[Archived] Rovers Young Guns

[Philly Rover ®]

And now, back by popular demand (or because I unilaterally thought it was a good idea, but let's not split hairs here)...

There was an old Academy thread I started a few years back, but as it included names like Jay McEveley, Jemal Johnson and Jerome Watt, I thought it would be useful to start a brand new thread for this campaign. Unlike two years ago, however, it's also necessary to discuss Glyn Hodges' reserves as well when talking about the youngsters. This, of course, is a result of one of Mark Hughes' good policies, the use of the reserve team to bring along youngsters instead of carrying the bloated salaries of past it players like Lorenzo Amoruso.

Gary Bowyer's lads are off to a solid start, picking up a point in a 1-1 draw at Sunderland on Saturday in their first league match of the year, while the reserves don't have their first league action until September.

As far as individuals go, nicko has mentioned on his thread that the staff really seem to like fullback Tony Kane. Youngsters Eddie Nolan, Keith Treacy, Martin Olsson and Frank Fielding also merited squad numbers last year. Obviously I don't get the opportunity to assess these players, but it comes up time and time again on this board that the ability to produce a first team player by bringing him through the youth system (like Derbyshire, though I know he was technically purchased for a small fee as a 17 year old) saves on buying every player and helps the team immensely.

Which of this current crop of youngsters will make the step up? Any regular commentary throughout the season by those who get the chance to see the reserve and Academy sides is greatly appreciated.

[philipl]

From what I hear, Mackie who is at Cercle Bruge is seen as a bright hope and that German midfielder whose name I have forgotten looks extremely promising.

I guess Kane will get a game at RB if he is so close to first team selection and the club don't see Berner-esque cover as a necessity on that side and I did like the look of Olssen when he came on at Preston from the clips I have seen.

Wonder wheter Raffa da Vita will make it as a forward?

Treacy and Nolan will probably overtake Peter this year if they are to break through.

[Alan75]

From what I hear, Mackie who is at Cercle Bruge is seen as a bright hope and that German midfielder whose name I have forgotten looks extremely promising.

I guess Kane will get a game at RB if he is so close to first team selection and the club don't see Berner-esque cover as a necessity on that side and I did like the look of Olssen when he came on at Preston from the clips I have seen.

Wonder wheter Raffa da Vita will make it as a forward?

Treacy and Nolan will probably overtake Peter this year if they are to break through.

Mackie - Who is this nickname ?

Wonder wheter Raffa da Vita will make it as a forward? - Not in the premiership ! unless he improves drastically.

Nolan - he's a defender so I doubt he will play left midfield instead of Peter !

[EwoodGlory]

German midfielder whose name I have forgotten looks extremely promising.

Mamadi Keita

Heard very good things about him, also I think there is a video of him on youtube

[rover6]

Wonder wheter Raffa da Vita will make it as a forward? - Not in the premiership ! unless he improves drastically.

That's what they said about Matt Derbyshire. It only takes a first team start and a good performance or even a goal, and someone who was apparently predestined for the lower leagues is a Premiership player.

It's going to be hard for any of the reserves to get into the first team. With the squad as big as it is, guys like Taylor and Nolan who were making matchday squads last season aren't this time around and therefore barring a major injury crisis, their chances our near zero.

The person closest to making the breakthrough is Martin Olsson who is seemingly only a Stephen Warnock injury/suspension away from making a Premier League start. However, Olsson must be praying for his chance to come soon because the mighty Bruno Berner is on the road to recovery.

[Philly]

EwoodGlory mentioned Mamadi Keita, but I also remembered hearing good things about Kevin Pezzoni, the big German midfielder/defender we signed a few years back.

Also, does anyone know why Keith Treacy didn't figure in the Ireland U21 match with Kane and Nolan this week? I thought someone posted an article a few weeks back about Treacy making a push in the next few years for the full Ireland squad, so I had just assumed that he figured with the U21's.

And speaking of left midfielders, I also wonder if Rovers will push through the deal for the Danish winger they had on trial.

[Hypo-Luxa]

EwoodGlory mentioned Mamadi Keita, but I also remembered hearing good things about Kevin Pezzoni, the big German midfielder/defender we signed a few years back.

Also, does anyone know why Keith Treacy didn't figure in the Ireland U21 match with Kane and Nolan this week? I thought someone posted an article a few weeks back about Treacy making a push in the next few years for the full Ireland squad, so I had just assumed that he figured with the U21's.

And speaking of left midfielders, I also wonder if Rovers will push through the deal for the Danish winger they had on trial.

Pezzoni left a good impression on me when I saw him a few years ago. And from what I hear he's only progressed. He's a big enough lad where the only thing that will hold him back will be his positioning and reading of the play developing in front of him.

