[Archived] West Ham Fined £5.5m

[OscarRaven]

Liverpool should do what's best for Liverpool Football Club and it's fans. If resting players at the weekend helps them in the Champions League final, and they are prepared to risk losing a league placing in order to do that then it is their choice.

Back on topic, should West Ham lose and Wigan/Sheff Utd draw, the West Ham will stop up by the 2 points they gained at Ewood for the 'offside / didnt cross the line ' goal.

It only didn't cross the line because Tevez the troll stopped it! It had beaten every Rovers Player!

Personally I'm glad relegation will be settled on the pitch. West ham vs. Man Utd - 1995 payback?, with Carrick & Ferdinand in the team - doubt it. 1-1.

Sheff U to go down and all the talk by Wigan and Fulham to suddenly go quiet.

[Fife Rover]

In my opinion what SHOULD happen is that ALL the PL clubs (other than WHam obviously) should call an extraordinary general meeting of the EPL and insist on a full cards on the table job to examine the full facts in this whole sorry saga. When they do know they should all decide what needs to be done and who should be relegated. Obviously this meeting should not take place until after the last match of the season has been played. Until then, when the actual relegation issue has been decided at the meeting, the matter should be held in abeyance.

[Hasta]

if thats the case utd could play the same team as last night and stuff wigan/sheff utd,but at least fergie knows the league wether it is the top 4 or bottom 4 is sacralige and is going all out to beat westspam,the chumpions league final was 3 weeks away last weekend,liverpoo are a disgrace

I honestly believe that Fergie is bitter enough to want to send West Ham down as payback for the final day in '95. In his book he says that the effort West Ham put in was 'obscene' as they had nothing to play for.

[Exiled_Rover]

I imagine there will be a live update of the Old Trafford score being passed to Brammal Lane fairly regularly.

I wouldnt be at all surprised to see Wigan score a late winner should the score at Old Trafford be comfortable.

Would be nice.

[Ronin]

Although the way Wigan have been playing lately, it'll probably have to be some bizarre own goal, like the goalie throwing the ball into his own net or something

[BRFC4EVA]

They wouldn't be able to prove it...

My thoughts exactly. It might be screaming 'fix' to everyone in the country, but i dont see how they could possibly prove that so and so diliberatly fell over as opposed to slipping letting heskey through for the winner. It would simply be word vs word

Comon lets send wham down!

[American]

So you want West Ham to stay up do you? Or are you just being pious for the sake of it?

I know I do. Don't see what the big deal is, everyone is blowing the "offense" out of proportion because it's West Ham. Do you want to see Stanley docked points and relegated? They did a similar thing.

[SouthAussieRover]

I honestly believe that Fergie is bitter enough to want to send West Ham down as payback for the final day in '95. In his book he says that the effort West Ham put in was 'obscene' as they had nothing to play for.

For that day alone I hope they stay up

[Scotty]

I know I do. Don't see what the big deal is, everyone is blowing the "offense" out of proportion because it's West Ham. Do you want to see Stanley docked points and relegated? They did a similar thing.

No, they really didn't. Stanley's offence seems to have been a genuine oversight and wasn't anything like as serious. West Ham have admitted they lied about the registration of the two players and, in the Premier League's report, the Premier League as good as admitted that they should have been docked points.

The whole mess stinks and I'm certain that if it was any other club involved in the relegation dogfight apart from West Ham a points deduction would have occured.

[SouthAussieRover]

The whole mess stinks and I'm certain that if it was any other club involved in the relegation dogfight apart from West Ham a points deduction would have occured.

What? Even the likes of Liverpool,Man U,Arsenal etc?

I very much doubt that would be the case.

Yet if it was a team like us you'd probably be right.

[American]

I disagree. Why would an INDEPENDENT panel care? Some people (not singling out either of you) have way to much of a complex about who gets favored and who gets picked on.

As for the rule they broke, how different is what they did from taking a player out on loan?

[stuwilky]

I know I do. Don't see what the big deal is, everyone is blowing the "offense" out of proportion because it's West Ham. Do you want to see Stanley docked points and relegated? They did a similar thing.

