[Archived] Bolton Already Doomed ?

[philipl]

Good points shillito.

If we lose Mark Hughes, it will be a point of danger for us but I would be astonished if appropriate contingency plans are already made.

The natural job of Trustees is to think through all the "what if" scenarios to protect the assets they hold in trust so the club's shareholders' daytime job is to be professional pessimists.

I was very surprised by the way Gartside rushed the appointment of LFS. When they appointed Megson, Bolton were one of a number of Prem clubs in trouble and so the candidate list was dramatically reduced.

Short of firing Hughes because performance has completely collapsed, there is a decent probability that Blackburn Rovers would comfortably be the best job going in the richest league in the world at the time the post-Hughes vacancy is on offer.

My gut feel, for what its worth, is that RFW will soldier on at OT for another five years and that Hughes will do a good enough job at Ewood to cement his position as natural successor. Most alternatives in the shape of taking a stepping stone job to get to OT as opposed to continuing at Ewood contain huge risks to Hughes as well as opportunities.

[Darth Paul]

Your first comment is typical of a section have fans who have more dilluded hatred for our rivals than could be considered healthy.

Bolton have generally finished higher than us over the past 5 years, mainly due to the great job a long serving manager had done. However, once he left the wheels came off, and now they stare the Championship in the face.

If that scenario doesn't set any alarm bells ringing, good luck to you. We are very similar size clubs, and Bolton are like ourselves a very well run club, and we should look at them to learn from their mistakes.

I dont' have a dilluded (sic) hatred of Bolton, or particularly consider them to be our "rivals", although I accept that some on here do. However I do personally feel, and think that it is generally considered also, that Rovers have been the more successful club of the two since we both acheived promotion, and have a much bigger and better platform to work off in respect to keeping us in the top division.

Regardless of our comparative successes in recent seasons, and disregarding Boltons poor form this year, if someone offered me a bet that they would be relegated at some point in the next 5/10 years I would have taken it.

Allardyce was a success because he had exactly the right formula for the Club. He took a lot of average players and made them play in a style which although unpleasant to watch, ground out results and got them where it did, subsequent managers have not managed to find this formula, hence their current position.

Rovers, apart from in Hughes 1st season, haven't had to do this since 2001 because we have attracted players of a higher calibre and played better football.

As much as I would hate to see Hughes leave, there is no way we are as reliant on him as Wanderers were on Fat Sam. If Megson was in charge at Rovers and we lost our star player, say Bentley or Santa Cruz (similar to Anelka leaving Bolton) there is no way we would be sat at the bottom because of the other good players we have, maybe not top half, but definitely not bottom three...

I agree that we need to be aware of how other clubs succeed and fail but as for alarm bells? None here matey...you aren't the guy who sits behind me in the Blackburn End and is panicking at 3.05 if we arent winning, and thinks we are going down, are you?

[thenodrog]

Regardless of our comparative successes in recent seasons, and disregarding Boltons poor form this year, if someone offered me a bet that they would be relegated at some point in the next 5/10 years I would have taken it.

If you want to place the same bet on BRFC I'd be willing to risk a few of my hard earned. I must say Paul your spectacles do appear to have a much darker blue tint than mine.

[Darth Paul]

Possibly so, I have been accused of that before!

I am a realist in the sense that I know that the Premiership is increasingly becoming a "Big Club" environment, and that unless something changes drastically in the next few years, Rovers will probably beome a side who yo-yo's between the top two divisions, purely because of the difference the gate receipts make.

However, I also believe that our Club has always been greater than the sum of its parts, and maybe, just maybe we can continue to buck the trend of "smaller" clubs succeeding in the top league, for a little while at least. (maybe the new Academy overhaul will be the solution but I am not holding my breath).

What I can't agree with is that if Hughes left Rovers we would be staring relegation in the face within 9 months, which was basically the jist of the original post I responded to. Allardyce had far less resources at the Reebok than any manager would have at Rovers, particularly on the field, which of course is why he should be revered for the job he did, but to compare the situations is just too "glass half empty" for me to swallow.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

A touch of wishful thinking maybe but Bolton going through the trap door could result in a few more 'floaters' coming through the Ewood Turnstiles on a regular basis from around that area?

