[Archived] Other Premier League Happenings

[roversmum]

OOOOO that was a battering from Pool for Villa, and Brad's record is up the spout now. Not looking forward to our visit to Anfield in a few weeks

[gumboots]

OOOOO that was a battering from Pool for Villa, and Brad's record is up the spout now. Not looking forward to our visit to Anfield in a few weeks

The only thing that gives us any hope at all is that our game is sandwiched between the Champions League games if I'm not mistaken and Mr Benitez may come over all cautious if it's tight between them and Chelsea.

[Billy Castell]

Villa need to spend serious money on top line players if they hope to finish in the top 4 next season, but O'Neill and Lerner are very frugal. Perhaps too frugal at times.

[Exiled_Rover]

Frugal? They've spent a bloody king's ransom.

[philipl]

Guardian reporting that 20 current and former Sheff U players are looking for compensation from West Ham.

That smells like a £10m bill minimum and quite easily double that.

[Hughesy]

Cant see it being £10m if the club only got £15m + £10m when they get taken over. Would they also not need to claim off Sheff Utd rather than West Ham as they have now been compensated?

[philipl]

Cant see it being £10m if the club only got £15m + £10m when they get taken over. Would they also not need to claim off Sheff Utd rather than West Ham as they have now been compensated?

Average PL wages are over £1m a year and CC wages average £250k. Sheff U look like banking £25m out of the £45m claimed for two years' losses.

On the same basis, 20 players' losses for two seasons would come to about £30m which proportionately would pay £20m if they did as well as Sheff U.

A key element in the adjudication in Sheff U's favour was West Ham's duty of care as part of the co-operative Premier League. I think that the right to damages extends to the employees of the damaged club if I have read Lord Griffiths' arbitration report correctly as they were also owed a duty of care.

[bellamy11]

Phil - was the £10m settlement less than you anticipated or about in line with what you predicted?

[philipl]

I always felt West Ham would eventually have to pay Sheff U for their misdemeanours. To get what is effectvely an assured £25m out of an out of Court settement is a massive win when you consider that Sheff U originally asked for £21m when the case started.

Obviously it has taken time and West Ham have shifted the financial pain onto the new owners whoever they may be. It is pretty certain there will be new owners because either the Hansa administrator sells off West Ham or the Liquidator who will be appointed in June will sell West Ham. The problem in selling West Ham is again uncertainty- Sheff U have collected their losses but a lot of other people have lost because of Tevez and suffered direct losses as a result. Anyone looking to buy West Ham again could have as much as £40m or so to provide for outstanding cases from the current West Ham owners when the Curbishley, Magnusson and possibly Joorabchian cases get added in with the remaining Tevez fall out. It might still make sense for West Ham to go into administration although much less likely now.

West Ham are rendered defenseless except trying to argue they are not the direct causation of the loss. That is going to be extremely difficult to argue in the cases of employees who lost jobs or income (not just footballers- Sheff U laid off about 100 people when they went down) and PL clubs who saw £500K of place prize money go to West Ham when they got overtaken by them.

[mickbrown]

According to Gordon Taylor the players law suit is worth between £2 and £3 Million pounds.

Also if Sheff Utd are promoted within a certain number of years they payments from West Ham to Sheff Utd are reduced.

[Grabbi Graeme]

Friedel's red card against Liverpool has been rescinded by the F.A, common sense really as it was never a sending off.

[rover6]

Villa need to spend serious money on top line players if they hope to finish in the top 4 next season, but O'Neill and Lerner are very frugal. Perhaps too frugal at times.

I don't think O'Neill is good enough as a manager to get Villa into the Champions' League. They're overly reliant on set-pieces and long balls. Like Everton.

[Billy Castell]

Frugal? They've spent a bloody king's ransom.

I mean when compared to Man Utd for example. They get players like Shorey and Knight,probably over the odds, but should be more ambitious and try for someone in the £15-25m bracket. The sort of player that is, or can really be a superstar. That's not to say try and take the Man City route, but to add real quality in certain areas.

