[Archived] Bernard Manning Dies

[thenodrog]

Note all three (and Peter Kay) are from Lancy: it's the way we tell 'em.

Suprised that you haven't mentioned George Formby in your list.

[Drummer Boy]

Is there any difference between his intolerance and Manning's?

I think the point being made is that Manning was not intolerant - he just told jokes that were often funny but were based on distinguishing features and stereotypes of nearly all minorities within the UK. I suppose it could be said he differentiated but never discriminated and if the rest of society could do the same, rejoicing and celebrating and, indeed, laughing at our differences we would be in a better place. As it is, the po-faced political correctness, middle-class pseudo-educated liberal intolerance and snobbery currently rule the roost because nobody dares take them on. Bernard Manning did and, for that, he has my lasting admiration and best wishes - we could do with more prepared to make a similar stand. With the ever-increasing insistence of the state in telling us how to think, what to say/not to say, positive discrimination in favour of every group except the indigenous population (especially the poorer sections), we need Bernard Manning and his ilk more than ever. Bloody hell, you can't even smoke yourself to death nowadays!!!

Do I qualify for a public warning or. worse, a compulsory reading of the Guardian whilst having to study for a social science degree at the University of Runcorn so that I can learn to "tut" at anyone who isn't as liberal as me and prepared to be walked over by anyone who wants to jump on the discrimination bandwagon or has some spurious argument that I'm not sufficiently "diverse" in my thinking? I find it all a bit sad in a country that is a mongrel collection of cultures that have blended over the last millennium or so that it has come to this.

Bernard Manning made me laugh, but not as much as Les Dawson - they were both intelligent, fat, white working-class men. They wouldn't have a chance now would they - unless of course obesity becomes the next condition about which there will be discrimination legislation in the place of common sense in which case they could have applied for government funding to form a street theatre collective with taxpayers money instead of working the clubs and making a few quid off their own back because that might have been a bit too much like hard work.

[RevidgeBlue]

I remember that . Wilson is a Labour Party member ...and , typical of the new breed of intolerant snobs , made up his mind beforehand that he was going to be offended .....

Anyway , RIP Mr Manning . Not a great fan of stand up comics ....but at least he was his own man .

Caroline Aherne was even worse.

She'd obviously made her mind up she was going to slag him off no matter what. It wouldn't have made the slightest difference what he'd actually said.

[RevidgeBlue]

Interesting in that obituary thing to read that when he went across the pond (which was also a huge success) Irish jokes became Polish jokes.

Does anyone seriously think he had a thing against Polish people? Of course not.

[thenodrog]

The only people who misunderstood Bernard Manning were those with no sense of humour...... Frank Carson.

[jim mk2]

Maybe not, but listening to Manning's stuff today is cringeworthy in the extreme. Singling out a black man in an audience, as the likes of Manning and Stan Boardman did, and comparing them to monkeys wasn't funny then and certainly isn't funny now.

The likes of Ricky Gervais has shown that it is possible to be insulting but witty and subtle at the same time. Manning's plantation talk was of its time but comedy has moved on thankfully.

[Eddie]

Do I qualify for a public warning or. worse, a compulsory reading of the Guardian whilst having to study for a social science degree at the University of Runcorn so that I can learn to "tut" at anyone who isn't as liberal as me and prepared to be walked over by anyone who wants to jump on the discrimination bandwagon or has some spurious argument that I'm not sufficiently "diverse" in my thinking? I find it all a bit sad in a country that is a mongrel collection of cultures that have blended over the last millennium or so that it has come to this.

This sort of response comes up everytime someone says that something was incoorect or insulting and it is quite simply stupid. He told some funny jokes, but a good number of his jokes weren't funny and were ignorant and insulting. If you find it funny then good for you, but you'll find a good number of those who were on the recieving end won't. If you're going to make fun of someone in a joke then they have to be able to laugh at it. More to the point, for all of you who are defending his jokes, would you retell them?

[Drummer Boy]

This sort of response comes up everytime someone says that something was incoorect or insulting and it is quite simply stupid. He told some funny jokes, but a good number of his jokes weren't funny and were ignorant and insulting. If you find it funny then good for you, but you'll find a good number of those who were on the recieving end won't. If you're going to make fun of someone in a joke then they have to be able to laugh at it. More to the point, for all of you who are defending his jokes, would you retell them?

On the other side, if you can't laugh at yourself, the rest of the world will do it for you and it may be possible that we have allowed a number of groups to take themselves too seriously as we beat ourselves up and demand that we apologise for perceived past sins that are only such through our modern very liberal values. Nothing wrong with that in particular, but the intolerance and snobbery of the new middle-class elite school of political thinking is irritating in the extreme as is the petulant indignation and intellectual laziness that comes with it.