I was hoping we would have gotten 4 goals or so at MyPa(is it really pronounced MooPa??) so that we could get some young ones into the side for a start. Treacy and kane intrigue me and I do want to see Rigters and peter get a run out.

[Alan75]

That's what they said about Matt Derbyshire.

Who said that ?

[herbergeehh]

I also recall the young defender Gavin Gunning being touted as a future star, wasn't he wanted by Arsenal amongst other teams?

[philipl]

Frank Fielding and a Bolton Polish keeper have gone to Wycombe on loan after they lost both their keepers to injuries.

[Hypo-Luxa]

So is anyone going to see Samba's countryman in action for the Academy today?

[USABlue]

Depressingly little coming through our youth system it seems. Something perhaps fundamentally wrong. Good lower league players but little of true Prem standards, you'd think almost by default there should be at least one every couple of years and I don't know if Matty really counts. Boro seem to have managed to raise a few good ones.

[pick32]

joe garner has scored 2 today no surprise realy expect to see bug things from him shame it wont be in a rovers shirt.

[Dunnfc]

I belive we have,

treacy,

nolan,

gunning,

keita,

hoilett,

olsson

are all coming through.

[rover6]

Who said that ?

Quite a few people - could try and dig them out, if you want.

No one was strongly advocating Matt Derbyshire for first team duty (on this messageboard anyway) just before he made the breakthrough and I remember some people reporting from reserve fixtures having been unimpressed by Derbs' potential. (Too weak etc. etc.). And Mark Hughes has admitted that he had not believed Derbs to be ready at the time he blooded him due to injuries to Nonda, Jeffers and Roberts.

I think that the Derbyshire case just highlights that a youngster does not have to be absolutely brilliant for the reserves to make an impact in the first team. He's a promising striker with a lot of good attributes but not a 'genius' - in fact Paul Gallagher scored many more goals for the reserves. Matt Derbyshire's reserve goal record was more akin to Jemal Johnson's, I believe (but would need to double check that).

Joe Garner: As for Garner - i think he'll make a decent League One striker and may even make it to the Championship before too long and I wouldn't rule out him one day making it to the Prem. However, Hughes was right to cash in. Carlisle were prepared to break their transfer record (admittedly not an immensely high threshold) for a goal poacher who had not made that big an impact for the reserves and was displaying temperamental issues on the pitch. We signed Santa Cruz and Rigters, meaning there was no room for Garner to have the first team opps he was craving. I accept queries about the suitability of signing Righters but none about Santa Cruz.

Martin Olsson: Surprise, surprise - a youngster gets a chance because of injuries to the glass ceiling and acquits himself well, thus casting doubt upon the placing of the glass impediment. When the glass ceiling is repaired, I wonder what side of it Olsson will find himself. Hopeful, the right side for him, and not the side that Nolan, Taylor and Peter find themselves.

[bob fleming]

Martin Olsson: Surprise, surprise - a youngster gets a chance because of injuries to the glass ceiling and acquits himself well, thus casting doubt upon the placing of the glass impediment. When the glass ceiling is repaired, I wonder what side of it Olsson will find himself. Hopeful, the right side for him, and not the side that Nolan, Taylor and Peter find themselves.

Are you Eric Cantona?

"He is on ze wrong side of ze glass ceiling, looking in, waiting for ze repair".

[Paul Mellelieu]

What exactly is your point rover6? Is the club failing to give young players, who in your opinion ready for first team experience, a chance? Is Hughes not picking the best team? Spell it out in simple terms rather than spouting a load of pretentious twaddle.

You know I trust Hughes, and the rest of the coaching staff, to get it right as he sees all these players day-to-day in training.

[bob fleming]

I think the point he is making and has made for many years now is that the likes of Ciaran Donnelly, Sergio Peter, Eddie Nolan etc etc haven't been thrown into the first team squad at the first opportunity. They are not getting their chance and as a result are becoming poorer players. They'll eventually leave Rovers and never go on to fulfill their potential as world beaters, purely because they haven't been given a chance in our first team.

Is that right rover6 - Something along those lines isn't it?

He may have a point but:

1. As Paul says the manager sees these players day in day out. If he thinks they're good enough they'll get a game (e.g. Derbyshire (although sooner than Hughes would have liked as R6 pointed out) and now Olsson. Peter has also been given a chance if you ask me but hasn't done enough to keep MGP (or Dunn now) out.

2. If they are good enough for the Premier League than why don't other Premier League teams come in for them?

3. Throwing players in at the end of the season isn't as easy as it used to be. These days there's £500k per place. More often than not we're playing for something (Euro qualification) right until the end of the season. This is why Hughes allows the likes of Paul Gallagher to go out on loan. Unfortunately the reserve league is nothing but a glorified youth league anyway these days as clubs don't tend to play first team "squad players" so there's no decent standard there for players to prove themselves.

