[Archived] Rovers Young Guns

[LeChuck]

Out of interest, I would like to know how many, or should I say what percentage, of young players making the grade at Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea were actually brought through from a young age. I would guess not many.

From what I can gather, the vast majority of City's youngsters are local lads from the Manchester area.

I guess the one big exception at the moment would be Middlesbrough. They've produced a number of Premiership quality players (Downing, Cattermole, Wheater, Johnson, Taylor), and a few like Morrisson who've dropped down a level but brought in a few million.

[den]

From what I can gather, the vast majority of City's youngsters are local lads from the Manchester area.

You would have to check that out.

i.e, Micah Richards is from Leeds and was at Oldham's academy, being sold on to Man City. Not sure if there wasn't a poaching charge somewhere along the line.

[LeChuck]

If the information I've read is correct, then Johnson, Onuoha, Miller and Logan were all born in the Manchester area, which isn't bad. I had no idea Richards came from Oldham, apparently they have a 20% sell-on fee clause...they could be in for a massive windfall one day from that.

It's maybe not the most ethical of approaches, but perhaps would should be keeping a close eye on our neighbours' academies to see if we can pinch any players whilst they are young. There are a lot of clubs surrounding Rovers so we should be able to find the odd one...someone like Lafferty from Burnley springs to mind.

[Neil Weaver]

Richards is from Chapeltown in Leeds. Chapeltown has a reputation a bit like Brixton or Toxteth. Maybe that's where our scouting network should extend to..............

BTW, was quite impressed by Onuoha in the game at CoMS. Remember him playing against us a few times before and always thought of him as another Zat Knight (hmmm, that could be rhyming slang) but thought he's much improved of late.

[AggyBlue]

I know virtually nothing of our reserves or academy players but the comment about non-league caught my attention. Listening to the Chasetown-Cardiff game on Saturday the BBC commentators remarked about the age and quality of the Chasetown team. Apparently several are ex academy players from various clubs. The commentators went on to remark that a lot of these players still have potential league (not necessarily PL) careers ahead of them as the gap between non-league and league is narrowing - mainly because of the number of academy players released by PL clubs.

Most Academy cast off's haven't physically/mentally matured at the time they are released.

Isn't Glen Hoddle in the process of setting up his own Academy in Spain. He's going to take on the best of the Premier League Academy cast off's and let them fully mature under the guidance of his own coaching staff.

I'm not sure exactly what he plans to do with them then. Maybe he plans on selling them back to clubs.

[DanLad]

Most Academy cast off's haven't physically/mentally matured at the time they are released.

Isn't Glen Hoddle in the process of setting up his own Academy in Spain. He's going to take on the best of the Premier League Academy cast off's and let them fully mature under the guidance of his own coaching staff.

I'm not sure exactly what he plans to do with them then. Maybe he plans on selling them back to clubs.

That should send a shudder down anyone's spine...maybe he's going to sacrifice them?

[waggy]

Posted this on the Nicko thread:

The top clubs always got the best youngsters. They still do. The academies haven't changed that.

That's the key, - getting the best youngsters. When we first started our academy, we were one of the first clubs in there, hence Dalglish could persuade lads like Duff down to Ewood. The older they are when they are picked up, the easier it is to judge them. The academy system doesn't make any difference. Well it does, it simply makes players better than they otherwise would have been. It doesn't make the less gifted youngsters good enough.

do not agree den,how do crewe keep churning out players,and every now and again come up with a diamond

[den]

do not agree den,how do crewe keep churning out players,and every now and again come up with a diamond

You don't agree with what?

Crewe do great things with youngsters, no doubt. A lot of Crewe's academy players went to Crewe after being released by the big Manchester/Liverpool clubs. They weren't all developed from 8 yrs of age. I don't know if that's still how they work Waggy.

Rovers keep churning out youngsters, but can't find many diamonds. They're all going to the top clubs, just as it used to be. What other reason could there be, for the lack of academy players in our first team set up? Coaching? Nah, I don't think so.

