[Archived] Summer Transfer Window

[philipl]

For clarification, I was suggesting that West Ham will struggle (not go down) if they stop spending today. The players and Manager they have are not the peopleyou'd want in the side in a relegation scrap with the one man show Tevez gone.

However, if they avoid a seconfd disciplinary charge from the FAPL, they are going to continue spending so this is an academic discussion.

As for the stupid post by the drog, I've designed enough incentive schemes to know that you align the scheme with the objectives of the business. Flogging off your best players so the management boost their share of the trading account is manifestly not aligned with winning anything on the football pitch.

So its back to the bus depot for 'drog on this one.

[Eddie]

You wouldn't want Curbishley in charge of a struggling side? He's pretty much the best candidate there is for that sort of job in the premiership. Personally I don't think they'll struggle, but I don't know where you are all getting this "bad manager" stuff from.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Are we talking about the same manager that kept a very poor Charlton side up for years? , mostly with top half finishes. When he left they got relegated with 3 managers inside 6 months. Curbishly is top manager , as much as I dislikw Wham they will do ok, any side with Bellamy, Ashton, Parker & Ljungberg ( not to mention some very good youngsters) will finish top half

[philipl]

You are forgetting that Curbishly Charlton seasons were all about bright starts and falling apart in the second half.

[American]

Your also forgetting that they were about survival with their budget and went down the season he left the club....

[Bazzanotsogreat]

You are forgetting that Curbishly Charlton seasons were all about bright starts and falling apart in the second half.

Look pip Charlton came from a position of having no ground , lurking around the lower leagues until churlishly brought them in the Premier league and kept them there all of which he did on a shoe-string. Season in season out personnel-wise they had amongst the poorest squads yet were usually mid-table. So what if they tailed off towards the end of the season ( the actual fact they stared of well was a credit to the manager as he had very little resources to play with, most of which he generated from the sale of his better players). Its better being mid-table side who falls away at the end of the season then relegated , look at them now they’ll be playing the might of the fizzy pop league at turd moor.

Lets face facts as much as mush as everyone hates West Ham, they have good manager and have made some good signings and will do okay the season. ( I personally believe they should have been relegated due to their obvious corruption , however the premier don’t want to see the London media darlings go down in favour of an unfashionable London club)

[FourLaneBlue]

West Ham are likely to finish top half. They may have paid over-the-top odds but they have brought in some quality. Even their position last season was not indicative of the quality of their squad.

[daren]

Except that real life isn't Football Manager (or even Championship Manager). These players will take time to get to know each other, take time to start playing well together, take time to settle in, and any clashes in personalities will take time to come out. Look for a slow start, getting better after Christmas.

[Ronin]

Look for a slow start, getting better after Christmas.

Sounds familiar

[daren]

Sounds familiar

Doesn't it just! But in fairness, last season we had a completely new strikeforce AND central defensive partnership and look how long that took to get going! (Benni's success was contributed to by a settled midfield). That's not unusual, and it's why most teams prefer incremental changes and it's also why Man City and WHU probably won't do all that well this season, no matter who they bring in - simply put, they're trying to change too much. And look at Liverpool! How many changes there? Certainly a whole boatload of players out and players in...it can't do much for the team. Will it improve them, or just unsettle a team not known for being settled anyway? The point is, that even if on paper WHU and Citeh have made great acquisitions, it takes time for the "squad to gel", to use a Sky phrase.

So I'm not overly concerned about them, and I'm pleased that we haven't blown a wadge of cash on some mediocre player. No panic buying at Ewood. Let the doomsayers off - I think that with our competitive start to the season (in the intertoto) and with players coming back from injury and hopefully with another recruit or two we should be well positioned to have a decent start to this season and relocate the consistency that we had the year before last.

[Ronin]

Too right. Here's hoping.

[LeChuck]

I think Portsmouth could possible be an exception to your rule there Daren. They've made so many changes since Redknapp saved them from relegation 18 months or so ago, and they were excellent last season. Unless we invest this summer I can't see us finishing above them this time round either.

