[Archived] Poor Discipline

[joey_big_nose]

I agree with you on the bad discipline when already on a yellow. I just have to remind myself that we do not have a team of thugs though, the refs decisions against us are shocking to say the least.

Cant Tony Kane play right back?

I guess Reid will be palying right back next game...

[rebelmswar]

I guess Reid will be palying right back next game...

Sometimes I wish our youth players could get some faith but I am not a manager am I? I would like to see Kane or Olsen getting a run out.

[John]

Would have thought Zurab will be right back.

[rebelmswar]

Would have thought Zurab will be right back.

You are most likely right there on thinking about it. Do you think he is up to it against The Arse? He hasn't had much experience so war this season.

[John]

I rate Zurab but he needs to play regularly to develop into a very good centre back. I think he is fairly average when he plays right back, but should do a solid enough job.

I doubt he will make as many errors as Emerton has done (when playing right back) over the last year or so.

[thenodrog]

I rate Zurab but he needs to play regularly to develop into a very good centre back. I think he is fairly average when he plays right back, but should do a solid enough job.

I doubt he will make as many errors as Emerton has done (when playing right back) over the last year or so.

Probably but on the other side of the coin he hardly gets past the half way line either.

[John]

Probably but on the other side of the coin he hardly gets past the half way line either.

Agree. But I like defenders to be good at the job of defending first, then if they can make a decent contribution (in an attacking sense), then all the better.

[herbergeehh]

Would prefer Reid to play right back against Arsenal, he's played well there before and I don't feel Zura is up for the task. He's a good central defender, but I don't trust him at right back.

As for the referees, sure there's been made some errors this season, which have costed us. But my point is this, when you are on a yellow card, you don't do like Emerton did last night, or like Dunn did against Manchester United. It's unprofessional and rash, and it's points lost!

I can't believe thinking things through is that hard, even in a battling game like last night. It does my head in..

[CAPT KAYOS]

Would prefer Reid to play right back against Arsenal, he's played well there before

Errrrrr..... when?

Can remember him playing there but not very well

[Eddie]

I'd prefer to see Zurab at centre back, I don't really want to see Henchoz play against a side that will have pace. Either play Reid at rightback or bring in a youngster, or I suppose we could change the formation. Why not try playing three centrebacks, Reid and Warnock as wingbacks, then have Mokoena sit in front of the back three, with Tugay and Dunn in the middle. Might work, although I'd prefer to stick to what we know, but if we have to change the formation it might be the best way to go.

[philipl]

Roy Keane rant about refs (aided and abetted by Sparky)

Sparky- big clubs favoured by refs. Clearly doing an Arsene and influencing the ref before tomorrow's game rather than referring to Wigan surely?

[den]

Sparky- big clubs favoured by refs. Clearly doing an Arsene and influencing the ref before tomorrow's game rather than referring to Wigan surely?

He's undoubtedly right. Some seem to think it's a stupid conspiracy theory and that it doesn't happen. [or at least, people on here are conspiracists when they suggest the same].

[thenodrog]

He's undoubtedly right. Some seem to think it's a stupid conspiracy theory and that it doesn't happen. [or at least, people on here are conspiracists when they suggest the same].

Our home match v Arsenal was spoiled by that little fat git Alan Wylie who completely fell for the standard tactic of every Arsenal player when they lose the ball...... go to ground and scream. Also he failed to send off RVP for his two footed (both feet off the ground) lunge at Nelsen. We all know that if that tackle had been the other way around Nelsen would have walked.

[AggyBlue]

Our home match v Arsenal was spoiled by that little fat git Alan Wylie who completely fell for the standard tactic of every Arsenal player when they lose the ball...... go to ground and scream. Also he failed to send off RVP for his two footed (both feet off the ground) lunge at Nelsen. We all know that if that tackle had been the other way around Nelsen would have walked.

Until the referee's have to face the press after matches and justiry their decision making then nothing will change, in fact I'd wager it will get worse.

[philipl]

Until the referee's have to face the press after matches and justiry their decision making then nothing will change, in fact I'd wager it will get worse.

Face the press?!?- the ever so unbiased "we know what sells newspapers" journalists who are busy floging all our players off at the moment?

