[Archived] Bellamy

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

If The Sun say something "is claimed" what it means is: it isn't true, we needed material to fill our toilet paper. Perhaps it is true, but it wouldn't be the first time they were a little inaccurate.

[malk]

Dear lord.

I'm not sure that I find anything more strange about the following Bellamy still gets from Blackburn fans. The guy is a bum who played for us for just one year. In that year he was pretty average missing 11 games through injury and bagging 13 goals. The really sad thing is that this one season wonder's wonder is just 13 goals!

He's an injury prone bum pure and simple. Averaging less than 24 league games a season over the past 8 years is rubbish. Averaging 7 goals a year is pathetic. McCarthy's much lambasted play last season netted 8 goals (from just 21 starts) which would be joint third in Bellamy's career!

I didn't want him when he came (though I supported him when he had the shirt on, because that's what you do) and wasn't disappointed to see him leave.

Amazingly enough I don't want him back.

The bum.

[LeftWinger]

I'm not sure that I find anything more strange about the following Bellamy still gets from Blackburn fans. The guy is a bum who played for us for just one year. In that year he was pretty average missing 11 games through injury and bagging 13 goals. The really sad thing is that this one season wonder's wonder is just 13 goals!

He actually got 17 goals in 26 starts in all competitions. He was brilliant for us.

Did you ever see him play?

[Hasta]

He's an injury prone bum pure and simple. Averaging less than 24 league games a season over the past 8 years is rubbish. Averaging 7 goals a year is pathetic. McCarthy's much lambasted play last season netted 8 goals (from just 21 starts) which would be joint third in Bellamy's career!

On last seasons form would you really take McCarthy over Bellamy as a footballer?

[malk]

On last seasons form would you really take McCarthy over Bellamy as a footballer?

Without wanting to sound too much like an American schoolgirl... Are you for real?

We all know what McCarthy did last year and, whilst it was somewhat disappointing, he still managed to get 8 goals in the league. Bellamy on the other hand was injured yet again and scored an incredible 2 whole goals in 8 games.

What a legend!

So yes I would take McCarthy over Bellamy on last seasons form and get a 400% increase in premier league goals. Oh, and no doubt a decent saving in physio's bills too.

To answer LeftWinger, whilst 17 goals in 27 starts sounds good, I don't personally rate a striker for bagging 2 goals against and another brace against the mighty QPR! We can argue lies, damned lies and statistics but every time you say 17 goals in 27 starts I'll reply 13 goals in 27 (22 starts) league games.

I'll stick by my original comments, Bellamy's great season with us resulted in just five extra league goals than McCarthy's aparently terrible one. Also, Bellamy was our go to guy that year where McCarthy had to compete with an on fire Santa Cruz.

One year with double figure league goals does not a great striker make. In fact it makes a pretty rubbish one.

[joey_big_nose]

Bellamy might be an injury prone toe-rag but when he was at Rovers he was an absolutely sensational player. In terms of effectiveness only Duff could touch him in the last 10 years at the club. He could, and did, win games on his own.

What acid have you been taking?

[Head Rover Heels]

He was also the first half decent striker we had after watching a complete talent drought for a few years - This no doubt made him look a little "rosier" in everyones eyes.

There's no denying he was great, but would i swap Benni or RSC for him? Hmm, certainly not Roque - On form Benni vs on form Bellamy is a tricky one, but considering Benni is at least able to stand up for more than half a season, i'd have to stick with the new breed i'm afraid.

[joey_big_nose]

He was also the first half decent striker we had after watching a complete talent drought for a few years - This no doubt made him look a little "rosier" in everyones eyes.

There's no denying he was great, but would i swap Benni or RSC for him? Hmm, certainly not Roque - On form Benni vs on form Bellamy is a tricky one, but considering Benni is at least able to stand up for more than half a season, i'd have to stick with the new breed i'm afraid.

I would swap Roque for Bellamy in the form he was in at Ewood. Roque is a very very good player but lacks the explosiveness to turn games on his own.

Bellamy (with the clock turned back) and Roque up front together would be near perferction.

[malk]

Bellamy might be an injury prone toe-rag but when he was at Rovers he was an absolutely sensational player. In terms of effectiveness only Duff could touch him in the last 10 years at the club. He could, and did, win games on his own.

What acid have you been taking?

I'm flogging a dead horse here but sensational is just a touch rich no? 13 league goals and 4 assists. He was pacy and looked exciting which is always nice but his end product was pretty good. I'm not arguing with pretty good but sensational is a huge stretch. He's not even half the player that James Beattie is! Well maybe that Beattie was but even so.

Just have a look at his all time premiership stats hereand tell me you think they are impressive.

