[Archived] Beckham In Town

[philipl]

That's going OTT.

MLS sides would not survive the EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A or La Liga. They might just about survive down the bottom end in France. They would be mid-table in the SPL and the Eredivisie and would give a decent account of themselves playing the likes of Bumley in the Coca Cola stuff.

[1864roverite]

Phil, I forgot the german and france leagues and considered putting the cypriot and maltese leagues in for good measure.

Please dont try and kid yourself or even me that the MLS teams could offer sustained footballing challenges in any of the aforementioned leagues. The plain fact of the matter is that they CANT and COULDNT even with David Beckham

[USRoverME]

Fair play to the lad for taking the 125m

I got to this point in your post and stopped reading..

fact: salary is 5 years 32.5 mil from the team...

everything else was estimated revenue from shirt sales etc....

off course, we should never let the facts get in the way of a good USA bashing, so go on.

But I have to ask, since you seemm to know alot about the quality of the MLs teams in comparison to other...

How many MLS matches have you watched, and how many matches in the Irish distillery's league?

[USABlue]

Since this came up, with American and I, what I did to day was force myself to watch New England and New York, well some of it, well OK part of the first half. To my surprise I did find the game somewhat interesting, not too bad of a pace and some decent skills. Big detracters from the game, crappy field with the NFL markings on it (can't tolerate that even in England with the rugger marks) Too big of a stadium with too small of a crowd in it. I can only hope the footy only stadiums that are springing up can be accelerated in their building.

Nice goal from the NE player, interviewed him at half time he had a English accent, wonder where he played his footy there. After halftime I had moved on, did not watch the rest. Juan Pablo Angel looked good, that perhaps tells us something. I will try to watch more in the coming weeks to make sure I have been fair in my assesment. All my opinions only you understand.

1864, your judgement is harsh, they are better than you may think, or actually they are better than you think.

[neekoy]

For the first time tonight we have the television show "Victoria Beckham - Coming to America", such wonderful plot lines like "I'm not happy with my drivers license photo can I get another one" and hear what Victoria had to say about "being the 'funny' wife of the sexiest man in sport"

[skiporovers]

I attended a Toronto FC match while I was in Canada in June nd apart from the fact that some fans dont have the capacity to sit in one place for 45 mins at a time, I was impressed! The Toronto fans are all really passionate and when i said about Becks they seemed to be looking at it from a point of view of hell be good to watch rather than Brand Beckham raising the profile of "Soccer"! TFC were playin Red Bulls that day and Angel outclassed everyone without really trying! But it emphasised that thats the type of players that league needs! Good Quality Premiership Players with experience, not global icons....If more Angels, Reynas etc go out there the league will get better but they shouldnt do an NASL and start bringing in Peles, Bests and Beckenbauers again or MLS will go the same way!

[American]

Since this came up, with American and I, what I did to day was force myself to watch New England and New York, well some of it, well OK part of the first half. To my surprise I did find the game somewhat interesting, not too bad of a pace and some decent skills. Big detracters from the game, crappy field with the NFL markings on it (can't tolerate that even in England with the rugger marks) Too big of a stadium with too small of a crowd in it. I can only hope the footy only stadiums that are springing up can be accelerated in their building.

Nice goal from the NE player, interviewed him at half time he had a English accent, wonder where he played his footy there. After halftime I had moved on, did not watch the rest. Juan Pablo Angel looked good, that perhaps tells us something. I will try to watch more in the coming weeks to make sure I have been fair in my assesment. All my opinions only you understand.

1864, your judgement is harsh, they are better than you may think, or actually they are better than you think.

I thought the second half was as good. Some good passing going on. To be fair, a lot of times you don't see a big string of possession from one side, but saw more of that tonight.

As for Dorman, he is from England (I think he's Welsh, but lived in England). He played with Clare's brother at some point.

I actually thought that Angel played like he had in England - good positions, crap finishing.

As for 1864, I don't respect his opinions enough to even respond...