This sort of response comes up every time someone does not conform to the current trends in political thought. Because I'm not a liberal intolerant, I'm "quite simply stupid" - I'll try to cope without counselling and implementation of a coping mechanism.

[Presty On Tour]

rip to a stand up legend.

[thenodrog]

Interesting in that obituary thing to read that when he went across the pond (which was also a huge success) Irish jokes became Polish jokes.

Does anyone seriously think he had a thing against Polish people? Of course not.

The only people who misunderstood Bernard Manning were those with no sense of humour...... Frank Carson.

Maybe not, but listening to Manning's stuff today is cringeworthy in the extreme. Singling out a black man in an audience, as the likes of Manning and Stan Boardman did, and comparing them to monkeys wasn't funny then and certainly isn't funny now.

The likes of Ricky Gervais has shown that it is possible to be insulting but witty and subtle at the same time. Manning's plantation talk was of its time but comedy has moved on thankfully.

Just a couple of seconds in cyberspace BUT I actually answered Jims response before he's posted it!

btw it was funny Jim. It must have been. You might like to come over all superior but in those days lots of stuff that now would be considered racist hit the silver screen then. Why? Cos of ratings! Jictars I believe reflected the ratings and influenced the producers.

Here's a few that were considered wildly funny by huge audiences in those distant days....

Till Death us do Part

Blazing Saddles

Even the awful 'Love thy neighbour' and it's US copycat version attracted big viewing figures.

The thing is....

1. Has racism declined any since the PC brigade took over censorship?

2. Is it better to laugh and ridicule racist behaviour and attitude (as all the above actually did if you recall) or is it better to sweep it under the carpet and ignore it hoping that it will go away? Imo censorship as it has developed into nowadays actually provides an ideal breeding ground for racist and bigoted attitudes.

Oh btw Jim "The likes of Ricky Gervais has shown that it is possible to be insulting but witty and subtle at the same time."

Gervais? Witty maybe, subtle also, clever too .... BUT funny enough to stand up live on a stage night after night, week after week, year in year out and cause real belly laughs from audiences that have seen him over and over again? No way.

[Rovermatt]

On the other side, if you can't laugh at yourself, the rest of the world will do it for you and it may be possible that we have allowed a number of groups to take themselves too seriously as we beat ourselves up and demand that we apologise for perceived past sins that are only such through our modern very liberal values. Nothing wrong with that in particular, but the intolerance and snobbery of the new middle-class elite school of political thinking is irritating in the extreme as is the petulant indignation and intellectual laziness that comes with it.

This sort of response comes up every time someone does not conform to the current trends in political thought. Because I'm not a liberal intolerant, I'm "quite simply stupid" - I'll try to cope without counselling and implementation of a coping mechanism.

Branding somebody such as Richard Wilson (for example) in this way doesn't mean it's actually true. You don't have to be part of this so-called 'middle-class elite/liberal intolerant' (a spurious label slung around with as much wild abandon on this MB as 'racist' etc) cabal, who are apparently completely out of control, to be offended by some of Manning's humour. To object to many of his jokes is not to subscribe to allegedly insidious political beliefs, rather people are simply turned off by it.

[Drummer Boy]

Branding somebody such as Richard Wilson (for example) in this way doesn't mean it's actually true. You don't have to be part of this so-called 'middle-class elite/liberal intolerant' (a spurious label slung around with as much wild abandon on this MB as 'racist' etc) cabal, who are apparently completely out of control, to be offended by some of Manning's humour. To object to many of his jokes is not to subscribe to allegedly insidious political beliefs, rather people are simply turned off by it.

I do agree it is possible to be offended by Manning's humour in the same way it is possible to be offended by the humour of, say, Ricky Gervais/Lenny Henry/Ben Elton and I think you are right to make the point that some are simply turned off by it in the same way that I am simply turned off by reality TV shows and the obsession with celebrity style over substance. However, the point I make is that to take it off the airwaves and censor it on behalf of the population because you know what's best for them is, in this instance, "spurious" or "quite simply stupid". Manning was far more representative of a very large section of our society than the people to whom I refer would like to believe so they tried to undermine him by taking him off air and it only partially worked because he was a talented funny guy (who did also turn off a lot of people who did not find him funny) who could fill theatres daily.

We'll leave aside the spurious label bit on account of pots and kettles - your spurious label is my strap line, my spurious label is your ill-considered remark - we'll never get this right, but the underlying issue remains unaffected.

[Rovermatt]

We'll leave aside the spurious label bit on account of pots and kettles - your spurious label is my strap line, my spurious label is your ill-considered remark - we'll never get this right, but the underlying issue remains unaffected.

I don't follow you.

Anyway, Manning's views may be shared by many people. Does that make those views ok?

[broadsword]

And what views where they Matt?

Did you ever see him live?

I'm just curious.

