[Archived] West Ham Fined £5.5m

[philipl]

This is an attempt at explaining what is going on with Joorabchian's companies.

It leaves everything very messy. Is Joorabchian an agent, a fixer, a footballer owner or all three? What is contrary to FE/EPL rules and what contravenes FIFA rules? At what point does basic English contract law intervene? Can the EPL accept the "suspension" of a contract by one side and the other side going along with the charade as the basis of accepting Tevez' continued playing whilst everyone involved recognises the underlying reality under English law still exists? A reality which would cause suspension of the registration.

South American ownership of players by independent companies has been going on for years- with the sanction of FIFA. It seems to have held back the development of South American club football and siphoned off pretty well all the economic benefits of transfers to Europe to the player owners. Doesn't seem to be doing the development of South American football any good at all.

[broadsword]

Why they just didn't dock points straight away is totally beyond me.

Because they have no balls.

[thenodrog]

The odious Paddy Crerand is hardly the man to comment, but this article speaks volumes about the scandalous state of football over the years and the cost of leniency toward the big clubs by the authorities.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsle...2084139,00.html

Not often I say this but ............... C'mon Livvy!

[neekoy]

The odious Paddy Crerand is hardly the man to comment, but this article speaks volumes about the scandalous state of football over the years and the cost of leniency toward the big clubs by the authorities.

Not often I say this but ............... C'mon Livvy!

That is right though Drog, he is hardly a man to comment, I guess in his opinion if Milan weren't there United would be in the final.

I don't see how this surprises anyone though, the only difference between today's game and when the ball was kicked down a pebble stone road is the amount of coverage through investigative reporting.

While there is money to be made on results we will always see this

[philipl]

Fulham and Wigan have both written to the EPL again saying answers received on West Ham were unsatisactory and saying they are joining with Sheff U in legal action.

[den]

Fulham and Wigan have both written to the EPL again saying answers received on West Ham were unsatisactory and saying they are joining with Sheff U in legal action.

Good. They deserve a full and frank explanation.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Good. They deserve a full and frank explanation.

Den they have alerady had a Frank explanation - a Frank Sidebottom one!!

[philipl]

I thought this one was dying after an initial bout of angst but the reports today would suggest that a lot is happening behind the scenes. The case is that the EPL Commission which punished West Ham clearly allowed irrelevant considerations to influence the judgement (timing, fans of West Ham) but did not consider relevant aspects (some of the logical questions re Joorbachian's contract and if West Ham fans are relevant, the fans of other teams who suffered as a result of West Ham's actions).

It looks like it will dominate the EPL AGM which is a pity as the EPL were to decide on a more level distribution of income for participation in the EPL.

[thenodrog]

It looks like it will dominate the EPL AGM which is a pity as the EPL were to decide on a more level distribution of income for participation in the EPL.

That might be a good thing.

[philipl]

Seems likely that Sheff U will be forcibly expelled from the EPL after refusing to give their share back.

I still think nothing will happen to change things but Brighton now asking the FA to investigate Tevez playing against them in the FA Cup 3rd Round game has moved the dispute out of just being an EPL matter.

[thenodrog]

Somebody persaded Brighton to play the role of stalking horse then?

[Eddie]

Looks interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...utd/6716185.stm

[den]

Leaving Wham in the Prem, along with allowing Sheff U to remain, creating a league of 21 teams, is to my view well out of order.

1] I assume at the end of next season 4 teams would be relegated.

2] I assume Wham after spending millions, wouldn't be one of those teams.

3] I wouldn't be too pleased if rovers finished 4th from bottom.

5] If those three points became to be, where would the punishment for Wham be?

[Eddie]

Quite agree. It must also be considered that we have the European Championships next summer and people already complain that our international footballers play too many games without adding two more fixtures to the list.

[philipl]

The EPL is in unchartered waters here. The original judgement included some very sloppy wording which the arbitrators are going to find difficult to support which is probably why Sheff U are so bullish. Fulham are also trying to get themselves included in the arbitration and Wigan are waiting in the wings as well. Then there is the mess that would happen if this went to legal appeal in the UK or to an international sporting court for judgement.

West Ham are probably upsetting a lot of Prem clubs at the moment by not doing their shopping overseas. Everton won't be happy at the report of a £30m Arteta/Johnson bid in preparation, Spurs have Bent and Defoe in the WHam mix, Rovers and Villa will not be over-joyed at the People suggesting the eggman will offer £8m and £70k a week for Bellamy, Chelsea presumably don't want SWP unsettling, Newcastle may or may not be happy to have £7m in place of Scott Parker but are likely to be very miffed if Barton goes to Upton Park as well.

I guess the whole of the Prem could be beginning to see docking West Ham 3 points (which would relegate West Ham) as the line of least resistance in an otherwise very messy situation. West Ham are guilty and have accepted they are- the question is what is the appropriate punishment. I very much doubt any club would be happy to sign up for a 21 club league next season.

[Fife Rover]

The EPL is in unchartered waters here. The original judgement included some very sloppy wording which the arbitrators are going to find difficult to support which is probably why Sheff U are so bullish. Fulham are also trying to get themselves included in the arbitration and Wigan are waiting in the wings as well. Then there is the mess that would happen if this went to legal appeal in the UK or to an international sporting court for judgement.

West Ham are probably upsetting a lot of Prem clubs at the moment by not doing their shopping overseas. Everton won't be happy at the report of a £30m Arteta/Johnson bid in preparation, Spurs have Bent and Defoe in the WHam mix, Rovers and Villa will not be over-joyed at the People suggesting the eggman will offer £8m and £70k a week for Bellamy, Chelsea presumably don't want SWP unsettling, Newcastle may or may not be happy to have £7m in place of Scott Parker but are likely to be very miffed if Barton goes to Upton Park as well.

