[Archived] Other Premier League Happenings

[philipl]

I think the interest around 25year old Zaki highlights that there are plenty of players around the world (and probably in England as well) that haven't been snapped up and can be found with the right scouts in the right places.

There was a lot of criticism of Andrews saying if he was good enough he would have been picked up before, this is not always the case, and still means a bargain can be had (which is surely better than spending vast sums of money). I think in the current climate it will pay to be thrifty (and develop youth).

I think Blackburn Rovers will do quite well, we have a board that is not scared of NOT spending money, and I think at the moment, that will do us the world of good.

I haven't seen anything of Keith Andrews which makes me think he is a bargain at £1.3m.

Anyone disagree?

Vogel is a much better player and he cost nothing.

[Hughesy]

It depends on what you class as a bargain - It was only £800k with add-ons which make it up to £1.3m. For that sort of money he hasn't looked out of place really (other than Arsenal).

Reid cost more, Dunn was sold for £5.5m, So £1.3m after add-ons for a premier league standard midfielder - id class that as a bargain really. After all we could have spent more than that on someone like Joey Barton.

As for vogel, he's injured so its a stupid arguement anyway.

[CrazyIvan]

It depends on what you class as a bargain - It was only £800k with add-ons which make it up to £1.3m. For that sort of money he hasn’t looked out of place really (other than Arsenal).

Reid cost more, Dunn was sold for £5.5m, So £1.3m after add-ons for a premier league standard midfielder – id class that as a bargain really. After all we could have spent more than that on someone like Joey Barton

Quick thing on Joey Barton, apparently Ashley and Wise wanted to get rid of him to save the £80k per week wages. £80k a week?? For sitting in his cell?? There's something wrong if Joey Barton is worth £80k a week even without all the crap he's done!

[philipl]

Vogel is now completely fit and frozen out by Ince. Ince does not like him as a footballer.

I am yet to see much that indicates Andrews is a Premier League midfielder.

[BuckyRover]

Vogel is now completely fit and frozen out by Ince. Ince does not like him as a footballer.

I am yet to see much that indicates Andrews is a Premier League midfielder.

You have just completely made something up and claimed it as fact.

Where is there any hard evidence that Ince does not like vogel "as a footballer"?

I thought we already understood that Ince picked players on a game by game basis dependent on many things, but one of them is how they perform in training, have you seen any training sessions, do you know what kind of attitude Vogel is displaying???

I am pretty confident that Ince knows a lot more than "our man in Malta"

[gumboots]

See Beye's appeal was successful

[philipl]

You have just completely made something up and claimed it as fact.

Where is there any hard evidence that Ince does not like vogel "as a footballer"?

I thought we already understood that Ince picked players on a game by game basis dependent on many things, but one of them is how they perform in training, have you seen any training sessions, do you know what kind of attitude Vogel is displaying???

I am pretty confident that Ince knows a lot more than "our man in Malta"

Read the Johann Vogel thread on the Rovers official website.

Admin said:

It is quite straightforward, the manager prefers other players for that position.

and

This is what happens when clubs change managers, people have different ideas.

Bucky, your withdrawal and apology is accepted.

[DingleBaiter]

Vogel is now completely fit and frozen out by Ince. Ince does not like him as a footballer.

I am yet to see much that indicates Andrews is a Premier League midfielder.

I'd suggest the criteria Ince is applying to Andrews, Vogel etc. is not purely & simply 'he doesn't like him as a footballer' Philip?

The lad (Vogel) has clearly got talent & was injured/off-form when Ince arrived. Since then, players such as Andrews - who he knows implicitly, particularly what he can/can't do - have come into the squad, trained and played well(generally). Seems that now Vogel is fit, he's not got the spirit for the fight, miserable & grumpy and just drawing his coin would be my guess. Benedict's done what Ince wanted him to do, and he's worked himself into likely starting up front with Roque against Boro.

