[Archived] The Blackburn Rovers Academy

[oozy]

Having just read that Ciaran Donnelly had been released by Blackpool, I decided to search for him on the internet to see what he had done since he'd left Blackburn, and I came across this article from late 2002

http://www.thefa.com/England/U19s/NewsAndF...02/11/29799.htm

What came to my attention was the amount of familiar names in the 16 that day:

13 Lee Camp

2 Justin Hoyte

5 Pablo Mills

6 Liam Ridgewell

3 Marcel McKie

8 John Welsh

4 Ciaran Donnelly

7 Lee Croft

10 David Bentley

9 Edward Johnson

15 Jerome Watts

Subs:

1 Luke Steele

12 Matthew Gardner

14 Steven Schumacher

11 Anthony McNamee

16 Peter Whittingham

17 Matthew Kilgallon

18 Tommy Wright

From the evidence of this match, and other U19 match reports around that date, it was obvious that Ciaran Donnelly was the pick of the bunch. However, looking at that team, almost all of the 16 have gone on to play either Premiership or Championship football.

The only ones that havn't are mackie, johnson, watt and donnelly. Two of those are from the Blackburn academy. Is that a coincidence? I tend to think not so. It's obvious we don't have trouble spotting the talent and getting it into the club. But all our academy players seem to fail at the final hurdle.

Why is that? Even if you look at the current crop, they've stagnated(Gallacher, Peter, Mcevely to name but a few). Is it the coaches? the infrastructure? Im wondering if anyone can pour any light on it for me.....

Is it really worth it having an acadamy that has such a poor track record. Surely its only going to be time before youngsters realise that if they want to make it in professional football, Rovers are not the club to come to.

[revolutionrock!]

the past few years since Dunn and duff etc its not come on aswell as it could have but now with derbs and peter coming through its starting to show promise again. Ive seen j garner play and he looks brill and i just hope that hughes gives him and other kids a chance, de vita and nolan and treacy to name a few. fingers crossed he will.

[daren]

Difficult one. Just to note that Jay'll be playing in the premiership next season with Derby, and had a pretty good season with them since he moved. Fair play to the lad. Does it depend on the first team manager giving them their chance? Reserve football is essentially a death knell for a player beyond a certain point, and some of those lads didn't do great on loan. Obviously not considered worth the risk, or didn't fit into a managers system. It's hard to get right, but the structures seem to be in place at rovers to get them to a certain point. We just have to figure out the final step!

[Guest shoppybrfc]

For the people that actually saw Donnelly, what did people think of the player? Wasnt he one of the highest rated youngsters during Souness's reign? even more so than Danns, who hasnt done too bad.

Donnellys time since leaving Rovers has been terrible, during his time at Blackpool hes gone on loan to conference side side Southport, and more recently Donnelly went on loan to Macclesfield in late March to the end of the season, and did not even get in the first 16 once. Its sad to see a once highly thought of young Rovers player on a downward spiral

[philipl]

The curse of rover6.

When he champions a player they fall apart. When he rubbishes a player, they come good- he is still having a pop at Mokoena on his tag line.

As things stand, Bentley of that lot is the one in the England squad. So we got rid of our trainees and picked up the best of Arsenal's England crop (although I think Hoyte will be very good)!

Being serious, you cannot take a single u-19 England squad and pontificate one way or the other about how good the Rovers' Academy is. At the moment I would say Rovers are mid-range in achievement from that source.

As Prem players spiral upwards in transfer costs, even a moderately productive Academy is going to look vewry good value in the coming next few years. I get the impression that there are talents currently at the Academy the club is genuinely very excited about. Most of them non-English.

[ihateburnley]

The sale of Damien Duff paid for the Academy nearly twice over.

If you're looking for a Duff or a Dunn, then these players don't come along very often - and like Hughes has said, every Premiership game is so vital from a financial point of view these days that it makes the risk of throwing a young player in a lot higher.

[rover6]

The curse of rover6.

When he champions a player they fall apart. When he rubbishes a player, they come good- he is still having a pop at Mokoena on his tag line.

Phil, did I ever to you how much I rate your game...?

