[Archived] Too Posh To Sing ?

[cletus]

I think the problem here is with Ewood being all seater.If they made the bottom tier of the BBE all terracing i am sure the atmosphere would be greatly improved.Then if you want to sing and jump around then the BBE is for you,if not there are 2 other stands to go at!

Although i would dearly love it to happen, returning the BBE to a terrace isn`t going to happen

The Frankfurt fans looked like they were in an all-seater....or am i mistaken?

[Flopsy]

what we need is to get a couple of people with drums to stand at the front of the BBE and get the beat going. That'll encourage the atmosphere and singing

[Daremz]

Although i would dearly love it to happen, returning the BBE to a terrace isn`t going to happen

The Frankfurt fans looked like they were in an all-seater....or am i mistaken?

@ Bayern (see movie) they were in an all-seater, but as I said - if you can get a 'standing' group together, no one would mind you're in an all-seater. Certain stadiums (I know the huge home stand @ Dortmund is terraces) in Germany have terraces (on special request by the fans), but all over Europe it's more and more of all-seater...

Still though - all seater or not: Atmosphere is atmosphere.

[roversmum]

We have a long way to go!

When we have a stand FULL of supporters like 'roversmum' - ie "we pay to watch in our own way" - then it will be very difficult to persuade them that by getting involved they may not only have a good time themselves, but also make Ewood Park a more attractive location for the new/floating football fan.

Presumably the likes of Dortmund, Eintracht Frankfurt, St Ettienne etc have a section of older supporters?

Take the 'we' out of that, please ihd.

One day you yourself will be - shall we say (any hope) more mature and not as able as you are today - you may possible suffer an illness or injury to boot. What does not seem to be registering with a number of you is that many supporters are SIMPLY NOT ABLE TO SHOUT AND JUMP AROUND. No doubt some, indeed, many, would like to do so. The lady in front of me (who is in her 70s) and I do join in the singing and chants and so do a few others but there are many who are simply physically unable to do so. Now, perhaps they should all be 'put down' or stopped from contributing in their own way - i.e. buying a ticket and turning up. Trust me, I'd be in there with the rest of you but I am a personal assistant to a disabled person and I quite often bring more than one. I am so (rude word deleted) fed up with this relentless criticism of those in the JW; it's not necessary. And I couldn't give a toss what sort of supporters the likes of Dortmund etc have. You should be proud of our older supporters many of whom have been fans for years - and it's not easy or comfortable - I know all the jokes about blankets and flasks - but that's their way of coping with the cold etc. These guys love Rovers just as much as anybody.

[Daremz]

Take the 'we' out of that, please ihd.

One day you yourself will be - shall we say (any hope) more mature and not as able as you are today - you may possible suffer an illness or injury to boot. What does not seem to be registering with a number of you is that many supporters are SIMPLY NOT ABLE TO SHOUT AND JUMP AROUND. No doubt some, indeed, many, would like to do so. The lady in front of me (who is in her 70s) and I do join in the singing and chants and so do a few others but there are many who are simply physically unable to do so. Now, perhaps they should all be 'put down' or stopped from contributing in their own way - i.e. buying a ticket and turning up. Trust me, I'd be in there with the rest of you but I am a personal assistant to a disabled person and I quite often bring more than one. I am so (rude word deleted) fed up with this relentless criticism of those in the JW; it's not necessary. And I couldn't give a toss what sort of supporters the likes of Dortmund etc have. You should be proud of our older supporters many of whom have been fans for years - and it's not easy or comfortable - I know all the jokes about blankets and flasks - but that's their way of coping with the cold etc. These guys love Rovers just as much as anybody.

Just as much or maybe even more. And I think everybody loves those fans, respects them for turning up and buying a ticket over and over and over and over again. Ofcourse they're not able to jump around and nobody asks them to, right? I have a hell lot of respect for them anyways. And to be honest, I don't care what sort of fans Dortmund or Franfurt have neither, but they create a great atmosphere, I hope you agree in that. And it might not be 'copyable' to Ewood, but at least it's good to take a look and maybe get some inspiration? A whirling BBE with fans jumping and singing for 90 minutes would be great and would give an impulse to everything and anyone who has something to do with Blackburn Rovers Football Club. And I think that's what it's about.

[OJRovers]

I have moved this season from N04 to N02, purely based on the fact that they tend to make more noise and start more chants. The people i used to sit with were top people, however I wanted more noise around me. Therefore there will be even more noise around N02 this year!