[neekoy]

West Ham are screwed

Where does this end? What about SU sponsors who missed out on prime time airing? Can supporters seek damages for mental distress? Can WH supporters counter sue for the same thing if there club goes into administration?

If Villa miss out on Champions League qualification by 1 goal difference can they sue the referee for issuing a red card whihc led to a penalty that was later overturned?

Then Liverpool have a goal deducted to rectify the mistake and they miss out on the title because of goal difference and they sue as well.

The right thing is that WH are relegated like Leeds and that should be the end of it.

[thenodrog]

Where does this end? What about SU sponsors who missed out on prime time airing? Can supporters seek damages for mental distress? Can WH supporters counter sue for the same thing if there club goes into administration?

If Villa miss out on Champions League qualification by 1 goal difference can they sue the referee for issuing a red card whihc led to a penalty that was later overturned?

Then Liverpool have a goal deducted to rectify the mistake and they miss out on the title because of goal difference and they sue as well.

The right thing is that WH are relegated like Leeds and that should be the end of it.

Amen to that! The crooked shennanigins at the time has resulted in a modern day Pandoros Box.

Although on second thoughts we might be due a bob or two should we be relegated by one point or GD from Saturdays linesman.

[Billy Castell]

We should sue Jim Devine for Tevez's goal last season, sue the Whammers for playing Tevez in the first place, sue them for the points lost that might have got us into Europe............................................................

Whilst most of it is lawyers and people jumping on the bandwaggon, the point remains that West Ham cheated, and more or less got away with it. Send them down.

[leftfooter]

According to Gordon Taylor the players law suit is worth between £2 and £3 Million pounds.

Also if Sheff Utd are promoted within a certain number of years they payments from West Ham to Sheff Utd are reduced.

When this issue was previously being discussed several weeks ago (I can't be bothered trawling the archive for your comments) you enigmatically presented yourself as some kind of Essex oracle and asserted that it had already been agreed between the parties that Sheff Utd would agree to accept 10M in damages from West Ham in consideration of the latter's fraudulent conduct.

You further stated that the Premier League enquiry would go nowhere and that Joorabchian was on the payroll at the Boleyn Ground as a quid pro quo for his silence.

It then transpired that most informed reports suggested that the settlement figure is actually 20M rising to 25M. Meanwhile the Premier League enquiry gathers momentum, Joorabchian remains an unknown quantity and potential plaintiff numbers are mounting to the virtual equivalent of an English sporting class action.

You were wrong then and I suspect you are wrong now. As usual. You have neither credibility nor, I would wager, any authority to seriously comment on this issue.

[gumboots]

We should sue Jim Devine for Tevez's goal last season, sue the Whammers for playing Tevez in the first place, sue them for the points lost that might have got us into Europe............................................................

Whilst most of it is lawyers and people jumping on the bandwaggon, the point remains that West Ham cheated, and more or less got away with it. Send them down.

I would have thought that since they didn't send them down at the time they are unlikely to do it now. It's the sense of justice not having been done that has got to people. In retrospect those who made the original decision not to dock points must wish they'd had more guts and done it because it would have been over and done with. West ham would have whinged but could have done little as there were plenty of precedents for points deductions. As it is they fudged the whole issue and hoped West ham would go down anyway, which at the time looked likely. However, getting away with it seemed to give them all a lift and they escaped, leading to the unsavoury goings on that are still continuing. It can't be good for the image of football at a time when crowds are having to look at where they spend their money to see things like this going on.

[mickbrown]

When this issue was previously being discussed several weeks ago (I can't be bothered trawling the archive for your comments) you enigmatically presented yourself as some kind of Essex oracle and asserted that it had already been agreed between the parties that Sheff Utd would agree to accept 10M in damages from West Ham in consideration of the latter's fraudulent conduct.

You further stated that the Premier League enquiry would go nowhere and that Joorabchian was on the payroll at the Boleyn Ground as a quid pro quo for his silence.

It then transpired that most informed reports suggested that the settlement figure is actually 20M rising to 25M. Meanwhile the Premier League enquiry gathers momentum, Joorabchian remains an unknown quantity and potential plaintiff numbers are mounting to the virtual equivalent of an English sporting class action.

