[Archived] We're Getting Nowhere With Uefa Football

[Mr. E]

Yes, this is partly due to the sting of defeat, and the fact that it's gonna take a long time to swallow, but if you think about it finishing top 6 and getting into UEFA, which is usually our highest achievable target, really means nothing. This is not a knock against the cup itself - you can have a good run, go to interesting places, it can be fun. But for us it's the same old story. We fight so hard for that precious 6th place, and then usually go out against some minnows in the early stages. And even a miraculous run to the final won't bring any real improvement, as Boro have shown. There's no real benefit to it - few big players will come to you simply because you play in UEFA, and when you keep on getting eliminated in the first rounds they won't stay for long.

So yeah, a top 6 finish just seems pretty much useless right now. We have to get into the Champions League to really move forward - which, admittedly, looks far, far away right now.

[Rovers in America]

Yes, this is partly due to the sting of defeat, and the fact that it's gonna take a long time to swallow, but if you think about it finishing top 6 and getting into UEFA, which is usually our highest achievable target, really means nothing. This is not a knock against the cup itself - you can have a good run, go to interesting places, it can be fun. But for us it's the same old story. We fight so hard for that precious 6th place, and then usually go out against some minnows in the early stages. And even a miraculous run to the final won't bring any real improvement, as Boro have shown. There's no real benefit to it - few big players will come to you simply because you play in UEFA, and when you keep on getting eliminated in the first rounds they won't stay for long.

So yeah, a top 6 finish just seems pretty much useless right now. We have to get into the Champions League to really move forward - which, admittedly, looks far, far away right now.

The thing is, UEFA Cup success is generally seen as a stepping stone to higher things such as Champions Leagues. Rovers just haven't shown the consistency lately in order to have a good cup run and season run. If we want to have Champions League success we first need to show consistency by winning league games while advancing in the UEFA Cup.

As well, given the choice, I'm sure a lot of players would rather come to a team playing in the UEFA Cup and finishing in the 5th-7th region of their league than come to a team non playing European football and finishing in the 9th-12th range of the league. Not to mention, as said before, UEFA could be seen as a stepping stone and the player could think that their addition could help push the team towards a Champions League spot rather than UEFA.

[Mr. E]

But does anyone really see Rovers qualifying for UEFA season after season, reaching quarter or semi finals, and gradually over many years asserting ourselves amongst the "elite 4" and getting into the CL? Can we do that with our current capacities? Because I don't see it. I see our only real chance, if we do indeed allow ourselves to have such aspirations, is to produce an amazing season in which we install all energy in the league, get a 4th placed finish, and take it from there. That's no easy task to accomplish obviously, but I really see that is a much more possible way in.

[philipl]

I think the balance of probability is we will get a UEFA place this season. Ironically last night has significantly increased our chances as even with two good domestic cup runs, this is not now going to be more than a 55 match season.

If we are dreaming about getting a Champions League slot, last night means we have blown any chance of getting in the top half of the draw for the CL qualifiers third round and spells a stinkingly bad draw if we make it.

[Wolverine]

Without UEFA Cup football, would we still have Gamst, McCarthy and Bentley, and would we have signed Santa Cruz?

[Rovermatt]

Top players are attracted to the Premier League itself, Champions League or UEFA Cup football aside.

[brfc fan]

Without UEFA Cup football, would we still have Gamst, McCarthy and Bentley, and would we have signed Santa Cruz?

Ummm I think that's the scary thing. But it's those players who put us out of it last night. Or rather didn't keep us in.

[rover6]

I think the balance of probability is we will get a UEFA place this season.

That's some balancing act, Philip.

I think we have some good moments to look forward to this season, especially (fingers crossed) in the Cups. However, with the gallons of money spent by teams like Villa, Newcastle, Man City, Tottenham, Everton etc. etc. - I find it hard to see us qualifying for the UEFA Cup this season, via the league.

[philipl]

That's some balancing act, Philip.

I think we have some good moments to look forward to this season, especially (fingers crossed) in the Cups. However, with the gallons of money spent by teams like Villa, Newcastle, Man City, Tottenham, Everton etc. etc. - I find it hard to see us qualifying for the UEFA Cup this season, via the league.

