[Archived] Too Posh To Sing ?

[Claytons Left Boot]

If as IHB rather inelegantly suggests, and as stuwilky more eloquently mentions, there is a majority of fans who want to bounce around signing their little hearts out - why the hell isn't it happening now?

Quite right - it will only happen in the Blackburn End if all the singers are together, say far right hand side, or if the seating is made unreserved and those wanting to sing get on early and group themselves together. Otherwise nothing will change.

I for one would love either of the above two options to happen. Off at a slight tangent, but still about atmosphere and the like, wasn't it great to see the array of Flags of St George at the game this afternoon. Little things like being able to display your flags do make a difference.

The problem with the Blackburn End is that it can 'bounce' but usually only for three or four important matches each season. The rest of the time it's distinctly average.

[ihateburnley]

Just a quick question... and ihb, fel free to berate the ignorant Yank,

But you are sayingyou want to welcome back "the lost thousands" with atmosphere.

Are you saying that you are sure that the club lost thousands of supports because there's not enough signing? Do you honestly think that creating a stand of "drunken yobs" or "spirited supporters" (depending on your views) alone will bring back people who haven't shown up since the days of SAS?

Has there been a marketing study that shows people dropped their seson tickets due to "poor atmosphere" rather than "we're not winning the league"?

USRME - I appreciate the more accepting approach but not sure what you mean about drunken yobs and spirited supporters being the same thing. I suppose its hard for people that never touch drink to distinguish between the two but believe me there is a massive difference!

Of course I'm not saying that we lost those supporters due to the reduction in singing but I believe it to be a contributing factor. Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating a stirring rendition of the 'Yer Mums Yer Dad' classic , but a real hostile atmosphere for visiting fans/players and an emotional, passionate Blackburn Rovers atmosphere.

I can't imagine being a Chelsea supporter looking on in jealousy at the Rovers fans before kick-off at the FA Cup Semi.

[Billinge End Blue]

The above debate's polarisation is quite bizarre. It is surely not beyond our capabilities for Ewood Park to cater for all types of supporting and matchday experience – it isn’t an ‘either or’ situation.

The tartan rug/drunken yob stereotyping serves no useful purpose either.

That said, drunkenness can certainly contribute to a lively and vocal atmosphere eg as at Rovers UEFA matches abroad last season.

[Ben-2000]

The 2 Euro away games I went to last season were fantastic - the only thing that spoiled it at Leverkusen was the idiots who decided to scrap amongst themselves

[Hypo-Luxa]

Ok so now I'm confused...I was under the impression that the Riverside was the place for good atmosphere, but now it looks as if the BBE is the place for atmosphere.

Which is the better stand for a Yank who's never been to an English stadium for a lively game of togger?

[roversmum]

Roversmum, he has not said (and neither did I the other day) that people unable to take in chanting etc should not go! We are trying to build the atmosphere with the people who can that don't usually start songs because they think nobody will join in! Nobody is slagging off you or the disabled as far as I can see and quite rightly so!

No, Ben, but the insinuation is quite clearly that it would be preferred if we weren't there.

maybe reading a book (and believe me I have seen this in the JW stand)

If the incident you are referring, ihb, to is the one that was pictured (I believe) in the Mirror the lady concerned had been dropped off early as her daughter is a steward. Economical with the truth I think the term is. In any case, even if had been reading the book during a match, maybe it was a hint that the football wasn't quite up to scratch! Was it you, ihb, who said that he watched home matches in the pub on tv - I remember thinking at the time it was the worst excuse I had ever heard that you didn't like the atmosphere at Ewood.......Apologies if I've got that wrong.

One other point I would make - I don't think Jan's comment was aimed at the likes of you, Stuwilky, as far as I am aware you don't make a habit of being arrested/thrown out of the ground for being drunk and disorderly! Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong . I believe Jan's concern is of those youngsters who think that drinking themselves literally stupid is very clever and grown-up and fail to realize that they are letting down not only themselves but their club, and spoiling things for others.

