Derek Dougan Dies

[USABlue]

Condolences to his family who will no doubt miss him. As for me, no respect for the bloke.

[broadsword]

now that he's dead I don't want to speak ill of him.

Absolutely, it's the right thing to do.

he handed in a transfer request on the day of the FA Cup final. It was a disgraceful act,

Ooops, just a cheeky l'il mention, then!

his family of course are not in any way to blame for the transfer request.

Oh OK, let's bring it up one more time!

perhaps God will forgive him for his treacherous act in 1960.

Sod it, let's give it the full gun!

You do make me chuckle, you really do!

[blue phil]

Quite restrained I'd say , Bryan , considering the depth of his treachery . It's not just modern players who don't give a damn about the supporters .

Wandering off the topic a bit , what exactly did go on with the ticket scandal of that cup final ? Anyone know the details ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I've got the dvd of the game and I've watched it several times ! Dougan appears to pull up after about 5 mins, after that he may as well come and sat next to me for all he contributed. We were as good as playing with 9 men after Dave Whelan broke his leg just before half time in the hottest cup final I can remember ( no subs in those days ). What was going on in Dougan's head during this period we'll never know now, what I can't understand is why he was ever allowed to pull the shirt on again !

[Fife Rover]

Quite restrained I'd say , Bryan , considering the depth of his treachery . It's not just modern players who don't give a damn about the supporters .

Wandering off the topic a bit , what exactly did go on with the ticket scandal of that cup final ? Anyone know the details ?

I can't remember the exact figures that were being bandied around at the time, and in truth I don't believe anybody outside of the Rovers themselves ever knew. However when the Rovers were given their allocation by the FA the figure that appeared in the press was around 30,000 for each of the two clubs and the rest for distribution by the FA to member clubs. Allowing for the expected allocation of tickets (say a dozen or so) to every member of the Rovers staff including players (which we believed was the norm) this should have meant over 29,000 for sale to the public with ST holders getting first choice, and then the rest going on open sale. I can only speak for my own circle of friends and family that were all die-hard fans (about 15) then including workmates ( another 50 or so). Out of those I only heard of ONE person that actually got a ticket. This was my brother-in -law who got one ticket that he WON in a raffle at the YMCA where he was a player for the football team. I never actually met anybody else that got one. Where did they all go? You tell me!

Edited June 26, 2007 by Fife Rover

[rover_groo]

I for one an truly saddened to hear the passing of Derek Dougan. He was a true legend to the world of soccer and I'm really proud of his achievements as a player.

He played an important role in the history of Blackburn Rovers and his goals helped Rovers to the final of the FA Cup and also ensured that we never got relegated when we were dicing with danger, with many people stating that we were concentrating on the great cup run at this time.

On Monday morning 'Doog' suffered a massive heart-attack and attempts to resuscitate the former Northern Ireland International failed before the ambulance crew arrived. I attended a 25th anniversary for the members of Northern Irelands World Cup squad from 1982 that evening and a silence was held for the popular player. In attendance were Noel Brotherston's parents as they were part of the VIP party along with Billy Bingham, Gerry Armstrong, Norman Whiteside and John McClelland amongst others, with them all speaking highly of him.

In the end of Derek's time at Blackburn he became unhappy at the club and how it was run. He has stated that training was basically laps around the park and the club seemed to be hugely disorganised. He then wanted to leave and asking for it on the eve of the final certainly didn't do anyone any favours. Not getting into any arguments, but loosing it certainly can't be blamed on one single person who got us there at the end of the day.

Condolences to his sons Alexander and Nicholas, his partner Merlyn Humphries and the rest of his family circle. Football has lot a genuine character and a super football and I will remember the fond memories of the player and person he was. RIP 'Doog'.

As for me, no respect for the bloke.

If you possess comments like these, it's best keeping them to yourself as a mark of respect to someone who gave 100% to the club. I for one will respect the dead especially 'Doog'. He was one of us and it was brace in the semi's against Sheffield Wednesday that secured our passage in the final.

[blue phil]

I never actually met anybody else that got one. Where did they all go? You tell me!

Cheers Fife . Just as well they didn't have the internet in those days .....