[Rover Down Under]

I think criticsing the players for getting sent off is very unfair, MOST of those cards were unwarranted, the sendings off even more so. Emo, Nelsen and Dunn's sendings off were all slated by the commentators as being very harsh, unfair, inconsistent and ruining the game. These players watch week in, week out and PLAY AGAINST teams who make horrible tackles that the ref barely whimpers at yet when they are in a position to make a challenge far less serious than their counterparts they get sent off. That was what anyone could read from Emo's face on Saturday the "You're sending me off for THAT! Clattenburg, I've seen you ref games where you've let players tread each other into the ground right infront of you and you haven't brandished a card, you're even doing it this game." This is where we fall down - it is just impossible to know what the ref is going to do BECAUSE THEY ARE SO BLOODY INCONSISTENT! Now we know that 99% of the time because we are BLACKBURN ROVERS we WILL get carded but does that mean the players are just supposed to stop tackling altogether? Some players can't even be sure that they won't get carded when it is 100% clear that the tackle was legit, especially with Ronaldo, Arsenal's entire team and every other diving, feigning git out there and their fans.

We were "dirty" a few years ago, but not anymore, we are certainly not the worst in the league as the tables now suggest. At worst we are overly competitive but dirty - no way!

It is getting harder and harder for people to ridicule the idea that there is a conspiracy against us, Facebook even has a group devoted to it entitled "Conspiracy against Blackburn Rovers" and there are over SIX HUNDRED MEMBERS! While I think this "conspiracy" began as the pro Big 4 refereeing we all see and are used to, we now seem to have second and third tiers that affect decisions. The second tier being the remaining London teams plus Villa, Nuke, Everton, Pompey and Reading (note the latter 2 being Southern) and the third tier being Rovers, Boro, Sunderland, Wigan, Derby and Bolton (all NW or NE save Derby who are just plain crap). Anyone remember Sunderland v Rovers in September? ONE booking (for Sunderland) all game, if that had been Man U v Sunderland it would have been 10 with at least 3 reds, against Villa 5 yellow and a red. There were horrible tackles flying in that game from Sunderland players, late, rash and they meant it. The refs will not protect us but they will punish us and when our players see and feel tackles as in the game against Sunderland it's no wonder they think they can get away with less and they are surprised when they get carded.

There is no doubt the refereeing has got a lot worse in recent years and it is not due to better camera angles / replays etc. The refereeing was never this bad 1992-96, there were the seasonal clowns - Ashby and the Berg incident - and we remembered them cos they were one off's, now it is every other game! It is a result of Big 4 favouritism and it has now spawned an "Average 10" and "Poor 6". Who can honestly now say that we will ever get ANY decisions in games against Villa, Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, let alone not having decisions go AGAINST us? This used to only apply to Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea, now we have to put up with TEN more and resign ourselves to the fact we are probably bottom of the "Poor 6".

What are the options?

1. Do we learn to live with this?

And lose cos we daren't tackle or have so many suspensions we have no squad and heavy fines...

2. Fight it?

And be become proper dirty with the suspensions, fines etc.

3. Become a big or "Average 10" team?

We were big once, ARE Average 10 now but this isn't about results or history - it's money, power, anti-Northern feeling, jealousy and contempt. The fact we were one of 4 Champions, produced brilliant players and football yet are considered "Poor 6" is evidence enough that we can never attain this.

My feeling right now is to go for 2. If we aren't respected then we shouldn't be respectful back. The team should go out with the orders to break as many legs as possible of the highest profile stars except when playing "Poor 6" teams. I figure if they will get sent off anyway why not take some of them with us. Better still break the refs legs. But that's just the bile talking. Realistically there is nothing we can do except hope and pray for video technology to implemented properly. Sadly this is never going to happen.

[herbergeehh]

Is it unfair to criticize the players for getting sent off? Why?

They get the yellow card, regardless of the reason for it, and therefore they need to be more careful. This isn't some battle with The Referees vs Rovers, it's trying to stay on the pitch to help your team win the game. Emerton didn't, he was sent off. Not for a late tackle, but for blatantly bringing a player down off the ball. I had no problem with that second yellow. The first was cheap, but that doesn't matter: Emerton should know better! David Dunn, exactly the same thing. Do you really think the referee carefully considers what the 1st yellow was like? No, he's given a 1st yellow, and when Dunn hacks down Ronaldo on the break, he will get his second. It's not that bloody hard, and it's the same thing happening over and over again, both Tugay and to a certain extent Nelsen's first.

Don't turn this into some campaign for referee's to be nicer to Blackburn, even though I agree, they referee the way they are supposed to in the big games, and they do give out to many cards. But our problem is with our own players, I'm just so sick and tired of seeing a cynical (and often totally unnecessary) challenge from a player with a yellow card.