In any case, I think everyone's point has been made, aptly summed up by Beta Ray Bill

that football support isn't a one size fits all

and also Billinge End Blue's comment.

Incidentally, some of those flasks that have been mentioned in such a derisory way, have inside a good helping of spirits (medicinal purposes only of course) though unfortunately as one gets older (I am led to believe) it has the effect of sending one to sleep - so there's your answer! Ban Flasks!

Also, given that the JWL is quite close to the action, we are able to issue advice and comments to the assistant referees and players and we do often take advantage of this. I have most helpfully offered the use of my spectacles on more than one occasion to an ass ref whom I felt could benefit from them.

A few times last season Ewood was described as 'Rocking' particularly in the dying moments of a game when even the JW was shouting "Come on, Rovers". So even though you may never hear them belting out "No, Nay, Never" the JW offers support it it's own way.

[cletus]

Typical BRFCS.co.uk.....

such a positive thread has degenerated into yet another arguement!! FFS!! i might pay Rovers for the seats at either side of me to be removed, so i don`t get any of you lot sat next to me!!

(just kidding! i love you all......except the obvious ones! )

[daren]

It is odd how some people see things as offensive. I mean, I read back and while the JW stand got it's usual slagging (and let's be fair, it's a running joke on the boards that hasn't got as old as the Eurosport one yet) I didn't see anything aimed at anyone. Maybe my Internet-rated asbestos (and thus flame-proof) suit is just too effective!

I sat in the JW Upper for the Leverkusen home leg last season, and in the front row of the BBE lower for the pompey game the Sunday after (still grateful for that, rover_groo!) and enjoyed both, but it was a trade off. The singing in the BBE was brilliant and the atmosphere, especially the slagging of James, really enhanced the experience. In the JWU there's the best view in the house, but the atmosphere was such that I did feel that singing or even getting excited (except for some refereeing decisions) was frowned upon. And as for jumping up (occasionally, now, not all the time. I'm excitable at a match), well, I got funny looks from all around.

Now I've got fairly thick skin, but having been brought up to be a polite chap I'd rather not annoy others at the match and spoil their experience either. But the JW is the largest stand in the stadium and if there was a singing section in it I reckon it'd contribute positively to the atmosphere on the pitch. The atmosphere definitely affects the players and when Ewood is rocking it is matched by a better performance on the pitch.

Everyone should support Rovers in their own way. And no-one should feel forced to sing. And no-one should feel that singing isn't quite right where they are. I'd be very much supportive of any initiatives that got a good noise going. A "choir" has been mentioned - that's just the same as a singing section, folks. A group of people in one area, singing for all they're worth. Many people sit where they sit because of atmosphere, these are the people that should agree on a section together and bring the atmosphere with them. I realise it's not quite that simple, but surely the club could be persuaded to support that kind of initiative somehow? Also, I still think that if some people living locally and the drummers met up and came up with some different beats or even agreed of various beats for various chants and no drumming otherwise that it would be beneficial. They're rovers supporters too. As are we all (something to remember while sniping at each other online).

Lastly, noone likes drunken yobs. Not even other drunken yobs. That's why they fight amongst themselves so much.

[Jan]

One other point I would make - I don't think Jan's comment was aimed at the likes of you, Stuwilky, as far as I am aware you don't make a habit of being arrested/thrown out of the ground for being drunk and disorderly! Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong . I believe Jan's concern is of those youngsters who think that drinking themselves literally stupid is very clever and grown-up and fail to realize that they are letting down not only themselves but their club, and spoiling things for others.

Absolutely correct. I suspect that you (Stu) do NOT decide to verbally abuse people who ask you to sit down so they can see the game, spend the entire game, when you are standing up, abusing the opposition fans, only looking at the game when the rest of the Rovers crowd react to something and then fight stewards as you're thrown out for said behaviour. That has happened to me at Manure on the last three occasions I've been there, and at other games too.