[92er]

I can't remember the exact figures that were being bandied around at the time, and in truth I don't believe anybody outside of the Rovers themselves ever knew. However when the Rovers were given their allocation by the FA the figure that appeared in the press was around 30,000 for each of the two clubs and the rest for distribution by the FA to member clubs. Allowing for the expected allocation of tickets (say a dozen or so) to every member of the Rovers staff including players (which we believed was the norm) this should have meant over 29,000 for sale to the public with ST holders getting first choice, and then the rest going on open sale. I can only speak for my own circle of friends and family that were all die-hard fans (about 15) then including workmates ( another 50 or so). Out of those I only heard of ONE person that actually got a ticket. This was my brother-in -law who got one ticket that he WON in a raffle at the YMCA where he was a player for the football team. I never actually met anybody else that got one. Where did they all go? You tell me!

The rumour was that the players were openly selling them in the town centre-presumably for more than their nominal price and this double-whammy also upset a lot of fans who vowed never to return.

[USABlue]

I for one will respect the dead

Lot's of other dead folk I have no respect for, I won't change that just because they are dead. You maybe are right though in this instance, best just to have said nothing.

[rover_groo]

Did it ever come out why he did it?

I managed to take a look over his autobiography which was published in 1975 era. He stated that he still got answered that question 10 years since the final (and possibly until even this year i would expect) and he can't give an explanation as to why he timed it as he did. He added that he got injured in the game prior to the final and maybe shouldn't have played and admitted this had an affect on his game.

He did state that when he joined Blackburn, he then started to become the outspoken character and rebelled against decisions that he didn't agree to. However, as I've stated before he became increasingly unhappy during the latter time at Ewood, especially as the club were training part-time on two evenings a week. These sessions were basically only laps around the park and the players had to work off the cuff and instinct on all matchdays, as they didn't go through any of this.

He just felt to be a full-time professional it just wasn't up to his standards the way he viewed the way the club was run. In his own opinion there were men in charge who shouldn't have been and the club went through two managers during his two and a half year spell and knew the club were soon going to find themselves facing relegation if these people were in charge.

He never went into any names, but the club unfortunately did get relegated to Division Two during the 1965-66 season. 'Doog' moved to Villa and failed to settle in and made it a succession of an approximate two seasons with his first three clubs and matched that with moves to Peterborough and Leicester, but still managed to average out with a goal every two games.

He then moved to Wolves in 1967 at the age of 29 and stayed with them as a player for over eight seasons scoring 123 goals in 323 appearances, helping the midlands club clinch promotion from the Second Division in his first season.

[den]

He did state that when he joined Blackburn, he then started to become the outspoken character and rebelled against decisions that he didn't agree to. However, as I've stated before he became increasingly unhappy during the latter time at Ewood, especially as the club were training part-time on two evenings a week. These sessions were basically only laps around the park and the players had to work off the cuff and instinct on all matchdays, as they didn't go through any of this.

He just felt to be a full-time professional it just wasn't up to his standards the way he viewed the way the club was run. In his own opinion there were men in charge who shouldn't have been and the club went through two managers during his two and a half year spell and knew the club were soon going to find themselves facing relegation if these people were in charge.

He never went into any names, but the club unfortunately did get relegated to Division Two during the 1965-66 season.

Well, shortly after he left Ewood, rovers fans were treated to watching possibly the best attacking team ever to grace Ewood park, certainly in living memory. That side was unbelievably good at times, beating the likes of a great spurs side 7-2 at home and an excellent West Ham team team 8-2 away from home. When the team did actually did get relegated, 5 years later, the biggest problem was the Polio epidemic that swept through Blackburn, leaving the club stranded at the bottom of the first division and facing a relegation battle from the first fixture.

So I'm not convinced that his stories about the training not being up to scratch were true. Having said that, the average fitness of a Pro football player in those days, was a mile behind what it is now - but that was at every club, not just Rovers.

Doog was always regarded as being a bit "eccentric", partly down to shaving his head [unknown in those days].

Edited June 28, 2007 by den

[broadsword]

I thought he used to tease his hair into strange contorted styles?

[Fife Rover]

The training in the my days (50's and early 60's) was nothing like it is today. There was no tactical stuff at all; players were expected to (and did) play from instinct and visual awareness in the game. The only training we had on a regular basis apart from fitness training was "Basic Skills" and "specialist skills" The basics consisted of general skills such as trapping a ball coming at you from any height, direction or speed with either "killing" the ball or "touch and move". To do this we had to be able to bring the ball under instant control and using the inside or outsid of either foot. Or using your head or chest as appropriate for touch and move. Other general skills were tackling, shooting, passing, crossing etc.

