you have it, but you use it if you need it. If you really think that it is impossible to find a manager willing to put in the work to find as cheap of a replacement as possible then football management is in a sad state. Some clubs have prices pushed up simply because of who they are, I personally feel that won't happen for us unless something amazing happens with our finances.

[Eddie]

Another (daft) question . If the trustees are so intent on selling why don't they - as a group or individually - simply resign and make way for replacements who aren't so keen ?

Maybe there is no facility for this eventuality and the present trustees just want out because they're tired of the business of running the show ?

I very much doubt that they want to sell purely because they have grown tired of the club, it is much more likely that they simply realise that is in the best interest of the club. For all we know there may even be something written in that says that they have to sell it by a certain point, or should at least be looking to do so.

[RevidgeBlue]

A question to two of the people who seem to know how a trust works, Chesh and Philip: Who would oversee any sale. Who would be in a position to say to the trustees that the proposed deal was not in the intended wishes of Jack Walker. Who could say - no deal?

Also, if the answer to the above is David Brown, who would be able to appeal against a deal that wasn't in the best interests and in accordance with Jacks wishes? In essence, who, apart from one of the trustees, can put the clubs arguments forward, in a case where the trustees are clearly going against Jacks wishes?

Really good question that den - if this hypothetical situation ever arose, challenging the Trustees would surely theoretically have to be down to either the Walker family members (unlikely?) or the three remaining Rovers directors who aren't also a Trustee - i.e. John Williams, Tom Finn and the Finance guy whose name escapes me (Martin Goodman?)

It surely couldn't be down to David Brown, as a Trustee and a director, he would face a conflict of interest.

In practice I couldn't see anyone ever making a challenge and I suspect what the Trustees say will go at the end of the day.

[Ronin]

I'm not saying that you blow £20 million because you have it, but you use it if you need it.

I think this is where some of the clubs with the bigger chequebooks seem to wrong, as they seem to splash the cash just because they have it, and not necessarily spending on players where they need it.

I'm sure if Rovers and Hughes get an injection of cash, then it will be spent wisely, as has already been proven with Hughes' signings so far.

[thenodrog]

I think this is where some of the clubs with the bigger chequebooks seem to wrong, as they seem to splash the cash just because they have it, and not necessarily spending on players where they need it.

Indeed. Anybody care to total up the combined purchase cost of Nathan Blake, Ashley Ward, Christian Dailly, Corrado Grabbi, Per Frandsen and compare it to the combined purchase cost of Sav, Nelsen, RSQ, Benni Mac and Samba? Obviously times have changed and so have salaries but it just goes to show that having lots of money available is only part of the equation. Hughes is far better without any money than the last 3 managers have been with it. Sometimes mangers are better without much spending money as Curbishley and Allardyce might yet find out.

[Cheshireblue]

A question to two of the people who seem to know how a trust works, Chesh and Philip: Who would oversee any sale. Who would be in a position to say to the trustees that the proposed deal was not in the intended wishes of Jack Walker. Who could say - no deal?

Also, if the answer to the above is David Brown, who would be able to appeal against a deal that wasn't in the best interests and in accordance with Jacks wishes? In essence, who, apart from one of the trustees, can put the clubs arguments forward, in a case where the trustees are clearly going against Jacks wishes?

The trust deed itself sets out the rules for the trust. They are none negotiable and the trustees have no discretion to vary them. They have to follow those rules regardless of their own personal feelings. Of course, they will have to exercise an element of discretion as no set of rules can provide for every eventuality, but there will be over riding principles in there that will guide that discretion.

In order to protect themselves, as trustees have personal liability, they will enlist the help of professional advisers as well as canvas the views of all of the beneficiaries of the trust - in this case the Club. If the Club thinks that a sale is in its best interests, then that will go some way to convincing the trustees that it is. If the professional advisers (ie Rothschilds) agree then that is strong and compelling argument that the sale ought to be carried through, but at the end of the day, it is the trustees that will have to make the call having considered all of the issues.