Most of the people I sit with at Ewood have had a drink before the game. What they are not is falling down abusively drunk, and it's those fans I'm talking about (And there are ususally a hard core of about 40 at away games and they're mostly in their teens). I can categorically assure you that ALL of them would want to be in a singing section, and I suspect that quite soon a lot of the more "sensible" singers would want to be away from them too.

[Alan75]

Absolutely correct. I suspect that you (Stu) do NOT decide to verbally abuse people who ask you to sit down so they can see the game, spend the entire game, when you are standing up, abusing the opposition fans, only looking at the game when the rest of the Rovers crowd react to something and then fight stewards as you're thrown out for said behaviour. That has happened to me at Manure on the last three occasions I've been there, and at other games too.

Most of the people I sit with at Ewood have had a drink before the game. What they are not is falling down abusively drunk, and it's those fans I'm talking about (And there are ususally a hard core of about 40 at away games and they're mostly in their teens). I can categorically assure you that ALL of them would want to be in a singing section, and I suspect that quite soon a lot of the more "sensible" singers would want to be away from them too.

And there lies the answer to two matters.

a. declining away support because there is no guarantee who you are going to be sat next to at away games. Similar to Jan I have had a number of bad experiences with the 14 - 20 year olds whose main objective is to arrive at the ground p'd out of their minds and then disrupt the enjoyment of watching the game by drawing the attention of stewards who spend half the game being abused for trying to doing their job.

b. the benifit of season tickets - you know who you are going to be sat next to for 9 months.

[cletus]

the benifit of season tickets - you know who you are going to be sat next to for 9 months.

I suppose so but what if you end up sitting next to a real pain in the @rse, be it an old fuddy-duddy or an absolute loonball? Can you ask the club for a move?

btw....who-ever sits next to me, might be in for a rough ride....as i`m 26 stone & rather partial to pickled egg & sprout curries washed down with plenty of real ales on Friday night

(i think i`d better buy those extra seats )

[roversmum]

Yes, you can move. You can also move for a particular match if you want to sit with friends (see the ticket office and they will give you a paper ticket). No problem.

You're telling porkies, Cletus. You're not like that at all, unless you want to sit on your own, in which case you're worse.........

[bob fleming]

btw....who-ever sits next to me, might be in for a rough ride....as i`m 26 stone & rather partial to pickled egg & sprout curries washed down with plenty of real ales on Friday night

You've lost weight since I last saw you cletus. Good work fella.

[Ben-2000]

No, Ben, but the insinuation is quite clearly that it would be preferred if we weren't there.

Not from me it's not! Why would people not want them there?!

[USRoverME]

wow, I try to ignore the debate of "drunk yob" versus "spirited supproter" and got slated for it anyways...

The point I was trying to make, take 2, trying to state it more clearly....

I really don'tt hink the people that left Rovers left for the atmosphere. I believe they left because its too expensive, cheaper to go to the pub, football's not exciting, etc. IF someone gave up going to home games, do you really think, when they come back, they are going to be the die hard supporters who want to shout and chant and jump? Fans like that show up no matter what, because they are driven by the passion of the club.

Contrasting point, ManU has great songs and chants, but they also have an atendace of what, 76K, but they also have the "prawn sandwich brigade". Who do you think pays more of the bills currently for the club?

Also you said that you don't think Chelsea fans were envying our support att eh FA Cup semi. #1 - If I ever get a chance to attend and FA Cup Semi, I don't think I'll spend more than a moment caring about the opposition's support. #2 - Are we trying to draw supporters from other clubs or are we trying to bring back supporters who stopped comign to Rovers matches. I mean, after all, any fan who switches allegiance will most likely shift again if we get relegated or other things go against us (which they have a habit of doing in Blackburn).

[DanLad]

Ok so now I'm confused...I was under the impression that the Riverside was the place for good atmosphere, but now it looks as if the BBE is the place for atmosphere.

Which is the better stand for a Yank who's never been to an English stadium for a lively game of togger?

Traditionally the BBE has a better atmosphere, but a worse view of the game.

