[Archived] England's Injury Crisis

[roversmum]

I believe Heskey is still recovering from injury.

[gazsimm]

I believe Heskey is still recovering from injury.

yes he is still injured we could have done with him last night

[broadsword]

For those xenophobes who derided Eriksson and insisted that the next coach be English, this is the consequence when you over-promote someone not up to the job.

I don't mind what nationality the next coach is (and presumably McLaren will get the shove soon), I just want England TO WIN.

Eriksson had his day and it was time for him to go.

[Hughesy]

Yesterday McClaren made some big mistakes.

Robinson is having a terrible season. Rooney Cant play alongside owen.

For at least the 2nd half Bentley and Crouch should of played, rather than Rooney & SWP.

[speeeeeeedie]

England have won one trophy (and reached one final) of a leading tournament in their history. Compare and contrast with Italy, Germany, France and Brazil. For supposedly one of the world's leading football nation (and home to allegedly the best league in the world), England's international record is pathetic and embarrassing.

The naked truth does hurt. We do have a blinkered view of ourselves on the world stage. For more than a generation now English players have been technically substandard compared to the teams Jim Mk2 listed, plus a whole host more. Brazil, Italy and Germany are the elite, Argentina next, then France who have elevated themselves over the past 25 years. We are nowhere near those teams. Bad coaching, arrogance, the English football psyche, an inept governing body, and the formation of the Premier League are all culpable factors in England's inability to conquer.

I'm still not buying the pitch argument. We shot our load after Croatia and Macedonia last year, not last night. Over 11 games we've not been good enough. I still do believe that it's not over though as Israel are not a bad team and the Russians will find it tough there. I also think that we will beat Croatia, unfortunately the outcome is not in our hands.

I'm also leaning toward the oust Rooney camp. I think we have another Lampard-Gerrard situation, and as Owen always turns it on for England and Rooney is fleeting you have to go with Owen, regardless of Rooney's talent. The question should be, who plays as the second striker?

[bblue]

I don't mind what nationality the next coach is (and presumably McLaren will get the shove soon), I just want England TO WIN.

Eriksson had his day and it was time for him to go.

Yeah, when was Eriksson blamed for not being English? He was just useless, well, far behind what had been expected of him in the job.

[RoyRover]

England have won one trophy (and reached one final) of a leading tournament in their history. Compare and contrast with Italy, Germany, France and Brazil. For supposedly one of the world's leading football nation (and home to allegedly the best league in the world), England's international record is pathetic and embarrassing.

The naked truth does hurt. We do have a blinkered view of ourselves on the world stage. For more than a generation now English players have been technically substandard compared to the teams Jim Mk2 listed, plus a whole host more. Brazil, Italy and Germany are the elite, Argentina next, then France who have elevated themselves over the past 25 years. We are nowhere near those teams.

What you have both said here is so true. For too long England have seen themselves as one of the elite teams in world football without much basis for it. Let's make one thing clear from the start, England have some world class players. Terry, Gerard, Lampard, Rooney and Owen are some of the best players in the world. However the teams that jim mk2 has named also have this sort of talent at their disposal, but have the correct coaching and tactical structures in place for their countries to succeed or at least make an impact at a tournament. England's last few efforts at international tournaments have been poor and this hasn't been helped by inconsistent performances during qualification. Yet whenever have finally made it through, people always view England as a major threat to the other nations, despite having achieved very little in past tournaments or failing to regularly impress in international matches.

Even though England have some great players that don't have a particularly good team and despite them looking better over the last couple of games, there has been no sign that they would be able to compete with recognised world powers like Italy, France, Argentina or Brazil on the big stage. These nations know how to play at the top level, how to keep the ball, slow a game down and take the chances that come their way.

