[Archived] Nicko's Thread

[Jordan]

:lol: honest?! you think we'd actually make up that we had heard of them before? believe it or not, some of us are a little more outward looking in our footballing scope than just the 11 players who line up on the pitch for blackburn every week. they werent that obscure, samba excepted.

Anyone with a slight knowledge of european football would have heard of Santa Cruz prior to his signing....surely. Same goes for Bentley

[den]

Good managers will sign more good players than they do bad. In Hughes' case the good outweigh the bad in a massive way. It's arguably his greatest asset - and we're stifling it.

The idea is completely flawed there Toogs. hughes has signed bad 'uns - and even he says he can't go on picking bargains for ever.

So is this policy only for the duration of Hughes at Ewood - what about the next manager who is only human. Does the policy end there, or do we continue to sell the best players, only to buy bad 'uns to replace them?

[bellamy11]

Yeah I find it hard to believe that people hadn't heard of Santa Cruz. In his early days at Bayern he was one of the more highly-regarded players in Europe. Likewise Bentley had a lot of press over on these shores. I seem to remember Tord Grip saying Bentley was one of the players who could go on to be a big hit in the national side (along with Jon Stead!!).

I defy anybody to have known anything about Samba, however.

I'd lean towards Toogs' and Drog's way of thinking regarding the selling of players. No team can easily improve itself when selling its best players, but with the acumen of Hughes I would always be confident that any money would be in good hands. The most pertinent point of the debate has been said by Neil - why can't we sell our greatest assets on our own terms? If Bentley becomes an England regular we could command anything towards £20m from a 'Big' club. At that point, we'd be absolutely mad not to sell.

Souness did not reinvest the Duff money very well, but in hindsight Damien is a shell of his former self and will never be worth as much as that again. Likewise Dunn - we sold him at close to his peak value considering his inability to cement a place in the England squad. His injury record has since ruined any chances he had of becoming a top player, and now he too is not the player he once was.

I'd argue that we're far more likely to fall away with people like that, than by getting a lot of money for our biggest assets and reinvesting in suitable replacements.

[Rovermatt]

This is exactly the point John. We paid circa £5m for all 3 for gooness sake! If my auntie had ###### and all that BUT IF RSC keeps on as he is doing, IF Bentley becomes an England regular and IF Samba learns how to defend in the air as well as on the floor there's a good chance that they could now be worth 5, 6 or even 7 times that total amount. How many more bargains are developing out there as we speak? The world is one big place. btw Can I ask our members who had heard of any 2 of em ... or even any of em before Sparky brought them in? Be honest now.

Anyone with a decent knowledge of the game would certainly have heard of Santa Cruz (who played in 2 World Cups prior to joining us) and Bentley (a very hot prospect at Arsenal).

[T4E]

Clever example using Everton & Rooney. Pity we don't have one of the world's top players on our books, and the biggest club in the world trying to sign him.

I doubt Moyes would look to sell Arteta or Cahill now, unless either of them really wanted to leave. Moyes has had the luxury of continuity at Everton.

Hughes would hate having to sell his best player every season, and have to replace them firstly, then hope to add further quality. Continuity builds successful sides.

You're right, I'm sure Moyes wouldn't sell either at the moment. But then, they're on the verge of Champions League football, and have managed to sign the likes of Johnson, Lescott, Yakubu, Cahill and Neville for the amount they sold Rooney for. It's an extreme example, of course, and they've made far more of it than I'd expect Hughes to do with £12m for Bentley. As I say, one sale of that size every 3 or so seasons would be enough to keep us in the exhalted company we currently enjoy.

The idea is completely flawed there Toogs. hughes has signed bad 'uns - and even he says he can't go on picking bargains for ever.

So is this policy only for the duration of Hughes at Ewood - what about the next manager who is only human. Does the policy end there, or do we continue to sell the best players, only to buy bad 'uns to replace them?

This is the point Den - Hughes cannot continue to pick up bargains and keep us in top 10 contention on a pittance. He may, however, be able to bring in players good enough to improve us as a unit if he can spend a bit more cash. He's proved he can do it on a shoestring, but we cannot carry on pushing our luck with that. Time to raise some real funds and see what he can really do.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Anyone with a decent knowledge of the game would certainly have heard of Santa Cruz (who played in 2 World Cups prior to joining us) and Bentley (a very hot prospect at Arsenal).

But nobody was on here touting that we should buy them - in fact, Santa got some very unfavourable reactions on here - and other managers weren't snapping them up either. Hughes saw potential that others didn't, and both are clearly worth far more than he paid for them.