And i will stand up and sing when I want!

There's 6 of us moved from central BBE lower up to the back RH corner (towards JW stand) for the same reason. We'll be starting songs definately.

[Sandiway Blue]

There's 6 of us moved from central BBE lower up to the back RH corner (towards JW stand) for the same reason. We'll be starting songs definately.

The more the merrier,i sit just below that area with my 6year old son and i get frustrated with some of the fans not joining in(even if they don`t want to sing they could at least clap!).I am very optimistic this season that the atmosphere should be much better.

[Beta Ray Bill]

We have a long way to go!

When we have a stand FULL of supporters like 'roversmum' - ie "we pay to watch in our own way" - then it will be very difficult to persuade them that by getting involved they may not only have a good time themselves, but also make Ewood Park a more attractive location for the new/floating football fan.

Presumably the likes of Dortmund, Eintracht Frankfurt, St Ettienne etc have a section of older supporters?

And this is exactly the issue I've been mentioning in the thread.

There is an underlying suggestion here that those who want to be vocal, bounce up and down and do whatever they want are simply a much better supporter than people who don't.

I am frankly surprised that Roversmum response is as tempered as it is to the implied sentiment from ihb - I know I wouldn't have been quite as reasonable as she's been. Hat's off to Roversmum.

[Daremz]

And this is exactly the issue I've been mentioning in the thread.

There is an underlying suggestion here that those who want to be vocal, bounce up and down and do whatever they want are simply a much better supporter than people who don't.

I am frankly surprised that Roversmum response is as tempered as it is to the implied sentiment from ihb - I know I wouldn't have been quite as reasonable as she's been. Hat's off to Roversmum.

I understand you, but I didn't had that feeling myself (of the underlying suggestion). I think it's a thread to get a few initiatives going, not to try and create havoc amongst us Rover fans. Still, mum had a good and fair point.

[Hughesy]

The more the merrier,i sit just below that area with my 6year old son and i get frustrated with some of the fans not joining in(even if they don`t want to sing they could at least clap!).I am very optimistic this season that the atmosphere should be much better.

Il try my best for you - iv got a bit of a loud mouth on me when it comes to chants

[Sandiway Blue]

Imo the best supporters are the ones who regularly support their team,know a lot about their team,and defend Rovers to the end when harassed by jealous dingles!

I dare say roversmum can fight her corner when she has to!

[ihateburnley]

Take the 'we' out of that, please ihd.

One day you yourself will be - shall we say (any hope) more mature and not as able as you are today - you may possible suffer an illness or injury to boot. What does not seem to be registering with a number of you is that many supporters are SIMPLY NOT ABLE TO SHOUT AND JUMP AROUND. No doubt some, indeed, many, would like to do so. The lady in front of me (who is in her 70s) and I do join in the singing and chants and so do a few others but there are many who are simply physically unable to do so. Now, perhaps they should all be 'put down' or stopped from contributing in their own way - i.e. buying a ticket and turning up. Trust me, I'd be in there with the rest of you but I am a personal assistant to a disabled person and I quite often bring more than one. I am so (rude word deleted) fed up with this relentless criticism of those in the JW; it's not necessary. And I couldn't give a toss what sort of supporters the likes of Dortmund etc have. You should be proud of our older supporters many of whom have been fans for years - and it's not easy or comfortable - I know all the jokes about blankets and flasks - but that's their way of coping with the cold etc. These guys love Rovers just as much as anybody.

FFS get off your high horse!

If you re-read my post you will find that I wasn't criticising the old geezers in the JW - they have as much right to be there as anyone else!

What I was saying was that it will be very difficult to persuade the JW supporters that in order to get more people through the gates and attract new fans some of us have to make an extra effort. Of course this is relative to the people's actual ability to do whatever they can - obviously I don't expect some disabled guy to start jumping up and down on the spot.

I think being a supporter includes a degree of 'spreading the word' but also making the stadium a better place to be on a matchday. If everyone decided that we were just going to sit there and be quiet with our rug and flask then what is the actual point sampling the live experience?

I understand that for some people it isn't anything to do with singing and atmosphere but I think the majority value these elements as a vital part of a matchday. At the end of the day, I honestly believe the club would benefit more from a strategy of 'let's make this stadium an electric place to be when the Rovers are playing' rather than adopting a policy of keeping the peace and the JW happy. And that's benefits on AND off the field.