[RoversFanUSA]

I hope you realize is that we Yanks who post on these boards are constantly fighting to have the sport that you were born into be accepted and loved by a country that sees it, generally, as strange and uninteresting...other than one to be played. So sometimes, it doesn't fit too well to have to fight against not only our own countrymen but also against those who should be natural allies. At that point, 5th rate comments tend to get responses.

I have to fullheartly agree with this statement. Having played football almost my intire life and having been asked why dont i play hockey (which i have) or even american football (which i also have played). Well i have to say i have played both sports (as stated above ) and have loved football since day one. Like seahawkdad said you all were fourtnet enough to be born in a country where football is a way of life and we have to fight for every inch gained. This whole Beckham thing is looked from my point of view and the view of many people i have talked to that he can do little to hurt the sport but only help to get people out to play it. I mean if by him coming out here to play and get payed can get one person to go in there closet and dust off there boots and start playing again, well then in my eyes hes worth all the money there paying him and more.

I also dont think that anyone here is trying to say that the MLS is trying to (at this point) be as good as the EPL or SPL or even La Liga. I think were just trying to point out that with what little football we have going here in the states were happy to have it.

Two more things. First of all if im correct the MLS "allstars" did beat Chelsea last year on the US tour, and like someone else montioned like Rovers no one can tell me that the team i support is 2nd rate let alone 5th rate like football was said to be in the US. Like you love your England MNT i love my USA MNT and no one can tell me different. We havent been playing as long competivly as most or almost all the other football nations but i think were coming along nicely. We IMO will one day be a team that will be feared to play. Not in the next 10 years but sooner or later we will be.

As for the womens team i just threw that in for good mesure to show were not totaly bad at the sport.

[speeeeeeedie]

If 1864 isn't on a wind up ignorance is showing. I don't think anyone would agree that the MLS is first rate, I don't follow it as I have regular access to Premier League games, but having sporadically watched games for nearly 10 years (As a side I saw Houston the other week and they looked very good) I would say that the calibre of player is improving, and the game is developing its own style. Skill wise I'd say that it was Championship level, but it's nowhere near as physical. There are a lot of Latin Americans playing so the pace is slower and you don't see blood and thunder tackles all day long. The MLS is doing a decent job, especially as it started from nothing, to try to latch onto a perceived market for football. Millions of kids were playing every weekend, FIFA granted the WC to the USA on the proviso that they got their league up and running so it made sense. For a better comparison you have to ask how the British basketball League is doing? British Ice Hockey? Both sports that have merit, but are not ingrained in British culture.

Sport in America is about entertainment and making money. Most English football teams lose money year on year and rely on fans who support through thick and thin with blind loyalty for revenue. There are thousands of journalists who jump on the sports gravy train churning out tripe everyday to keep people buying. One of my many favourites is that come the Superbowl/World Series/NBA final someone will moan that TV ratings will be bad as it's not New York v. LA (Chicago gets a sniff sometimes); they could care less who's really playing it's about maximizing earnings potential. This is starting to happen here as we witnessed in our FA Cup run this year.

Back to Beckham. He left Europe 2-3 years too early. He was fed up in Madrid as Capello didn't like him, he didn't leave in January so Simon Fuller ever ready to make some cash signed him up for LA on the promise of untold millions. Beckham goes to LA, his wife follows with an entourage and TV program, the Spice Girls are returning; it is all worked out. However Beckham started playing well in February, helped Madrid win the League, got Capello fired in the process, won back his England place then Madrid wanted to keep him. Ho hum.

I'll not mention women's football as I think that it is a different sport.

[1864roverite]

Seems to have hit a bit of a raw nerve aint it??

In answering some of the questions, I have actually seen 3 MLS games and 5 Irish games, all 8 were like watching Chorley reserves playing Rossendale United. The standard was nothing along the lines of entertainment more like kick and run.