What the trustees do at the moment is keep the Club honest. They do not allow it to endlessly spank money up the wall. One of the conditions that are clearly attached to any application for funding is that the expenditure makes sense, has a business case to back it up and that it is capable of being funded by the club out of projected income and earnings.

On a purely financial basis, any investment in any single multi million pound mega star in not a viable investment. If you require a club to be able to finance the purchase of a £50m player, then you have to show that he adds sufficient value to the club to pay back that investment. Let's say you give him a 5 year deal on £100k a week. Assuming no terminal value (ie he plays out his contract and then leaves on a free) he has cost you £50m to buy and approx £25m in wages. Total cost, 75m. You have to expense that through your accounts at the rate if £15m per season. Is that player going to generate an extra £15m a season on his own? The answer is undoubtedly "no".

Therefore simply buying in megastars will not, and frankly should not, happen at a club like ours. If we are to continue to stay solvent, and let us not forget the club is a limited company and has to be able to pay its debts as and when they fall due, then there is no way that we could spend silly money without already having a huge income to fund it. ManUre were extremely lucky in the fact that they had an incredible crop of youngsters that all came through together. It gave them a core of a team that was able to get them to the top 4 so as to generate teh income that they need to fund the acquisitions of the likes of Veron, Rooney, Cantona, Staam etc. When your academy turns out Beckham, Butt, Scholes, The Nevilles and Giggs in one season, you are then in a position where you can go out and spend big as that team is already generating income beyond it's own cost.

If you can get a relatively inexpensive team to effectively overperform in terms of finances, then you can look to bolster that squad with more expensive signings, but not on a wing and a prayer. Leeds tried that and now look at them. Keeping the club on a sound commercial footing is more important than mortgaging your future for a short term tilt at the title. You have to be solvent and playing in the top league if you are to have a chance of winning anything.

If Roman quits Chelsea tomorrow, they will be bust inside of 3 months. The same may have been true of Rovers in the 90's, but we had a life long fan to back us, not some fly by nght Russian Oligarch. Jack left us in good shape and it would be foolish to blow that.

[Cheshireblue]

Looks like the blessed vision of an all new shiny happy clappy board might turn out to be pie in the sky.

I'm still amused by the fact that Eddie is going to run off and tell his Dad!

[Craigman]

I keep checking this thread to see if there is some news on the takeover and can't find any ! I must be in the wrong thread !

[den]

Thanks Chesh. That clears up most of my uncertainty. I wasn't sure that the club; i.e. JW, TF etc, were actually involved in ANY of the trusts affairs. You say that the trustees are personally responsible for carrying out JW's wishes - therefore I assume they are LEGALLY responsible. Well in the knowledge of that, that should be all the protection that the club should need.

As for the rest of your post - I did know that the club had to draw up an annual budget, that must be submitted to the trustees before any finance is agreed. It certainly has never been the case of the club running it's own affairs, then holding out the cap for extra finance.

Much appreciated.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Thanks Chesh - good read that.

At least Jim should now know that you're not a used car salesman from Crewe or whatever he puts forward from time to time!

[Eddie]

I'm still amused by the fact that Eddie is going to run off and tell his Dad!

I'm still amazed that a grown man tries to pick on people on an internet messageboard. Life's quite a surprising thing really.

[philipl]

Been travelling- Chesh has given us an excellent answer.

I would just add that the Trustees have spotted an envirionment where it is possible that there is someone out there who could secure the club's future better than them. If nobody comes forwards who meets all the criteria, they have no option but to carry on.

Even for cold-bodied creatures like Jersey Trustees, having a premiership football club in a Trust's portfolio is a bit different and I wouldn'yt underestimate the emotional draw. Having done their analysis in accordance with the terms of Jack's Will and publicly said they are looking obviously changes the mindset- to do the best by the club they have the find the buyer who ticks all the boxes if they exist.

