[Archived] Rovers Young Guns

[1864roverite]

Hodge brace gives Rovers a 2-1 win over a decent Everton second string

[Parsonblue]

Another good performance by the Rovers younger players tonight. Sadly, Matt had a disappointing game by his standards, although he did help set up the first goal while Keith Treacy didn't really impress on the left wing. However, Judge and Doran again looked good and young Santa Cruz looks an excellent prospect. Mark Bunn was again very impressive in goal and Zurab and Aaron strolled through the game with ease. Zurab always looks a class act when played in the centre of defence. Hodge took both of his goals well and, in fairness, Everton's goal was also a cracker.

Rumour has it that Robbie Fowler turned up late - the M6 was at a standstill again - which is why Santa Cruz started when he was originally down as a substitute. Don't know if it's true but Robbie did come on at half-time in place of Doran and Santa Cruz was switched to play wide on the right.

It was a decent game against an Everton side that included Castillo, Vaughan and Anichebe. Once again, the Rovers played some nice football and I thought that we just about deserved to win.

[DingleBaiter]

Another good performance by the Rovers younger players tonight. Sadly, Matt had a disappointing game by his standards, although he did help set up the first goal while Keith Treacy didn't really impress on the left wing. However, Judge and Doran again looked good and young Santa Cruz looks an excellent prospect. Mark Bunn was again very impressive in goal and Zurab and Aaron strolled through the game with ease. Zurab always looks a class act when played in the centre of defence. Hodge took both of his goals well and, in fairness, Everton's goal was also a cracker.

Rumour has it that Robbie Fowler turned up late - the M6 was at a standstill again - which is why Santa Cruz started when he was originally down as a substitute. Don't know if it's true but Robbie did come on at half-time in place of Doran and Santa Cruz was switched to play wide on the right.

It was a decent game against an Everton side that included Castillo, Vaughan and Anichebe. Once again, the Rovers played some nice football and I thought that we just about deserved to win.

Disappointed Treacy seems to have reverted to his form under Hughes, rather than post-Hughes. He really seemed to have grasped the mettle in pre-season and his performances for the first team, but the time he needs to show it (with the MGP issue) he's not doing IMO.

Pleased to see Zurab playing, hope he gets a chance in the first team still.

Wonder when Judge/Doran going to get their chances, especially with Emerton being out? Thought at one time maybe Ince would have fancied Judge more to fill Dunny's spot, but he's suffered with being away on internationals/injury. Doran is more of a winger than Judge, so maybe time for the challenge?

[philipl]

LT 0-8 match report

I see nobody has responded to unleaded- very very worrying if what he says is true.

[JAL]

"We`ll learn from this and get ready for the game on Saturday"..........

The coach(Bower) is like a broken record..........sack him and his Frankanstien-Like players........apart from the 2 wingers Josh Morris and Bowen...............

Take a look at Man City players season in season out and that will tell you why they are successfull and we are not....money going to waste............Sign more Black players i say.............Look at Arsenal............

2 of the star players playing for city on Saturday (Alex Nimmely + Ibrahim Abdi)were deemed not good enogh for Rovers both came on Trial before going to City........just goes to show what the coaches know.......Nimmelley has already scored 12 goals so far this season......Hes a Liberian international...........

Its just not good enough unleaded, I think the vast majority of fans they see the academy as being a massive failure despite their impressive surroundings, was there not a massive overhaul of the academy towards the end of last season or was that more propoganda bullshit from Rovers.

Value for money simply isnt there at the academy will it ever be? are the current employees, scouts, coaches etc., linked with the current manager and if so when he goes who goes with him. It all smacks of complacency from the Rovers board on the whole issue of supporting and maintaining the long term future of the club despite the smart words that come out to support it.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

LT 0-8 match report

I see nobody has responded to unleaded- very very worrying if what he says is true.

if what is true?

[Parsonblue]

"We`ll learn from this and get ready for the game on Saturday"..........

The coach(Bower) is like a broken record..........sack him and his Frankanstien-Like players........apart from the 2 wingers Josh Morris and Bowen...............