[roversmum]

You just don't get it, do you ihb.

If everyone decided that we were just going to sit there and be quiet with our rug and flask then what is the actual point sampling the live experience?

You know something, lad, there's one thing you need to learn, and that's respect

honestly believe the club would benefit more from a strategy of 'let's make this stadium an electric place to be when the Rovers are playing'rather than adopting a policy of keeping the peace and the JW happy

Of course we all want the stadium to have an atmosphere and for more fans to come. But in all honesty it seems to me that in your eyes many are not welcome. And that is very sad.

[Jan]

You just don't get it, do you ihb.

You know something, lad, there's one thing you need to learn, and that's respect

Of course we all want the stadium to have an atmosphere and for more fans to come. But in all honesty it seems to me that in your eyes many are not welcome. And that is very sad.

IHB neither knows or cares about respect, that much is clear from its posts. I personally hate when I'm stuck at an away game full of drunken yobs jumping around the place. That atmosphere isn't condusive to enjoyment for a great many people.

IHB and its ilk seem to think that the average football supporter is a 16-24 year old lad whose priorities are getting drunk and making as much noise as possible. That simply isn't the case. They're the minority whom the majority wish would just be put in a cage (for safety of course as these are the idiots most likely to run onto the pitch) to allow them to jump up and down and sing- as long as it's not in a stand near them.

And given the demographics of the Blackburn area, it's more older, asian and female supporters that the club needs to attract- few of whom- I would conjecture- would want to bounce or sing.

[stuwilky]

IHB neither knows or cares about respect, that much is clear from its posts. I personally hate when I'm stuck at an away game full of drunken yobs jumping around the place. That atmosphere isn't condusive to enjoyment for a great many people.

IHB and its ilk seem to think that the average football supporter is a 16-24 year old lad whose priorities are getting drunk and making as much noise as possible. That simply isn't the case. They're the minority whom the majority wish would just be put in a cage (for safety of course as these are the idiots most likely to run onto the pitch) to allow them to jump up and down and sing- as long as it's not in a stand near them.

And given the demographics of the Blackburn area, it's more older, asian and female supporters that the club needs to attract- few of whom- I would conjecture- would want to bounce or sing.

An odd post in some respects....

If I may;

Surely it depends what said "drunken yobs" are doing? Are is it "just" drunken yobs in general that offend? I like a beer before a match - but it makes diddly squat difference to when I am driving in respect of how I behave. I dare say some people dont need to be "drunk" to behave like pillocks.

Im not going to mention para 2 really, football IS a game of passion - each person displays this in their own way, a reasonable high percentage of the football watching public choose to sing, to say that any who does deserves putting in a cage is frankly offensive to people like myself, who behave themselves and yet manage to contribute to Ewood Park having the kind of atmosphere desired by the board, the players and the team management.

Given that the above parties want an Ewood Park with an atmopshere, how would you suggest it was approached, rather than simply tarring people as "drunken yobs" it doesnt really help.

[Beta Ray Bill]

If as IHB rather inelegantly suggests, and as stuwilky more eloquently mentions, there is a majority of fans who want to bounce around signing their little hearts out - why the hell isn't it happening now? If they really are in the majority, why isn't it obvious?

Then again, perhaps the majority of fans don't want to make like a school disco or a stag night in Budapest? The ascertain that the majority of fans want to sing simply isn't borne out at any ground in the country.

The only reason why people think it's anything other than a minority is simply because singing/chanting/bouncing around is by definition more noisy than people who cheer at appropriate times, yell at players now and again, and generally try to enjoy the match. These are the people who don't want to join in "two pound an hour" at stewards doing their jobs and get riled by "there's only 3 of of us singing" taunts to their own chuffin' supporters!

Support the team in anyway you want. Just don't infringe or criticise the support of others who support in their own way.

I would love the BBE to be full of voice, but if we end up alienating other fans beacuse of the 'Hardcore Singers' well I'll not bother renewing my season ticket as I'm clearly not wanted by the fans, or if IHB is to believed, even the club.

[stuwilky]

Support the team in anyway you want. Just don't infringe or criticise the support of others who support in their own way.

I think this is the key line Beta Ray Bill.

One that posters from ALL angles should perhaps be mindful of.

Lots of love.