Quite a few posters are getting twisted into selling prices and the Trust wanting a quick buck etc etc but they are totally misunderstanding what is going on.

Eddie is usually good value with his comments but on this thread recently, all I can say is he ain't going to like what his Dad is going to tell him.

[thenodrog]

I'm still amazed that a grown man tries to pick on people on an internet messageboard. Life's quite a surprising thing really.

Why bang on about a grown man picking on people? I thought you had reached adulthood eddie? If so it's hardly a case of anyone picking on another is it?

btw.......... is your Dad a lot lot bigger than Chesh?

[colin]

Why bang on about a grown man picking on people? I thought you had reached adulthood eddie?

I don't think Eddie has suggested that he hasn't reach adulthood. Where did you read that?

Thanks for the post Chesh, most informative.

[rovers_rob]

Been travelling- Chesh has given us an excellent answer.

I would just add that the Trustees have spotted an envirionment where it is possible that there is someone out there who could secure the club's future better than them. If nobody comes forwards who meets all the criteria, they have no option but to carry on.

Even for cold-bodied creatures like Jersey Trustees, having a premiership football club in a Trust's portfolio is a bit different and I wouldn'yt underestimate the emotional draw. Having done their analysis in accordance with the terms of Jack's Will and publicly said they are looking obviously changes the mindset- to do the best by the club they have the find the buyer who ticks all the boxes if they exist.

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,1...2883856,00.html - Birmingham are in a mess, reading reports like this makes me appreciate even more the setup we have at Rovers.

[b12_simon]

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,1...2883856,00.html - Birmingham are in a mess, reading reports like this makes me appreciate even more the setup we have at Rovers.

Reminds me of my favourite Villa song:

There's a circus in the town (in the town)

Stevie Brucie is a clown (is a clown)

Karen Brady is a ####ing slag!

Birmingham is going down (going down).

[USRoverME]

Oddly, there's a story of Walt Disney's son looking into buying Derby....

How are Derby more attractive than Rovers?

[Alan75]

Oddly, there's a story of Walt Disney's son looking into buying Derby....

How are Derby more attractive than Rovers?

Walt promised his son a Micky Mouse outfit.

[bluebruce]

Oddly, there's a story of Walt Disney's son looking into buying Derby....

How are Derby more attractive than Rovers?

They've denied it and called it 'potentially damaging'. It did sound a bit goofy.

[nicko]

How are Derby more attractive than Rovers?

Derby County is an attractive deal because of the possible development around the stadium, they have a fair amount of land to expand on and it is a new industrial park.

There are also an awful lot of supporters.

The current team is poor and going down, but investors look at the bigger picture.

I wouldn't say it's a better deal than Rovers but it has its attractions.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Derby certainly pull in the crowds but are in the enviable position of having very few other teams nearby (apart from the obvious), having a very large catchment area and being situated in a town somewhat bigger than Blackburn.

[BrianPotter]

Walt promised his son a Micky Mouse outfit.

[S15]

Oddly, there's a story of Walt Disney's son looking into buying Derby....

How are Derby more attractive than Rovers?

It's very simple, they have more supporters.

More supporters = more potential income.

Something Rovers will never have, which is why we will always be unattractive to everyone, in every way.

[yoda]

It's very simple, they have more supporters.

More supporters = more potential income.

Something Rovers will never have, which is why we will always be unattractive to everyone, in every way.

That's bullshit!

think positve!

[bob fleming]

why we will always be unattractive to everyone, in every way.

Apart from that football thing - which we're rather good at. "Top 10 English Premier League Club for sale. Why start with a pile of crap? - the foundations are well and truly laid at BRFC."

Then again Derby probably average 8,000 a week more than us.

God we stink. I don't know why they bother down at Ewood. We get small gates so what's the point? May as well fold and form Lancashire United. They're bound to be so much better, in every way.