Take a look at Man City players season in season out and that will tell you why they are successfull and we are not....money going to waste............Sign more Black players i say.............Look at Arsenal............

2 of the star players playing for city on Saturday (Alex Nimmely + Ibrahim Abdi)were deemed not good enogh for Rovers both came on Trial before going to City........just goes to show what the coaches know.......Nimmelley has already scored 12 goals so far this season......Hes a Liberian international...........

The City and West Brom results were poor and talking to those who watched them - I must admit I didn't as I was watching the first team away - so were the performances. However, other games I've seen this season - including the demolition of Liverpool - were very good. Gary Bowyer seems to have adopted a more attractive style of play and there are other players apart from Bowen and Morris who have looked good. Jason Lowe, in his first year with the Under-18's has looked excellent in the centre of midfield and has already been on the bench for the Reserves. Gearoid Morrissey, another first year with the Under-18's, has also looked a decent prospect. Although I believe that Hanley had a poor game against City, he was outstanding against Liverpool.

City have an outstanding side - they put nine past Middlesbrough - and clearly there is no other team who can live with them in our division. However, I think we need to give the players, particularly the younger ones, at least a season before we write them off. Let's also remember that a number of the youngsters in the Arsenal side usually cost money and if we are struggling to finance buying players for the first team I really don't think we can afford the fees that Arsenal pay for some of their youngsters.

I agree that the Academy has not worked well but I thought the club were looking into that. I know that they published their findings with regard to the scouting and recruitment of players but I thought that they were also going to look at the coaching set-up.

[Amo]

Take a look at Man City players season in season out and that will tell you why they are successfull and we are not....money going to waste............Sign more Black players i say.............Look at Arsenal............

Positive discrimination.

I can just imagine what would happen if I said 'we need more whites in the team.'

[DingleBaiter]

Its just not good enough unleaded, I think the vast majority of fans they see the academy as being a massive failure despite their impressive surroundings, was there not a massive overhaul of the academy towards the end of last season or was that more propoganda bullshit from Rovers.

Value for money simply isnt there at the academy will it ever be? are the current employees, scouts, coaches etc., linked with the current manager and if so when he goes who goes with him. It all smacks of complacency from the Rovers board on the whole issue of supporting and maintaining the long term future of the club despite the smart words that come out to support it.

I'm wavering about responding to someone that clearly just looks for the negative in anything without considering both sides. However, I'm going to put my faith in you yet again - mainly because I can't find the correct Beattitude to quote

Criticism - sadly, as with the Ince affair, the level of criticism is often inversely proportional to the level of knowledge/sense/evidence/facts a poster has. Half the gripes on here have surfaced since the 8-0 thrashing, and the posters were strangely quiet with the two previous great results. The other proviso is that half the guff is second and third-hand information, usually along the lines from someone of an equally negative nature, i.e. only hearing what one wants to hear.

Academy review - was only phase one review, completed end of last season. Small matter of management churn and subsequent upheaval intervened. Like most things in youth football, building for the long term etc. - it can be 3 to 5 years before any progress is made.

Standard of players/style of football - IMO we've got a better class of player at U18 level than have for a while, both as a team but moreso a few individuals as have been mentioned previously. Hitchy's come on in leaps and bounds too, but depends if Daddy smuggles him away to City I guess. U16's I would actually suggest we're even stronger - they held City 1-1 (City scored a goal with 3 players offside) whilst Rovers had a seemingly legal goal from a free-kick ruled out.

THAT City side - unique, one-off, stand-out (last season as well as this). However, they've come through as expensive acquisitions (lads deemed not good enough to be in that side are presently on close to a grand a week).

Previous Academy incarnations - see previous posts, but on the whole on the sole criteria of player transition into first team, there's not been a great record since 2001. However, as any objective, sensibile, and reasonable sage would know - that's often down to a number of factors. It hasn't helped having two previous managers that hardly were aware of the Academy lads. It's too one-sided and unfair to suggest the players weren't good enough - often it's down to the manager not having the cojones.

Costs - Liverpool had a lad playing for them they paid 100,000 for. We supposedly were interested but couldn't afford him; like the seniors, we've commercial constraints too. The Academy has to operate in a way that focusses on it's strengths, and often the lure of the bigger clubs is too great.