The specialist skills for me as a winger were all about positional play and dribbling skills. Again it was dribbling with inside or outside of either foot, plus things like how to beat an opponent with the ball and to make accurate passes or crosses to colleagues. Things like push and run, or body swerve technique, or stopping suddenly and change direction etc.

So I really can't understand what Dougan was getting at when he said "just lapping the track" That was not my experience.

[den]

I for one an truly saddened to hear the passing of Derek Dougan. He was a true legend to the world of soccer and I'm really proud of his achievements as a player.

He played an important role in the history of Blackburn Rovers and his goals helped Rovers to the final of the FA Cup and also ensured that we never got relegated when we were dicing with danger, with many people stating that we were concentrating on the great cup run at this time.

On Monday morning 'Doog' suffered a massive heart-attack and attempts to resuscitate the former Northern Ireland International failed before the ambulance crew arrived. I attended a 25th anniversary for the members of Northern Irelands World Cup squad from 1982 that evening and a silence was held for the popular player. In attendance were Noel Brotherston's parents as they were part of the VIP party along with Billy Bingham, Gerry Armstrong, Norman Whiteside and John McClelland amongst others, with them all speaking highly of him.

In the end of Derek's time at Blackburn he became unhappy at the club and how it was run. He has stated that training was basically laps around the park and the club seemed to be hugely disorganised. He then wanted to leave and asking for it on the eve of the final certainly didn't do anyone any favours. Not getting into any arguments, but loosing it certainly can't be blamed on one single person who got us there at the end of the day.

Condolences to his sons Alexander and Nicholas, his partner Merlyn Humphries and the rest of his family circle. Football has lot a genuine character and a super football and I will remember the fond memories of the player and person he was. RIP 'Doog'.

If you possess comments like these, it's best keeping them to yourself as a mark of respect to someone who gave 100% to the club. I for one will respect the dead especially 'Doog'. He was one of us and it was brace in the semi's against Sheffield Wednesday that secured our passage in the final.

Download those goals for free, Here.

[rover_groo]

Well, shortly after he left Ewood, rovers fans were treated to watching possibly the best attacking team ever to grace Ewood park, certainly in living memory. That side was unbelievably good at times, beating the likes of a great spurs side 7-2 at home and an excellent West Ham team team 8-2 away from home.

In fairness I can see where you are coming from, but I was sure that the best attacking side was prior to this date. Was it not from the era of the early to mid 1950s.

In fairness we were playing in the old Division Two, but you still have to be able to perform at a high level to record our biggest victory (9-0 vs Middlesbrough) along with other notable scalps 8-3 vs Bristol Rovers, 7-2 vs Doncaster. It was our own inconsistancy that cost us promotion on a few seasons, but who will be able to forget the attacking players who made it into the Ewood folklore Tommy Briggs, Eddie Crossan, Bryan Douglas, Eddie Quigley who during 1954-55 season the team scored over 100 league goals.

In the other ear you suggested of course we had players on top of their game with Andy McEvoy, Fred Pickering and Mike England notching up a huge tally of goals and ensured Spurs and West Ham to heavy defeats in the 1963 season but again another inconsistant run, especially at the end of the season ensured that a higher position was reached.

When the team did actually did get relegated, 5 years later, the biggest problem was the Polio epidemic that swept through Blackburn, leaving the club stranded at the bottom of the first division and facing a relegation battle from the first fixture.

So I'm not convinced that his stories about the training not being up to scratch were true. Having said that, the average fitness of a Pro football player in those days, was a mile behind what it is now - but that was at every club, not just Rovers.

Thats more than a fair fact that the Polio epidemic that broke out in Blackburn had a huge affect on the team causing a few games to be postponed and had to be played at a later date during the season and possibly the main reason why the club got relegated.

However as you said you weren't convinced about the stories about training and the fact that it was the same story with the rest of the clubs. In fairness a lot of clubs would have had to train on parks with money not available, but I would find it hard to believe that they would have limited the team to just two training sessions a week.

This is of course just one side to the story, but it was to do with his opinion that he had to move on, but still had fond memories of the club. He never lowered himself and to belittle the club when he left and continued to give 100% to whatever club he played for.