I know West Ham have made a lot of signings, but I don't think that'll be a problem to them as I can see Parker, Ljungberg and Bellamy slotting into the side with a minimum of fuss. I think they've got the makings of an excellent team at the moment, a partnership of Ashton and Bellamy looks very strong in particular, they seem like they could compliment each other perfectly. Parker will give them drive and stability that the egotistic Reo-Coker couldn't provide, and Noble alongside him looks a real prospect. Again, without a quality striker, I think we'll finish behind them also.

I can't remember the last time I felt as underwhelmed in the run up to a new season as this one. I'm not for one minute suggesting we blow money for the sake of it, but there is little to get excited about at the moment...and somehow, seeing Reid, Savage and Ooijer in a Rovers shirt (again ) just isn't enough. As others have mentioned, as things stand I think a 9-12th finish is the best we can hope for at present.

[Pinch]

"I can't remember the last time I felt as underwhelmed in the run up to a new season as this one. I'm not for one minute suggesting we blow money for the sake of it, but there is little to get excited about at the moment...and somehow, seeing Reid, Savage and Ooijer in a Rovers shirt (again ) just isn't enough. As others have mentioned, as things stand I think a 9-12th finish is the best we can hope for at present."

WC, I respect your analysis, but it is defs. a little pessimistic. I mean, I've also heard the pipedreams of us finishing as high as fifth...which would be a remarkable acheivment. I am inclined to believe that we'll finish in the top half. I'm not overwhelmed by our summer signings, but I expect our last year's January signings (Samba, Warnock, Dunn) to give a little more this year. Roberts should contribute from the start this year, and I can't wait to get a better look at Ritgers...maybe I'm just an optimist.

[LeChuck]

I'll fully admit to being a pessimist, although I thought that was mandatory for being a Rovers fan.

[Pinch]

I'll fully admit to being a pessimist, although I thought that was mandatory for being a Rovers fan.

True, True....I guess I'm revelling in our European conquest of that Lithuanian superpower. Also, it makes the stomach turn to think of losing to the Hammers again this year, doesnt' it?

[waynebrfc85]

evening, i dont normally feel compelled to write on this forum but im gettin fed of reading certain posts supporting the lack of ambition, unfortunatly these people knockiing west ham maybe just jealous because i for one wish we were signing players like ljungberg, parker, faubert.

i can honestly say we will struggle next season, teams all around us signing players to improve there squads..fulham, portsmouth, man city. why the hell do we get linked with players like zamora, surely these people defending MH for not spending £7m on one player must realise that from now on the only way is down unless we spend like these other teams.

[thenodrog]

As for the stupid post by the drog, I've designed enough incentive schemes to know that you align the scheme with the objectives of the business. Flogging off your best players so the management boost their share of the trading account is manifestly not aligned with winning anything on the football pitch.

So its back to the bus depot for 'drog on this one.

You're going bloody addled. You must have the memory retention span of a bloody goldfish. "Flogging off our best players" is what we do Philip! We're rather good at it in fact we've done it consistently well since 1962! Unfortunately we have no choice in the matter, we are a small unfashionable club. Full stop. We couldn't keep hold of players when Jack Walkers chequebook was flapping faster than a wannabee wags chuff so the chances of doing so now are equal to the square root of sweet FA. It's sad but on the other hand very character building for the younger fans. They all get used to it eventually

In the past we have had managers that cannot find adequate replacements at all never mind do it cheaply and promptly. Hughes is absolutely key in that he can! He must be ring fenced asap so that only a really top shelf offer can tempt him away.

As for 'designing incentive schemes', I'd imagine the requirements and demands of a Premier league manager and his team who trade and manage a budget of millions and hold massive responsibility to thousands in extreme pressure situations have as much in common to those of some pasty faced, limp wristed conductor and his pricipal flautist as you have to err.... Windsor Davies.

[Pugg]

evening, i dont normally feel compelled to write on this forum but im gettin fed of reading certain posts supporting the lack of ambition, unfortunatly these people knockiing west ham maybe just jealous because i for one wish we were signing players like ljungberg, parker, faubert.

i can honestly say we will struggle next season, teams all around us signing players to improve there squads..fulham, portsmouth, man city. why the hell do we get linked with players like zamora, surely these people defending MH for not spending £7m on one player must realise that from now on the only way is down unless we spend like these other teams.

