[Archived] Copa America

[daren]

Ok, I couldn't find an existing topic, so I've started this as a place to have a discussion on the Copa seeing as we're short on other footy for the summer. There are scouts there a plenty, and no doubt a few minds will be made up, and players shortlisted for a further look. It's interesting to see some of the players who are not well known this side of the world playing, and of course, for a little fan-scouting!

Argentina are the hot favourites to win it for the record breaking 15th time (they're currently tied with Uruguay on 14, with Brazil on 7 and the other 4 or 5 teams on one or two wins). They're favourite because they brought the strongest squad, essentially everyone. Brazil left some notables in Europe - Kaka' and Ronaldinho would be the highest profiles of those left behind. But as they're Brazil, they're more or less 2nd favourite and kick off against Mexico in a hotly anticipated game tomorrow, late. The new ManUre boy Anderson is on the squad.

The Spanish teams seem to have an extensive and well informed scouting system down there - it's been extremely successful. But surely they can't have a stranglehold!

So far, if you haven't been checking, Peru beat Uruguay 3-0 in a surprise defeat for Uruguay. Forlan was useless, Pizarro (the new Chelski boy) played well from the 20 minutes or so I saw. In the second match, Venezuela (the hosts) were drawing 2-2 with Bolivia when I left it, on around 83 minutes.

Venezuela's midfield was horrendous, to be honest. Their notable player is Juan Arango from Mallorca. He was truly anonymous in the match. They did have a couple of saving graces - their left back was very good, for one. More on this below

Bolivia were really good until around 18 yards from goal - from their play elsewhere, they could have been one MILLION goals up. That's an exaggeration, but oh for a striker!

Which brings me neatly to the subject of a player that managed to impress the hell out of me on a poor Venezuelan team. Giancarlo Maldonado, the striker. He worked like a trojan until his substitution, and scored a very good goal to top it off. He had pace, power and finishing, although he was poor in the air. He tracked back constantly, reading the game very well and memorably getting back to stop a long range shot from a corner. Despite almost no service, he also played some excellent passes. He plays for the strangely named Deportivo O'Higgins in Chile, but I couldn't get a definitive age for him, it's either 1976 (making him 31) or 1982 (making him 25). I'm almost certain he's 25, by the way, with Football Manager 2007 getting the casting vote (Google wasn't very illuminating, I got both the dates there, but I've no Spanish so if anyone finds anything else I'd be interested to know).

Have to say, he's quite like Roberts without the heading, but with much better positioning and reading of the game.

Would be interested to hear of any other gems - obviously there'll be players like Messi there too, but they're currently out of our league.

[Kai]

The Spanish teams seem to have an extensive and well informed scouting system down there - it's been extremely successful. But surely they can't have a stranglehold!

I think that Spain also has some kind of immigration law(s) that apply specifically to certain South American countries which allows them to bring players from those countries in quite easily, whereas it can be kind of hard for English clubs to do so.

[frosty]

It's a shame all the games are on at midnight and early morning, I was hoping to watch some of the tournament.

[Jordan]

Got a few bets on this but the one which most took my fancy was 8/1 on Messi top scorer.

[blue/white]

good post, Darren.

I think the Chilean side Deportivo O'Higgins is named in honor of

Admiral Bernardo O'Higgins, a chilean patriot of Irish lineage.

I'm a bit nervous of all the Argentine side is garnering... seems strangely reminiscent

of Japan '02 and something like Germany '06. I 've a strange feeling that we'll win

naught with the current set of players... a few too many bottlers on that side..

Not as many as the Mexican side have... but still... makes me nervous.

[cn174]

Managed to watch all of the first game last night...not much brilliant defending going on, but plenty of attacking. Ecuador should've made it 3-1 in the first half and had it done and dusted really. But the Chile goalkeeper played pretty well - made several good saves and caught the ball from crosses etc which is quite unusual for a South American keeper.

Didn't see much of the Brazil game, but saw the excellent free kick from Morales for the second goal.