[colin]

Oh dear!

There seems to be some movement, started by Sky sports and taken up by the media in general, which is looking to make the referees more important than the game to such an extent that everyone, be it supporters, managers, or fans will always blame the ref rather than look at the failings of the footballers.

It's getting silly. MOTD quite often has some "expert" talking about "The Rules Of The Game," or twittering on about "ball to hand" or "hand to ball" or "foot raised" or ""raised his hand there to an opponent Gary, he's got to go."

Now I'm not going to pretend I know about the "Laws of The Game" but I do know enough to know that there is enough carp talked about refs and laws, and interpretation and repetition of meaningless phrases recycled just because someone else used them last week.

This is where we fall down - it is just impossible to know what the ref is going to do BECAUSE THEY ARE SO BLOODY INCONSISTENT!

for example is a much quoted phrase. It is actually an oxymoron, because if refs are so bloody inconsistent then they are in fact consistent.

I would suggest that anyone who wants to make a comment on a ref should first be thoroughly knowledgable about the laws of the game and should be quizzed on these laws before they are allowed to voice an opinion.

And just to go back to the Wigan game. Emerton was a pillock. We lost because Emerton was a pillock and our defence was rubbish. Nothing to do with the ref.

Although the assistant ref should have had his guide dog helping out for the fifth goal.

"Wooof!"

"What's that Shep?"

"Woof woof!"

"A good three yards offside? I'd better wave my flag then. Ooops dropped it, where the hell is it....."

[Rover Down Under]

I think some people are missing the point. The second yellows are given to players for challenges that, had they not already been booked, would not even warrant a first yellow. There is no rule stating that if you are on a yellow your next innoccous challenge is another yellow yet we seem to be on the receiving attitude of that all the time. Also the second yellow challenges have been no worse than similar challenges by the opposing team in the same game that go unpunished. The inconsistency always mentioned usually occurs within the same game - witness Warnock's yellow against Arsenal yet an Arsenal player makes a similar and certainly more cynical challenge 20 minutes later yet all he gets is a talking to (beautifully and sarcastically acknowledged by Sparky.) The other kind of inconsistency is the type Hughesie talked about pre-Arsenal, where a ref will not punish big teams one week and the next brandish cards like confetti for similar challenges when he is officiating Reading v Derby (otherwise he won't get the "big games" again will he!).

As for understanding the rules have you ever heard of these two cautionable offences?

"4. delays the restart of play

5. fails to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, free kick or throw-in"

Obviously the ref on Wednesday hadn't either cos I lost count the number of times Arsenal players committed both of the above.

Here's another one for Bentley, but apparently not Ronaldo (inconsistency!):

"Any simulating action anywhere on the field, which is intended to deceive the referee, must be sanctioned as unsporting behaviour."

And one that might surprise you:

"A player who removes his jersey when celebrating a goal must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour."

So when was the last time you saw this happen? Remember Ballack in the FA Semi? I'm glad you don't pretend to know about the laws of the game, why not become a referee? You'll fit in very well with the current crop who obviously don't know either.

Yes this isn't The Referees v Rovers it's the Opposing 11 AND The Referee v Rovers which is even harder. Anyone who cannot see it is getting worse and worse is blinkered or just not watching the game. Further, since when were people (including the commentators) not allowed to critiscise the ref? Is the PC brigade now targetting this as they have demolished everything else we used to be able to express an opinion about?

For the record "consistently inconsistent" is an oxymoron, which is not what I said and I think you're onto a winner - guide dogs would do a better job as linesmen.

[thenodrog]

I think some people are missing the point. The second yellows are given to players for challenges that, had they not already been booked, would not even warrant a first yellow. There is no rule stating that if you are on a yellow your next innoccous challenge is another yellow yet we seem to be on the receiving attitude of that all the time. Also the second yellow challenges have been no worse than similar challenges by the opposing team in the same game that go unpunished. The inconsistency always mentioned usually occurs within the same game - witness Warnock's yellow against Arsenal yet an Arsenal player makes a similar and certainly more cynical challenge 20 minutes later yet all he gets is a talking to (beautifully and sarcastically acknowledged by Sparky.)

1. I still cannot see anything bookable about Emertons contact with the Wiganer for his 2nd card.

2. I think the bookings come about (and this is to the absolute discredit of the referees) as much down to the reaction of the fouled player as to the offence itself. Going to ground with a girly scream and a quick writhe around whilst team mates close to the referee are expressing a combination of shock horror and indignat outrage is far more productive than simply getting up and getting on with the free kick as most of our lot do.