It's all about semantics: are we a selling club or should we be a wheeling and dealing club? Same thing in my eyes. And since we don't have a pot to p!ss in and the Academy is only good for producing Sunday Combination players, I don't see how we can be anything else.

[John]

Hughes cannot continue to pick up bargains and keep us in top 10 contention on a pittance. He may, however, be able to bring in players good enough to improve us as a unit if he can spend a bit more cash. He's proved he can do it on a shoestring, but we cannot carry on pushing our luck with that. Time to raise some real funds and see what he can really do.

Your idea won't happen under Hughes' management though.....

[1864roverite]

Now for a nicko scoopesque bit of news. I am off into hospital early am tomorrow and have just had my pie eating mate around who is a big wigan fan. He tells me that Rovers are in negotiation with them over payment terms for Koumas and that a fee has been all but agreed between them and two other clubs. Its is not the fee but the payment terms that is causing the stumbling block.

Koumas is being sold as a result of a flare up between him and a well known Wigan forward who likes falling on his backside and talks with a bit of a scouse/midland accent !!!

When I get out of hossie on Thursday he may well have signed !

[Paul Mellelieu]

Something VERY wrong.

Kevin Pezzoni had broken into the German U21 squad - but was playing for our U18s (possibly a disciplinary measure for taking a few extra days unauthorised holiday but it was, imo an excessive punishment).

I'LL TRY THAT ONE WITH MY BOSS NEXT HOLIDAY

Juhvel Tsomou (another German), star striker of the U18s, wanted to train with the reserves and get some more time playing for the reserves but wasn't allowed - he departed and now, still at teenager, he is involved in the Eintracht Frankfurt FIRST TEAM squad in the Bundesliga.

ARE YOU SURE THAT'S THE FULL STORY? NO SIGN OF HIM ON THE EF SITE

Pezzoni, too, is apparently involved in FC Koln's first team squad.

IS HE, OR ISN'T HE? KOLN ARE IN THE GERMAN 2ND DIVISION

Mamadi Keita's situation is the worst of the lot - it seems to me. He was the best midfielder, arguably player, in the U18s

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

But it's worse. Apparently, he was fined for getting a lift into training rather than walking. Okay - rules are rules - but Glynn Hodges was the man who offered the lift, and other players have got lifts and only received final warnings. Firstly, is the youth management so out of sync that Hodges doesn't know the rules (albeit petty) of the academy - and what does that say about the synergy between reserve and academy level?

Secondly, the academy scene seems to operate an unfair system of favouritism.

THAT'S AN INCREDIBLE CLAIM TO MAKE. I HOPE YOU CAN BACK IT UP IF SOMEONE IN THE CLUB SPOTS IT

All this has culminated in Keita deciding that he wants out; he handed in a transfer request recently.

Now all this might sound like me relaying gripes from a guy not good enough and can't accept it. Well, ROvers let Keita have a week's trial at Hamburg, one of Germany's biggest clubs I think, and their Manager is interested in signing Keita permanently now. He'll probably be off soon.

HE'S ON TRIAL FOR HAMBURG'S SECOND TEAM I BELIEVE FROM THE WEB

Where have I heard this from? Someone very close to the Rovers academy scene and someone who has no reason to lie about this stuff. Sure, it is only one side of the story. YOU'VE ALREADY MADE YOUR MIND UP

The club have their side and because I don't know it, I can't reach any concrete judgments. YOU HAVE DONE.

However, it does not look good - does it. Someone is working hard to recruit these talented players from abroad and they are not being treated right by the academy and we are letting talent slip through our hands.

YOU SAID "SOMETHING VERY WRONG" (SIC)

Keith Barker was a reserve regular for years. These German lads couldn't, in some cases, even train with the reserves.

EVER WONDERED IF THESE LADS MISS HOME, AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH?

[RevidgeBlue]

Now for a nicko scoopesque bit of news. I am off into hospital early am tomorrow and have just had my pie eating mate around who is a big wigan fan. He tells me that Rovers are in negotiation with them over payment terms for Koumas and that a fee has been all but agreed between them and two other clubs. Its is not the fee but the payment terms that is causing the stumbling block.

Koumas is being sold as a result of a flare up between him and a well known Wigan forward who likes falling on his backside and talks with a bit of a scouse/midland accent !!!

When I get out of hossie on Thursday he may well have signed !

Sorry, not sure if I am reading that right. Are you saying there are three clubs in for Koumas including Rovers and all three are happy with the fee but not with the proposed payment terms?

Or that two other clubs apart from Rovers have agreed a fee with Wigan but not payment terms?