I watched him play a number of times and will admit he was very exciting to watch but the stats show that his final contributions were good but not great. Plus, as I've said, his year with us was by far the best of his career. The other seven years he has played in the premiership his play was at best average and often not even that (including last year for instance).

Which games did he win on his own? In all the games he played for us he only scored in six victories and of those six none were teams that finished in the top half.

Please don't compare a one season demi-wonder to Duff who is a legitimate Ewood hero (albeit only as much so as Wilcox or Ripley).

EDIT: Just seen your new post JBN and mein gott swapping Santa Cruz for Bellamy is the most ridiculous football comment I can call to mind!

One season with 13 bloody goals! Sweet baby Jesus and the Angels. Putting aside the fact that he is a prick of immense proportions, 13 goals is an average season which ever way you slice it. Santa Cruz on the other hand was the 4th top scorer in the league. Benni is one year removed from pretty much the same. Bellamy's BEST EVER season put him in the top 15 and you would swap them!

The mind boggles matey. What acid am I taking, man, you must be taking it in Albert Hofmann proportions!

[Montfort]

I'm flogging a dead horse here but sensational is just a touch rich no? 13 league goals and 4 assists. He was pacy and looked exciting which is always nice but his end product was pretty good. I'm not arguing with pretty good but sensational is a huge stretch. He's not even half the player that James Beattie is! Well maybe that Beattie was but even so.

Just have a look at his all time premiership stats hereand tell me you think they are impressive.

I watched him play a number of times and will admit he was very exciting to watch but the stats show that his final contributions were good but not great. Plus, as I've said, his year with us was by far the best of his career. The other seven years he has played in the premiership his play was at best average and often not even that (including last year for instance).

Which games did he win on his own? In all the games he played for us he only scored in six victories and of those six none were teams that finished in the top half.

Please don't compare a one season demi-wonder to Duff who is a legitimate Ewood hero (albeit only as much so as Wilcox or Ripley).

EDIT: Just seen your new post JBN and mein gott swapping Santa Cruz for Bellamy is the most ridiculous football comment I can call to mind!

One season with 13 bloody goals! Sweet baby Jesus and the Angels. Putting aside the fact that he is a prick of immense proportions, 13 goals is an average season which ever way you slice it. Santa Cruz on the other hand was the 4th top scorer in the league. Benni is one year removed from pretty much the same. Bellamy's BEST EVER season put him in the top 15 and you would swap them!

The mind boggles matey. What acid am I taking, man, you must be taking it in Albert Hofmann proportions!

I thought he was sensational too. Fantastic and spectacular with the ability to be up there with the top premiership goal scorers and players.

However, I dont think we will ever get some independant verification of this as I think he had his best season ever with Rovers and I dont think he will ever repeat the performance

[malk]

However, I dont think we will ever get some independant verification of this as I think he had his best season ever with Rovers and I dont think he will ever repeat the performance

I'm maybe a little sorry about banging on but...

Surely independent varification is the fact he's only got into double figures in league football once in eight attempts?

Less than a goal every other game simply cannot be sensational in my book, nor can a season of less than 15 league goals (talking about a top striker anyway). A caveat could be made for a great set up player but Bellamy is me me me all the way.

He wasn't a bad player for us but he certainly has been for other clubs.

Sensational... not so much.

[S15]

You keep banging on about Bellamy and his goal scoring record.

You're missing the point. Like someone said, him and Duff, best attacking players of the last decade for us. No doubt.

[Hasta]

Without wanting to sound too much like an American schoolgirl... Are you for real?

We all know what McCarthy did last year and, whilst it was somewhat disappointing, he still managed to get 8 goals in the league. Bellamy on the other hand was injured yet again and scored an incredible 2 whole goals in 8 games.

What a legend!

So yes I would take McCarthy over Bellamy on last seasons form and get a 400% increase in premier league goals. Oh, and no doubt a decent saving in physio's bills too.

I actually meant would you take Benni on last seasons form over Bellamy on the form he had at Ewood.

Benni last year scored 3 Premiership goals from open play. 3.

All the rest were penalties.

His contribution to the team effort was minimal. He had very few (if any?) assists.

Last season Benni was a complete passenger and we'd have been better off with Dickov in the squad. The Dick once scored 9 prem goals in one season including penalties you know.

[malk]

I actually meant would you take Benni on last seasons form over Bellamy on the form he had at Ewood.

Benni last year scored 3 Premiership goals from open play. 3.

All the rest were penalties.

His contribution to the team effort was minimal. He had very few (if any?) assists.

Last season Benni was a complete passenger and we'd have been better off with Dickov in the squad. The Dick once scored 9 prem goals in one season including penalties you know.