- - -

Apologies for getting a tad defensive here, but I'm only going on what my opinions are and also on what I believe to be true in my own mind. At the end of the day this was here to dedicate this thread to a former Rover and hopefully this is what has been done.

RIP Doog.

[den]

Totally understand where you're coming from Rover groo. Was talking yesterday to someone who saw more of Cheyenne than I did. He reckons he was a superb centre forward.

[Fife Rover]

Totally understand where you're coming from Rover groo. Was talking yesterday to someone who saw more of Cheyenne than I did. He reckons he was a superb centre forward.

According to my relatives that were regular attenders at Ewood in the late 50'/ early 60's Dougan was indeed a very good player. I saw very little of him because at the time I was living and playing myself down south, so only very occasionally got to Ewood in those days. I got back to regular attending at Ewood in April '66 just as my own playing career came to an abrupt end.

[ihateburnley]

According to my relatives that were regular attenders at Ewood in the late 50'/ early 60's Dougan was indeed a very good player. I saw very little of him because at the time I was living and playing myself down south, so only very occasionally got to Ewood in those days. I got back to regular attending at Ewood in April '66 just as my own playing career came to an abrupt end.

Who did you play for?

[FourLaneBlue]

However as you said you weren't convinced about the stories about training and the fact that it was the same story with the rest of the clubs. In fairness a lot of clubs would have had to train on parks with money not available, but I would find it hard to believe that they would have limited the team to just two training sessions a week.

Hmm...this is a difficult one. There is no way in discussing Dougan on a Rovers board that his career at Rovers can be overlooked and therefore the transfer request will always be remembered. Even if the man has unfortunately passed away. Whatever the reasons or side of the story the question still has to be did that justify putting in a transfer request on the morning of an FA Cup Final? The answer has to be no.

Usually I've plenty of sympathy for players during those days (pre-1961 maximum wage players who were treated closer to chattel than free workers) but to hand in a transfer request on the morning of the club's most important game for over three decades...it was just wrong. Dougan himself expressed some regret I believe in later years. All he had to do was wait one day...I don't see how that act can be defended. In the end he stayed for an extra year at Rovers anyway and didn't move on until 1961. If I remember correctly I believe Dougan also challenged all things in football...he was a fighter...I remember reading about him challenging doctors and physicians. For this he got a reputation as a difficult player. Ultimately though he was the one proved right as he suffered many ailments after retiring. Rather a pyrrhic victory that one.

Doesn't mean you are insulting the man however just by stating that the timing of the act was all wrong. Otherwise DD was a great player for the club. The record of 26 goals in 59 appearances (from Mike Jackman although according to the club website it was 34 in 76...I'll go with Jackman!) is a superb goal return and isn't far off a goal every two games. It's true that he scored three goals on the way to the final but to suggest Rovers were only there because of him does a disservice to the rest of the team such as Bryan Douglas (architect of the comeback and subsequent win over Burnley) and Dobing who scored five goals in the cup run. It was a good team all round. However it doesn't make living around that time sound so great when you have polio outbreaks!!!

The cup final itself was just one massive disaster...Dougan played a part in it but it certainly wasn't all down to him. Whelan breaking his leg didn't help.

As for the club/board/players/etc who made cash by selling on tickets at the expense of Rovers fans...there was a drop in attendance at Ewood the next season and we have never again reached the attendance levels of 1959/60. That was how much so many fans felt betrayed by the club.

RIP to Derek Dougan...in death, as in life, he doesn't half split opinion!

Edited June 28, 2007 by FourLaneBlue

[rover_groo]

THE funeral of Northern Ireland legend, Derek Dougan will take place on Thursday July 5 at 1pm at St Peter’s Church in Wolverhampton.

The former centre-forward died on Sunday, aged 69. Born in Belfast in January 1938, he was capped 43 times for his country. He made his international debut in June 1958 in 1-0 win against Czechoslovakia during the 1958 World Cup. His last appearance for Northern Ireland was in February 1973 in a World Cup qualifier against Cyprus.

Totally understand where you're coming from Rover groo. Was talking yesterday to someone who saw more of Cheyenne than I did. He reckons he was a superb centre forward.

Cheers Den.

I'm glad you know when I am coming from and not to take what I said personally. All I have had was literature and videos of what he had done both for club and country and to end up with 34 goals from 76 appearances certainly takes some beating.

Speaking to some of his former team-mates you can actually learn quite a bit from them with that little bit of insight that they give.