EDIT: Just re-read it and I presume you mean there is one other club apart from Rovers in the running.

Thanks for sharing.

[Eddie]

I thought YOU would have eddie.

How could I not have heard of Bentley, a player who must surely have played against us, if not he at least played in many premiership games. I even remember seeing a piece on TV about how he liked being at Norwich as it was quiet and away from a lot of the distractions that had got him in trouble in the past, it was on some premier league preview show.

As for Santa Cruz, I've already said that he was touted as one of the best young players in the world when he first signed for Bayern. Anyone who payed even a little attention to European leagues, European competitions and international football would have heard of him, they even made a pretty big fuss about him when England played against Paraguay in the 2006 World Cup.

[mattjansen]

Anyone with a slight knowledge of european football would have heard of Santa Cruz prior to his signing....surely. Same goes for Bentley

Well thats the thing, heard of them, Bentley i have seen play for Norwich but cant remember anything but tricks and a strange haircut. Santa Cruz was well known but i have not seen him play but for the game between Sweden and Paraguay in the world cup. He was touted as the most handsome, not woman cause thats Rachel Unitt, in football.

[thenodrog]

How could I not have heard of Bentley, a player who must surely have played against us, if not he at least played in many premiership games. I even remember seeing a piece on TV about how he liked being at Norwich as it was quiet and away from a lot of the distractions that had got him in trouble in the past, it was on some premier league preview show.

As for Santa Cruz, I've already said that he was touted as one of the best young players in the world when he first signed for Bayern. Anyone who payed even a little attention to European leagues, European competitions and international football would have heard of him, they even made a pretty big fuss about him when England played against Paraguay in the 2006 World Cup.

I thought I agreed that you were the font of all wisdom eddie?

aside......Methinks he doth protest too much.

Not having much interest in European football and virtually none in South american I can honestly say that I had never haerd of either RSC or Samba. I knew Bentley was an Arsenal squad member but had no idea that he had been on loan to Norwich.

Blimey..... We're gonna need a polygraph on here soon.

[philipl]

Santa Cruz had been the coming never arriving mega star of the Bundesliga for about 6 seasons and Bentley was certainly well-known as the only English kid in that generation of Arsene's wonder kids and for being the one who didn't fit in. Always looked a bit of a flake at Arsenal and Norwich but he has built his strength at Rovers.

If Koumas is being shipped out by Bruce for disciplinary reasons, Wigan's scope for fee haggling is dimminished so long as no other clubs are around making nuisances of themselves Celtic.

I'm not ecstatic about adding Koumas and Faye but they certainly give us greater cover and competition for places in the midfield. Both have been spoken about in glowing terms for their performances on occasions and as complete numpties far more often. Let's see if the Rovers chemistry and Hughes/Bowen alchemy works for them.

I suspect we might see Valeri D arrive on some sort of deal allowing Jason Roberts to be shipped out giving Sparky some transfer room for maneovre on deadline day if (prayer mat ready) Huddlestone suddenly becomes available.

Anyway, good luck to 1864 for the operation.

[nicko]

Some bad news.

I hear that Ryan Nelsen has been for a scan today on an injury problem that has been affecting his form.

The big guy is honest enough to admit he has been poor and the final straw was his failure to get off the ground against Wheater for Boro's goal on Saturday.

The problem is, possibly, a recurrence of the hamstring problem that kept him out for ages. It is certainly in that area - around his backside - and the x-rays should prove what the trouble is.

Hate to be a scaremonger but I am told it will be a six-week absence from decent sources.

Also - Wigan want £5 million for Koumas and Faye has been OK.

And the Bulgarian striker won't be coming back in a hurry. Levski Sofia have said no to the terms on a possible loan deal.

AND GEORGE BURLEY FOR SCOTLAND? IF I HAD A KILT I WOULD BURN IT.

[cn_barlow]

Some bad news.

I hear that Ryan Nelsen has been for a scan today on an injury problem that has been affecting his form.

The big guy is honest enough to admit he has been poor and the final straw was his failure to get off the ground against Wheater for Boro's goal on Saturday.

The problem is, possibly, a recurrence of the hamstring problem that kept him out for ages. It is certainly in that area - around his backside - and the x-rays should prove what the trouble is.

Hate to be a scaremonger but I am told it will be a six-week absence from decent sources.

Also - Wigan want £5 million for Koumas and Faye has been OK.

And the Bulgarian striker won't be coming back in a hurry. Levski Sofia have said no to the terms on a possible loan deal.