Even weirder is why referees who must surely see this on the vid next day still carry on being conned by the same teams and same players over and over again. Similarly our players never seem to get any credit or latitude from the officials for their normal honest endeavour.

3. The other surefire booking is if the player tripped or nudged is at top speed and covers about 3 / 4 meters before he hits the deck. For some odd reason when that happens linesman always flag furiously and ref's hands instinctively reach for their back pocket! Ferkin odd and totally irrational behaviour imo that nobody ever seems to pick up on. No on second thoughts it's not odd its cos the officials have clearly never kicked a ball in anger in their born lives). They simply don't 'know' do they?

[Rover Down Under]

2. I think the bookings come about (and this is to the absolute discredit of the referees) as much down to the reaction of the fouled player as to the offence itself. Going to ground with a girly scream and a quick writhe around whilst team mates close to the referee are expressing a combination of shock horror and indignat outrage is far more productive than simply getting up and getting on with the free kick as most of our lot do.

Even weirder is why referees who must surely see this on the vid next day still carry on being conned by the same teams and same players over and over again. Similarly our players never seem to get any credit or latitude from the officials for their normal honest endeavour.

Excellent point Nod, ironically we should win the annual "Fair Play" award for our non-conning attitude (save for Bents) and yet we get stuck with hundred thousand pound fines and the worst record in the league. I think we must be one of very few teams I have seen that do not go for the play-acting, feigning crap we see week-in week out.

[herbergeehh]

I think some people are missing the point. The second yellows are given to players for challenges that, had they not already been booked, would not even warrant a first yellow.

David Dunn vs United?

Tugay? Nelsen's first red?

I haven't seen Emerton's second yellow more than once or twice, to me it looks like he hacks him down as he (the Wigan player) tries to run past him. A better move would be to turn around and run after him, I would think.

[Kennys Magic Hat]

I think Rovers thoroughly deserve to be bottom of the fair play league.

I noticed whilst watching the home game against Man City that it seemed to be a definite tactic by the players to keep commiting cynical fouls to disrupt the flow of play. It was totally uneeded though as we were by far the better team that day. Players like Dunn, Samba, Warnock, Savage, Emerton are all guilty of it and eventually in that particular game Tugay got sent off for two bookable offences.

After that Man City game the cards dried up for several games which coincided with us having a great run of form. Then came the Man Utd game at Old Trafford, and the poor discipline crept back in with Dunn getting sent off. Since then we've several other players needlessly sent off and its affecting our form.

We lost Nelsen for a game, then Emerton was out now Samba is out against Chelsea for picking up 5 bookings. Its no wonder the defence is having problems going down to ten men and then having to be shuffled around for the next game. I'm quite sure that if we had 11 men on the pitch against Wigan we'd have won the game and had Emerton being playing against Arsenal we wouldnt have conceded three goals as Reid was at fault for two of them and it'll probably cost us again tomorrow against Chelsea.

Whatever you say about refs, Rovers reputation is deserved and at the moment its costing us.

[Hasta]

Graham Poll column about Rovers in todays Mail.

[thenodrog]

I think Rovers thoroughly deserve to be bottom of the fair play league.

I noticed whilst watching the home game against Man City that it seemed to be a definite tactic by the players to keep commiting cynical fouls to disrupt the flow of play. It was totally uneeded though as we were by far the better team that day. Players like Dunn, Samba, Warnock, Savage, Emerton are all guilty of it and eventually in that particular game Tugay got sent off for two bookable offences.

After that Man City game the cards dried up for several games which coincided with us having a great run of form. Then came the Man Utd game at Old Trafford, and the poor discipline crept back in with Dunn getting sent off. Since then we've several other players needlessly sent off and its affecting our form.

We lost Nelsen for a game, then Emerton was out now Samba is out against Chelsea for picking up 5 bookings. Its no wonder the defence is having problems going down to ten men and then having to be shuffled around for the next game. I'm quite sure that if we had 11 men on the pitch against Wigan we'd have won the game and had Emerton being playing against Arsenal we wouldnt have conceded three goals as Reid was at fault for two of them and it'll probably cost us again tomorrow against Chelsea.

Whatever you say about refs, Rovers reputation is deserved and at the moment its costing us.

Complete and utter Bolllocks