A "Drunken yob"

[ihateburnley]

You just don't get it, do you ihb.

You know something, lad, there's one thing you need to learn, and that's respect

Of course we all want the stadium to have an atmosphere and for more fans to come. But in all honesty it seems to me that in your eyes many are not welcome. And that is very sad.

'Mum' get a grip love. Who do you think you are? I have about as much respect for you and Jan as you do for me and 'my ilk'!

I have my own opinions on what would be better for our club's atmosphere and I'm entitled to voice them. I am trying to contribute in a positive way to my clubs atmosphere - as afterall this is the whole point of this thread. Yes you might be content with sitting in silence, clapping the odd goal, leaving ten minutes early and maybe reading a book (and believe me I have seen this in the JW stand) - but resting on our laurels is in no way contributing to the development of our club.

There is clearly a problem with attendances/atmosphere - and I think the majority would agree there is definitely a correlation between the two. I am suggesting that by improving our atmosphere we may encourage new support and welcome back the lost thousands.

As for me being talked about as some kind of 'drunken yob' - well this is just ridiculous! Like Stu I'll sometimes have a couple of beers and a bet but that's about as yobbish as it gets for me. I sat for three consecutive years in the Jack Walker Stand and so I would like to think I'm not generalising or speculating - I'm basing my opinions after sitting in every stand at Ewood Park for a considerable amount of time. The most popular stand by far is the Blackburn End. And why? Yes you're right ATMOSPHERE.

Now I'm not suggesting that it's some kind of amazing couldron of emotion in the BBE, but the camaraderie and sense of belonging is as close as it gets to an away game in certain sections. I firmly believe that if we only got rid of that bloody drummer and let these lads that want to orchestrate the singing get on with it, then we could benefit the club in terms of attendances, atmosphere and general perception from the rest of the football world.

[American]

Hate to say that Burnley had a good idea, but they did with having a dedicated signing section. How has that worked (mindful it's only a section of overall poor attendances, of course)?

[ace]

I am suggesting that by improving our atmosphere we may encourage new support and welcome back the lost thousands.

Get a grip yourself "love"..Are you advocating a singing test before those who don't share your peculiar views are allowed to enter the BBE?

[ihateburnley]

Get a grip yourself "love"..Are you advocating a singing test before those who don't share your peculiar views are allowed to enter the BBE?

You know I think you're onto something there....

[USRoverME]

Just a quick question... and ihb, fel free to berate the ignorant Yank,

But you are sayingyou want to welcome back "the lost thousands" with atmosphere.

Are you saying that you are sure that the club lost thousands of supports because there's not enough signing? Do you honestly think that creating a stand of "drunken yobs" or "spirited supporters" (depending on your views) alone will bring back people who haven't shown up since the days of SAS?

Has there been a marketing study that shows people dropped their seson tickets due to "poor atmosphere" rather than "we're not winning the league"?

[stuwilky]

"drunken yobs" or "spirited supporters" (depending on your views)

It isnt depending on your view at all. They are DIFFERENT THINGS

[Beta Ray Bill]

There is clearly a problem with attendances/atmosphere - and I think the majority would agree there is definitely a correlation between the two. I am suggesting that by improving our atmosphere we may encourage new support and welcome back the lost thousands.

And you could easily alienate other thousands. Maybe thousands who have been attending matches for longer than you've been able to talk, let along sing. But that doesn't seem to matter to you in your posts.

You singularly fail to accept that - or perhaps you just aren't saying as such - that football support isn't a one size fits all. If you do have a wider perspective, I'm sorry kid (yes I'm trying to mimic the very patronizing tone you've adopted with Roversmum), then you sure as hell are doing a good job of hiding it.

I enjoy watching/hearing people singing. I don't personally partake unless I've really had a few, but I don't have a problem with it unless it's spoiling the enjoyment of others. The examples of Rovers fans in my previous post do nothing to improve the atmosphere, it's the reverse.

Is that so difficult to understand? Or are you really advocating vetting people into parts of the ground (or even all of it if you take your arguments to their conclusion) on grounds of noise or bounce worthyness?

[Ben-2000]

Roversmum, he has not said (and neither did I the other day) that people unable to take in chanting etc should not go! We are trying to build the atmosphere with the people who can that don't usually start songs because they think nobody will join in! Nobody is slagging off you or the disabled as far as I can see and quite rightly so!