You were wrong then and I suspect you are wrong now. As usual. You have neither credibility nor, I would wager, any authority to seriously comment on this issue.

I have never claimed to be any "oracle" on this issue, and what is the initial payment ? Closer to the £10 Million that the £50 Million quoted by others, subsequent payments depend on a number of issues the main one being if Sheff Utd are promoted or not. Bramwell has also talked about loaning players from West Ham as payment, so what final "cash sum" will be handed over to Sheff Utd is anybodies guess....

The Premier League inquiry recently commissioned has gone/going nowhere unless I missed it !?

Kia is an unknown quantity and at the moment is still on West Ham's payroll. Who says anything different ?Kia is not afraid of the media so surely if he was taking action against West Ham every man and his dog would know about it.......

Did West Ham have a fire sale in January as most were predicting ? West Ham some 1 first teamer - Bellamy and reduced the wage bill by loaning out the deadwood. Hardly the actions of a club in crisis........especially with good money on the table for Parker, Cole. Green and Upson.

In my most recent posts I was merely repeating what the "esteemed" Gordon Taylor has said about the player claims. He stated the figure, I did not make it up.

[leftfooter]

I have never claimed to be any "oracle" on this issue, and what is the initial payment ? Closer to the £10 Million that the £50 Million quoted by others, subsequent payments depend on a number of issues the main one being if Sheff Utd are promoted or not. Bramwell has also talked about loaning players from West Ham as payment, so what final "cash sum" will be handed over to Sheff Utd is anybodies guess....

The Premier League inquiry recently commissioned has gone/going nowhere unless I missed it !?

Kia is an unknown quantity and at the moment is still on West Ham's payroll. Who says anything different ?Kia is not afraid of the media so surely if he was taking action against West Ham every man and his dog would know about it.......

Did West Ham have a fire sale in January as most were predicting ? West Ham some 1 first teamer - Bellamy and reduced the wage bill by loaning out the deadwood. Hardly the actions of a club in crisis........especially with good money on the table for Parker, Cole. Green and Upson.

In my most recent posts I was merely repeating what the "esteemed" Gordon Taylor has said about the player claims. He stated the figure, I did not make it up.

"...and what is the initial payment ? Closer to the £10 Million that the £50 Million quoted by others..."

But a lot further from the £10 Million so bullish quoted by you 'Mick'.

No fire sale in January but West Ham will continue to sell in the summer if they want to avoid administration.

It's getting harder to flog a Premier League club by the day, especially one in distress as Portsmouth's bargain basement overtures show. West Ham's cringe worthy bravado notwithstanding it will not withstand legal scrutiny in respect of the various law suits awaiting it in the High Court, should they decline to cough up to Curbishley and other sundry claimants.

Few parties will be interested in acquiring a perennially hopeless commodity like West Ham in any case, but even less so whilst it still drags its dreary length before the High Court like a latter day Jarndyce v. Jarndyce.

[Hughesy]

That geezer at Pompey has reduced the asking price by half to only £35m apparently.

[mickbrown]

"...and what is the initial payment ? Closer to the £10 Million that the £50 Million quoted by others..."

But a lot further from the £10 Million so bullish quoted by you 'Mick'.

No fire sale in January but West Ham will continue to sell in the summer if they want to avoid administration.

It's getting harder to flog a Premier League club by the day, especially one in distress as Portsmouth's bargain basement overtures show. West Ham's cringe worthy bravado notwithstanding it will not withstand legal scrutiny in respect of the various law suits awaiting it in the High Court, should they decline to cough up to Curbishley and other sundry claimants.

Few parties will be interested in acquiring a perennially hopeless commodity like West Ham in any case, but even less so whilst it still drags its dreary length before the High Court like a latter day Jarndyce v. Jarndyce.

Didn't realise you were on the West Ham board and had access to their financial position ?

I love these "statements" which are rumour but are potrayed as fact........

West Ham are (i assume) close to a sale or the extension in the icelandic courts wouldn't have been granted which relate to the debts of Hansa(holding company).

