[Archived] West Ham Fined £5.5m

[Scotty]

If you don't have the common sense to see that match fixing is a worse offence than any West Ham have committed then there is no use trying to explain it.

If that makes me "pious" then so be it.

I've no problem with West Ham staying up. I feel, if possible, seasons should be determined by what happens on the pitch. However it will go onto the courts and if they should be docked the points then it will happen.

And if you don't have the common decency to see that West Ham should have been relegated after what they did then I despair. It sickens me that they stayed up and it sickens me that some of our fans seem to think it's ok.

[Diziet]

You are so right Paul! That is precisely the feeling that I have had for some time now. It seems to me that the EPL and probably the whole of "top tier" football worldwide is heading for becoming one big money making scam from a supporters point of view. There is already far too much involvement of big money and media manipulation. All the small clubs are regarded as sacrificial victims for the big teams to beat on their way to winning everything worth winning in the game. This has been the case in Scotland for years with Rangers and Celtic winning everything...

What really saddened me this evening was listening to the commentary on the relegation games on MOTD. Constant mention of money ("Is that the clearance that has saved his club £30M?" etc etc bloody etc) and not a single word about relegation as a question of professional or civic pride, disappointment, a statement about not being good enough, etc. It's obvious to the Sheff Utd fans that relegation hits you in the heart and guts but according to the media and FA it only hits you in the wallet. Sad and cynical stuff.

As for the WHU thing, the real problem is the fatal damage to the FA's role as compliance officer/regulator. The FA is very fond of convening quasi-legal committees and bodies to deal with its various regulatory and disciplinary roles but it seems to forget it is not actually a court (and the WHU judgment is just a piece of pure ineptitude in its "reasoning"). If nobody involved in the game has any confidence in the FA to regulate its rules, the rules themselves are useless. Clubs ought not to be going to the courts with this type of dispute but at least the courts will be seen to have some independence and integrity.

If the FA doesn't quickly recover some of its integrity then the game will eventually be the loser. We're not all the dumb mugs forking over for our replica shirts that they seem to beliieve. Fife Rover is spot on about Scottish football which is dying on its arse (and I have been going to games up here for 25 years). It might take longer for the English game to die, but it will happen unless the fans somehow reclaim it. I wish I knew how...

[Paul]

They'll get away with it, the only thing I can see happening is the fine being increased. The problem will be that if they did relegate West Ham they would most certainly appeal which would mean this process would take ages and the start of the season would have to be delayed, which isn't possible. A further fine is the only viable option, but it isn't a fair one. They deserve to go down.

Sure you're right there. The only other possibility being a points deduction for next season; a solution which might satisfy the majority. The PL / FA could argue they got it wrong, listened and put it right etc. etc. Someone would have a quiet word with WHU suggesting they take it on the chin. The long-lasting damage has been done though. The next club to find itself in a similar situation, i.e facing a points deduction, needs only to prevaricate until near the end of the season and no points deduction will take place for fear of relegating them.

[philipl]

Excellent points Diziet.

It seems that things are moving quickly. The Gang of Four have been advised to make their legal move immediately if they are going to act whilst Tevez himself is on the verge of a £25m move to Real Madrid having snubbed Chelsea. Quite how Joorbachian's company receive their money with West Ham having ripped up the contract will be interesting.

The FA has been living in a world removed from the realities of life for a while now. McLaren is a wholly avoidable embarassment and drag on the national game, the continued botching of reforms and now this complete failure.

The worst possible outcome would be for the FA and West Ham to get away wounded with a precedent set that is widely perceived as biased, unpopular and totally confusing. Now the season has ended, some of the considerations which should not have impinged on the FA's thinking (the risk of Chelsea claiming unfairness had the Premiership decider been a Man U v West Ham game with West Ham effectively relegated by the FA points deduction) are now theoretical irrelevances and a Court can look at the West Ham issue on its own merits in a way that the FA clearly failed to do so.

If the legal action is taken directly against West Ham, the powers of discovery will bring all the West Ham paperwork open for examination. The Courts will presumably take the Boro precedent more seriously than the FA did themselves.

West Ham obviously see themselves as on a potential loser as they are muttering about Benitez's selection for Liverpool at Fulham. Sheff U in turn have commented on the absence of Scholes, Giggs and Ronaldo from the start yesterday. Judging by recent results, it helps to have Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea in your fixture list right at the season end.