I am not winding people up, it is my view and I am entitled to air it. If it differs with our American members then so be it. I deal in reality, and the reality is this MLS is seriously over hyped, Amercian soccer is overhyped, may be it is me or may be its the American thing in over hyping again.

The Yanks never do things in halves and for me the whole beckham farce is simply a circus USA style.

get over it boys and accept another view. This side of the pond knows what football is about, the yanks are learning but are nowhere near the mid range standard of football we see in Europe, and that includes Latvia and the like.

[Eddie]

I've heard a few players who have played in both Europe and the MLS compare it to the bottom half of the championship and top of league one.

[ABBEY]

I hope you realize is that we Yanks who post on these boards are constantly fighting to have the sport that you were born into be accepted and loved by a country that sees it, generally, as strange and uninteresting...other than one to be played. So sometimes, it doesn't fit too well to have to fight against not only our own countrymen but also against those who should be natural allies. At that point, 5th rate comments tend to get responses.

ort.

sounds like me with nfl

[Eddie]

Yeah...but that's a crap sport

[speeeeeeedie]

I deal in reality, and the reality is this MLS is seriously over hyped, Amercian soccer is overhyped, may be it is me or may be its the American thing in over hyping again.

Football in America is not over hyped, but I need it to be sustainable so that TV companies continue to buy the Premier League so I can watch BRFC most weeks.

The Yanks never do things in halves and for me the whole beckham farce is simply a circus USA style.

I agree. It's all in the marketing.

get over it boys and accept another view. This side of the pond knows what football is about, the yanks are learning but are nowhere near the mid range standard of football we see in Europe, and that includes Latvia and the like.

Somewhat agree. It's better than the LoW and the Irish League. What constitues "mid-range"? Could anyone post a Euro league table?

Seems to have hit a bit of a raw nerve aint it??

I wouldn't say that, it's just that Yank football followers have to defend themselves constantly against ignorant locals having a go so they have a decent defence to it. Your average journalist doesn't like football and will do whatever to put it down, your comments sound just like their ignorant ones.

[Eddie]

Somewhat agree. It's better than the LoW and the Irish League. What constitues "mid-range"? Could anyone post a Euro league table?

Premiership

La Liga (depends on who you ask, but I put these two first or second)

Large Gap

Serie A

Small Gap

Bundesliga

Huge Gap

Eredivisie

Ligue 1

Portugal

After that it would be a complicated mix of second divisions from those leagues and first divisions from elsewhere. Almost every league in Europe has a team that could happily compete in one of the big leagues, I'm not sure if the same can be said for the MLS and that actually says a lot.

[American]

I wouldn't say that, it's just that Yank football followers have to defend themselves constantly against ignorant locals having a go so they have a decent defence to it. Your average journalist doesn't like football and will do whatever to put it down, your comments sound just like their ignorant ones.

His comments on most subjects are ignorant, so I can just ignore. Let's not bother with the fact MLS teams have a winning record against Premiership teams (and yes, I know they are exhibitions).

I find one of the most interesting obstacles against soccer growing in the US is the fans themselves. There are many US fans who are always on about who is the better fan. It makes it tough for people to start following the sport because they just get beaten back with "you don't know anything - I know all having followed the sport since I was in the womb." If you want to see some examples of this, try perusing the bigsoccer.com forums.

[USRoverME]

yeah, that's why I stopped reading bigsoccer before I really even started....

but to be fair, that's something that's not unique to America...

[1864roverite]

American

I am sorry if my comments seem to have caused you some grief. I dont personally see myself as anti USA, the comments on here were initially about the beckham farce/circus and have now gone on to my rating of MLS.

I actually have a lot of time for the Yanks in all they do, I was beside them in 1990 when together we kicked Fatboy Saddam out of Kuwait. I have lived and worked in USA and for me they have some seriously nice people.

As with all races and creed, all backgrounds and experiences there are differing opinions. I have mine you ahve yours. I am not being ignorant in any way shape or form, it is my view simple as that.