To the contrary, we are bang on target to get a UEFA place despite 5 out of the 7 games we have played this season being against clubs with European ambitions of one sort or another as evidenced by their places in the top 8.

Four of our key players are playing like drains, Reid isn't back and we've been without the Admiral for a while.

I would say UEFA or Intertoto qualification is more likely than not.

[Ronin]

We did well last season, and not so well (albeit in one round) this season.

Going through via Intertoto may have helped us with the early competitive games this season. Would've liked for us to progress a lot further and maybe repeat last season's UEFA run, but this could free up the fixtures and keep our squad fresher. If we finished mid-table when we were playing in UEFA, and 6th when we weren't, then going out early could be a blessing in disguise.

[Eddie]

Top players are attracted to the Premier League itself, Champions League or UEFA Cup football aside.

I disagree slightly. Top player are attracted to the league, but Champions League and UEFA Cup football can attract them to a particular club.

We would not have signed Santa Cruz without the promise of UEFA Cup football, I am sure of that. I don't think UEFA Cup football by itself help us progress as a club, afterall the only serious progression we could make as a club now is to break into the top 4; however, in order to do that we will need good players and UEFA Cup football will help us bring those players in.

Personally I think the winners of the UEFA Cup should get a Champions League spot, by doing that the competition would become a lot more than a simple distraction from league duties.

We are now at a serious risk of taking a step back for the last two seasons (in my opinion). Last year we regressed in the league and the only saving points were an FA Cup semi-final and a decent UEFA Cup run. Now that we haven't shown that we gained useful European experience last year we will have our season decided by whether or not we break into the top 6 again this year. If we finish anywhere below 6th then the last two years will have seen the club take one step forward and one and a half back.

The more I think about last nights defeat the more depressed I get about it.

[thenodrog]

Without UEFA Cup football, would we still have Gamst, McCarthy and Bentley, and would we have signed Santa Cruz?

Yes of course we would! Their primary motive for signing for BRFC just as the primary motive of billy big times signing for one of the big 3 is MONEY not glory. Dont tell me that you believe all the twaddle that you read in the press about em being lifelong / childhood fans of whatever club wolverine. Champions league qualification means they can attract the better players simply because they can afford to pay more! You need look no further than that.

I enjoy UEFA football simply cos it is a knock-out format abd it IS our Champions League cos we'll never ever get near to the other.

[USRoverME]

but by your same logic, theno, we can afford to pay those players more because of a good UEFA Cup run last season... so does this mean lour osing out early this year means that they'll walk next season since we've lost a few million in revenue?

[ihateburnley]

but by your same logic, theno, we can afford to pay those players more because of a good UEFA Cup run last season... so does this mean lour osing out early this year means that they'll walk next season since we've lost a few million in revenue?

There's no way that our UEFA Cup revenue was anything like the amount you are suggesting! I'd suggest that if we finish only one place higher in the league this season due to more rest (etc), then the extra £500k for this place will be greater than the UEFA Cup revenue we would have received this season (obviously unless we did extraordinarily well like winning the thing).

[philipl]

IHB is correct, the Leverkusen games apart, we made next to nothing out of the UEFA Cup run last season. Leverkusen might have netted a few hundred thousands.

Not reaching the FA Cup semi-final again and, say, going out in the 5th round would make a comparative hole in the accounts.

But finishing 7th (where we are this morning) rather than 10th in the Premiership would fill both those holes.

For the second month running, we are in the top 4 of Squarefootball's comparative performance table. That added to having gone a round beyond our exit point in the Carling Cup last season points to progress in the domestic game even if our Euro venture has been cut very short.

Eddie, the only damage Larissa will have done is in relation to not being able to offer European football when the January window comes round and to the club's UEFA co-efficient when it comes to future draws. Perhaps we need to be in the opposite half to the Bayern Munichs of this world to get a performance out of this team.

But the biggest single factor after $£ in players deciding where to go and one that nobody has mentioned (yet Santa Cruz said it was the decisive factor in him coming to Rovers) is the club's management.

[philipl]

Roque on how he and the players feel about the exit.