If you look at that England U19 line-up, I'm pretty sure that the majority named very soon went on to get first team games - be it on loan or with their clubs - if they hadn't already. Amongst the exceptions are Donnelly and Watt.

I'm still of the belief that had Ciaran Donnelly come in to fill the left wing berth and not Jon Douglas when we were sinking like Lorenzo Amoruso on a muddy pitch, Donnelly would be playing League One/Champ football at the least right now.

Why do I say that? It is only a hypothesis but the confidence boost that young players must get when he's given the nod to play in the first team and then when he scores his first goal or assist and feels a genuine and deserving part of the team is something that must not be underestimated. Imo, that confidence boost can make or break a player. Certain youngsters are so good or so confident that they are ready for Prem football from day one. The most aren't and need to be nurtured by exposure to Prem football. I seriously doubt that Douglas would be playing for Leeds Utd had he not got his emergency call-up to Rovers duty.

That's why I'm encouraged by Hughes bringing Nolan, Treacy, Peter, Derbyshire into first team contention. However, I believe that it is imperative that players like Nolan and Peter are given a playing-time to actually develop their game and confidence - be it on loan with a Championship club.

The lesson that must be learnt from the case of Ciaran Donnelly, Andy Taylor and to a lesser extent Watt, is that too long mired in the uninspiring surrounds of reserve football or bouncing around unstable and vitriol-infested lower league clubs can extinguish a once promising flame.

[mjs]

The lesson that must be learnt from the case of Ciaran Donnelly, Andy Taylor and to a lesser extent Watt, is that too long mired in the uninspiring surrounds of reserve football or bouncing around unstable and vitriol-infested lower league clubs can extinguish a once promising flame.

Or maybe they just have to be good enough, and have the right attitude, to make it at a higher level.

[Perth_Rover]

Or maybe they just have to be good enough, and have the right attitude, to make it at a higher level.

What's wrong with andy taylor? He's had a few injuries but he's still the next hope for our full back posistion?

[Martin]

I think the academy is doing a good job. It will be forever justified for the sales of Duff, Dunn and Martin Taylor.

What we have missed for a good few years is someone who has been at the club since they were 12 and have made a real impact in the first team. In recent times there has only been Mceveley, Gallagher and Peter (Even then I'm not sure about Peter). I don't count Derbyshire as a product of the youth system in the strictest sense. When you look around the premier league there is not that many that come through from the age of 12 or 13.

Arsenal have an excellent set of young players but few will have been at the club since the ages of 12 and 13. Perhaps the Hoyte brothers being the only exception.

Villa have a few in Ridgewell, Davis, Cahill and Agbonlahor. No world beaters but all would command reasonable transfer fees.

I can't think of any at Birmingham.

Bolton have Nolan and Hunt.

Chelsea - mmmmmmmmmm......Good luck, Scott Sinclair?.

Everton have Hibbet (??), Vaughan, Osman and Anichebe

Fulham have only Zat Knight.

Liverpool have Gerrard and I guess you can say Fowler.

Man City have a decent few. Richards, Onuoha (sp??), Barton, Jordan, Michael Johnson, Ishmael Miller and recently the Wright-Phillips brothers.

United - Bardsley, Brown, O'Shea, Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc etc.

M'Boro - have a whole raft of bog standard youngsters - the pick being Downing - who to be fair is better than bog standard.

Newcastle - Harper, Huntington and Edgar (although they didn't play much), Taylor, Ramage.

Pompey - I can only think of O'Neil.

Reading - I don't know enough to comment accurately.

Spurs - Ledley King?? They buy the rest in.

Wigan - Baines is the only one that springs to mind.

West Ham - Ferdinand, Reo-Coker and Noble.

This is by no means a comprehensive list, and some of those might have been bought in at 16 or 17 its only a guestimate list. So, feel free to include those I have missed.

What I am trying to say, is that we are not alone in having a dry spell in terms of what is being produced.. There aren't many guys who have made a real impact from the academy system over the past 2 or 3 years.

Only City and Middlesbrough have fielded a reasonable number of kids - but that hasn't served them incredibly well. I think sadly the days of the 12 year old going on to first team glory is long gone. Players just don't hang about nowerdays, even at academy level.