Nasty and selfish as it may sound,I can only cheer with approval another local rival being relegated.

[philipl]

A touch of wishful thinking maybe but Bolton going through the trap door could result in a few more 'floaters' coming through the Ewood Turnstiles on a regular basis from around that area?

Nasty and selfish as it may sound,I can only cheer with approval another local rival being relegated.

If they go down and start playing attractive football and put an exciting promtion push together, their gates will increase.

If they go down and struggle, we could well collect a few floaters.

[thenodrog]

It's the corporate side that will flourish if Notlob are relegated. With only Wigan as an alternative to the sold out signs at OT and Anfield (and probably Goodison and COMS too) no doubt BRFC would find selling the lucrative corporate packages a touch easier. Not many businesses see a box in the lower divisions very helpful in impressing valued customers.

[1864roverite]

Did someone suggest Bolton playing attractive football ?

Thought not

[S15]

I agree that we need to be aware of how other clubs succeed and fail but as for alarm bells? None here matey...you aren't the guy who sits behind me in the Blackburn End and is panicking at 3.05 if we arent winning, and thinks we are going down, are you?

No, I tend to be stable enough never to panic over something out of my control.

And given the same bet, ie, Rovers to be relegated in the next 10 years, then, if I'm brutally honest, I think it's a strong possibility. I also think it's most likely to happen when our next managerial change happens, like it did with Charlton (Curbishley), Bolton (Allardyce), Southampton (Strachan), Leicester (O'Neill) and was about to with Pompey before they replaced Perrin with Redknapp again.

Mini revolutions collapse very quickly if the correct care isn't taken immediately after the main cog is removed.

[1864roverite]

I mean after all Perrin didnt do anything when he was kicked out of Pompy did he ?

Last time I heard about him he had guided his team to the very top of French football with some sort of commanding points lead.

Rovers have some serious stability in the club. They have cast iron guarantee of cash income should we have to sell a player such as Bentley who will gross a tremendous profit on our outlay,we have others that will also provide funds.

I dont see Rovers struggling as much as you might think they will.

[tcj_jones]

Indeed. I would really fear for our safety if Hughes were to leave.

[Darth Paul]

No, I tend to be stable enough never to panic over something out of my control.

And given the same bet, ie, Rovers to be relegated in the next 10 years, then, if I'm brutally honest, I think it's a strong possibility. I also think it's most likely to happen when our next managerial change happens, like it did with Charlton (Curbishley), Bolton (Allardyce), Southampton (Strachan), Leicester (O'Neill) and was about to with Pompey before they replaced Perrin with Redknapp again.

Mini revolutions collapse very quickly if the correct care isn't taken immediately after the main cog is removed.

I understand what you are saying but again, having acknowledged that my spectacles might just be a slightly stronger tint of blue than they should be, the clubs you mention, Charlton, Bolton,Southampton, Leicester, and yes even Pompey until this year,

would all be clubs that I believe to be in a lower tier of class to Rovers, particularly in terms of playing staff.

I also believe that clubs like Bolton etc, Allardyce at the helm or not, were always likely to struggle at some point, whereas Rovers, whilst being far from invincible, I feel have a bit more about them, to withstand a managerial change without going into freefall.

I am not saying that Rovers are invincible, relegation proof and will be in the Premiership forever, but what I am saying, and my conviction is only strengthened by the clubs mentioned in your last post, is that you are doing us a disservice by putting our fortunes in the same pot as these other clubs, who apart from Pompey (since the cash only) I would expect to be swapping places in the top two divisons for years to come...regardless of manager.

[mattyboy6000]

They have cast iron guarantee of cash income should we have to sell a player such as Bentley who will gross a tremendous profit on our outlay,we have others that will also provide funds.

you're forgetting all that money we got for matt jansen..

not really that cast iron, is it?

we need to rely on the club itself not cutting corners as bolton have; allardyce out lee in (cost saving); anelka out raziack in (cost saving)

they can now look forward to lower overheads and revenues. 8 seasons of bulding and one season of crap will see for notlob

it doesn't take going that far back for rovers to have done the same.