I am probably suffering from holiday mode, pre flight anxiousness or even pre match tension so I send my heartfelt apologies for offending our American supporters.

Now then, as I finish packing, can we have an argument about how good American beer is ? I mean for me Bud is number 1 but I do like Michelob and Busch however there are lesser lights such as the silver bullet and I for think that is bloody awful. How do you take yours???

[American]

Jack Daniels.

Though my last name is Bud(d) and my mother's was Miller, I can't stand beer.

[philipl]

MLS is Championship level according to a player who has experience of EPL, MLS and Championship

PS Championship teams do beat EPL teams in the Cups so friendly pre-season games against EPL sides are meaningless.

[American]

For the first time tonight we have the television show "Victoria Beckham - Coming to America", such wonderful plot lines like "I'm not happy with my drivers license photo can I get another one" and hear what Victoria had to say about "being the 'funny' wife of the sexiest man in sport"

Best.

TV show.

Ever.

Set new heights on the Unintentional Comedy scale. In one way I now know why the English hate her so much (very haughty), in another I can see what David sees in her (fun gal).

[RoversFanUSA]

Jack Daniels.

Though my last name is Bud(d) and my mother's was Miller, I can't stand beer.

American have you tryed Gentelman jack? If you have not try it. Its the best theng EVER...Even better then victoria beckham coming to town!!! Its a lovley sprit just devine!!!

[Texan Rover]

Almost every league in Europe has a team that could happily compete in one of the big leagues, I'm not sure if the same can be said for the MLS and that actually says a lot.

What it says, I think, is that there's competitive balance in MLS. Right or wrong, this is something that is considered desirable in all American sports. (As an aside, it's kind of amusing that as a matter of politics or economics, far more Americans believe in unregulated competition and the operation of free markets than Europeans, but in sport it seems to be the opposite.)

Now if one MLS club were allowed to buy up all the established stars and promising young players from all the other clubs, that side would almost certainly "happily compete in one of the big leagues." The U.S. is one of the few countries where the national team is likely better than any of the clubs, which speaks to the decentralization of talent (as well as, to be fair, the difficulty of attracting foreign stars to MLS). Now an MLS XI would probably be competitive with the national team, and the reality is that the big clubs -- Man Utd, Chelsea, AC Milan, Real, Barca, Lyon, Ajax, Porto, Bayern, not to mention Wisla Krakow, Dynamo Kiev, Dinamo Zagreb, Olympiakos, Rangers, Celtic, FC Copenhagen, Rosenborg, etc -- are little more than Best XIs from their own leagues.

Now I'm digressing, and maybe I didn't properly understand your point. But what I'm trying to say is that I don't think the lack of one dominant club says anything about the quality of the league. I, like most fans of European football, can find something to enjoy even when watching a match where I'm 95% certain of the result. But I think there's something to be said for a game where you really have no idea what's going to happen beforehand, and that's the case for probably 9 in 10 MLS matches.

[philipl]

I think those are excellent points which probably explain why a European super-league will not happen.

If you put Chelsea, Arsenal, Mancs, Liverpool, Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve, Inter, AC and Roma into a league, one of them by definition will come bottom, only one can win.

That would be too great a shock to the collective psyches of their fans who are used to completely biased games generating win after win after win.

Last season, Chelsea saw as a failure- two Cups, EPL runners-up and CL semi-finalists!

In America, even the biggest clubs taste success only occasionally for the most part.

[Texan Rover]

I think those are excellent points which probably explain why a European super-league will not happen.

If you put Chelsea, Arsenal, Mancs, Liverpool, Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve, Inter, AC and Roma into a league, one of them by definition will come bottom, only one can win.

That would be too great a shock to the collective psyches of their fans who are used to completely biased games generating win after win after win.

And you've highlighted a huge difference in the sporting cultures of Europe and America: here fans realize that the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Cowboys, Redskins, Lakers, Celtics, Red Wings, Bruins, etc are sometimes going to be crap.