[Exiled in Toronto]

What other reason could there be, for the lack of academy players in our first team set up? Coaching? Nah, I don't think so.

Errr...scouting??

[den]

Errr...scouting??

Meaning all the top lads would come down to Ewood rather than Liverpool/Man u/Man City, - if only we had spotted them? Doubt it.

The idea that lads can be picked up at 8yrs of age and made into something they can never be, is flawed. It's wrong. It can't be done. It's dead. It's snuffed it. It's deceased.

[waggy]

WHY DO WE NOT FOLLOW CREWE'S EXAMPLE

[philipl]

WHY DO WE NOT FOLLOW CREWE'S EXAMPLE

I think its a bit too late for building railway junctions.

[krislu]

What about Middlesbrough, they seem to have a good amount of young players coming through their system. Rovers should have some kind of long term strategi. We most likely will never be able to go out and splash £8-10m on a single player, so logic says we should try putting some real thought into our youth academy.

If our long term vision is that our manager needs to find good players for very little money and work with that, then that kind of thinking will in my opinion eventually make us a Championship outfit, or even worse...

[Exiled in Toronto]

Meaning all the top lads would come down to Ewood rather than Liverpool/Man u/Man City, - if only we had spotted them? Doubt it.

The idea that lads can be picked up at 8yrs of age and made into something they can never be, is flawed. It's wrong. It can't be done. It's dead. It's snuffed it. It's deceased.

So the only good players anywhere come from the top 4 clubs???

City, who were in the third division only a short while ago, seem to have a much better production line than us, the 2001 Worthy Cup winners. Boro, Villa, West Ham keep finding gems, we don't.

And most crucially, our long term survival at this level depends on us matching our peer clubs, not the top 4. Give up on that and your saying we'll be back where we started pretty sharpish.

[BRFC1995]

Sod a youth team just do what the big teams do steal them off other teams when they are 15-16, not really any come through the ranks at these mid to lower half lge clubs that are any better than derbyshire in truth! i don't want 11 homegrown players for the sake of it, be a $hit team! Albongo is the only decent one at villa, they are selling the others, ridgewell was a shocker, and barrys been around for 10 yrs so us having Dunn would cancel that one out! Fewer Mart Taylors the better! Let championship clubs put the effort in like palace then screw them over. As long as there are'nt to many retards like lawrie sanchez paying silly millions to championship clubs they are there to sell!

[LeChuck]

Albongo is the only decent one at villa

Not strictly true. A few clubs, led by Sheffield Utd, are said to be preparing £4 million bids for Gary Cahill. Graig Gardner's a useful player as well, I seem to remember him going on a scoring streak not long ago. Luke Moore looks a good talent but is struggling to get a look in due to the form of Carew and Agbonlahor, but like Cahill he'd fetch a decent fee should he leave.

I don't think anyone is realistically expecting us to bring through fantastic young players, so I don't see what the top four has to do with it. Of course any youngster good enough to play for the top four will be out of or reach...but there's no reason we shouldn't be finding the young players not good enough for the top teams, but still good enough for Premiership football.

Even if they just supplement the first team squad, it would be a start. It's ridiculous that we have to look towards journymen such as Henchoz and now Faye to fill the lower places in the squad, we should easily be able to bring through youngsters to fill these roles. At the moment we're barely bringing through Championship quality, which means why aren't even getting transfer fees from the players not deemed good enough.

[den]

So the only good players anywhere come from the top 4 clubs???

City, who were in the third division only a short while ago, seem to have a much better production line than us, the 2001 Worthy Cup winners. Boro, Villa, West Ham keep finding gems, we don't.

And most crucially, our long term survival at this level depends on us matching our peer clubs, not the top 4. Give up on that and your saying we'll be back where we started pretty sharpish.

Where did I say top four?