Reserves - historically, it's not the Academy that's the problem, it's when they go out to reserves; most simply don't 'kick on'. Some go like Sergio and happily pick up their wedge. Some hover around the side but the manager often doesn't have the guts to play them for a sustained period (unlike Ince has done with MO and Treacy) and hopefully will do with Judge & Doran.

I'm reasonably confident the present Academy will come good, simply for two reasons - it HAS to, and it's finally got a more holistic view rather than the separatist ones of previous years, which after all is history - so let's look to the future?

Here endeth the sermon; naysayers are welcome to offer positive responses, if at all possible?

[bennyboyt11]

nice post dinglebaiter...

was a good read

[Mr Creosote]

I'm wavering about responding to someone that clearly just looks for the negative in anything without considering both sides. However, I'm going to put my faith in you yet again - mainly because I can't find the correct Beattitude to quote

Criticism - sadly, as with the Ince affair, the level of criticism is often inversely proportional to the level of knowledge/sense/evidence/facts a poster has. Half the gripes on here have surfaced since the 8-0 thrashing, and the posters were strangely quiet with the two previous great results. The other proviso is that half the guff is second and third-hand information, usually along the lines from someone of an equally negative nature, i.e. only hearing what one wants to hear.

Academy review - was only phase one review, completed end of last season. Small matter of management churn and subsequent upheaval intervened. Like most things in youth football, building for the long term etc. - it can be 3 to 5 years before any progress is made.

Standard of players/style of football - IMO we've got a better class of player at U18 level than have for a while, both as a team but moreso a few individuals as have been mentioned previously. Hitchy's come on in leaps and bounds too, but depends if Daddy smuggles him away to City I guess. U16's I would actually suggest we're even stronger - they held City 1-1 (City scored a goal with 3 players offside) whilst Rovers had a seemingly legal goal from a free-kick ruled out.

THAT City side - unique, one-off, stand-out (last season as well as this). However, they've come through as expensive acquisitions (lads deemed not good enough to be in that side are presently on close to a grand a week).

Previous Academy incarnations - see previous posts, but on the whole on the sole criteria of player transition into first team, there's not been a great record since 2001. However, as any objective, sensibile, and reasonable sage would know - that's often down to a number of factors. It hasn't helped having two previous managers that hardly were aware of the Academy lads. It's too one-sided and unfair to suggest the players weren't good enough - often it's down to the manager not having the cojones.

Costs - Liverpool had a lad playing for them they paid 100,000 for. We supposedly were interested but couldn't afford him; like the seniors, we've commercial constraints too. The Academy has to operate in a way that focusses on it's strengths, and often the lure of the bigger clubs is too great.

Reserves - historically, it's not the Academy that's the problem, it's when they go out to reserves; most simply don't 'kick on'. Some go like Sergio and happily pick up their wedge. Some hover around the side but the manager often doesn't have the guts to play them for a sustained period (unlike Ince has done with MO and Treacy) and hopefully will do with Judge & Doran.

I'm reasonably confident the present Academy will come good, simply for two reasons - it HAS to, and it's finally got a more holistic view rather than the separatist ones of previous years, which after all is history - so let's look to the future?

Here endeth the sermon; naysayers are welcome to offer positive responses, if at all possible?

Excellent post DB but ffs I've got that p**** on ignore!

[Blue blood]

Great to read a balanced summary on the acadamy from someone who knows all about it - cheers db.

I've said it before, and think it's a massive factor so will say so again, that reserve team football isn't the step up it used to be, since they got rid of the under 16' & 18's (or 17's and 19's, whatever it was) and just had one league at the age in between. IMO it's really watered down reserve team football with too many youths who aren't good enough playing, making the standard too low (both opposition and who players are playing with), for those who're promising prospects. As this is the step before becoming a first team squad player this is a really important stage, and could well be playing a large part in the les than fantastic returns we've seen so far from our acadamy.

[92er]

Great to read a balanced summary on the acadamy from someone who knows all about it - cheers db.