[Drummer Boy]

I don't follow you.

Anyway, Manning's views may be shared by many people. Does that make those views ok?

One man's "spurious label" is another's "summary expression" - it becomes an argument about vocabulary rather than underlying meaning and is best avoided as it distracts from the issue. Does that help?

I think you miss my point - Manning's views are not at issue here: What is at issue whether or not it is reasonable to laugh at things that differentiate some of us from others and to play on stereotypes without ever discriminating. For example, if you are a native of Belfast, is it acceptable to tell a joke that uses stereotypes of people from Ulster that differentiates them in the eyes of many whilst always recognising it is unacceptable to discriminate against such people on the same grounds that differentiate them.

Also, whilst I do not find everything Bernard Manning did spectacularly funny, I always felt he had every right to be on telly as much as any other comedian - how was he different from the Andy & Lou characters, amongst others, in Little Britain? Is it because those who feel they know best decided Little Britain was funny in some sort of "ironic" way whereas Bernard Manning was offensive? I suspect so and it is this censorship and imposition of a code of values to which I object.

Apart from that, he could make a mediocre joke good with his great sense of timing and delivery - he could be very funny indeed.

[Rovermatt]

And what views where they Matt?

Did you ever see him live?

I'm just curious.

No I haven't seen him live though I'm pretty sure the Bernard Manning that has passed away is the same Bernard Manning whose act consisted of various 'traditional' jokes re: minorities etc. Even if it was a con, as the man himself claimed during his life, it was certainly tapping into something.

Though as Drummer Boy states not all his jokes were in this vein-he was clearly a fine stand up comedian.

[Billy Castell]

I prefer Tommy Cooper and Morcombe and Wise out of the comedians from the 1970's.

Anyway, Roy 'Chubby' Brown did a gig here at the end of last month, which was probably sold out. Sophisticated lot here in Yorkshire. I may be a snob, but just saying rude words for the sake of it is not really comedy.

[JC4LAB]

Its all about keeping TV and live performance seperate..Bernard Manning is tame stuff compared what nowadys comes to the Manchester Comedystore and Edinburgh festival thats never gets a TV airing.. Aggressive foul mouthed humour fills these venues to capacity

[adopted scouser]

You would have expected someone like Mark Lamarr to pull him to bits, but this is a treat !

[Eddie]

I do agree it is possible to be offended by Manning's humour in the same way it is possible to be offended by the humour of, say, Ricky Gervais/Lenny Henry/Ben Elton and I think you are right to make the point that some are simply turned off by it in the same way that I am simply turned off by reality TV shows and the obsession with celebrity style over substance. However, the point I make is that to take it off the airwaves and censor it on behalf of the population because you know what's best for them is, in this instance, "spurious" or "quite simply stupid". Manning was far more representative of a very large section of our society than the people to whom I refer would like to believe so they tried to undermine him by taking him off air and it only partially worked because he was a talented funny guy (who did also turn off a lot of people who did not find him funny) who could fill theatres daily.

So who cares about the minority becasue they are, by definition, the minority? I hardly think that as many people are offended by Ricky Gervais or Lenny Henry as were by Manning and I'm sure anyone on here would agree with that. This is another one of those instances where people like to think "oh remember the old days when we could call them n****rs, s****s and p***s and we really got to say what was on our mind, wasn't that great?". Sometimes the old days aren't better and it is really good that we progressed. As I said, if any of you are brave enough to walk up to a group of strangers and tell a Manning joke that they are the butt of then please come forward.

[Drummer Boy]

You would have expected someone like Mark Lamarr to pull him to bits, but this is a treat !

Brilliant - I have to ask, what is the story behind the woman punching the other woman?

[adopted scouser]

So who cares about the minority becasue they are, by definition, the minority? I hardly think that as many people are offended by Ricky Gervais or Lenny Henry as were by Manning and I'm sure anyone on here would agree with that. This is another one of those instances where people like to think "oh remember the old days when we could call them n****rs, s****s and p***s and we really got to say what was on our mind, wasn't that great?". Sometimes the old days aren't better and it is really good that we progressed. As I said, if any of you are brave enough to walk up to a group of strangers and tell a Manning joke that they are the butt of then please come forward.

Watch the Mark Lamarr interview Eddie, he was funny.

[adopted scouser]

Brilliant - I have to ask, what is the story behind the woman punching the other woman?

Haven't got a clue mate, just like funny gifs. I'm looking for another at the moment, pity you missed the weather girl ......

[Rovermatt]

Watch the Mark Lamarr interview Eddie, he was funny.

'The shallow end'.

[Ste B]

I hardly think that as many people are offended by Lenny Henry

I am, because comedys Geldof hasnt had a funny bone in his body.

Watch the interview that AS linked and tell me its not funny, rather than being PC for the sake of it.