4. Of all the players let go I can't think of one who has proved the club wrong and made it at the very highest level. Just 'cause we don't fancy them doesn't mean they can't go elsewhere and "climb up the ladder". Or do we nobble them on the way out of Brockhall?

[philipl]

Spot on Bob.

This is the Arsenal production line. Frightening. Worth bearing in mind that Arsenal have spent more in transfer fees for those youngsters than Rovers have for their entire squad.

And none of them can get past Samba and Nelsen.

[rover6]

I think the point he is making and has made for many years now is that the likes of Ciaran Donnelly, Sergio Peter, Eddie Nolan etc etc haven't been thrown into the first team squad at the first opportunity. They are not getting their chance and as a result are becoming poorer players. They'll eventually leave Rovers and never go on to fulfill their potential as world beaters, purely because they haven't been given a chance in our first team.

Is that right rover6 - Something along those lines isn't it?

Yup, perfectly (and somewhat more succinctly) put.

My belief is that there is an optimum stage in a promising youth players career when they have to start getting first team opportunities or some similar kind of genuine incentive to fulfil their potential. If that stage in their career passes, for most it is downhill all the way - apart from the odd player who has the luck/tenacity to come back after being released.

Imo we have missed the boat with guys like Eddie Nolan and Andy Taylor. Keeping 20/21 year olds and over, in the reserves with no hope of first team starts, is a waste of time because the rot has set in.

[ABBEY]

Yup, perfectly (and somewhat more succinctly) put.

My belief is that there is an optimum stage in a promising youth players career when they have to start getting first team opportunities or some similar kind of genuine incentive to fulfil their potential. If that stage in their career passes, for most it is downhill all the way - apart from the odd player who has the luck/tenacity to come back after being released.

Imo we have missed the boat with guys like Eddie Nolan and Andy Taylor. Keeping 20/21 year olds and over, in the reserves with no hope of first team starts, is a waste of time because the rot has set in.

SO YET AGAIN YOU KNOW BEST?

[den]

Fair enough rover6, but that indicates that they should all play in the first team at some time in their career. Now someone has to make a judgement on that, because that clearly wont happen. So who has to decide on the youngsters who should be given their chance? - and at the end of the day, how many has any rovers manager sold, that have gone on to play at the top level?

[Paul Mellelieu]

What this essentially comes down to is that Mark Hughes is a worse judge of a player than rover6. Now i would take all this noise a tad more seriously if our youth system expert had seen much of any of these players. He has never claimed to have seen any of the youth set-up in action, and therefore his assertion that he "believes" that the club is systematically ignoring the fruits of its expensive youth academy, is just that. An article of faith. Stupid Hughes, for buying all these expensive players. it just doesn't add up does it?

[Alan75]

Quite a few people - could try and dig them out, if you want.

No one was strongly advocating Matt Derbyshire for first team duty (on this messageboard anyway) just before he made the breakthrough and I remember some people reporting from reserve fixtures having been unimpressed by Derbs' potential. (Too weak etc. etc.). And Mark Hughes has admitted that he had not believed Derbs to be ready at the time he blooded him due to injuries to Nonda, Jeffers and Roberts.

As someone who watches the reserves this is what I said.

Nov 7 2006, 18:52 Post #75 |

Ive seen him a number of times now and at reserve team level he does stand out. However what must be taken into account is that reserve teams are now virtually are an overspill of youth team games.

Very few clubs play first team squad players in the reserves due to first team squad rotation. For example the most experienced players Rovers have played in the reserves are Matteo, Henchoz plus Todd.

Derbyshire has an eye for goal, but he needs to build up his body strength before he's thrown into the premiership. Experienced defenders will eat him alive, which will set back his confidence no end.

The best way to blood him, is a sub, when there is no pressure on him. Throwing him in the deep end, is not the answer. A couple of bad games and how long would it be before the fans would get on his back. If anyone knows how to evelop a striker Hughes does, so I'll await his judgement on young Derbyshire.

When you've watched a few games, I'll take your posts more serious, until then dont critisise comments from people who have actually watched the players in action.

[rover6]

Hey - I'm not criticising anyone for saying that Derbyshire looked far from Prem class back in the day, in reserve footy - it was probably true.

I'm just saying that I would be wary of writing off players in the current reserve set-up who have been good but are not world beaters (eg Nolan, Taylor, De Vita, Kane, etc.) They still might make it, if they get lucky and get a chance. After all, after being used as nothing more than a time-wasting sub at Plymouth whilst on loan, few saw what was coming for Derbyshire.

BTW: Well done the ressy's beating Man U. I would hope that some of them might get some loan moves soon.