So who did you play for Fife?

The money must have been excellent down south for you to move away from your own home!!

[rover_groo]

Some excellent pointers there FLB. You've certainly taken time to write this and I'll just break into play what you've written and quite a bit I do agree on.

Whatever the reasons or side of the story the question still has to be did that justify putting in a transfer request on the morning of an FA Cup Final? The answer has to be no.

Yeah, I've never said it was correct of him to do so and was trying to find soem reasoning that he had given for this. All that I have basically said, why portray such a bad character of the man on one failing at Blackburn Rovers? If fans want to hold this against him, then say nothing at all in a thread that should be here to pay some respect to the 'Doog'.

Dougan himself expressed some regret I believe in later years. All he had to do was wait one day...I don't see how that act can be defended. In the end he stayed for an extra year at Rovers anyway and didn't move on until 1961. If I remember correctly I believe Dougan also challenged all things in football...he was a fighter...

Well it must have been something to spark Derek off to make such a ruthless decision and it's moments like these we all have. We make decisions and jump in head first only to regret it. But it's with these decisions that we all live and learn from and I don't think 'Doog' made any such drastic decisions in football.

The record of 26 goals in 59 appearances (from Mike Jackman although according to the club website it was 34 in 76...I'll go with Jackman!) is a superb goal return and is better than a goal every two games. It's true that he scored three goals on the way to the final but to suggest Rovers were only there because of him does a disservice to the rest of the team such as Bryan Douglas (architect of the comeback and subsequent win over Burnley) and Dobing who scored five goals in the cup run. It was a good team all round. However it doesn't make living around that time sound so great when you have polio outbreaks!!!

I presume that the 26 goals in 59 appearances were merely in the league, whilst the other eight came in other competitions along with the additional 17 appearances.

Never once has Derek's three goals in that Cup run been solely attributed to him being the success of the team who reached the final, but he played a huge part of that team and to acclaim all the accolades onto him would be sole destroying to the rest of the team. In fairness he did score Rovers two goals in the semi's to book the passage through, but Harry Leyland also had a super game in goals that day as well. So I'm sure there are a few more hero's that day apart from the afore mentioned two who have sadly passed away.

The cup final itself was just one massive disaster...Dougan played a part in it but it certainly wasn't all down to him. Whelan breaking his leg didn't help.

RIP to Derek Dougan...in death, as in life, he doesn't half split opinion!

'Doog' admitted to having a poor game that day and I'm glad to see that he wasn't being held responsible for Rovers loosing in such a big tie that day. Maybe we could have looked upon the management that day who could have said this man isn't mentally or physically fit (after picking up an injury in the game before) to play and we shouldn't let this affect the rest of the team.

Nonetheless, the leag break to Dave Whelan was severe and basically led Rovers onto a final 3-0 defeat. All in all, everyone of us will have memories of Derek Dougan.

[Fife Rover]

Who did you play for?

I knew someone would ask. Letchworth Town in the Isthmian League. They were one of the top amateur clubs at that time.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Fife Rover

[RevidgeBlue]

Interestingly, there was a very good in depth article in the middle pages of the LT today about Dougan courtesy of his brother.

His brother claimed the reason he put in a transfer request on Cup Final day was due to a dispute about bonuses. Supposedly the players had been promised the earth in bonuses the further they got in the competition , but these weren't forthcoming.

As a result, all the players got together and supposedly agreed they would ALL hand in transfer requests on the morning of the final with a view to negotiating with the management.

Come Cup Final morning it's claimed Dougan did as was planned and handed in his request but looked round and was left embarrassed and let down when no-one else did!

I must admit I take this claim with a pinch of salt as it's the first time I've ever heard it advanced from any source.

Interesting though and if there was any truth in it, it would give a logical reason for what on the face of it was an inexplicable act.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Surprised by that article tbh,would love to hear the comments of Ronnie Clayton and Bryan Douglas regarding it...opens a can of worms doesn't it!

[thenodrog]

Surprised by that article tbh,would love to hear the comments of Ronnie Clayton and Bryan Douglas regarding it...opens a can of worms doesn't it!

Very brief comment from an elderly gent of my aquaintance who is a very close and long time friend of a couple of Ewood players from that era ..... "???????? reckons that Derek Dougan was all for himself".

Who was it who said that 'football is all about opinions'?