[USABlue]

I mean after all Perrin didnt do anything when he was kicked out of Pompy did he ?

Last time I heard about him he had guided his team to the very top of French football with some sort of commanding points lead.

Rovers have some serious stability in the club. They have cast iron guarantee of cash income should we have to sell a player such as Bentley who will gross a tremendous profit on our outlay,we have others that will also provide funds.

I dont see Rovers struggling as much as you might think they will.

1864 and Darth Paul, with all due respect my friends I think there is a bit of naivity on your parts. We had a huge cash inflow when we sold duffers and still struggled. Couple losing Hughes along with a top player or two and I think the writing would be clearly on the wall.

[thenodrog]

........... It's all about the momentum of events; if we sold Bentley in Summer you can be guaranteed that the feeling around the club will dive, but to what extent I'm not sure. It would basically say "lack of ambition" or "can't keep hold of big players", etc. That sends out all the wrong signals and you'll find a lot of demotivation amongst our current crop of players.

The key to that depends on who we might get to replace him. Thats where Gartside got it wrong at Bolton with Little Sam and where we have gone wrong countless times in the past. Per Pederson was hardly the man to replace Shearer was he? Neither for that matter were Dahlin, Ward, Blake etc.

[Daremz]

If Bolton relegate, can we use any of their players? I think Kevin Nolan would be an excellent player. Still though, he would go Tottenham or some club like that!

[Blue blood]

I could see a fair few of the Bolton players leaving if they go down (which I think they will). Diouf and Davies will definately go as both are good (if somewhat dislikeable) players, leaving them pretty toothless. Risak and Helgusson looked good against our reserves, but not that good.

Nolan would go, ideally to us, as would Campo and a fair few of their other foreigners. I can't see too many of their overseas contingent fancying slugging it out in the Championship. In short, I reckon Bolton could very much be facing the possibility of having to start again from scratch.

As an aside the Sammy Lee experiment was doomed from the start - he was trying to play a completely different style of football to which his squad weren't at all suited. Nolan is a cracking player but not a winger for example.

[Hughesy]

Fat boy Nolan would never ever join us! And we dont want him either!

Diouf wouldnt be a bad outlet to have as a squad player, but not sure if his attitude is right and also he is a dirty git!!

[S15]

Fat boy Nolan

Always amuses me when fat football fans label ripped footballers fat.

[Flopsy]

im not fat, I'm just big boned. Especially my gut bone. Also I'm not a professional athlete like some of the footballers suposedly are.

[Cocker]

Diouf wouldnt be a bad outlet to have as a squad player, but not sure if his attitude is right and also he is a dirty git!!

I hate him I really do. Would not want him in our team at all.

Anyway, I have a question about the Bolton relegation thing - would people not miss the games against them?

I don't live in Blackburn but I would think that the banter between Rovers and Bolton fans (I am sure a few must work with them) leading up to the game would be ace. All I have is Liverpool and Man U fans to banter with and its not much fun when they don't really care about football anyway.

So, if they went down wouldnt this be missed?

[thenodrog]

Anyway, I have a question about the Bolton relegation thing - would people not miss the games against them?

I don't live in Blackburn but I would think that the banter between Rovers and Bolton fans (I am sure a few must work with them) leading up to the game would be ace. All I have is Liverpool and Man U fans to banter with and its not much fun when they don't really care about football anyway.

So, if they went down wouldnt this be missed?

Only by Zulu Cocker.

[krislu]

If Bolton goes down lets hope Burnley can get promtion. If not, another interesting game for the fans ---- out the window!

[Billy Castell]

I think the current Burnley team would 'do a Derby' with their current squad, which would of course be hilarious. Then, in the following 5 to 10 seasons, they could implode and disappear like Bradford, Oldham or Swindon. They'd have to have a trigger happy board, and a few crap managers, but it is possible.

[trueblue]

they could implode and disappear like Bradford, Oldham or Swindon. They'd have to have a trigger happy board, and a few crap managers, but it is possible.

Oldham hasn't disappeared.. it was still there when I went to my mums on Sunday

On a more serious note.. I hate Notlob as much as anyone else, but think it would be a pity if they went down - especially if it's a southern club that replaces them in the Prem