With the cheaper tickets in the Riverside I reckon it'll be a lot more raucous in there this season than previous seasons. Whether it can match the BBE remains to be seen. Great view, though, as long as you avoid sitting behind a post.

Oh, I've never played a game of togger. Actually, I don't know what togger is?

[Hughesy]

Hypo - BBurn End Lower - NO2 or central lower if you can - Dont go in the riverside - it cant match us, never has, never will!

[andy82]

Hi. Not posted on here for a long long time, mainly because i've given up going to watch Rovers and instead make trips to watch my hometown club in Germany, because of most of the above. Tomorrow I have decided to go and stand on the TERRACING at Glanford Park and boo Burnley, as opposed to sitting in a seat thats not actually big enough for me at Ewood.

When it comes down to it, English football fans lack any kind of solidarity, which is strange as thats how the game became so poular. This messageboard is a shining example. There are many many people on here advocating terracing, but no-one seems to do anything about it. Worse are the fans that decide as they prefer to sit, the whole ground should be sitting. Can't people have a choice, or did that go out the window with the smoking ban? Germans came together - from all over the country, sitters and standers, to demand the choice. Can you see the JW joining a boycott of a days games that originated from, say, the Holte End or The Kop trying to get their terracing back?

I can't be bothered to get in a big argument about this, but in England old and family fans get pandered to, after all, they 'pay more'*. In Germany most people realise that you take advantage of somethings whilst your young, others whilst you are old. I've never seen anything as daft as blankets and flasks at our ground, but tbh, coffee/hot choc/beer is very cheap and its ALWAYS full so pretty warm. We also don't tend to have this 16-24 year old culture like in England - your biigest number of German fans are probably in their 30s, i usually feel young @ 25. I understand my team may be an anomally, but we have a large number of female fans - most who come to watch the game in groups of girls or with their partners (but NOT kids).

Oh, English football atmospheres also suffer from a newfound belief, especially amongst 20-something males, that Saturday afternoon is for shopping and nothing else. God Bless Meadowhall, Lakeside, The Trafford Centre etc.

One last thing........roll on Wednesday (and f$ck the FA for refusing to allow the DFB to sell to English addresses) Jetzt geht's los!

P.S It was Bayer that had a guy with a megaphone. Most German clubs do this, if Rovers were German it'd be Jordan that would have this honour.

* I understand the whole british way is that your only as good as whats written on your wage slip.

[yorkblues]

this is the season the riverside is going to rock

[cletus]

this is the season the riverside is going to rock

i`ll second that!

"BBE, come in your time is up!"

[Paul]

The problem with this subject is it tends to polarise fans and because we all love and support OUR club individuals feel upset when there are suggestions, direct or inferred, that one supporter type is better than another.

For years I sat on the half-way line in Nuttal Street, then, mainly for financial reasons, the kids and I have sat in the Family Stand since it opened. We had good seats but I've always been disatisfied with the view, not a criticism, a fact. Now thanks to the club's generosity to ST holders, especially the new policy for the disabled, we are moving back to the JW. I've always liked to be in or near the atmosphere, and if the Riverside does "rock this season" we may ask to move there. I've always felt the side view is so superior to the behind the goal view that moving back to the JW has been in my mind for years.

Everyone wants to see a great atmosphere at Ewood but with seating that creates the problem of people who insist on standing. For me that is the big problem. I don't want to stand all game, if someone stands in front of the kids they can't see. Very often the people who insist on standing then berate those who ask them to sit on the basis of "you're not a proper supporter" and refuse to sit down. We had one of these drunken idiots in front of us at the semi-final, ruined our view of the match. And I'm sorry but they usually are drunk, which makes it impossible to have a discussion, just volleys of abuse. Generally the stewards are so slow to take action with such fans the stewards may as well not be there. If I'm at a game on my own I'll put up with someone who stands, if I have the kids with me I won't even think about tolerating it.