Last night on MOTD Gary Lineker asked Hansen and Shearer what type of tournament the European Championships it would be without England? They all agreed that it would be a lesser one. This totally stunned me. No doubt it will be a big disappoint to their fans if they weren't to qualify, but the tournament would not suffer at all because England have added very little to them over the past couple of years. I'm glad to see other nations like Romania qualifying, giving the world the chance to see what good teams the smaller nations are. It offers the chance to world class players from smaller nations like Christian Chivu, to represent their country at a major tournament which must be the highlight of their careers.

As for the game last night, England defended very well for the first 65 minutes. They battled and worked hard and even though the Russians had plenty of possession, they couldn't make a clear cut chance. People who blame the pitch for the defeat are clutching at straws I'm afraid. The Russians needed to win, you can't blame them for wanting to play on a pitch which they were more used to, in front of 80,000 fans. If it were the other way around England would be looking to get as big an advantage as possible. The 'penalty' should never have been awarded and even though MOTD failed to mention that Rooney was offside for his goal, plenty of people have pointed this out, so it evens itself out. Robinson was definately at fault for the second goal. England still have a chance to qualify, Russia beating Israel is far from a formality, but it doesn't look good.

It could be worse, you could support the Republic Of Ireland, who've gone completely to the dogs. Steve Staunton should be kicked out as soon as possible. He's even worse than Steve McClaren. During and for a short while after the 2002 World Cup, Ireland were a seriously good team, they were 12th in the world I think. But since then it's been getting worse and last night it took a 93rd minute goal by Steve Finnan to scrap a draw againt a Cypriot team that should have scored three of four.

[USABlue]

For those xenophobes who derided Eriksson and insisted that the next coach be English, this is the consequence when you over-promote someone not up to the job

Jim in fairness I think it is safe to say, of those wanting an English manager 98% of them did not want McClaren. The other 2% would be the FA and their idiots.

Some of the blame rests squarely on the players failure to get up for games against inferior opposition. To me some of the England players act like playing the minnows is more a pain in hte arse than a honour. Those are the games that have cost us. I said McClaren would not get us to the Euro's from the beginning and I firmly believe had it not been for the injuries forcing McClaren into the selections he made against Israel and the first Russia game last nights game would have meant nothing, we'd have been out already.

Oh and the plastic pitch crap, there is one player in the camp that I think would have benefited from that pitch. The man has excellent technical ability, someone a pitch like that with it's even and true bounces would benefit. That man is none other that D. Bentley, McClaren hasn't even the sense to pick up on that. SWP has, in my opinion been abysmal, I am not sure I have seen any of his crosses make it into the box. But that's McClaren, no balls, that's why he was hired. Must be conservative in all aspects.

[MI ROVER]

Yesterday McClaren made some big mistakes.

Robinson is having a terrible season. Rooney Cant play alongside owen.

I would prefer a Ashton Rooney partnership as I agree that rooney and owen can't play together (goal was a one off). The ball just kept coming back putting our defence under increasing pressure.

It was unfortunate Ashton got injured the w/e previous but still think Mac wouldn't have started him in favour of rooney and owen.

Wright Phillips is not good enough. Bentley / Lennon should be fighting it out for the right mid berth.

[philipl]

Funny we are discussing the fundamentals of the decline of the English national team under a thread about an injury crisis.

Symptomatic.

I'll stick my neck out. There is not one English born manager good enough to sort out this mess. Having an English manager and achieving success for England are mutually incompatible for the foreseeable future.

However, there are managers around who could be good enough to take the scraps and ends of the Premiership who happen to qualify to wear three lions to victory in major competitions. But it would need managerial genius as per the Special One and his ilk (Hughes, Hiddink etc.) to do it.

England has some massive problems:

- the only England qualified player this side of Accy Stanley level plying his trade in foreign leagues is Beckham who is playing USAccy Stanley every week or would be if he weren't permanently knackered.

- the pool of players selection can be made from is in reality less than 200 out 500 English Premier League squad members.

- we have a sychophantically ignorant press which means an England coach risks his job through Chelivmancarspudwhamcheat journos having a cheap go if he picks players from any of the at least ten "unglamorous" EPL clubs.