[bblue]

The problem with European competitions is that Champions League and the UEFA Cup are completely different in terms of public interest, marketing and, as a direct result, revenue for the clubs involved. If you manage to qualify for group stages in the ChLg you get smth like 4-5m pounds, even if youlose all the 6 games. If you have a cracking season in the UEFA Cup, go as far as the semis or even the final...You get nowhere near that. Basically you only have the gates money and the TV rights for those games cause UEFA focuses all on the Champions League.

[Hypo-Luxa]

My God...some people are spoiled by success aren't they? A few seasons ago we were scrapping for survival and just a sniff of UEFA Cup inclusion would have sent Rovers fans into a rapture! Yes, yes, I know we have to look at taking that next step and go from career mid-tablers to top 6ers, and if you want to return to the Souness way of thinking that everything but the domestic league is meaningless that's your prerogative. I will take every competition that is thrown at Rovers seriously, thank you very much.

As for the attraction for players coming to Blackburn, sure they don't come here solely for the UEFA Cup experience, but if all things are equal (money-wise) don't you think top competitors will choose a team in a Euro competition?

I hate it that we are out of Europe but I think it's rubbish to suggest that we're better off without it. And as for holding 'Boro up as the shining example of not enjoying much with their Cup run...it's bloomin' 'Boro, mate! we're head and shoulders above that lot and have been for a few years now.

[USRoverME]

wow, I would have thought that teh UEFA revenue would be more than what is being suggested (hence the firs tnmbers I tossed out) I suspected last seasont hat teh group matches and then the Leverkusen matches would have netted something significnat, due to more TV matches to sell, the pittance in attendance we make, etc. I gues sI over estiamted the TV rights deal.

[American Rover12]

I too was pretty shocked when I learned about the revenue's for clubs in the CL as opposed to the UEFA Cup. What was staggering was how UEFA cup winner was making less winning the cup then some of the worst teams in the CL.

[bblue]

I too was pretty shocked when I learned about the revenue's for clubs in the CL as opposed to the UEFA Cup. What was staggering was how UEFA cup winner was making less winning the cup then some of the worst teams in the CL.

But now think back to what playing in Europe really mean like 20 years ago or whenever they introduced the new Champions League format. Being in the top competition meant you had really won a league and UEFA Cup was quite an achievement too. Now you can not only miss out on first place, but finish as low as 4th and still be in the spotlight for at least 6 games in the competition. UEFA Cup looks like bread crumbs for the "lower" teams. It's all about money nowadays.

[RevidgeBlue]

Yes, this is partly due to the sting of defeat, and the fact that it's gonna take a long time to swallow, but if you think about it finishing top 6 and getting into UEFA, which is usually our highest achievable target, really means nothing. This is not a knock against the cup itself - you can have a good run, go to interesting places, it can be fun. But for us it's the same old story. We fight so hard for that precious 6th place, and then usually go out against some minnows in the early stages. And even a miraculous run to the final won't bring any real improvement, as Boro have shown. There's no real benefit to it - few big players will come to you simply because you play in UEFA, and when you keep on getting eliminated in the first rounds they won't stay for long.

So yeah, a top 6 finish just seems pretty much useless right now. We have to get into the Champions League to really move forward - which, admittedly, looks far, far away right now.

I disagree totally with this original post, there are only four teams in the country that can qualify for the Champions League every season, if we're one of the two or three teams immediately after that competing in the UEFA, I'm absolutely delighted, it's another chance of glory and maybe winning some silverware - and that's what the game's all about at the end of the day - not "survival" or taking the missus out for dinner on a Thursday night.

I don't subscribe to the theory that Blackburn fans are in general spoilt as a result of the golden 1991 -95 years however I have to say that complaining about "only" being in the UEFA Cup comes dangerously close to it. Once upon a time the nearest we came to silverware was beating the likes of Bury in the Manx Cup pre season!

Hell, if the Johnston Paints Trophy was our only realistic chance of winning anything I'd still be clamouring for us to play our best eleven and treat it with deadly seriousness!

[Paul]

IHB is correct, the Leverkusen games apart, we made next to nothing out of the UEFA Cup run last season. Leverkusen might have netted a few hundred thousands.

£650k I believe which is why we KO'ed at 6.00pm