Now I know some of the people leading this idea, I know they are sensible and responsible and wouldn't dream of spoiling another fan's enjoyment. But the issue of standing, when fans should be sat, means the only solution is to create a singing area where other fans know their view may well be blocked by others for periods of the match.

[bob fleming]

To echo Paul's post about a singing section the club should / could do more to improve the atmosphere. The BBE lower should be advertised as the place to go if you want to go and sing and get behind the team. If you want to sit and watch then perhaps another area of the ground is for you. I agree with others who say that the BBE atmosphere has been "diluted" by people who don't sing. There's nothing wrong with that of course but it doesn't help the atmosphere.

This has probably been posted before, if so I apologise, but what about the following or is this too redcial?

Reduce the capacity of the BBE lower by say 400 tickets, and make it unreserved seating. First come first served. The core singers would probably congregate in the centre of the BBE. If you wanted to get in amongst that lot then you'd have to get there early. Of course you'd still have people turning up at 2.58 (me probably) looking for a seat - hence the reason why you would have to reduce the capacity (I wouldn't fancy looking for x1 empty seat amongst a sold out stand of 4000+ people).

This would surely bring back a buzz and an air of excitement to the BBE. The nearest thing we would have to the terraces of old - which policed themselves to a certain extent, if you didn't want to sing then get away from the back of the stand, if you did then get yourselves up there.

There's probably a security aspect to this as well, it increases the likelihood of people "acting the fool" (for want of a better phrase) - therefore the BBE lower would only be open to Season Ticket holders.

There, how's about that for a badly thought out idea for early on a Saturday morning?

(In the course of writing this I've actually realised that although I think it would do wonders for the atmosphere I think there would be too many objections from: the police, the stewards and fans who don't want to move and have sat in the same seat since the new BBE was built)

[Alan75]

To echo Paul's post about a singing section the club should / could do more to improve the atmosphere. The BBE lower should be advertised as the place to go if you want to go and sing and get behind the team. If you want to sit and watch then perhaps another area of the ground is for you. I agree with others who say that the BBE atmosphere has been "diluted" by people who don't sing. There's nothing wrong with that of course but it doesn't help the atmosphere.

This has probably been posted before, if so I apologise, but what about the following or is this too redcial?

Reduce the capacity of the BBE lower by say 400 tickets, and make it unreserved seating. First come first served. The core singers would probably congregate in the centre of the BBE. If you wanted to get in amongst that lot then you'd have to get there early. Of course you'd still have people turning up at 2.58 (me probably) looking for a seat - hence the reason why you would have to reduce the capacity (I wouldn't fancy looking for x1 empty seat amongst a sold out stand of 4000+ people).

This would surely bring back a buzz and an air of excitement to the BBE. The nearest thing we would have to the terraces of old - which policed themselves to a certain extent, if you didn't want to sing then get away from the back of the stand, if you did then get yourselves up there.

There's probably a security aspect to this as well, it increases the likelihood of people "acting the fool" (for want of a better phrase) - therefore the BBE lower would only be open to Season Ticket holders.

There, how's about that for a badly thought out idea for early on a Saturday morning?

(In the course of writing this I've actually realised that although I think it would do wonders for the atmosphere I think there would be too many objections from: the police, the stewards and fans who don't want to move and have sat in the same seat since the new BBE was built)

It wouldnt work, even the person who started this thread admits.

GLENN As for people moving. Forget it. We've talked about this time and time again, the problem is everybody (including myself) likes where they sit and doesn't want to move.

[bob fleming]

It wouldnt work, even the person who started this thread admits.

I know - half way through typing I realised that, actually, I like where I sit. The club would never go for it as there would be too many objections. Surely this would have been the way to have done it in 1993, or whenever it was, so people wouldn't get stuck in their ways / seat. Hindsight and all that eh?

Maybe they could trial it at some of the cup matches?

[RoversFanUSA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N10r3uuRaZk

Holy crap the singing there doing kicks ass!!! I wish we would do that. Look seeing as ive been to EWood once SO FAR, I have to back the BBE as its where i sat ans have a fondness for it Riverside...you are going down!