[DanLad]

I think that Spain also has some kind of immigration law(s) that apply specifically to certain South American countries which allows them to bring players from those countries in quite easily, whereas it can be kind of hard for English clubs to do so.

We're all EU now, aren't we so that shouldn't matter.

I think it's because a lot of the South Americans can claim dual citizenship with Spain.

[Billy Castell]

I think there is a certain amount of variation over immigration laws regarding non-EU nationals. That's why it is so hard to get sh_t hot 16 year old players from South America in FM!

[Maverick]

We're all EU now, aren't we so that shouldn't matter.

I think it's because a lot of the South Americans can claim dual citizenship with Spain.

Don't United kingdom and Australia have immigration laws that don't apply to the rest of EU?

[American]

good post, Darren.

I think the Chilean side Deportivo O'Higgins is named in honor of

Admiral Bernardo O'Higgins, a chilean patriot of Irish lineage.

I'm a bit nervous of all the Argentine side is garnering... seems strangely reminiscent

of Japan '02 and something like Germany '06. I 've a strange feeling that we'll win

naught with the current set of players... a few too many bottlers on that side..

Not as many as the Mexican side have... but still... makes me nervous.

Ah, but who do you support in tonight's match?

I think I have a new second favorite team - Deportivo O'Higgins!

[daren]

Saw Mexico's first goal last night. Wow, that was some fancy footwork keeping it in the air and flicking it over those defenders and the keeper. Is that chap for sale!

[daren]

good post, Darren.

I think the Chilean side Deportivo O'Higgins is named in honor of

Admiral Bernardo O'Higgins, a chilean patriot of Irish lineage.

I'm a bit nervous of all the Argentine side is garnering... seems strangely reminiscent

of Japan '02 and something like Germany '06. I 've a strange feeling that we'll win

naught with the current set of players... a few too many bottlers on that side..

Not as many as the Mexican side have... but still... makes me nervous.

Heh, the Brazilians won't thank you for the last comment.

As a bit of info, there's also an O'Higgins Region in Chile, and they play in the capital of that. It's, sadly, not also called O'Higgins. It's Rancagua. Named after Bernardo O'Higgins, as you mentioned.

I'm fairly confident in Argentina, Uruguay were very poor against Peru, and Brazil don't really look up to it if last night was anything to go by. Mexico, as you mentioned do tend to bottle it... and don't have the quality that Argentina do. I've written off 8 teams there, but Peru, while well organised, shouldn't be too much of a problem, Chile's defence on the evidence of yesterday isn't up to containing Messi and Tevez and Saviola and so on and so forth Venezuela would be better off with no midfield and Bolivia need a decent striker or four. The US aren't in a position to challenge... so that more or less takes the main contenders out of it.

We'll see, though. As I mentioned, my main interest is to spot a gem or two in the mix, out of curiosity

[RoversFanUSA]

To add to Americans lovley post. The USA is coming off a fresh gold cup win over mexico and has to jump start copa america bid agenst Argentina (i think). I belive there in the same group as Columbia and Paraguay so there in for a fight seeing as most of there better players have been called back to there MLS and respitive teams due to a FIFA rule stating that the teams dont have to relise there players for this tourney when called on by there Natinal squad. So im thinking we wont get out of the group stages sadly.

I did get to watch a little of the bolivia game and it wasnt all that good althought there strikers good at times but not in top form. There should have been a lot more goals on both ends but i think the lack of finshing and composer in the 18yd box hurt both sides really.

Over all looking forward to wacthing some good footy seeing as Rovers arnt yet playing . I would like to now start taking bets on whos gonna win the copa, whos gonna apper in the final, and what will the end score of the final game will be. The winner will walk away with the highly coveted "over the internet high five"from me personley . Please start placing your bets now!!!

[FourLaneBlue]

I don't think the US have too much of a chance. Their squad seems to be made up of mainly youth players and I think Kasey Keller is the only player who has Copa America experience. It seems to be more of an Under-23 squad rather than the best of the nation.

Argentina, already the favourites, will be even more so after Brazil's capitulation. For some reason though Argentina seem to be chokers. In good positions in the World Cup and even heavier favourites to win the previous Copa final and they capitulated. As for 2002 when they had been built up as favourites for years beforehand...

