[Archived] Leeds

[USABlue]

Oh boy that really took me back! I must admit to being quite moist eyed listening to that. Oh the memories of 1976/77....sigh!

I hear that, turned 18, the long hot summer, more birds in line than ever, great summer. Great summer hols.

[Billy Castell]

Whilst I am not from East Yorkshire, my dads side of the family are from Scarborough, Hull and Hartlepool. There are a lot of people from the West Yorkshire area who have moved to the coast, and a lot are the effluent who support Leeds and come in my shop and racially abuse my Iranian co-worker. Imagine Lee Bowyer, but not as appealing, but just as nice to serve at 2 in the morning.

Anyhow, I do feel a bit bad about Scarborough, as I went to a few of their matches over the years, and saw them beat Man Citeh in a pre-season friendly with Andy ritchie outshining George Kinkladze. This is a link to Scarborough Athletic's website, which seems to have been adapted from the original teams site. It annoys me that the likes of Francesca Lampard moan about £115,000 p/w not being enough for a player of her reputation (of being crap for England), whilst he could save up for a few months and give the money to teams like Scarborough.

I should apologise for that little bit of sexism there. For a start female football players usually have much more humility than Frank, and actually play with pride and determination when they wear their national shirt.

[stuwilky]

Ouch, September 3rd court date.

Cant buy or sell players prior to then either, and it is obviously after the start of the season.

[philipl]

I think they can sell if it is to keep it alive.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I would hate such a scenario to happen at Rovers and take no joy from this at all.....regardless of how many knuckledraggers follow them off the pitch!

[1864roverite]

the club is on the way out of existance !

Just been put up for sale and it looks like they have been handed a major tax bill with ken Bates offer to the tax man having been rejected out of hand. They allegedly have debts totalling 33m, have no estate to re-mortgage and have a tax bill of something in the region of 1.6m that they want NOW !

So long Leeds

[den]

I think they owe the tax man £7m, 1864.

[key76]

Reading into it though, it's only HMRC which seem to have rejected the offer of 8p in the £1 for the clubs debt. Therefore if the group Bates fronts can offer something more substantial they will own the club soon enough.

I personally take no pleasure in a club like Leeds going to the wall despite the cross-pennines hatred they have exuded to us over the years. A club with a greater fan-base (being a city based club) yet still falling short of the success and achievements of Rovers in the last....what 15 years....at least?

[den]

Bates still talking tough and threatening legal action. LINK

[1864roverite]

I thoight Leeds had actually offered a structeured payment back to HMRC with 1.7m up front then over 5 yrs a payment system to reduce arrears totallying nealy 8m.

[Paul]

I suspect you're mixing up two different things there 1864. IMO originally HMRC were offered 1p in the £1 along with all other creditors, Bates made some remarks which appear to have upset HMRC who refused the offer. Bates upped his offer to 8p in £1. The total owed to HMRC is £7.7m

The 5 year thing is the offer he made to repay a further 30p in the £1 to all creditors if Leeds make it back to the PL inside 5 years, later Bates increased that offer to 10 years.

[Flopsy]

The question is whether the Revenue believe that Bates is good on his word, or is just trying to pull a fast one.

My view (from afar) is the guy is dodgy as sin and deserves what he gets. Unfortunately he wont suffer, it'll be the fans.

As usual

[RevidgeBlue]

Whilst I wouldn't class Bates as the most palatable of individuals, I wouldn't call him "dodgy" as such, just an extremely clever businessman who is very adept at using the law as it stands to his own advantage.

I'm sure the existing deal for Leeds for example isn't technically illegal, it's been concocted in conjunction with, and approved by, professional advisors.

It may stink, but if it can be done, it's the legislation which is at fault, not him.

Didn't he buy debt ridden Chelsea for a quid back in the 80's? To his credit he kept them afloat and how much did he make from selling to Abramovich? Probably has the same long term aspirations for Leeds.

On a separate note, I'm sure Bates originally had a business in this area and was quite pally with our former chairman Bill Fox. (No slight on Mr. Fox intended whatsoever)

[Fife Rover]

Whilst I wouldn't class Bates as the most palatable of individuals, I wouldn't call him "dodgy" as such, just an extremely clever businessman who is very adept at using the law as it stands to his own advantage.