I guess the whole of the Prem could be beginning to see docking West Ham 3 points (which would relegate West Ham) as the line of least resistance in an otherwise very messy situation. West Ham are guilty and have accepted they are- the question is what is the appropriate punishment. I very much doubt any club would be happy to sign up for a 21 club league next season.

Oh I do hope your analysis is right and comes to pass Philip. As you point out any solution involving WHam not getting a significant points deduction (and thus being relegated) can never be argued to be a just outcome, and should certainly be vigorously opposed by the vast majority of the EPL clubs if only for reasons of self-interest. However, we all know by now that justice and honourable solutions are rarer than hen's teeth in the world of football, so we will wait and see with interest!

[RevidgeBlue]

Leaving Wham in the Prem, along with allowing Sheff U to remain, creating a league of 21 teams, is to my view well out of order.

1] I assume at the end of next season 4 teams would be relegated.

2] I assume Wham after spending millions, wouldn't be one of those teams.

3] I wouldn't be too pleased if rovers finished 4th from bottom.

5] If those three points became to be, where would the punishment for Wham be?

I'd have no problem with that solution, everyone knows where they stand before you start therefore whether you finish in the bottom three with twenty teams or bottom four with twenty one sides you go down.

Not a problem.

Hypothetically if they drafted in another six teams from the Championship and had nine relegation places, I don't think the likeliehood of us going down would increase any.

It's when the rules seemingly aren't applied consistently or the goalposts are shifted as you're going along that the problem occurs as seems to have happened with WHU.

Their punishment? - well it's no different from now - the 5.5m fine. The only club directly affected are Sheffield United although obviously none of the other Prem clubs will want anyone to be able to gain an unfair advantage by cheating in future.

Maybe this is the ideal solution with a tightening up of the regulations needed to stipulate that any future indiscretions will be punishable by a specific points deduction of three, four, six or ten points, whatever it might be.

Edit: I don't think we'll actually see twenty one teams, I suspect the arbitration hearing will sort of dissolve into nothingness and we'll end up exactly the same as we are now.

[tcj_jones]

West Ham will be in the Premiership next season, Sheffield United will be in the Championship. However, that isn't really just.

There is talk of a retrospective 3 point deduction but, in my eyes, a precedent needs to be set and I would hit West Ham with a fine and deduction in the region of 10 points. But we all know that the powers that be don't have the balls. West Ham will fight and delay this all the way until the start of the new season, at which point nothing can really be done.

[philipl]

As I said uncharted waters.

I know what I would do if I were Sheff U and I am pretty certain they will have done their homework extremely thoroughly by the time the Arbitration panel meets including having legal opinions about what the international sports court and an English Court would be likely to do were it to go beyond the arbitration panel to appeal.

Newcastle have woken up to West Ham's move on Barton and have tied releasing Parker to signing Barton first.

Everton must be getting mighty miffed about the news of West Ham offering Johnson £90K a week.

[thenodrog]

Everton must be getting mighty miffed about the news of West Ham offering Johnson £90K a week.

Does anybody consider the lunacy of this madness when Johnson cannot get within a country mile of an England team that started with second div quality Smith and a 5'4" crocked has been? This and the news of the Terry / Lampard contract negotiations beggars belief when one takes into consideration Englands struggle to qualify for the Euro finals from a group that would prob see 2 or 3 of those teams relegated from the Prem!

[Boz]

Yes it is a disgrace that West Ham did not get a 3 point deduction following them pleading guilty to cheating and then lying to the Chief Exec of FAPL. It is still enlightening the lack of clarity that still exists surrounding Tevez's contract and it would be very interesting to see him being transferred to follow exactly who benefits. The FAPL are culpable for the delays in instigating the correct punishment and the confusion that allowed him to play in the last few crucial fixtures.

But sadly all too late now for changing the teams relegated.

However, following the £5.5million fine, is it not fairer that this money should go to the resulting party who have suffered, i.e. Sheff Utd?

[philipl]

Joorbachian might appear for Sheffield United.

You have a complicated agreement which gives you rights over an asset now reported to be worth £30m but a key party unilaterally rips up the agreement saying the regulator is of the opinion the agreement wasn't worth the paper ir was written on because...

So what do you do if you are Joorbachian?

At the very least you threaten to do what he is threatening to do. The problem West Ham have is that any behind the scenes settlement cannot remain behind the scenes under the terms of discovery and Joorbachian cannot possibly trust them to act in his favour after the event as they have already used the powers of football registration to unilaterally act against him once before.

Add into the mix Joorbachian can be absolutely certain to cash in on a Tevez transfer if West Ham are relegated and that is less certain if they remain in the Prem.

A tricky Catch 22 with everybody watching.

[Billy Castell]

It's all so murky and tangled that you just don't know whats going to happen. My guess is it will be too complicated, and the arbitration panel will run away from the situation and Wham will get away with it.

[philipl]

Sheffield United must be feeling pretty good about how the last week has gone- they certainly won the publicity war.

West Ham have declined to participate in the arbitration. If this is anything like the legal arbitration I have been involved in, the arbitrators will be very unimpressed by that.

[RevidgeBlue]

West Ham have declined to participate in the arbitration. If this is anything like the legal arbitration I have been involved in, the arbitrators will be very unimpressed by that.

From West Ham's point of view there's no absolutely reason why they should. As far as they are concerned the matter is closed and they have received their punishment.

I'll be absolutely amazed if anything different occurs as a result of either the June 18th proceedings or any subsequent legal challenge.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love west Ham to go down as much as anyone.