[Archived] Rovers Young Guns

[den]

Nolan and Treacy mentioned.

Sounds like Treacy was impressive.

[Blueboy Downunder]

den, i really hope these kids come through and make a good impact on this club.

[Scotty]

Nolan goes on a months loan to Hartlepool

[rover6]

Just hope that he can get into the Hartlepool team and get some games. His spell at Stockport was pretty pointless because he was, it would seem from my biased and not completely au fait position, made the scapegoat after a heavy defeat on his debut.

[Scotty]

Our youth team got beat 1-0 away at Leicester in the FA Youth Cup tonight. For the first time I'm starting to wonder whether the Academy's worth while.

Here's a match report.

[sussexrover]

I haven't seen the game, but I listened to a really interesting piece by somebody like Craig Johnston the other week (not certain it was him) and he was explaining that part of the problem with youth football in this country was that we were too focused on winning each game. Whilst obviously we want players to win, this can actually have a negative impact on development. Teams tend to play big, athletic players as they dont want to lose, but this is at the expense of some of the smaller, more skillful players who are ignored and then don't come through. He used the analogy of a tennis player who had a terrible backhand - at youth level he may well be able to comfortably beat everybody on the strength of his forehand, however when it comes to stepping up a higher level the weaknesses in the backhand will be ruthlessly exposed. Instead, if we encourage this player to specifically work on their backhand they may well lose a few games at youth level but this will stand them in better stead and ensure they are a more complete player in the long term.

Perhaps we should be less worried about our youth team winning every game and more interested in encouraging the players who could, with a bit of luck and the right nurturing, make an impact for BRFC, rather than those who might do well at youth level but are only ever going to end up being a substitute for a side in League 2.

[waggy]

absolutley gutted that the youth team lost,like scotty i think the money we pour into the academy has to be questioned,or at least a re-think off its structure.it is not producing the players,we should be producing at least one per season

[den]

absolutley gutted that the youth team lost,like scotty i think the money we pour into the academy has to be questioned,or at least a re-think off its structure.it is not producing the players,we should be producing at least one per season

I've been questioning it for a long time Waggy. The academy worked well originally because we were one of the first in there - we could attract the better lads. Now, the best lads go to the top clubs, as it always used to be.

As for the original idea that academies could nurture lads 0f 8 yrs old into top class players, that was always flawed IMO. It's far too young an age to have any meaningful pointer as to how good they can be.

The only thing an academy does, is improve the players who are there, but it doesn't mean they will reach the desired standard.

[waggy]

i went to watch junior play footie for his school yesterday,quite a few off his teammates are academy cast-offs.most because they are not growing as fast as the rest!!!it was a lancashire cup match and the team they were playing came from blackpool,juniors team won 5-0 a flattering scoreline,but they were the only team playing football. the other side were big and strong and dominated play but this time skill came out on top. i would say that if it had not been a nice crisp day,a decent flat pitch the result could well have been different,there manager is a rugby player who tells them to pass all the time,the other teams manager was going mad when a player on there side showed skill,and told him to hump it upfield.after i was talking to a parent off the blackpool team and 3 off there players were at school of excellences

[DanLad]

When I was a lad it was the lads that matured quicker and were bigger that made these schools of excellence etc.

When the other lads caught up with them height and weight wise the previous 'star' players turned out to be very average indeed.

[waggy]

maybe that is were junior football is going wrong

[Eddie]

The academy has to do one of two things: either produce players who make it into our first team, or produce players who we then sell on for enough to at least cover the costs of running it.

Now I don't have any real figures for this, but I would say that in my time really following rovers it has managed this. The sales of Duff and Dunn have been the main reason behind this, but there have been a few others in there and I'd say they cover the 2.5 million figure that is usually thrown around as the annual cost.

[rover6]

Gallagher - finally pulled the finger out and put in a MoM for Preston in their 3-2 win over Burnley.

[92er]

I'm not sure this is quite the right place for this posting but I didn't want to start a new one.

What I heard on Tuesday night from someone who goes to watch home Reserve games and Youth ones as well:

Kane is the best player in the Reserves but he is not going to be Premiership standard.

Treacy won't make it because of his attitude-he allegedley kicks up if he doesn't get his own way. He only wants to play left wing, so when he was played right wing at City away, he sulked till he was taken off.

Apparently Academy players have to live in- a rule that also applied to him. Until he said he was going back to Ireland if he didn't get his own way. So the club caved in.

According to my source, there is also nothing coming through from the Academy.

Part of the overall problem is the smallness of the Reserve leagues, which at the behest of the big clubs are not too big, but some of the young players are only getting 4 or 5 matches unless the club arranges friendlies.

What I know is about a lad who at 16 the Club were very enthusiastic about. However, it was also clear he was unlikey to ever be Premiership quality and my distinct impression was I would be very surprised if he ever got a professional contract.

I saw him play in the final against Coventry a couple of years ago that the Youth team won after coming

from behind. He still seemed to have an attitude problem and didn't contribute a great deal.

This year Gary Stopforth was released and is playing for..................Clitheroe.