I'll admit I forgot that most of Benni's goals last year came from pens. Of course I wouldn't take last years Benni over the 05/06 Bellamy but what kind of comparison is that? You're asking me if I'd take the season just gone from one player for the best ever of another which is hardly fair.

I'm glad you brought up Dickov as Bellamy's best ever back to back seasons (05 to 07) brought 20 goals to Blackburn and Liverpool along with 10 assists. Dickov's best back to back seasons (03 to 05) brought Leicester and Blackburn... 20 goals and 10 assists.

If he had produced a 17 goal season like Forssell then fair enough. If he had the record of James Beatie then certainly but then he had a four year period over 10 goals a season or more, including a stunning 23 in 02/03.

I'm labouring this because I really despise the human being that is Craig Bellamy but the fact is that he had one decent season for us. I hate to see it turned into something it was not.

To shillito15:

Duff and Bellamy are the best attacking players, for us, of the last decade? That is categorically false. Both McCarthy and Santa Cruz have had better seasons that Bellamy. There is no doubt in my mind that a defender would less like to face an 07/08 Santa Cruz or an 06/07 McCarthy than an 05/06 Bellamy.

As an Ireland supporter (albeit as plastic as they come) Duff was a legend to me. Still, Pedersen is as good for us as he was. I know, blasphemy!

Discounting the single game Duff played in 96/97 he had four seasons with us. In those four seasons he scored 21 goals and had 33 assists.

Pedersen has just completed his forth season with us. In this time he has scored 23 goals and laid on 38 assists.

But then again, everything in the past is better than the present isn't it.

[FourLaneBlue]

malk - Just because a player scored more goals than another does not automatically mean they have been a better player for that year...even for strikers. If you cannot see that there are other factors that players bring to a team then why post on here anyway? Just look at the scoring stats and that is that. What about players that create? What about players that cross? What about players that pass? None of that matters in your posts...simply goals scored. There are so many more factors surely? Goals (even if including assists) do of course give a good impression but not necessarily the whole picture.

Players do not...as you suggest...bring goals to the team by themself. Are you suggesting Dickov, for example, started and finished all those goals by himself? If not then relying on goal scoring figures alone is meaningless.

Say what you will...Bellamy was superb for us and player of the season. If Benni was so much better then why did we finish tenth in his "better season" yet 6th with Bellamy?

I´ll tell you why...your logic is flawed. You cannot simply take one part of the season of a football club (goals scored by one player in one season) and extrapolate it to suggest why one player is better than another while ignoring all other relevant stats. It´s an indicative conditional. If A is true then B must be true. Not quite...Bellamy brought much more to the team than goals. I´m not so sure if Benni does most of the time...Especially as plenty of his goals were tap-ins. During that season Bellamy conjured goals out of nothing quite a few times such as his double at Portsmouth. Not to mention his superb work for Pedersen to score the winner against Arsenal at Ewood.

PS - I don´t like Bellamy much either and remember how he lied to us about a transfer clause as well as using the good name of Hughes (as it was then...some seem to suggest otherwise now!) as security to propagate the lie.

[S15]

Malk do you judge everything on statistics?

I have no doubt players would rather play against Santa Cruz/or McCarthy as opposed to a fully fit Bellamy. Absolutely no doubt. People hate playing against pace.

Pedersen as good as Duff? I no longer take anything you say seriously.

[M-K]

He had one decent season for us, when he was only injured for about a third of it. He didn't really want to belittle himself by coming here and he dumped us at the first opportunity.

I can't understand why so many of you seem to be his biggest fans. The guy hated Blackburn Rovers! He is scum.

[FourLaneBlue]

He had one decent season for us, when he was only injured for about a third of it. He didn't really want to belittle himself by coming here and he dumped us at the first opportunity.

I can't understand why so many of you seem to be his biggest fans. The guy hated Blackburn Rovers! He is scum.

True but he was damn good for us in the short time he was here and fit before sacking us off as soon as he could...

[Hasta]

As an Ireland supporter (albeit as plastic as they come) Duff was a legend to me. Still, Pedersen is as good for us as he was. I know, blasphemy!

Quick malk, go outside and see if you can catch your credibility. It's just flown out the window.

[malk]

malk - Just because a player scored more goals than another does not automatically mean they have been a better player for that year...even for strikers. If you cannot see that there are other factors that players bring to a team then why post on here anyway? Just look at the scoring stats and that is that. What about players that create? What about players that cross? What about players that pass? None of that matters in your posts...simply goals scored. There are so many more factors surely? Goals (even if including assists) do of course give a good impression but not necessarily the whole picture.

Players do not...as you suggest...bring goals to the team by themself. Are you suggesting Dickov, for example, started and finished all those goals by himself? If not then relying on goal scoring figures alone is meaningless.