Andrews hasn't been the flop people expected; neither has it been the automatic first-choice, best-mates fest certain elements suggested. I do accept the point that it's strange to see why someone of Vogel's class isn't seemingly in contention for a place, but doesn't that suggest something more than the obvious assumption? I'm confident if Vogel showed enough in training he'd have as much chance as anyone. However, I also think it's the case Judgey will be higher up the pecking order than Vogel, and would probably have played already if he hadn't been away with internationals, or out with injuries.

Guess it's a similar argument for Lars Bohinen against Billy McKinlay

PS. Philip - That link didn't work for me, but I'm guessing it's still only opinions, albeit on the 'official' site? Had already written this then saw the cut/pasted comments ...

[Al]

I don't know why Vogel get's so much respect. He always looked lightweight to me.

The problem I have with Andrews is that he was bought for something between £800K and £1.3 mil. and is not better than players we already had. (Grella has already been signed when we signed Andrews) The Golden rule when signing a player is that he should improve the team. Andrews does not get into the team so he does not.

This also applies to Fowler. I know there was no fee but we are still paying his wages. If you need a reserve you play a reserve. If the reserve is not good enough he should not be at the club.

This wasted money could have gone towards signing the right winger that we so badly need.

[Hughesy]

OMG here we go again. Ince & co didnt have long to find the right players for the right wing - they tried with Joaquin, Lopez, Pennant - but none of them came off. BLAME INCE - He should of found a 4th winger in that little time!

Id rather the club spent money wisely and not rush out and pay £8m on a foreign flop (abit like Bolton with £11m for Elmander it looks like). Who then becomes a reserve that isnt good enough for the club - yet we have wasted £8m on him!

Fowler is on pay as you play so it doesnt really matter about him as if he doesnt play or perform, he doesnt get paid.

Andrews is a squad player and if we didnt sign him. We would now be really short in midfield with both Dunn & Reid Injured and Grella only just coming back.

[DingleBaiter]

I don't know why Vogel get's so much respect. He always looked lightweight to me.

The problem I have with Andrews is that he was bought for something between £800K and £1.3 mil. and is not better than players we already had. (Grella has already been signed when we signed Andrews) The Golden rule when signing a player is that he should improve the team. Andrews does not get into the team so he does not.

This also applies to Fowler. I know there was no fee but we are still paying his wages. If you need a reserve you play a reserve. If the reserve is not good enough he should not be at the club.

This wasted money could have gone towards signing the right winger that we so badly need.

So, I presume all of Hughes's signings (other than Vogel) fulfilled this criteria too. Ritgers? Henchoz? Berner?

So, in applying your reserve logic - every single player at the club should be 'good enough'? Can you recall which manager best typified your approach to player recruitment then?

Applying your rationale, I can recall us signing a player that not one single person I knew, spoke to or heard from at the time could see why we'd signed him. Most folks recalled his previous period at an English club as being pretty poor, far from a first teamer, and we already have 3 decent players in the goalkeeper department. Even to this day I've not known an incoming player never have somebody think it's a good signing, apart from in this instance. However, I seem to recall Brad Friedel not doing too bad for us in the scheme of things.

How can you suggest we wasted our money when we still had money to spend on a right winger but decided not to overspend, or gamble? Even if we'd not spent any money we still probably wouldn't have gambled.

[modes98]

Ince & co didnt have long to find the right players for the right wing

A couple of months is not a massive amount of time but they should have had a back up loan player to bring in. Having said that if someone could give Emerton confidence in himself to cross the ball it would be a non arguement, he is one of the best crossers about for accuracy. He just needs to have the faith in himself to put the ball in, like he did with that one he put on Roberts head on saturday.

[Al]

So, I presume all of Hughes's signings (other than Vogel) fulfilled this criteria too. Ritgers? Henchoz? Berner?

So, in applying your reserve logic - every single player at the club should be 'good enough'? Can you recall which manager best typified your approach to player recruitment then?