[neekoy]

Sure you're right there. The only other possibility being a points deduction for next season; a solution which might satisfy the majority. The PL / FA could argue they got it wrong, listened and put it right etc. etc. Someone would have a quiet word with WHU suggesting they take it on the chin. The long-lasting damage has been done though. The next club to find itself in a similar situation, i.e facing a points deduction, needs only to prevaricate until near the end of the season and no points deduction will take place for fear of relegating them.

Especially if the basis for the fine is based off the ludicrous idea of how much you paid in the transfer of said players.

Even we could afford to field a couple of illegals with Sparky's buying record

Idea: West Ham 5 or 6 world class players from some poor South American nation for nothing with the written promise of some form of second hand 'fee' if we make the top 4!! No transfer fee paid, no fine!!

[FourLaneBlue]

And if you don't have the common decency to see that West Ham should have been relegated after what they did then I despair. It sickens me that they stayed up and it sickens me that some of our fans seem to think it's ok.

I said that match-fixing is even worse. It obviously is ten times worse. Two wrongs don't make a right. I didn't say it was "ok" as such but whatever punishment they receive should come through the legal process rather than a pre-arranged stitch-up between two other sides.

As for "common decency", "despair" and "sickens" it seems you could try getting a bit of perspective. Had a few drinks by any chance had you last night?

[broadsword]

I think match-fixing would be a bit of rough-justice to even things up, since the FA are spineless inept time-servers who don't have teh guts to give West Ham the punishment they deserve.

If they hadn't had Tevez for the last few months (or weeks even) then they'd have been relegated.

[Billy Castell]

Is Tevez still working for that glorified employment agency MSI?

What is amazing is the length of time it took to decide he did come from a 3rd party (who had a senior director trying to buy Wham) when it was common knowledge as the deals went through. The whole thing stinks and suggests that a few members of the Premier League board have new cars and holiday homes.............

[AndyC]

What really saddened me this evening was listening to the commentary on the relegation games on MOTD. Constant mention of money ("Is that the clearance that has saved his club £30M?" etc etc bloody etc) and not a single word about relegation as a question of professional or civic pride, disappointment, a statement about not being good enough, etc. It's obvious to the Sheff Utd fans that relegation hits you in the heart and guts but according to the media and FA it only hits you in the wallet. Sad and cynical stuff.

As for the WHU thing, the real problem is the fatal damage to the FA's role as compliance officer/regulator. The FA is very fond of convening quasi-legal committees and bodies to deal with its various regulatory and disciplinary roles but it seems to forget it is not actually a court (and the WHU judgment is just a piece of pure ineptitude in its "reasoning"). If nobody involved in the game has any confidence in the FA to regulate its rules, the rules themselves are useless. Clubs ought not to be going to the courts with this type of dispute but at least the courts will be seen to have some independence and integrity.

If the FA doesn't quickly recover some of its integrity then the game will eventually be the loser. We're not all the dumb mugs forking over for our replica shirts that they seem to beliieve. Fife Rover is spot on about Scottish football which is dying on its arse (and I have been going to games up here for 25 years). It might take longer for the English game to die, but it will happen unless the fans somehow reclaim it. I wish I knew how...

It's nothing to do with the F.A. compliance / regulator

The premier League is governed by the Premier League - not the F.A. The premier league is just a governing body that is set up to serve the interests of the 20 members of the league - i.e. the clubs.

[Billy Castell]

Well it served the interest of one club very well indeed! Giving a billionaire a £5.5m fine is pathetic. Wham should go down, and the ugly dwarf and Mascapone should be sent back to South America. By being so lenient, it'll encourage shady people like MSI, that Israeli 'super agent', Israeli arms dealers etc. to further corrupt the game and turn it into something as tedious and shallow as the Oscars. This whole episode shouts out either incompetence or blatant corruption.

If there is any course of action Sheffield United can take in the courts, they should take it.

[Eddie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...rem/6652931.stm

Things getting going, very interesting to see Ferguson's comments towards the end (sorry if this has been posted).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...rem/6638575.stm

An interesting summary of the situation (again apologies if it has already been posted).