When did they lie to the authorities?

[Billy Castell]

It's different, as Tevez and Mascapone were contracted to MSI, not Corinthians, for whom they were playing for. Under Premiership rules, a player can only be bought or loaned between two clubs, and not a club and an employment agency or any other 3rd party. I guess the reasoning is that if the third party was a sporting agency, they'd get money from signing on fees etc. as the players agent as well as an employee, so they'd get more money telling their employee (i.e. the player) to move to clubs X, Y and Z as soon as they can.

So you can see why some are suspicious about this sort of arrangement, as it could be in the agent/employer's financial interest to constantly move the players about.

At least that is how I understand it, but I may be wrong. Employment law is not really a speciality of mine.

[Scotty]

I disagree. Why would an INDEPENDENT panel care? Some people (not singling out either of you) have way to much of a complex about who gets favored and who gets picked on.

As for the rule they broke, how different is what they did from taking a player out on loan?

It is much more beneficial for the Premier League if a big club like West Ham stay up at the expense of a smaller club, such as Wigan, Fulham or Sheffield United. The independance of the panel is a matter of opinion for me.

The report the panel produced stated that they really should have docked West Ham points, but then listed a number of reasons why they didn't. A number of these reasons were invalid e.g. why should a club's fans be considered when making a verdict such as this? I can only conclude that there was a further underlying reason why they didn't dock points - one that I'm not sure would have applied had it been Wigan or Sheffield United in trouble.

The main difference in the cases of West Ham and Accy is that West Ham admitted that the previous board regime had broken the rules, and then the current regime eventually admitted they had lied. They were clearly seeking an advantage by breaking the league's rules, they admitted as much.

Accy's defence all along was that they hadn't realised they'd broken the rules and weren't intentionally seeking to gain an advantage. The commission agreed with them and only punished them over the technicality rather than the intent.

[SouthAussieRover]

It is much more beneficial for the Premier League if a big club like West Ham stay up at the expense of a smaller club, such as Wigan, Fulham or Sheffield United. The independance of the panel is a matter of opinion for me.

From any other club would have points deducted i.e" The whole mess stinks and I'm certain that if it was any other club involved in the relegation dogfight apart from West Ham a points deduction would have occured" to just a small club would have points deducted.

Stick to your original argument Scotty or admit you may be wrong?

[Scotty]

From any other club would have points deducted i.e" The whole mess stinks and I'm certain that if it was any other club involved in the relegation dogfight apart from West Ham a points deduction would have occured" to just a small club would have points deducted.

Stick to your original argument Scotty or admit you may be wrong?

In my earlier post, although I didn't express myself very clearly, I meant any other club currently involved in the relegation dogfight i.e. Wigan, Sheffield Utd, Fulham, Charlton etc. So my argument is perfectly consistent.

[Manchester Blue]

What are you talking about SAR? It is as clear as day that had it been any other club down there then they would have been docked points as they should have. West Ham's about turn has been as a direct result of a player they should never have been playing. Everyone knows this and they have been let off. Justice will only be done if Wigan win by any means necessary and Man U wipe the floor with the cheating cockneys.

[LeChuck]

Edited.

[tonygreenbank]

Interesting scenario on Sunday. News filters through to Brammall Lane that Manu have just beaten West Ham 1-0 with a late goal. Sheff Utd "allow"" a Wigan player to score in injury time to win. Result West Ham go down and 2 of the "Gang of Four" rub their hands satisfied that justice has been done! What would the Eastenders say!!

[Fife Rover]

What are you talking about SAR? It is as clear as day that had it been any other club down there then they would have been docked points as they should have. West Ham's about turn has been as a direct result of a player they should never have been playing. Everyone knows this and they have been let off. Justice will only be done if Wigan win by any means necessary and Man U wipe the floor with the cheating cockneys.

Absolutely! Simple innit!