I've said it before, and think it's a massive factor so will say so again, that reserve team football isn't the step up it used to be, since they got rid of the under 16' & 18's (or 17's and 19's, whatever it was) and just had one league at the age in between. IMO it's really watered down reserve team football with too many youths who aren't good enough playing, making the standard too low (both opposition and who players are playing with), for those who're promising prospects. As this is the step before becoming a first team squad player this is a really important stage, and could well be playing a large part in the les than fantastic returns we've seen so far from our acadamy.

It seems now that the loaning out of better players to lower level clubs has almost replaced the function of the Reserve team.

I also seems to have paid off for some other clubs.

[JAL]

I'm wavering about responding to someone that clearly just looks for the negative in anything without considering both sides. However, I'm going to put my faith in you yet again - mainly because I can't find the correct Beattitude to quote

Criticism - sadly, as with the Ince affair, the level of criticism is often inversely proportional to the level of knowledge/sense/evidence/facts a poster has. Half the gripes on here have surfaced since the 8-0 thrashing, and the posters were strangely quiet with the two previous great results. The other proviso is that half the guff is second and third-hand information, usually along the lines from someone of an equally negative nature, i.e. only hearing what one wants to hear.

Academy review - was only phase one review, completed end of last season. Small matter of management churn and subsequent upheaval intervened. Like most things in youth football, building for the long term etc. - it can be 3 to 5 years before any progress is made.

Standard of players/style of football - IMO we've got a better class of player at U18 level than have for a while, both as a team but moreso a few individuals as have been mentioned previously. Hitchy's come on in leaps and bounds too, but depends if Daddy smuggles him away to City I guess. U16's I would actually suggest we're even stronger - they held City 1-1 (City scored a goal with 3 players offside) whilst Rovers had a seemingly legal goal from a free-kick ruled out.

THAT City side - unique, one-off, stand-out (last season as well as this). However, they've come through as expensive acquisitions (lads deemed not good enough to be in that side are presently on close to a grand a week).

Previous Academy incarnations - see previous posts, but on the whole on the sole criteria of player transition into first team, there's not been a great record since 2001. However, as any objective, sensibile, and reasonable sage would know - that's often down to a number of factors. It hasn't helped having two previous managers that hardly were aware of the Academy lads. It's too one-sided and unfair to suggest the players weren't good enough - often it's down to the manager not having the cojones.

Costs - Liverpool had a lad playing for them they paid 100,000 for. We supposedly were interested but couldn't afford him; like the seniors, we've commercial constraints too. The Academy has to operate in a way that focusses on it's strengths, and often the lure of the bigger clubs is too great.

Reserves - historically, it's not the Academy that's the problem, it's when they go out to reserves; most simply don't 'kick on'. Some go like Sergio and happily pick up their wedge. Some hover around the side but the manager often doesn't have the guts to play them for a sustained period (unlike Ince has done with MO and Treacy) and hopefully will do with Judge & Doran.

I'm reasonably confident the present Academy will come good, simply for two reasons - it HAS to, and it's finally got a more holistic view rather than the separatist ones of previous years, which after all is history - so let's look to the future?

Here endeth the sermon; naysayers are welcome to offer positive responses, if at all possible?

A good reposte DingleBaiter, but at the end of the day you do say, it maybe another 3-5 years to see positive things happening when its already been 7 years since the youth level looked good, with a final word on the subject saying it HAS to work. It all smacks of desperation, hope and luck rather than anything concrete that can guarantee success.

See your point on the reserves but thats when the club should be earmarking championship clubs for these young lads to spend some time with if that is they are capable of making an impact at that level.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I think what has to be considered, is that it is unusual for a youth team to produce a large number of first team players. From Rovers perspective, getting beat 8-0 isn't necessarily the end of the world - IF one of those players breaks into the first team. We have had sucessful youth teams (finalists twice - as well as winning the league) - but they have been good teams rather than producing individuals.

Having a successful youth team must help to attract more youngsters - but the reality is that many youth teams are now made up of players from abroad that teams have played significant amounts of money for. The much vaunted Arsenal youth team was largely purchased for large amounts - Rovers can't match that.

We currently have a number of players from the Acadamy in the first team squad - so things are looking up.