Applying your rationale, I can recall us signing a player that not one single person I knew, spoke to or heard from at the time could see why we'd signed him. Most folks recalled his previous period at an English club as being pretty poor, far from a first teamer, and we already have 3 decent players in the goalkeeper department. Even to this day I've not known an incoming player never have somebody think it's a good signing, apart from in this instance. However, I seem to recall Brad Friedel not doing too bad for us in the scheme of things.

How can you suggest we wasted our money when we still had money to spend on a right winger but decided not to overspend, or gamble? Even if we'd not spent any money we still probably wouldn't have gambled.

Did I say that Hughes always signed the right players? Thought not, although Rigters and Berner were youngsters who he thought might mature. He was wrong! Henchoz was a bad signing full stop. Brad went straight into the first team and was better than we had.

I also refuse to accept that Fowler gets nothing if he does not play.

If we had not signed those two I believe we would have an extra £2mil at least to buy the players we really need in January. That could be the difference between mediocre and good. Apart from Robinson and (possibly) Grella we appear to be buying mediocrity. Villenueva is a gamble but one that I believe is worth taking.

[DingleBaiter]

Did I say that Hughes always signed the right players? Thought not, although Rigters and Berner were youngsters who he thought might mature. He was wrong! Henchoz was a bad signing full stop. Brad went straight into the first team and was better than we had.

I also refuse to accept that Fowler gets nothing if he does not play.

If we had not signed those two I believe we would have an extra £2mil at least to buy the players we really need in January. That could be the difference between mediocre and good. Apart from Robinson and (possibly) Grella we appear to be buying mediocrity. Villenueva is a gamble but one that I believe is worth taking.

Your logic, and your argument, appears to be as fuzzy as a pair of dice hanging from a mirror in a Ford Escort in Romford.

At the very least, it lacks consistency.

[DingleBaiter]

Did I say that Hughes always signed the right players? Thought not, although Rigters and Berner were youngsters who he thought might mature. He was wrong! Henchoz was a bad signing full stop. Brad went straight into the first team and was better than we had.

I also refuse to accept that Fowler gets nothing if he does not play.

If we had not signed those two I believe we would have an extra £2mil at least to buy the players we really need in January. That could be the difference between mediocre and good. Apart from Robinson and (possibly) Grella we appear to be buying mediocrity. Villenueva is a gamble but one that I believe is worth taking.

Your logic, and your argument, appears to be as fuzzy as a pair of dice hanging from a mirror in a Ford Escort in Romford.

At the very least, it lacks consistency. You're knocking his signings in general, then reserve judgement on the majority of them!

Make your mind up ......

You can't sensibly put two sweeping generalisations in about every incoming player should be better than any existing, nor that every reserve should be good enough to play for the first team. A thing could 'realism' could intervene in that concept.

End of day, one opinion matters - Ince's. I can see where you feel there is mediocrity in some of his signings, but there was also mediocrity in the existing squad too? Football's always ephemeral/transitory - as can be seen from Brad, there only seemed to be Souness at the time that believed in him rather than the fans, which shows the value in placing faith in him.

[BRFC1995]

Has there ever been a summer transfer window where so many big transfers have been so bad. never been a summer better to keep our money in our pocket.

Jo,keane,elmander,bentley,modric,crouch,berbatov,fellianni,johnson,cisse............only the ones i can think of that cost double figure millions and have'nt done remotely enough to look better than what you could pick up for a million from mk dons. May well be a few managers never trusted with the chequebook again ala hodgson,megson,ramos,moyes.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I know this isn't premier league, but Spurs play tonight against Udinese who are second in Serie A.

Ramos to get the chop tonight if they lose?

BTW no Bentley starting or on the subs bench

[dopper69]

Thought not, although Rigters and Berner were youngsters who he thought might mature.

30 year old Berner??

[Al]

Your logic, and your argument, appears to be as fuzzy as a pair of dice hanging from a mirror in a Ford Escort in Romford.