West Ham are a very attractive investment compared to Portsmouth. With little short term debts and secured long term debts(per the last set of accounts). They have raised over £30 Million in the past 12 months with player sales. The wage bill has been drastically reduced over the past few years with possible liabilities due to court cases of around £13 Million(which is a guess on my part, not fact). 3 Million to players, Curbs £5 Million, Eggy £1Million, Fulham £500K, Kia who knows........lol

So I cannot honestly see why West Ham's future isn't secure ?

But its more fun to portray problems where there are obviously some but not to the extent where the club are in danger.

[leftfooter]

Didn't realise you were on the West Ham board and had access to their financial position ?

I love these "statements" which are rumour but are potrayed as fact........

West Ham are (i assume) close to a sale or the extension in the icelandic courts wouldn't have been granted which relate to the debts of Hansa(holding company).

West Ham are a very attractive investment compared to Portsmouth. With little short term debts and secured long term debts(per the last set of accounts). They have raised over £30 Million in the past 12 months with player sales. The wage bill has been drastically reduced over the past few years with possible liabilities due to court cases of around £13 Million(which is a guess on my part, not fact). 3 Million to players, Curbs £5 Million, Eggy £1Million, Fulham £500K, Kia who knows........lol

So I cannot honestly see why West Ham's future isn't secure ?

But its more fun to portray problems where there are obviously some but not to the extent where the club are in danger.

"...So I cannot honestly see why West Ham's future isn't secure ?..."

I'd hate you to choke on your Tubby Issacs Cockney clichéd flavoured jellied eels Mick but the truth is that it was only this summer that the West Ham board finally acknowledged what we already knew - that West Ham were like Wile E Coyote, obliviously defying gravity after running over the precipice only then to look down and suddenly realise that the air is very thin and the bottom a long long way down. The funny thing is, you appear to be still in self denial. You remind me of the guy that's falling off a thirty storey building ticking off each balcony on his list as he passes mumbling to himself 'I’m alright so far'.

"...West Ham are a very attractive investment compared to Portsmouth. With little short term debts and secured long term debts(per the last set of accounts)..."

Whilst the likes of Chelsea and Fulham (with debts of £620m & £182m respectively) have rich and committed owners and the likes of Liverpool £450m & Manchester Utd £605m are world brands and are (sadly) too big to go under, West Ham my friend have neither the guarantee of the former nor the cache of the latter.

"...The wage bill has been drastically reduced over the past few years..."

Let me disabuse you from your cosy self-denial. West Ham were along with Portsmouth, the principal culprits behind the credit fuelled spend spend spend bonanza that triggered such a damaging inflationary spiral in the Premier League over the past few seasons. It was West Ham that agreed to pay ludicrous wages to the likes of Kieron Dyer, Lucas Neil, Freddie Lundberg and the other also rans. Craig Bellamy was bought only last season, barely played but was still picking up ridiculous wages. Thank your lucky stars Hughes came to the rescue there.

When spending their way to success proved out of their reach they then turned to cheating their way up the table. Stable well run clubs either had to risk keeping up with the Premier League Jones' and subsequently going bust or face the prospect of relegation (e.g. Reading).

At least Portsmouth will look back and say they at least won a trophy. West Ham on the other hand have nothing to show for their frenzy other than a king sized financial hangover, the antipathy of most fair minded football fans and the prospect of reverting to its former status under 'Arry Redknap; selling its barrow boy players off the back of a lorry.

[philipl]

West Ham are at best half way out of the mire. To have got this far is a remarkable survival act/ brevado /effective use of influence.

The wages are reduced but still too high.

Litigation is reduced but my guess is the potential exposure is still in the tens of millions.

Lord Griffiths has branded the club and it's current directors as two faced and deliberately misleading the Premier League and there is an enquiry that will probably deduct points and impose hefty fines.

The owner will soon be a liquidator if none of the five suitors can stand the stink of the place. i

[neekoy]

I would have thought that since they didn't send them down at the time they are unlikely to do it now.

I would think West Ham would ask for it, once it happens any legal challenges wouldnt have weight.