Say what you will...Bellamy was superb for us and player of the season. If Benni was so much better then why did we finish tenth in his "better season" yet 6th with Bellamy?

I´ll tell you why...your logic is flawed. You cannot simply take one part of the season of a football club (goals scored by one player in one season) and extrapolate it to suggest why one player is better than another while ignoring all other relevant stats. It´s an indicative conditional. If A is true then B must be true. Not quite...Bellamy brought much more to the team than goals. I´m not so sure if Benni does most of the time...Especially as plenty of his goals were tap-ins. During that season Bellamy conjured goals out of nothing quite a few times such as his double at Portsmouth. Not to mention his superb work for Pedersen to score the winner against Arsenal at Ewood.

PS - I don´t like Bellamy much either and remember how he lied to us about a transfer clause as well as using the good name of Hughes (as it was then...some seem to suggest otherwise now!) as security to propagate the lie.

I think the crux of our disagreement comes down to my belief that Bellamy didn't bring all that much apart from his goals. He isn't great at holding up the ball and bring other players in to the game that way, he has some ability to get to the wing and pop in a cross but not to a significant effect. His defensive workrate is higher than McCarthy's but his tackling ability from the Paul Scholes school of centre circle fouls he was more bothered, entirely legitimately, with being ready for a fast break.

I fully understand that players bring more to the game than their goals or assists but, given that neither Bellamy or McCarthy had a significant effect on our defense, we scored around the same goals in total both years (53 in 06/07 and 51 in 05/06) so I wouldn't say he brought more to the team than McCarthy did.

I'm stating that Benni had a better season for a striker than Bellamy did but the reason why the team finished higher with Bellamy is because our defense was much better in 05/06 than it was in 06/07, particularly at home. To go back to my beloved stats we conceeded 12 fewer goals in 05/06, a big difference. Now, if you want to argue the change from Bellamy to McCarthy accounts for this then we've got a discussion but I don't think it does.

I haven't really attempted to use a particular logical argument but I'm more than aware that (if A is true then B is true) doesn't entail (if B is true then A is true). If it is raining then the ground outside is wet... true. The ground is wet then it is raining... not so much. I could also go into the the problematic nature of truth conditions using traditional logic but I don't think this is the forum. Plus my brain hurts when it tries to make sense of using truth conditions to satisfy predicate logic and I don't want to dust off my old notes. Looking back at what I've just written, I'm pretty sure it's mostly rubbish and I've used all kinds of the wrong terminology.

I'd point ot McCarthy's cup goal against Arsenal to point to his conjuring ability but it's a cup game and by my own rules I'm not supposed to point to them... bugger.

Apart from all this, I didn't originally intend to compare Bellamy to McCarthy (i think). One thing I really want to make clear is that regardless of how good his season was for us in 05/06, in the rest of his career he has been pretty bobbins apart from the odd, inconsistent, flash of brilliance. At least the jury is still out on McCarthy.

RE Hasta: Pedersen's second season with us was pretty bloody good. Duff was promising in his first year, dissapointing in his second, great in his third and then awesome in his final year (and could have been much better if not for injury). Pedersen was promising in his first, awesome in his second (if not quite as awesome as Duff), great in his third and dissapointing last year (but better than Duff in his second year). The way I see it, Duff built up to a great finish and left on a high whilst Pedersen came out very hot but has cooled a little.

From my fan point of view Pedersen also has another feather in his cap. Next year he could have another great year for us... hopefully.

[krislu]

RE Hasta: Pedersen's second season with us was pretty bloody good. Duff was promising in his first year, dissapointing in his second, great in his third and then awesome in his final year (and could have been much better if not for injury). Pedersen was promising in his first, awesome in his second (if not quite as awesome as Duff), great in his third and dissapointing last year (but better than Duff in his second year). The way I see it, Duff built up to a great finish and left on a high whilst Pedersen came out very hot but has cooled a little.

From my fan point of view Pedersen also has another feather in his cap. Next year he could have another great year for us... hopefully.

Hahaha! Am I really reading a serious attempt to compare MGP to Duff?! This is sooooo out there that you must be drunk or something...

[malk]

Hahaha! Am I really reading a serious attempt to compare MGP to Duff?! This is sooooo out there that you must be drunk or something...

Yes you are. Great retort by the way, you could be a poster child for the rose tinted view of the past society.

[krislu]

Yes you are. Great retort by the way, you could be a poster child for the rose tinted view of the past society.

[Roar of the Rover]

He's at it AGAIN!!

Can't stop can he?

[DeadlyDirk]

He's at it AGAIN!!

Can't stop can he?

He's got himself injured again as well hasn't he!!

His career really has blossomed since he left us.