At the very least, it lacks consistency. You're knocking his signings in general, then reserve judgement on the majority of them!

Make your mind up ......

Read what I say not what you are saying I say. I did not knock the club's signing in general. I was very specific about which transfers I was referring to. Robinson is as good a keeper as we could get. Grella is a current international who could (and should) be a better holding midfielder than we had, and Villeneuva MIGHT be a brilliant signing if we decide to buy him.

Yes there was already mediocrity at the club but those two signings added to it AT A COST.

By the way I did not mention Ince's name. Others jumped on to that particular bandwagon.

[92er]

Your logic, and your argument, appears to be as fuzzy as a pair of dice hanging from a mirror in a Ford Escort in Romford.

At the very least, it lacks consistency. You're knocking his signings in general, then reserve judgement on the majority of them!

Make your mind up ......

You can't sensibly put two sweeping generalisations in about every incoming player should be better than any existing, nor that every reserve should be good enough to play for the first team. A thing could 'realism' could intervene in that concept.

End of day, one opinion matters - Ince's. I can see where you feel there is mediocrity in some of his signings, but there was also mediocrity in the existing squad too? Football's always ephemeral/transitory - as can be seen from Brad, there only seemed to be Souness at the time that believed in him rather than the fans, which shows the value in placing faith in him.

In the past few years JW has on a number of occasions made the point that, in general, players purchased should be first teamers and the youth system should provide squad players.

I agree that the signing of Rigters appears not to fall in with the above statement, but I imagine, as with Olson, it might have been a purchase for the future that would hopefully work out.

Dunn(injured),Tugay,Emerton,Reid(although now injured) and Grella would all start in centre midfield before Andrews. Supporters of Andrews have said he is OK, sometimes people say he is good. What I can't fathom, on footballing grounds, why Ince was so keen to sign a squad player when we had funds to bring in a better quality player.

As for Fowler, who I guess is 5th choice striker, why were we bringing him in? OK, if he grabbed his last chance of making it again at Premiership level and had made a pretty quick impact it's a gamble that could be justified. But has he? And signing him meant that less time was being spent on searching out and bringing in more appropriate players.

And people who are not convinced by Ince use these 2 signings as huge question marks about him

[RibbleValleyRover]

Spurs 2-0 down!

Adios Ramos?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Hope not, he's doing a smashing job.

[BuckyRover]

In the past few years JW has on a number of occasions made the point that, in general, players purchased should be first teamers and the youth system should provide squad players.

I agree that the signing of Rigters appears not to fall in with the above statement, but I imagine, as with Olson, it might have been a purchase for the future that would hopefully work out.

Dunn(injured),Tugay,Emerton,Reid(although now injured) and Grella would all start in centre midfield before Andrews. Supporters of Andrews have said he is OK, sometimes people say he is good. What I can't fathom, on footballing grounds, why Ince was so keen to sign a squad player when we had funds to bring in a better quality player.

As for Fowler, who I guess is 5th choice striker, why were we bringing him in? OK, if he grabbed his last chance of making it again at Premiership level and had made a pretty quick impact it's a gamble that could be justified. But has he? And signing him meant that less time was being spent on searching out and bringing in more appropriate players.

And people who are not convinced by Ince use these 2 signings as huge question marks about him

If Benni has managed to get himself into shape, maybe it was the signing of Fowler that encouraged him to pull his socks up. It may not be an obvious consequence but it probably had some impact.

Ince should be given credit for that if it transpires.

[Mr Creosote]

If Benni has managed to get himself into shape, maybe it was the signing of Fowler that encouraged him to pull his socks up. It may not be an obvious consequence but it probably had some impact.

Ince should be given credit for that if it transpires.

Blimey Bucky! You are Stalin to Thenodrog's Hitler!

[dr_awol]

whats the difference between spurs and a triangle?

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A triangle has 3 points

GF told me that one