AND GEORGE BURLEY FOR SCOTLAND? IF I HAD A KILT I WOULD BURN IT.

That news isnt so bad, Stick Zurab in at the back, he deserves a run in the team in his favoured position

[modes98]

Hate to be a scaremonger but I am told it will be a six-week absence from decent sources.

Also - Wigan want £5 million for Koumas and Faye has been OK

I hate to say it but it's a blessing in disguise. If the injury is the reason for his poor form then I'm sleeping a lot easier tonight. Nelsen has been a rock at the back until this season, where he has been shown up time and time again. Ooijer has kept up the good form that he was in before his injury and should be more than able to fill Ryan's boots to give him enough time to fully recover.

£5m is to much for Koumas, i understand that Wigan want to recover their outlay last summer but he is worth around £3m at best, unless your taking Fulham's transfer prices seriously. Faye will be a bit of relief from the worrying fact that Mokoena will be back shortly. Granted he is no world beater but he won't be any worse than the blunt axe.

[Torgeir]

Some bad news.

I hear that Ryan Nelsen has been for a scan today on an injury problem that has been affecting his form.

I'd almost go as far as saying this is good news, at least now we know the reason why he hasn't been performing up to par like we know he can, and if six weeks or two months out means he'll be 100% again then so be it - both Zurab and Ooijer can step in and do a better job than the admiral has been doing the past couple of months.

[Exiled_Rover]

If we've got £5m to spend on a midfielder, we'd best not waste it on Koumas.

[RevidgeBlue]

I'd almost go as far as saying this is good news, at least now we know the reason why he hasn't been performing up to par like we know he can, and if six weeks or two months out means he'll be 100% again then so be it

Seconded.

[RevidgeBlue]

Some bad news.

Also - Wigan want £5 million for Koumas

And the Bulgarian striker won't be coming back in a hurry. Levski Sofia have said no to the terms on a possible loan deal.

Koumas won't be happening then if that's true.

Not at all surprised by the other bit, why should any Club just give us their best players on loan? The least they'll be expecting by way of compensation is a transfer fee.

[American]

Agreeing slightly with Drog, I'd suggest that people read "Moneyball" by Michael Lewis. Different sport (baseball) but a similar idea is being used by the Oakland A's. They look for players who are undervalued and not appreciated by scouts who look at the way the player looks and not how they truly play (for example, Nelsen was probably not liked by others because he wasn't the swiftest, but he has good positional sense, which wasn't noticed).

The key is building up our scouting networks in some of the un-tapped areas of talent (Asia, Africa, Australia, US) and find these players.

[T4E]

If we've got £5m to spend on a midfielder, we'd best not waste it on Koumas.

Christ, you're not wrong. As much as I rate Koumas, £5m probably represents atleast 50% of our yearly transfer budget. If we're going to spend that much it should be on someone currently proving their worth in this league, not someone who Wigan want rid of.

[pksrover]

Something VERY wrong.

Kevin Pezzoni had broken into the German U21 squad - but was playing for our U18s (possibly a disciplinary measure for taking a few extra days unauthorised holiday but it was, imo an excessive punishment). Juhvel Tsomou (another German), star striker of the U18s, wanted to train with the reserves and get some more time playing for the reserves but wasn't allowed - he departed and now, still at teenager, he is involved in the Eintracht Frankfurt FIRST TEAM squad in the Bundesliga.

Pezzoni, too, is apparently involved in FC Koln's first team squad.

Juhvel Tsomou is NOT involved in the FIRST TEAM squad of Eintracht Frankfurt as far as I can see. He's not even in their U23 team, in according to their website he is playing for the U19 team, so that means the same level, or there abouts (not knowing the level of German youth football), as he was playing here in England.

And yes, Pezzoni is in FC Koln's first team squad. But they are playing, as Paul Mellelieu says, in 2.Bundesliga = Championship. We have to wait till after their winter break to see if he's in their matchday squads or not.

[Exiled_Rover]

Agreeing slightly with Drog, I'd suggest that people read "Moneyball" by Michael Lewis. Different sport (baseball) but a similar idea is being used by the Oakland A's. They look for players who are undervalued and not appreciated by scouts who look at the way the player looks and not how they truly play (for example, Nelsen was probably not liked by others because he wasn't the swiftest, but he has good positional sense, which wasn't noticed).

The key is building up our scouting networks in some of the un-tapped areas of talent (Asia, Africa, Australia, US) and find these players.

Except it's stat based analysis, something that doesn't lend itself to football.

Plus, as they proved this year (and most likely next judging by the current roster), they can afford to fail miserably without reprecussions - there is no relegation.