To all those that are showing perfectly correct concern about the morality of a possible "arrangement" between Sheff U. and Wigan I would say: Yes this would be wrong in the strict sense of rule breaking; but when you are up against a powerful force that is itself breaking many (if not all) of the rules of morality, you have an argument that says is it really wrong to adjust things a little so that the already committed, and much more serious wrong, is thereby corrected?

[Hasta]

Interesting scenario on Sunday. News filters through to Brammall Lane that Manu have just beaten West Ham 1-0 with a late goal. Sheff Utd "allow"" a Wigan player to score in injury time to win. Result West Ham go down and 2 of the "Gang of Four" rub their hands satisfied that justice has been done! What would the Eastenders say!!

This has been touched on above, but I think it will only be considered if United are about 3-0 up against the Hammers.

Imagine if it backfired. Man United are winning 2-0. Sheff Utd let Wigan score. West Ham hit two late goals. Sheff Utd go down

[Billy Castell]

Maybe there can be a fire alarm ringing at around 10 minutes before kickoff at the Sheffield Utd and Wigan game.................

[philipl]

This issue is not going away. It seems the Prem hierarchy have miscalculated in their attempts to difuse it.

Two key points which have puzzled me are highlighted in the following extracts:

'Within around nine or 10 hours of the commission's findings,' the angry executive said, 'Tevez was allowed to play at Wigan because the League says it received a letter or fax from West Ham, saying that [part of the] contract was unenforceable and therefore they've torn it up. We want to see evidence, proof that Tevez was legally able to play on. Look at it this way - no money, apparently, has changed hands for a player who has transformed their season. No money at all. So who owns him? Unless we are shown a bank statement or other proof then are we to believe that someone, out of the goodness of their heart, has given him to West Ham for nothing?'

and:

There are others unhappy. Tottenham, for example, are very vocal about this privately. They can see it becoming just a matter of how big a fine do you need to buy yourselves out - they point to Chelsea, who could pay £15million or more. 'Aston Villa and Middlesbrough are also unhappy with the principle. Scudamore is aware that there are at least seven clubs in this - that's why he's so scared.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Biggest cock up since the Premierleague was formed,would hate to be a fan of either Wigan or Sheff utd today..so much riding on the outcome of the respective games.Can see this going to the High Courts as it all apppears very underhand.

[Roversider]

This issue is not going away. It seems the Prem hierarchy have miscalculated in their attempts to difuse it.

Good points here, it is a worrying aspect of the Premiership that it lets the sordid dealings that surround this float to the surface and do nothing meaningful. We all know that there has been corruption in sport since the Romans held chariot races but as the Premiership survives and flourishes as long as supporters keep paying they really should consider how bad this looks to thier 'customers'. I haven't come across anyone yet (and that includes a few Hammers fans) who feels that a fine was appropriate and that a points deduction should have occurred. £5.5m seems large until you consider the impact of relegation, we lost c. £15m a season when we went down and you can add at least £10m to that for next season. So a fine of 20% (maximum) of what might be lost? Don't make me laugh.

On the way this has been handled there are a number of outcomes I would like to see -

Firstly natural justice, Wigan win, West Ham lose and the Hammers go down.

Secondly, Dave Whelan and the other four clubs involved sue West Ham for damages. I'm not certain that a legal action is good to decide relegation issues. It can become a farce if the law is used to decide a season and would be a bad precedent.

Thirdly, at the League AGM coming up retribution is taken against the stance taken by the panel who came up with this garbage decision. There should, as a minimum, be a clarification of rules and the optional punishment beefed up to include a compulsory points deduction in the same way the Football League deducts 10 points for clubs going into administration (I know Leeds abused that rule this season but the Football League will correct that).

As Neil Warnock pointed out, without a points deduction nothing will impact a club.

Just a thought about the motivation for West Ham, Terry Brown made a fortune out of this corrupt action, West Ham got two World Cup players and their apparent 'owners' MSI got a chance to demonstrate that Tevez and co. were good enough for the Premiership and thus add at least £5m each to their value.

Finally, do Liverpool have any problems given that they have added Mascherano to their line-up? If they win in Athens will AC Milan begin litigation?

Shameful affair.