I think people are defending MH because people are spending silly money, yes I'd rather us spend money on a world class player, but not on the likes of Chopra. I don't want to spend like other teams, it's not what you spend, it's who you spend it on. Are some people just looking at the figures being spent without looking at who it is being spent on? The key for Rovers this season is keeping our key players. At the end of last season everyone was saying Bentley, Gamst and Benni would likely be on their way. If they had left (yes I know there is still time) and we replaced them with three new players would you be happy because we had finally spent some money? Or would you prefer it if we kept those players, maybe picked up a gem here and there (hopefully Rigters) and then splashed out on someone who was worth the money and not some over-rated championship player/foreign non entity.

I don't think anyone is supporting 'lack of ambition'. That is a total misunderstanding. I, for one, trust MH and his judgment. If he believes that the people being sold aren't worth the price tags and wouldn't improve his starting eleven/fit in with how we play, then good for him. I mean come on, has the window closed or is there weeks left? Has MH said he has no money? Has he said he is actively looking for more players or is he just sitting on his hands? I don't think we have the money to be splashing millions on players who are past their best and coming towards the end of their careers. I don't see the point in any comments, negative or positive, about our transfer activity until the window has closed. Sometimes I think people have the mentality of 'I want something, anything, and I want it now'.

[Rainmaker]

I can't believe that when Rovers are struggling to keep hold of our best players you actually want to give an incentive for the manager to sell them.

That's a serious step backwards.

[Lathund]

I guess I'm more of a believer in having a settled squad than most of you, as I'm feeling rather optimistic about the upcoming season. My optimistic I don't mean necessarily challenging for the top four, but I honestly think we're in a better position now than we were this time last season.

For example, last season we conceded quite a lot of soft goals, which is something I think we'll see less of this season. For the first half of last season we had a midfielder getting used to playing right back, a right back playing left back, a new arrival who took a couple of months to settle and a rather sluggish set of central defenders (Henchoz, Todd). For the second half we had two new arrivals and a guy coming back from a 7 month injury playing alongside the midfielder-turned-defender. They can only improve as they gel. Ask Dixon/Keown/Bould/Adams/Winterburn, or how about Tassotti/Baresi/Costacurta/Maldini, if that has an effect.

I'd also like to see another striker, but like I said regarding the defense, we're still in a better position now than last year even if one doesn't arrive.

Most of the signings made so far by the clubs we'll be competing with for UEFA Cup qualification wouldn't have improved our team (There are a couple of exceptions though), and so I rather think "I'm glad we didn't spend £5m on a player who's barely, if at all, an improvement" than "Lack of ambition!!!". Not paying over the odds is also very very important. Taking some more time to negotiate a good deal for a player means that we might have £1m extra for the next signing, or for wages/debt/ground maintenance/whatever, as opposed to if we had finished the deal on July 1st to "show ambition".

I know a lot of you disagree with me, but I think I'll be proven right in May . Rovers will finish 6th or 7th this season, and qualify for the UEFA Cup through either the league or a cup, but I know we will qualify. And that's something we'll do with or without a new striker. Feel free to bookmark or otherwise save that quote in the hopes of making me look silly when the season ends.

[thenodrog]

I can't believe that when Rovers are struggling to keep hold of our best players you actually want to give an incentive for the manager to sell them.

That's a serious step backwards.

Not if the manager finds a better one!

We've just had a long thread on who is the better Bellamy or McCarthy remember. Loads of sackcloth and ashes last summer gnashing of teeth etc yet along comes McCarthy and ends up with 23 goals! Remember also that last Christmas opinion was very divided on MGP, last close season Pompey nearly gave us £4m for an injured player who missed most of the season (and prob 25% of his contract) and had cost us nothing..... and Hughes found Samba and Oijer for a fraction of that price.

Any related bonus would obviously have to contain certain restrictions and also performance related incentives too.