[philipl]

Just to add to the gloom.

Rovers u-18s lost at home 0-1 to bottom of the table Stoke City.

[AussieinUk]

Again, good post by DB and thank you for your views on the Academy and the reserves.

[rover6]

Frankie Fielding won his first England U21 cap today. Congrats to him.

It makes me wonder why we signed Mark Bunn when we have Fielding and Bussman as such promising young keeping prospects.

[Parsonblue]

Frankie Fielding won his first England U21 cap today. Congrats to him.

It makes me wonder why we signed Mark Bunn when we have Fielding and Bussman as such promising young keeping prospects.

If you had seen Bunn play for the Reserves you wouldn't be wondering any longer. I think Bunn is the best goalkeeping prospect that this club has had for many years. Easily in a different class to Fielding and Bussman and, I suspect, will quickly become established as the number two 'keeper at the club. Indeed, I would expect him to be pushing Robinson next season for the top spot.

[JAL]

If you had seen Bunn play for the Reserves you wouldn't be wondering any longer. I think Bunn is the best goalkeeping prospect that this club has had for many years. Easily in a different class to Fielding and Bussman and, I suspect, will quickly become established as the number two 'keeper at the club. Indeed, I would expect him to be pushing Robinson next season for the top spot.

Is he in a different class to Brown Parsonblue.

[Parsonblue]

Is he in a different class to Brown Parsonblue.

From what I have seen of him so far he looks a better 'keeper than Jason Brown. He is very confident in dealing with crosses and commands his area. I think he has the potential to be a very good goalkeeper. It will be interesting to see how his career develops at Ewood. I have felt sorry for Brown because his career has come to a full stop with the Rovers at a time when he was just breaking into international football with Wales. Brad was not only exceptionally consistent but he was also injury free and so Brown has had no opportunity to develop.

[Wild Irish Rover]

Just to add to the gloom.

Rovers u-18s lost at home 0-1 to bottom of the table Stoke City.

I was at this game and to be honest, I was very disappointed with the standard of play and the lack of quality within the Rovers Academy side. For all their possession and ability to move the ball around, there was precious little attacking flair or creative play. The Stoke keeper constantly dropped the ball from crosses but was not pressurised or punished by Rovers players. In fact I can't remember a single save that he had to make, with Rovers reduced to long range shots which were generally off target.

The noises coming out of the Rovers bench (messrs Downes and Bowyer) were agricultural at best and didn't elicit any real confidence that they knew a) what their game plan was or that they felt anything more than underwhelmed by the lack of talent in front of them.

Worrying times at many levels at t'Rovers

[rover6]

If you had seen Bunn play for the Reserves you wouldn't be wondering any longer. I think Bunn is the best goalkeeping prospect that this club has had for many years. Easily in a different class to Fielding and Bussman and, I suspect, will quickly become established as the number two 'keeper at the club. Indeed, I would expect him to be pushing Robinson next season for the top spot.

Well, that's high praise. IF Bunn is that good, then it is a jolly good thing Ince signed him. Although, with Robinson at the helm, he's going to have to wait long for his chance.

[Parsonblue]

I was at this game and to be honest, I was very disappointed with the standard of play and the lack of quality within the Rovers Academy side. For all their possession and ability to move the ball around, there was precious little attacking flair or creative play. The Stoke keeper constantly dropped the ball from crosses but was not pressurised or punished by Rovers players. In fact I can't remember a single save that he had to make, with Rovers reduced to long range shots which were generally off target.

Totally agree with your assessment of the game. It was a very poor performance completely devoid of any quality. Early season we played some good football but we now seem to have reverted to the more basic style that we have adopted in recent seasons. I was in a state of utter depression on Saturday after watching the Academy in the morning and the first team in the afternoon. It can only get better!

[RibbleValleyRover]

Reserves got beat 4-0 against Sunderland

http://www.rovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Res...1459952,00.html

Sounds like Julio had a few chances to score:

"Santa Cruz let fly with a stunning 35 yard volley that flew narrowly over the bar, it would have been some goal had it found the back of the net. On 23 minutes the Paraguayan youngster went close once more, heading an Ajdarevic cross just wide."