I'm sure the existing deal for Leeds for example isn't technically illegal, it's been concocted in conjunction with, and approved by, professional advisors.

It may stink, but if it can be done, it's the legislation which is at fault, not him.

Didn't he buy debt ridden Chelsea for a quid back in the 80's? To his credit he kept them afloat and how much did he make from selling to Abramovich? Probably has the same long term aspirations for Leeds.

On a separate note, I'm sure Bates originally had a business in this area and was quite pally with our former chairman Bill Fox. (No slight on Mr. Fox intended whatsoever)

You are probably correct in your analysis of the situation re legality of Mr. Bates and his deals. And also that by the book and by todays standards of acceptable behaviour he is not "dodgy" just a "clever b*****d".

However, I personally am always filled with disgust and disdain by the kind of thinking that drives these people on towards their goal of getting rich as quick as possible and within the law (but only just), and indeed the very idea of seeking to find a loophole in the law to exploit, or spotting a weakness in the thinking of a business rival and exploiting that. For me these kind of things fly in the face of ethics and morality, and although legal, the use of such tactics is completely reprehensible and frankly it stinks. It results in the honest people always losing out while the dishonest but "clever" and legal charlatons just go on to get rich at honest peoples expense. Shades of Dickens and "A Christmas Carol" spring to mind.

[stuwilky]

I suspect that after the 1p in the £ offer Mr Bates wittering on about how much transfer money would be available hasnt gone down overly well with the lovely people at Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.

[Paul]

On a separate note, I'm sure Bates originally had a business in this area and was quite pally with our former chairman Bill Fox. (No slight on Mr. Fox intended whatsoever)

Don't know if he was friendly with Fox or not, it's likely they knew each other, but Bates had a haulage firm in the general area and was Chairman of Oldham Athletic for five years in the 60s.

[ABBEY]

GOOD RIDDANCE TO SCUM HOPEFULLY.....i remember em giving my ex bro in law a kicking,i rember being threatened with a knife in that tunnel outside walking back to the car and i remember em throwing a broken pint glass into a baby's pram outside debenhams......and thats just with rovers..LEEDS = SCUM

[thenodrog]

I know that LUFC have a bad reputation but if we followed that logic Abbey there'd be no football allowed in the entire country. It'd be Accy Stanley v Yeovil every Sat on MoTD.

[ABBEY]

NO LOGIC GORD..just personally hate em

[thenodrog]

My view (from afar) is the guy is dodgy as sin and deserves what he gets. Unfortunately he wont suffer, it'll be the fans.

As usual

Hard nosed, ruthless, driven ..... many definitions but I don't think dodgy applies to Ken Bates. Footballs littered with em btw. Sugar, Edwards, Lord, prob even the Walkers. Anybody that has made millions in their own lifetime from nowt has prob had to tear up some trees along the way. 'Popularity' on a cv is for 3 sectors only entertainers, politicians and losers.

[Cheshireblue]

Dodgy definitely DOES apply to good old cuddly Ken.

I could tell you some stories from his time at Chelsea that would make even Mike Ashley blush.

[Silencio]

Chelsea were very close to being wound up before Abramovich bought them...

[American]

I remember reading at the time that not much cash was spent on the purchase, it was mostly wiping out the debt that got Roman the club.

[philipl]

Bates got £18m for his stake which wasn't bad considering it was essentially worthless at the time. Something between £80m and £120m depending on reports went on sorting out the debts but in doing so, Abramovich got clean title to 14 acres of prime site in Chelsea worth about £500m if you moved the football club away....

Back to Leeds, this Guardian article summarises the situation as it stands this morning. No doubt, KPMG are talking with the Revenue to ascertain what their attitude would be to the bids submitted.

If I were a Leeds supporter, I would be fervently hoping that someone outbid Ken Bates. If Ken is the highest bidder, the Revenue might still get shirty about Ken having put it into CVA only to buy it back and walk away with debts reduced by a searing high percentage.

If no acceptable bids have been received, as the article suggest, Leeds are perilously close to liquidation. I still think the Football-preference debts (including the Rovers) could yet kill Leeds. Unlikely because somebody will bid with their heart rather than their head.

[den]

Philip, how does that article suggest that none of the bids are acceptable? I can't see that.