- our two world class (and I think we know what we mean by that term) forwards are totally incompatable and cannot fit in the same 18.

- our other forwards are either made of glass, rotated into the Anfield garden shed or under lots of smelly stuff as rooted spuds.

- our two world class midfielders are also totally incompatable and should never appear in the same 18 together.

- we have no goalkeepers of the required standard.

- our central defenders are more comfortable admiring the view with their heads in their derrieres than in doing anything as serious as defending. Thank goodness there is still Sol Cambell.

- Phil Neville, Garry Neville, Joleon Lescott, SWP and a bunch of other no-hopers like Carrick are serious/natural selections at the moment. That in itself is a definition of a national team in severe crisis. These players in their current condition would not have got anywhere near selection for an England team at any time between when I was born and when Steve McClaren was appointed manager. Or in the last 50 years in other words.

A brilliant manager could still get these liquorish allsorts into winning things like the Greeks did. McClown just has an unfunny circus act.

[Rovermatt]

Totally disagree with regard to Gary Neville. He's been a stalwart of United down the years and is now the team captain. He can't be that bad.

[thenodrog]

England have won one trophy (and reached one final) of a leading tournament in their history. Compare and contrast with Italy, Germany, France and Brazil. For supposedly one of the world's leading football nation (and home to allegedly the best league in the world), England's international record is pathetic and embarrassing.

Correct JD as far as it goes, BUT please note that the one leading tournament was the World Cup win! Lets not easily condemn recent incumbents in the England managerial chair but rather recognise the genius and determination of Sir Alf Ramsey. He was a manager who single mindedly ignored the press and media team selections, who was derided deafiningly by the same for building the team around a hated system of 'wingless wonders', who insisted that team ethic was paramount....... and who held aloft the Jules Rimet Trophy.

[Grabbi Graeme]

Coral's odds on next England manager

Beckham 100/1 surley worth a quid

Options for next England manager don't look that good:

Scolari turned it down once cause of english media so I don't think he is in the frame.

Jose Maureen Well if he's nothing else to do although speculation is he is Portugal bound.

Fergie Not interested

Wenger Not interested

O' Neil, Did great with Celtic there again so could most of us, seems to have a good collection of english players at Villa although not done much yet despite money to spend.

Coppell What??????

Fat Sam Close to the job last time doubt he would quit the toon.

The rest are a who's who of names that are banded about when England job comes up, my opinion the best english man is already on the management team Venables.

[ABBEY]

was chatting last night and our worst nightmare would be...macca out...fat sam in ...hughsey to toon...

[b12_simon]

was chatting last night and our worst nightmare would be...macca out...fat sam in ...hughsey to toon...

MH wouldn't go near that circus!

[Neil Weaver]

was chatting last night and our worst nightmare would be...macca out...fat sam in ...hughsey to toon...

Bad, but not worst Abbs........ completing the merry-go-round McClown to us.

[Ozz]

For the die-hard England fan, the appointment of Mclaren was a disaster. They would have probably been better off giving Jim Smith the job. He appears to have just inherited the role really, almost by default.

[roversmum]

Bad, but not worst Abbs........ completing the merry-go-round McClown to us.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Can't even bear to think about it

[Rover Down Under]

It's always been a source of frustration as a Rovers fan knowing players like Bentley should be playing for England but because he doesn't play for a "big club" he stands little to no chance. Well this time it's a good thing...not to have any Rovers players associated with the debacle of the current English side. I hope every single England player is booed off the pitch this weekend by the crowd, they deserve to be at least...

The England B team should have played in their place, might have won it then.

[Lathund]

I've been claiming that the English players are somewhat overrated in most threads bashing Eriksson, and I still believe I'm right, but failing to qualify for a championship is of course largely down to the manager as well as a team of England's quality should still beat the likes of Russia. If you take my own country, Sweden, as an example, we have now qualified for five straight championships (OK, so we need either (A) 1 pt from our games against Latvia or Spain, or ( N.I to drop points against either Denmark or Spain. But I'm confident ). We've done that with a far, far inferior squad to other teams who've failed to qualify for recent championships, such as the Netherlands. I mean a 35 year old Niclas Alexandersson who plays in the Swedish league is still a starter to name one example.

