[Archived] Rovers Young Guns

[JAL]

Matt Derbyshire is reasonable-to-good. Nothing more. Is he not a useful member of the first teams squad?

Aaron Mokoena is tripe-to-reasonable - some would say he was a useful member of the squad.

To be a first team regular, generally, you have to be better but to be a squad player...?

Thats what i'm trying to say the standard has to better than this if Rovers are to move forward, i know its a very demanding statement and possibly out of reach for Rovers but reasonable-to-good just isnt good enough, is it for some of us, maybe, but to retain and grow our support base for the next few years the standard has to raise again. We have stalled this season.

With the eventual loss of Tugay and Macarthy and the departure of Savage, Hughes has a big challenge on his hands that could make or break him as always though looking forward to the Rovers soap in these coming months.

[den]

Also rover6, you constantly compare all the youngsters with Mokoena. Your argument is that if he's good enough, so are the lads. Well not many think that Mokoena is good enough and if we used the same gauge as yourself anyone would do.

[AggyBlue]

Hughes is a jerk.

He's not the only one

[Paul Mellelieu]

He's not the only one

You're right. I'm putting together a dossier detailing the crimes of the Board, the team and the fans, and sending it to Gordon Brown.

[rover6]

Also rover6, you constantly compare all the youngsters with Mokoena. Your argument is that if he's good enough, so are the lads. Well not many think that Mokoena is good enough and if we used the same gauge as yourself anyone would do.

I'm comparing Hughes patience with Mokoena to the lack of patience directed to other players. I know Mokoena is a rubbish player and should not be anywhere near our team.

However, Hughes gave Mokoena playing time, as starter and sub, to reach his potential (which is still about as impressive as an owl dropping). Now, I'm pretty sure reserve goers would agree that a guy like Eddie Nolan has greater technical ability than Mokoena. If Hughes gave Nolan the support and patience that he has given to Mokoena, we would, imo, have a decent squad player on our hands, possibly more. It's hypothetical but based on the logic that young players need games to overcome initial insecurities about playing with the big boys.

[den]

I'm comparing Hughes patience with Mokoena to the lack of patience directed to other players. I know Mokoena is a rubbish player and should not be anywhere near our team.

However, Hughes gave Mokoena playing time, as starter and sub, to reach his potential (which is still about as impressive as an owl dropping). Now, I'm pretty sure reserve goers would agree that a guy like Eddie Nolan has greater technical ability than Mokoena. If Hughes gave Nolan the support and patience that he has given to Mokoena, we would, imo, have a decent squad player on our hands, possibly more. It's hypothetical but based on the logic that young players need games to overcome initial insecurities about playing with the big boys.

You keep coming with these statements. How do you know - simple answer please?

[CAPT KAYOS]

You keep coming with these statements. How do you know - simple answer please?

On last nights evidence Den - I would say Nolan certainly does - but then again that is at full back ( both sides) and not midfield.

Anyway, as I have mentioned I went to the reserve game last night which is the first time in ages ( and I mean ages) so bear with me in terms of players names and remember its only my opinion - already made one major faux pas with Rigters (mentioned in the Nicko thread) he wasn't playing- although he was named on the player sheet I feel a trip back to specsavers is on the cards (I still don't have a clue what he looks like)

I must admit I am not at all wised up to who's who in the reserves or the youngsters coming through so as mentioned I may have got some more players confused so please contradict me if anybody else can confirm but my opinion is only on my first viewing for most.

I enjoyed the game - and although there wan't much in terms of goal line incidents there was some good football played by both sides with just the final ball being the let down for both teams. In addition I thought the officials where excellent, with the ref calling IMO nearly everything correctly and the linesman actualy being up with play - this was probably helped by the fact that the players actually got on with game for the majority of it without much complaint.

Now back to the players

Nelsen - as we all know was back - looked ok without being great - came out early in the second half to warm and stretch a bit more sustituted after apprx 1/4 into the 2nd half - don't know whether it was precuationary or if he was feeling his injury.

NIELSEN - looks very confident - steady hands and composed - we may have a good one here.

NOLAN - imo our best player - previous 1st team experience may have helped - played both full back positions - deserves another chance in the first team.

KANE - nothing exceptional doesn't look good enough to be Premier league quality though.

FLYNN - Strong and another composed player - looks to have the potential

MARROW - Skillful and exhuberant - overplayed the ball alot of the time (scored but I missed it) - potential?

JUDGE - very industrious and his passing and delivery from crosses is very good especially the corners - creates chances - another that looks like he might have something to offer.

O'KEEFE - drifted out of the game towards the end but again looked decent to me.

MARSHALL (RIGTERS B ) -scored and missed a sitter but looks far from being good enough to me - fast but that's about it, fell over the ball alot - may need time?

CLARKE - Another who has speed -looked the better of the two up front - Drifted out of the game towards the end.

TREACY - Didn't do anything of worthy note IMO - substitued at half time.

OLSSON - came on in the second half fast and appears to have the skill - looks good enough to try in the first team ( asa winger) considering the form of MGP.

WINNARD - came on for Nelsen - also looks very composed - made an excellent late challenge when it looked like Wigan might score.

So there you go- no bias or prior prejudice just first impressions for the majority.

[modes98]

TREACY - Didn't do anything of worthy note IMO - substitued at half time.

He has been out for a while though and needs to get back into the swing of things.

[den]

Thanks Capt. Reports like yours are very helpful. I haven't seen much of the reserves for a couple of seasons now [but always watch the youth team in the youth cup games].