In summary we ain't doing too bad. By all means put the youngsters in, but when the time is right. Nobody wants to get battered 7-0 at Arsenal. Although our first team gave it a real good go this year.

[ihateburnley]

I think the academy is doing a good job. It will be forever justified for the sales of Duff, Dunn and Martin Taylor.

Arsenal have an excellent set of young players but few will have been at the club since the ages of 12 and 13. Perhaps the Hoyte brothers being the only exception.

Villa have a few in Ridgewell, Davis, Cahill and Agbonlahor. No world beaters but all would command reasonable transfer fees.

I can't think of any at Birmingham.

Bolton have Nolan and Hunt.

Chelsea - mmmmmmmmmm......Good luck, Scott Sinclair?.

Everton have Hibbet (??), Vaughan, Osman and Anichebe

Fulham have only Zat Knight.

Liverpool have Gerrard and I guess you can say Fowler.

Man City have a decent few. Richards, Onuoha (sp??), Barton, Jordan, Michael Johnson, Ishmael Miller and recently the Wright-Phillips brothers.

United - Bardsley, Brown, O'Shea, Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc etc.

M'Boro - have a whole raft of bog standard youngsters - the pick being Downing - who to be fair is better than bog standard.

Newcastle - Harper, Huntington and Edgar (although they didn't play much), Taylor, Ramage.

Pompey - I can only think of O'Neil.

Reading - I don't know enough to comment accurately.

Spurs - Ledley King?? They buy the rest in.

Wigan - Baines is the only one that springs to mind.

West Ham - Ferdinand, Reo-Coker and Noble.

This is by no means a comprehensive list, and some of those might have been bought in at 16 or 17 its only a guestimate list. So, feel free to include those I have missed.

What I am trying to say, is that we are not alone in having a dry spell in terms of what is being produced.. There aren't many guys who have made a real impact from the academy system over the past 2 or 3 years.

Only City and Middlesbrough have fielded a reasonable number of kids - but that hasn't served them incredibly well. I think sadly the days of the 12 year old going on to first team glory is long gone. Players just don't hang about nowerdays, even at academy level.

In summary we ain't doing too bad. By all means put the youngsters in, but when the time is right. Nobody wants to get battered 7-0 at Arsenal. Although our first team gave it a real good go this year.

Steve Harper didn't start his career at Newcastle - twas some non-league North-East club.

Nigel Reo Coker started at Wimbledon (as it was known then).

I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day it doesn't really make a difference if they have been at the club since they were 12 or 13, or whether they joined at 15, 16 or 17. Clubs like Arsenal and Manchester United have started picking talent up from some 'developing' countries (in a football sense) but to me I'd rather us get some talent in from the likes of Great Harwood Town, Darwen FC etc.

[JamieUK]

Clubs like Arsenal and Manchester United have started picking talent up from some 'developing' countries (in a football sense) but to me I'd rather us get some talent in from the likes of Great Harwood Town, Darwen FC etc.

You cant pick up talent that's not there tho can you? (Derbyshire excepted)

[den]

I think the academy is doing a good job. It will be forever justified for the sales of Duff, Dunn and Martin Taylor.

If you take away Duff and Dunn who were at the club before the academy was started, where does that leave your argument?

[Martin]

If you take away Duff and Dunn who were at the club before the academy was started, where does that leave your argument?

Not in a great place. But you can't start taking facts away. If we take away the PL title and league cup win what have we won in the last 10 to 12 years?

But no doubt the facilities helped Dunn and Duff both develop and stay at club, regardless of whether they were there before.

[LeChuck]

Chelsea - mmmmmmmmmm......Good luck, Scott Sinclair?.

John Terry surely?

I think Sinclair was bought from a lower league side when he was 15 or something. Bristol Rovers spring to mind but I could be very wrong.

Edit: Put in Carragher for Liverpool too. I've only glanced through the list, but as you missed those obvious two I'm guessing there are massive wholes throughout your assessment of Premiership academies.

[Roar of the Rover]

John Terry surely?

I think Sinclair was bought from a lower league side when he was 15 or something. Bristol Rovers spring to mind but I could be very wrong.