One team to watch out for could be Colombia. They don't score too many but their defence is probably the best in the tournament. If they score they are good at 'shutting up shop' as they say. Greece showed how far a rigid defence can take you. Having said that they will probably now let in a hatful...

[FourLaneBlue]

One team to watch out for could be Colombia. They don't score too many but their defence is probably the best in the tournament. If they score they are good at 'shutting up shop' as they say. Greece showed how far a rigid defence can take you. Having said that they will probably now let in a hatful...

[American]

I don't think the US have too much of a chance. Their squad seems to be made up of mainly youth players and I think Kasey Keller is the only player who has Copa America experience. It seems to be more of an Under-23 squad rather than the best of the nation.

The Gold Cup was the priority as winning it gave us the Confederations Cup berth for CONCACAF.

1-1 right now, Keller with a rare mistake.

[Roar of the Rover]

Another 20 odd passes goal from Argentina. They played total football yesterday and brushed the Americans away. Crespo looked sharp as always.

[Oklahoma]

As a Benfica fan, my attention is in Paraguai and in the new signing Oscar Cardozo. Hope he is the striker Benfica needs.

One player that might be interesting for Rovers is Roque Santa Cruz. He is on his way out of Bayern and shouldn't be very expensive.

I think that Argentina will beat Mexico in the final 2-1.

[RoverInWigan]

NOTICED CASTILLO THE FORWARD FOR MEXICO WAS OUTSTANDING THE OTHER NIGHT AGAINST BRAZIL EVEN THOUGH HE MISSEDA SITTER TOWARDS THE END OF THE MATCH. THE COMMENTATOR SAID THE TOP 4 CLUBS HAD BEEN KEEPING THEIR TABS ON HIM BUT NEVER SAID WHERE HE IS CURRENTLY PLAYING. CAN ANYBODY SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS PLAYER

[daren]

Nery Castillo (Olympiakos),

[blue/white]

Castillo 's lineage is Uruguayan apparently, similar to Tab Ramos (ex USA) and Claudio Reyna whose parents emigrated to Mexico when they were teens. In Nery's case, he was undecided as to which shirt to don internationally, but that greasey Sanchez seems to have persuaded him to wear Mexico's gag inducing green kit.

That's why he 's heads & shoulders above any Mexican striker i've seen in decades....

--cause he's not mexican, get it?

[Silencio]

Castillo 's lineage is Uruguayan apparently, similar to Tab Ramos (ex USA) and Claudio Reyna whose parents emigrated to Mexico when they were teens. In Nery's case, he was undecided as to which shirt to don internationally, but that greasey Sanchez seems to have persuaded him to wear Mexico's gag inducing green kit.

That's why he 's heads & shoulders above any Mexican striker i've seen in decades....

--cause he's not mexican, get it?

Dunno about the best in decades, Hugo Sanchez was better....

[cn174]

The Gold Cup was the priority as winning it gave us the Confederations Cup berth for CONCACAF.

Just watchng the Argentina vs Peru game on sky now and the commentators suggest that USA will not be invited back to the Copa America next time round due to their 'lack of respect' for the tournament.

[American]

What we really need is to combine the 2 tournaments. We didn't respect it because the Gold Cup was more important. Imagine Benni being gone for 2 tournaments this winter, not just one, or Bentley having to play 2 tournaments during break. This is why we didn't send most players to both. The money of the Confederations Cup and the experience of playing in S. Africa a year before the World Cup was why we chose to put all our eggs in the Gold Cup basket.

That being said, most of the players sent seemed to lie down and give up after a great first half against Argentina.

[AggyBlue]

As a Benfica fan, my attention is in Paraguai and in the new signing Oscar Cardozo. Hope he is the striker Benfica needs.

One player that might be interesting for Rovers is Roque Santa Cruz. He is on his way out of Bayern and shouldn't be very expensive.

I think that Argentina will beat Mexico in the final 2-1.

This could turn out to be the best call of the season