Better rainmaker to lose our best player than our best manager. We have a huge asset that we need to keep.

[Rainmaker]

Do you really believe that Hughes et al would stay at Ewood just to make a few bucks for himself by flogging players back and forth? Seriously?

With your strategy I'm sure Rovers would be a 12-17th placed team, if not relegation fodder each season. Imagine us just picking up Franny Jeffers types on a free transfer, and flogging them to Ipswich the next year for 500K-1M.

It would pretty much ensure that players would not be brouth in unless they were budget, as the manager would most likely not make a profit of the most of those that aren't.

There is nothing in that provides for the club. To turn a profit on a player has very little with that player performing. Normally priced players will almost always be sold for more than the were bought for (contract issues and payer power aside).

Basically a manager on that deal just has to ensure that he does enough not to be sacked, i.e. stays in the PL, and peddle deadwood back and forth.

[thenodrog]

Do you really believe that Hughes et al would stay at Ewood just to make a few bucks for himself by flogging players back and forth? Seriously?

With your strategy I'm sure Rovers would be a 12-17th placed team, if not relegation fodder each season. Imagine us just picking up Franny Jeffers types on a free transfer, and flogging them to Ipswich the next year for 500K-1M.

It would pretty much ensure that players would not be brouth in unless they were budget, as the manager would most likely not make a profit of the most of those that aren't.

There is nothing in that provides for the club. To turn a profit on a player has very little with that player performing. Normally priced players will almost always be sold for more than the were bought for (contract issues and payer power aside).

Basically a manager on that deal just has to ensure that he does enough not to be sacked, i.e. stays in the PL, and peddle deadwood back and forth.

I guess you are right rainmaker. So sod it then....... We'll just have to say bye bye to Hughes and his team within the next 12 months as well as bye bye to the likes of Benni, Bentley, MGP etc. whilst greeting the new manager and his Blake, Ward, Dailly quality inputs until mercifully relegations place us back where we belong..... A perennial yo-yo club between the championship and the 1st div.

[LeChuck]

As usual when you come up with these unusual ideas theno, you fail to answer any direct questions.

Do you think throwing Hughes and co. and a few quid from each player sale will keep him at the club longer? Honestly?

Why oh why you think there should be any conflict of interest between what's best for the club and what's best for the managers pocket is beyond me. Hughes is a highly ambitious man, the way to keep him at this club longer is to give him money to spend in the transfer market, not money to put in his pockets. If it ever comes down to who can pay him the most, we'd lose handsomely to at least half of the clubs in the same division as us, 'commission' or not.

[Rainmaker]

Even with all your sarcasm I see no solid argument for that scenario. Nor do I see any solid argument as to how your "master plan" will bring Rovers forward. At the best we then will be at a standstill, as I see it.

I get the feeling that your whole argument for this kind of "pay structure" is based on a shed load of assumtions.

And you know what they say about assumtions. Assumtions is the mother of all eff ups.

Why would MH stay for the his cut of transfers? Do you think the man has no ambition outside of mammon?

A lot of fans seem to be concerned that foreign investors will slaughter the club for profits. What would stop any manager from doing exactly that under your system, and then bugger of to another club or retire?

Again i wish to stress the fact that making a profit on a player does not mean that said player has performed. Why, oh why do you assume that this system will supply performing players?

As of now the Rovers management has little or nothing to gain from selling our best players, as replacements are noe easy to find. And require a little luck. Remember Benni was second choice last summer. As of now selling, say Benni or MGP, would serve the managment nothing but a headache in terms of finding the replacement.

With your system, they might as well think, "10M?Wow that means £XXX for me, might as well flog him now before his form drops or he gets injured." Then you have them taking the easy way out in terms of getting new players. "Hm, shall i get Franny Jeffers on a free, sign a 5 year deal, or get this untried in the PL South African, Big Mac-fella for 3M on a two year deal. Better go for the safe option. Franny it is."

You see if Jeffers flops, we'll get 500K-1M for him, money for the management, see the Ipswich-saga, if the Big Mac fails we are gone find it hard to make money on him, as will the management.