It seems to me to be very unimpressive if a player kept on by the club for 4 years ends up in the non-league and I suggest something is seriously up with the system.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Sometimes players will have the potential to be great and are kept on because some players develop later than others. This could be the case regarding Stopforth who just never matured into what they would have hoped. Some players need to drop a division before coming back a better player and others can develop to early and fizzle out before their career has even begun.

I do believe that a couple of years ago we won the FA Academy League and in the past decade we've had players come through our academy and reserve teams who went on to play in the Premier League such as Damien Duff, David Dunn, Damien Johnson, Paul Gallagher, Matt Derbyshire, Martin Taylor, Sergio Peter, Jonathon Douglas.

This season we've got young Martin Olsson, Eddie Nolan, Keith Tracey, Andy Taylor, Tony Kane and Gunnar Nielsen who have all been given squad numbers so there is a lot of potential there and it's up to the management team and most importantly the players to work their socks off to be prepared for that important call up for a first team game.

Personally I feel we've got a bright future with some great facilities to bring through some top youngsters in years to come.

[rover6]

This year Gary Stopforth was released and is playing for..................Clitheroe.

It seems to me to be very unimpressive if a player kept on by the club for 4 years ends up in the non-league and I suggest something is seriously up with the system.

That is part of the problem. Players are retained in the reserves despite it being evident that they will never be good enough. Keith Barker, Alan Morgan, Ryan Woods and Stopforth were all at the club for a few years - it makes little sense.

The turnover should be faster. Give people a fair chance in the reserves but when it becomes obvious that they are not good enough, move them on.

[tcj_jones]

Maybe we should scrap our entire youth system and just spend the money poaching quality youngsters from other clubs? We haven't developed any half decent players since Duff and Dunn however many years ago that was. The whole academy seems a waste of time and money.

[waggy]

i second them sentiments,we should either tranform the academy from top to bottom or disbanden it,it is not worthwhile and the monies saved can go in the transfre kitty

[LeftWinger]

The academy isn't producing - but we have to keep some sort of youth system.

Nothing better than seeing a home grown talent come through and play his heart out for the club.

[rebelmswar]

The academy isn't producing - but we have to keep some sort of youth system.

Nothing better than seeing a home grown talent come through and play his heart out for the club.

I agree with you on this, the idea of scraping a youth system due to a few duds would be silly in the extreme. We at the present time are not financially well off enough to just poach players from other teams nor in reality to just plain out buy everyone we will ever need. At the same time our team’s moral and belief in themselves is so low at this time that throwing our youngsters into matches would be suicidal.

[den]

Posted this on the Nicko thread:

The top clubs always got the best youngsters. They still do. The academies haven't changed that.

That's the key, - getting the best youngsters. When we first started our academy, we were one of the first clubs in there, hence Dalglish could persuade lads like Duff down to Ewood. The older they are when they are picked up, the easier it is to judge them. The academy system doesn't make any difference. Well it does, it simply makes players better than they otherwise would have been. It doesn't make the less gifted youngsters good enough.

[Paul]

This year Gary Stopforth was released and is playing for..................Clitheroe.

It seems to me to be very unimpressive if a player kept on by the club for 4 years ends up in the non-league and I suggest something is seriously up with the system.

I know virtually nothing of our reserves or academy players but the comment about non-league caught my attention. Listening to the Chasetown-Cardiff game on Saturday the BBC commentators remarked about the age and quality of the Chasetown team. Apparently several are ex academy players from various clubs. The commentators went on to remark that a lot of these players still have potential league (not necessarily PL) careers ahead of them as the gap between non-league and league is narrowing - mainly because of the number of academy players released by PL clubs.

Don't know if this is true but thought it an interesting observation.

[LeChuck]

The top clubs always got the best youngsters. They still do. The academies haven't changed that.

That's the key, - getting the best youngsters. When we first started our academy, we were one of the first clubs in there, hence Dalglish could persuade lads like Duff down to Ewood. The older they are when they are picked up, the easier it is to judge them. The academy system doesn't make any difference. Well it does, it simply makes players better than they otherwise would have been. It doesn't make the less gifted youngsters good enough.

Are you implying we aren't a big enough club to get good young players in, or that our scouting system of youngsters is flawed there Den?

[den]

Are you implying we aren't a big enough club to get good young players in, or that our scouting system of youngsters is flawed there Den?

I think we're back to the position where the best young lads go to the top clubs. The top clubs don't really use the academies as they were planned to do either. Obviously they short cut the system by bringing in expensive foreign lads, and they pinch/buy the best youngsters from other clubs academies, as well as attracting the best English youngsters - leaving rovers fighting for the scraps.

Out of interest, I would like to know how many, or should I say what percentage, of young players making the grade at Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea were actually brought through from a young age. I would guess not many.

[rebelmswar]

I think we're back to the position where the best young lads go to the top clubs. The top clubs don't really use the academies as they were planned to do either. Obviously they short cut the system by bringing in expensive foreign lads, and they pinch/buy the best youngsters from other clubs academies, as well as attracting the best English youngsters - leaving rovers fighting for the scraps.

So you are saying that most players want to go to the bigger clubs because of the work experience? Like when you graduate you would rather say I got my diploma from Oxford rather than University of Abertay Dundee? I see this as the problem as well most young players when looking for another club if they fail to break through would rather say that they came through at Arse rather than Blackburn.