But it just goes to show that managers like Hiddink, or in Sweden's case Lagerbäck, who can create an actual team out of the players at hand really can go a long way. It's also why I was delighted to see Greece win in 2004, as despite their rather boring football it was a tactical triumph and a triumph of the collective. It was very refreshing to see, when everything else is about the money, the big stars and all that.

Tho I still suspect Russia might slip up in Israel, so don't give up yet.

[philipl]

Tho I still suspect Russia might slip up in Israel, so don't give up yet.

Contrary to the conspiracy theories, be in no doubt that 90% of the Russians in Israel hate Russia with a passion having been forced out of their homeland by rampant anti-semitism.

However, I think Hiddink is too good a manager to let a rather limited Israel get in his way.

[Ronin]

But it just goes to show that managers like Hiddink, or in Sweden's case Lagerbäck, who can create an actual team out of the players at hand really can go a long way. It's also why I was delighted to see Greece win in 2004, as despite their rather boring football it was a tactical triumph and a triumph of the collective. It was very refreshing to see, when everything else is about the money, the big stars and all that.

Totally agree with this. In England's case, it would seem, that yes they do have 'world class' players, but it's glaringly obvious that they can't play as a team or tactically against different opposition. I read a quote from David Platt in a Saturday paper championing getting Fat Frank back into the team (along with the usual Gerrard/Lampard midfield genius combo) and saying that you should always have your best players playing. IMO, that doesn't always work, although the media always keep banging on about it. As much as it pains me (being Scottish and all - but don't hold that against me ) England do seem to play a lot better with the Barry / Gerrard comination and with a Heskey / Owen big and small strikeforce. Seemed to work well in the 3-0 wins, although injury/suspensions forced McClaren's hand a bit - does that mean that McClaren's tactical genius for those games was accidental? Rooney doesn't seem to work well with Owen, so maybe Ashton should've been given a chance, or at least someone in the same mould? As for Robinson, definitely needs to be dropped. The guy is in poor form (Spuds in the bottom 3 after all - lovely!!!! ) and his mistakes have been costly. James, Green seem to be doing alright at Pompey and WHam.

At least if England fail to qualify, it could constitute a shake up and a very intense wake up call to the FA and the 'star player' loving media. The Euros are different to the World Cup I feel, and with Greece and Denmark in recent tourneys, anyone can win it, and that to me makes it a bit more exciting and not, according to MOTD's two Alan's, a lesser tournament.

[thenodrog]

I read a quote from David Platt in a Saturday paper championing getting Fat Frank back into the team (along with the usual Gerrard/Lampard midfield genius combo) and saying that you should always have your best players playing.

No wonder Platt's a failed manager is it? The only odd thing is why anybody asks for his opinion.

Thank God that Sir Alf was in charge in '66 though and not that numpty! Conclusive proof that a collection of the best players do not make the best team.

Why some people choose to ignore the lessons of history is befuddling.

[Rovermatt]

anyone can win it, and that to me makes it a bit more exciting and not, according to MOTD's two Alan's, a lesser tournament.

They claimed that Euro 2008 would be a lesser tournament without England (which it won't) not that the tournament itself was inferior.

[den]

No wonder Platt's a failed manager is it? The only odd thing is why anybody asks for his opinion.

Thank God that Sir Alf was in charge in '66 though and not that numpty! Conclusive proof that a collection of the best players do not make the best team.

Why some people choose to ignore the lessons of history is befuddling.

Something along the same lines, - Paul Merson was advocating playing Lampard before the game against Russia, while leaving Owen out. His reasoning was that Lampard scores goals from midfield, while Owen could come from the bench if needed!

Leave Owen out, so that Lampard could offer a threat from midfield? What do these ex - players learn from their playing days?