You're missing the point I'm trying [poorly] to make. Before the academies were introduced at a cost of c£25/£30m per decade, we had a youth system. Under that system, the top clubs attracted the best youngsters [in general. - Of course all clubs found the odd nuggett]. When I say the top clubs, I include Man City, Boro, Newcastle, Villa, West Ham, - as well as Utd, Liverpool etc, because, for whatever reason, they produced quality youngsters way before the academies were introduced.

The academy's were introduced around what - 10 yrs ago? The idea being that clubs could pick up kids from the age of 8yrs old and nurture them into better players. The kids must be the best around at whatever age, to even stand a chance.

Rovers were one of the first academies up and running. Because of the facilities offered by rovers at that time, we could attract some of the top youngsters around. We have come full circle though. All the top clubs can now offer the same facilities, if not better. Hence, We're left paying the £25/30m per decade, to run the same academy, but can't attract the best lads. If we can't attract the best youngsters we're simply going to provide the lower leagues with freebies. Full circle, but more expensive.

The simple fact is that the old youth system produced just as many quality players per club, as the expensive academy system does.

[rebelmswar]

To solve all this bother why don't we outsource all of our academies to Eastern European countries and African countries, start dragging all the impressive youngsters through our affiliated club to get an EU passport. Problem solved, much cheaper too and you can undercut the competition.

[American]

To solve all this bother why don't we outsource all of our academies to Eastern European countries and African countries, start dragging all the impressive youngsters through our affiliated club to get an EU passport. Problem solved, much cheaper too and you can undercut the competition.

That's what baseball teams do here. Any successful team has academies in Venezuela, the Dominican Republic and other Latin American countries. Usually not very costly to run and can pay tremendous dividends.

[LeChuck]

Someone who we don't mention as a 'success' of the academy is Jonathan Walters.

He's been linked with £2 million moves to Wigan and Newcastle this window after his superb form for Ipswich. Was he one we cast aside too easily without being given a chance in the first team? I know it took him a while in the lower divisions to find form worthy of a chance in the Premiership, but surely that's what the loan system is for...and he was sent away without being sent out on loan first.

Even if he doesn't have the ability for our first team, we've certainly lost out on getting a decent fee for him by getting rid of him so easily and not letting him build a reputation in the lower leagues first.

[Silencio]

Someone who we don't mention as a 'success' of the academy is Jonathan Walters.

He's been linked with £2 million moves to Wigan and Newcastle this window after his superb form for Ipswich. Was he one we cast aside too easily without being given a chance in the first team? I know it took him a while in the lower divisions to find form worthy of a chance in the Premiership, but surely that's what the loan system is for...and he was sent away without being sent out on loan first.

Even if he doesn't have the ability for our first team, we've certainly lost out on getting a decent fee for him by getting rid of him so easily and not letting him build a reputation in the lower leagues first.

To be fair, we had to let him go because he was (allegedly) a thieving little @#/?...

[mattjansen]

Someone who we don't mention as a 'success' of the academy is Jonathan Walters.

He's been linked with £2 million moves to Wigan and Newcastle this window after his superb form for Ipswich. Was he one we cast aside too easily without being given a chance in the first team? I know it took him a while in the lower divisions to find form worthy of a chance in the Premiership, but surely that's what the loan system is for...and he was sent away without being sent out on loan first.

Even if he doesn't have the ability for our first team, we've certainly lost out on getting a decent fee for him by getting rid of him so easily and not letting him build a reputation in the lower leagues first.

I seem to remember some theft issue with Walters that made Rovers release him, i could be wrong but im pretty sure it was something along that line.

[Alan75]

I seem to remember some theft issue with Walters that made Rovers release him, i could be wrong but im pretty sure it was something along that line.

youth career at Blackburn ended abruptly amid theft accusations

[den]

I think we had better go no further with the allegations.

[waggy]

To solve all this bother why don't we outsource all of our academies to Eastern European countries and African countries, start dragging all the impressive youngsters through our affiliated club to get an EU passport. Problem solved, much cheaper too and you can undercut the competition.

thats a brilliant idea,ajax have one in south africa