[youandwhosearmy]

If West Ham had got the fine and then Tevez was not allowed to play, then i would have been fine with that and im sure most of the Premier league would have also. However its the fact that he continued playing which confuses me. West Ham claim they destroyed their agreement with MSI or whatever they are called. But surely they could not do this without completely owning Tevez (in a strictly football manner). West Ham do not own Tevez, and that has to be the main point. When he eventually leaves for 25 million, you can bet your ass that West Ham wont get it, it will ultimately go to MSI.

[Cocker]

I think they have a right to fight this - go on lads, give em hell.

[Plastic Head]

I don't think fans of any other Premiership clubs think WHU should be in the Premier League next season, a point made by both sets of fans booing the scores yesterday.

Perhaps fans should lobby their own clubs to refuse to play them next season....the would give them a problem....

[Plastic Head]

If we are in relegation trouble next season I look forward to seeing an array of illegally signed International Stars playing for Rovers in the last 8 games to keep us up.

We'll pay the£5.5M and keep the £35M thanks....

[waggy]

gutted that sheff utd have been relagated instead off westspam,what the premier league must do,and i say MUST DO,is to introduce a point reduction to teams playing weakened teams.in reality foolham should have gone this season,except for liverpoo playing a weakened team last week,then after all his shouting in the press fergie put ronaldo,giigs and scholes on the bench for the westspam game.

it showed on motd last night,utd players backing out off tackles etc,i just feel something must be done.no team should be allowed to make over 4 changes from there last game,due to resting them,ok there will be some clubs with injurys/suspensions etc,but resting players is giving some teams a advantage.SORT IT OUT

[Billy Castell]

So how will youth players get a chance if the 16 players largely stay the same? And won't there be a lot of bouts of flu going round a team just before a big cup game? And not every player can keep running like Stevie G for 60 games.

[SouthAussieRover]

Are the PL doing anything about the Tim Howard arrangement between ManUre and Everton?

Sorry Scotty but I'm glad West Ham stayed up.

[joey_big_nose]

Are the PL doing anything about the Tim Howard arrangement between ManUre and Everton?

Sorry Scotty but I'm glad West Ham stayed up.

Im not sure from Rover's perspective that it is such a good thing. West Ham will be another club with a decent set of players (they have performed appallingly this season but they have quality if Curbishley can whip them into shape) and a huge transfer budget. I would imagine Tevez will go but, providing they aren't stung too heavily by a legal agreement, someone like Darren Bent or Defoe will come in along with other big names.

Hughes is a great manager but we need things to swing our way a bit if we are to compete. West Ham suffering for this works in our favour.

[T4E]

And if you don't have the common decency to see that West Ham should have been relegated after what they did then I despair. It sickens me that they stayed up and it sickens me that some of our fans seem to think it's ok.

Flaming 'eck ya great big drama queen! I'm with you in thinking that West ham have cheated their way out of relegation, but surely you've just got to accept other folks right to think differently?

The quote above isnt your usual handwriting as far as I'm concerned.

[OJRovers]

Is it right that the 4 clubs are now saying that in ripping up that agreement the other week, West Ham effectively traded outside the transfer window - which surely is not allowed?

[American]

I think in certain situations it is. They allowed the Howard to Everton permanent deal to be signed in February.

[LeChuck]

I think in certain situations it is. They allowed the Howard to Everton permanent deal to be signed in February.

Wasn't that signed as a pre-contract though? i.e. Howard won't be a full Everton player until July 1st. I'm sure he was still considered a loan player until the end of the season, isn't that why he couldn't play against Man Utd?

[Scotty]

I said that match-fixing is even worse. It obviously is ten times worse. Two wrongs don't make a right. I didn't say it was "ok" as such but whatever punishment they receive should come through the legal process rather than a pre-arranged stitch-up between two other sides.

As for "common decency", "despair" and "sickens" it seems you could try getting a bit of perspective. Had a few drinks by any chance had you last night?

I may have been a little "tired and emotional" last night I admit.

Although I do struggle to understand why any of our supporters would be happy at West Ham staying up. As far as I'm concerned it's just the Premier League shafting the little clubs again in favour of a bigger club. Who's to say it won't be Rovers who are on the receiving end of a farciacal decision by the powers that be next time.

[Manchester Blue]

From a selfish point of view i'm amazed anyone wanted West Ham to stay up. They will be much stronger next season and will be challenging for Europe at least. I'm pretty certain Sheff utd wouldn't be pipping us for Uefa next year but imagine if West Ham do.