Edit: Put in Carragher for Liverpool too. I've only glanced through the list, but as you missed those obvious two I'm guessing there are massive wholes throughout your assessment of Premiership academies.

What about Stevie Warnock?

[LeChuck]

I think the list was players brought through by the academy of the club they are currently at, I could be wrong though.

[Martin]

I think the list was players brought through by the academy of the club they are currently at, I could be wrong though.

Yes, that was my intention. It's no accurate list that should be referenced or anything like that.

It was just something I went through very quickly to see exactly what people were producing. As I said when I posted it, there was bound to people I'd missed out.

Terry and Carragher are the obvious ones. There will be more.

[rover6]

Or maybe they just have to be good enough, and have the right attitude, to make it at a higher level.

Jay McEveley has admitted that his attitude was wrong at times and I don't think many would argue that he was ever good enough for Rovers first team. However, the fact he was fast-tracked as having potential and given a chance very early in his career is imo a major reason why he'll be playing in the Premiership next year.

I just think that Hughes should gamble with youth before signing squad padders like Berner, Henchoz, Nonda etc. Remember, if Nonda, Jeffers and Roberts had not all been injured at the same time, Derbyshire would not have got his chance last season.

The academy will rarely produce stars like Duff, but we can at least try and maximise its output by moulding potential into squad players and maybe one-day first teamers - or sales, bringing in the club much needed income.

[Manc Rover]

I think our academy has been pretty good over the past 10 years or so - look at Dunn, Duff, Peter, Derbs, McEveley, Gally to name a few. I'd say this is more than stands up with the top teams in the prem. Who have Utd brought through since the fergie fledglings of Giggs, Scholes, Nevilles etc? Kieran Richardson, Darren Fletcher and John O'shea are the only ones that spring to mind.

I remember a certain John Ebbrell who came through at Everton and was captain of England at every level right up to the U21's, and was widely tipped to be the next Bryan Robson. Turned out he was complete rubbish.

[CAPT KAYOS]

but to me I'd rather us get some talent in from the likes of Great Harwood Town, Darwen FC etc.

So would I

We have had similar discussions on the board previously, and I am still of the opinion these academies take them on board at too early an age, thus taking the enjoyment that allows youngsters to find their level/position (without pressures) and the natural confidence, talent and development of learning the game.

[daren]

Talked to some of the academy boys after their away Bolton match, and the only problem as they saw it was home-sickness (the club had at least one set of parents over). They certainly didn't feel under mad pressure to perform, and the spirit and camaraderie was there for all to see. If you don't think that the academy system works, then look at the ones that do (Barca, Milan), in Europe, and ask what we're doing different/wrong.

[Hypo-Luxa]

If you don't think that the academy system works, then look at the ones that do (Barca, Milan), in Europe, and ask what we're doing different/wrong.

I'll let you know when my lad gets accepted to the AC Milan academy...sure he's only 1 1/2 years old, but I figure it's a foregone conclusion.

[daren]

Ha, I'll get his autograph then!

[speeeeeeedie]

I'd rather us get some talent in from the likes of Great Harwood Town, Darwen FC etc.

So would I

We have had similar discussions on the board previously, and I am still of the opinion these academies take them on board at too early an age, thus taking the enjoyment that allows youngsters to find their level/position (without pressures) and the natural confidence, talent and development of learning the game.

Talked to some of the academy boys after their away Bolton match, and the only problem as they saw it was home-sickness (the club had at least one set of parents over). They certainly didn't feel under mad pressure to perform, and the spirit and camaraderie was there for all to see.

I've been saying this for ages; the local catchment area does not have the talent pool of Manchester, Liverpool, or London. Rovers don't have the experience or set up for bringing in foreign imports therefore we will always struggle with our youth teams. Organised competitive local youth leagues, a supportive education system, supplementary - rather than primary - professional coaching, not putting too much pressure on them at a young age, decent pitches to play on, and a local club that treats them well when they do get there will enable BFRC to take the cream off the top of a well oiled machine.

As a generality English kids do not have the technical ability of many European and South American countries. Until the culture changes from; "lump it!", "stop fannying about with it!", and "get stuck in!" we will always be the nearly men.