Over the seasons, one things for sure, - trying to judge who's going to make the grade is darned near impossible. There are so many players that I thought were going to make it, that got absolutely nowhere. On the other hand, some of the players I didn't rate, did make the first team.

What we as supporters don't know - and this is where the coaches earn their money, - is whether a player has got the fire in his belly to make it. A youngster can have all the ability in the world, but without that fire and determination, will never make a top Pro.

[RevidgeBlue]

Also rover6, you constantly compare all the youngsters with Mokoena. Your argument is that if he's good enough, so are the lads. Well not many think that Mokoena is good enough and if we used the same gauge as yourself anyone would do.

Despite no doubt impressive wages, in terms of ability Mokoena is by no means top drawer and is at best a squad filler.

The argument Den surely is that we need to be filling a lot more squad places from within from the Academy at a fraction of the cost in terms of transfer fees, signing on fees and wages.

[CAPT KAYOS]

He has been out for a while though and needs to get back into the swing of things.

Thanks Modes - could explain it

Den -there was certainly alot of determination on our part and against what you can consider a more experienced line up for Wigan - not seen much of him before but Ryan Taylor looks a decent player to back up reports on him

[den]

Despite no doubt impressive wages, in terms of ability Mokoena is by no means top drawer and is at best a squad filler.

The argument Den surely is that we need to be filling a lot more squad places from within from the Academy at a fraction of the cost in terms of transfer fees, signing on fees and wages.

I agree with both of those points Rev.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I agree with both of those points Rev.

So do I - and from what I saw last night even on first impressions - there are a couple that should be given a chance

[Lee]

Thanks Modes - could explain it

Den -there was certainly alot of determination on our part and against what you can consider a more experienced line up for Wigan - not seen much of him before but Ryan Taylor looks a decent player to back up reports on him

It was the same Taylor that got Emerton sent off at the JJB

[CAPT KAYOS]

It was the same Taylor that got Emerton sent off at the JJB

Got ?

From my lagered up memory it was more of a silly Bert getting himself sent off.

[joey_big_nose]

Despite no doubt impressive wages, in terms of ability Mokoena is by no means top drawer and is at best a squad filler.

The argument Den surely is that we need to be filling a lot more squad places from within from the Academy at a fraction of the cost in terms of transfer fees, signing on fees and wages.

THe thing about that is Mokoena cost so little (300k?) that there is an argument that he would actually be cheaper than someone developed through the Academy once all the academy costs are added up... Im not sure his wages would be large either. I would imagine his wages would be very similar to Derbyshire.

So there is a legitimate question of whether finding and signing Sambas, Mokoenas, Nelsens, Pedersens and Bentleys actually is a better path for the club?

I wonder how much Paul Gallagher has cost for very few first team appearences?

[Paul Mellelieu]

THe thing about that is Mokoena cost so little (300k?) that there is an argument that he would actually be cheaper than someone developed through the Academy once all the academy costs are added up... Im not sure his wages would be large either. I would imagine his wages would be very similar to Derbyshire.

So there is a legitimate question of whether finding and signing Sambas, Mokoenas, Nelsens, Pedersens and Bentleys actually is a better path for the club?

I wonder how much Paul Gallagher has cost for very few first team appearences?

Well put. Premiership clubs are able to bring in the footballing equivalent of the Polish builder.

[American]

I agree with both of those points Rev.

I guess Rev is the only one you understand, then, because you have slated people for having the same opinion. (I will admit, Rev summed up all the other arguments perfectly).

I think it does come down to choice. Do you put the money into the academy, or do you take that money and put it into better scouting, hoping to find squad players in lesser footballing nations, or players that other clubs just didn't value/need as much as you do.

I've seen it work in other sports, particularly baseball, where players don't impress scouts because they don't match well against a stopwatch, or other "measurements', they only know how to play and how to win.

[den]

I guess Rev is the only one you understand, then, because you have slated people for having the same opinion. (I will admit, Rev summed up all the other arguments perfectly).

I'm baffled as to how you come to that conclusion American.

[philipl]

The wretched luck with injuries to the most promising youngsters continues. Macky is out for the rest of the season at Cercle.

[philipl]

Young kiwi on his way to Brockhall

[rover6]

Holy Moly.

Rovers are giving this Kiwi youngster a 4 year all-expenses-paid scholarship (including living, education expenses, weekly spending money and flights for him to go to NZ or his family to come here - for those who can't be bothered to read phil's link). Nice if you can get it.

How much money does the academy spend?! Such money may appear a drop in the sponsorship ocean but it must mount up over the years. One of the reasons foreign guys are attracted to Rovers is because they are given first-class education here, including a tutor to learn a new language.

It's unbelievable that with the current failure of the academy that we continue to splash this cash with no self-analysis or revision. Will this Kiwi be sitting on Gretna's bench, like Rostyn Griffiths, in 4 years time? Or will he be playing for Ashton United, like our goalie Zac Jones?

[LeftWinger]

It's unbelievable that with the current failure of the academy that we continue to splash this cash with no self-analysis or revision. Will this Kiwi be sitting on Gretna's bench, like Rostyn Griffiths, in 4 years time? Or will he be playing for Ashton United, like our goalie Zac Jones?

..or maybe the likes of Rostyn Griffiths and Zac Jones just prove we can't find the talent in this country - hence being forced to look overseas.

[Hughesy]

The funniest quote inthat article has to be "the players given free Blackburn merchandise".

[brian_gallagher85]

Will this Kiwi be sitting on Gretna's bench, like Rostyn Griffiths, in 4 years time?

Can't see anyone sitting on their bench in four years time