[Archived] Postal Dispute

[AlanK]

If you are not happy, do something else.

[Tris]

And as long as misinformation like this is believed by the general populus then Crozier will continue to attempt to shaft honest workers.

A mate who's a postman doesn't agree with your generous description of his colleagues. This guy does his own round, goes back to the sorting office, and then by choice does another one (says it keeps him fit). He's still home for lunch. His mates who do the bare minimum must be home for breakfast FFS!

As for Crozier, I imagine he's doing his level best to save the outdated institution from going completely down the pan. When it does, no doubt the likes of DHL or TNT will pick up the pieces for a pittance, sack all the slackers and instill some private sector common sense. And when that happens, the CWU will suddenly realise the world has moved on and they are an irrelevance.

[stuwilky]

A mate who's a postman doesn't agree with your generous description of his colleagues. This guy does his own round, goes back to the sorting office, and then by choice does another one (says it keeps him fit). He's still home for lunch. His mates who do the bare minimum must be home for breakfast FFS!

I dare say there are some skivers Tris, I daresay there are even some in your wholesome organisation....

But to suggest that all postmen disappear off at breakfast time having completed their rounds is a nonsense.

There are few objections to recalculating walks to optimise delivery times. My pal who is a postie finishes his round 25/30 mins early most days. The reason for this is that he uses his own vehicle (paying for business use insurance out of his own pocket and receiving no fuel allowance) to travel his round and to store the 8 16kg (off the top of my head) bags he has to deliver on his round. When his car failed his MOT he did things the "proper" way - by using the mail dumps and the vans to delivery the bags to them on his round. Every day for a week and a half he finished his round over an hour AFTER the time he was paid for - he was left waiting for the mail to be delivered to the collection points etc etc etc

It isnt change that most are against, most support retimed walks and changing routes. It is extra work for effectively less money they are against. I daresay you'd be narked off with that as I certainly would.

[thenodrog]

Yawn.

Stu tell your pal to get thurs paper and look for another job. He's obviously desperately unhappy at his current one and as we all know life is too short to spend time regretting your lot. No one needs be a martyr to the Post Office cause do they? We keep hearing that the postal service is in decline so if the pay and conditions are so sh1t and he is such a willing worker then he'll soon find a better position elsewhere wont he? He's prob miles better off out of it. Never mind unions strikes etc cos the answer is that simple really isn't it? Leaving will prob end up doing him one big personal favour.

Next problem please.......

[stuwilky]

'Drog

Im staggered as to how you manage to calculate that he is desperately unhappy at his current job - it couldnt be further from the truth.......

But carry on making judgements - you know best.

[Paul]

Paul ; it is the guidelines and laws laid out by the government that is preventing the PO from competing on a like for like level playing field with the very companies you seem to be using .

I have no idea if this is correct or not. However I suspect the government is doing absolutely nothing that prevents the Royal Mail giving me a piece of software allowing me to remote print and stuff envelopes. In all likelihood the Post Office could do this by post code and print at the relevant sorting office. Now ther's a revolutionary idea! The PO lost our business months ago, not because of a strike but because the PO's mode of operation is outdated, costly and time-consuming. It costs time and money which is better directed at improving customer service which grows the business. A company showed me a better way, I took it. It's called competition.

Crozier's way of dealing with that is to try and screw the PO workers to the very bone by undermining their wages and pensions and working conditions . Yes , that might make the business slightly more competitive in the short term but in the long term all they'll get is large turn over , unmotivated workforce . In the 21st century when everyone else is moving toward flexi time and treating their workers as a team worthy of respect this is not the way forward .

All I know of this is as reported by the BBC. Interviews with union leaders and Crozier suggest they are poles apart. Crozier's wishes seem reasonable to me. Postal workers are paid for 37.2 hours / week and should work those hours. Personally I've spent more than 30 years working the hours required to get the job done. What's the big deal? I know people who stop work on the dot of 5.00pm and walk away - I wonder who has progressed? On pensions I understand all the Royal Mail staff, including Crozier, are in the same scheme. The scheme cannot fund itself and has to change. Hmmmm......the people I chose to provide my pension have underperformed as well but I don't see anyone striking for my pension rights.

I thought we were getting to the stage , like most other European countries , that co-operation with the workforce was the way to increase productivity . When I see people like Crozier still in charge of large organisations and governments such as this willing to stand by and let them destroy what is OUR postal service I despair . It was what Labour were formed to achieve that they are now undermining - workers' rights and welfare !

We have, although in the past when I have discussed this I'm dismissed as a filthy capitalist so that makes your statement a bit rich.

[Bing]

When I asked a postie I know to cite some of the working condition changes he was unhappy with and striking over, he told me that they were being organised into working teams of six and if somebody was off sick or holiday then the other five would have to share that person's workload...for no extra money!

For god's sake, welcome to the real world. Most of us in the private sector are faced with having to take over one person's workload in its entirety when someone is off.

When I questioned the validity of the strike he called me a 'Thatcherite' as if that is some kind of insult. I just think that it is a perfectly realistic and acceptable view to say that the Royal Mail is a struggling business operating in an increasingly deregulated and competitive market. Letter posting was once their core operation but that's obviously all but disappeared in the age of the internet, direct debits and internet banking. They're having to diversify to survive and that takes significant investment. For a business in its situation, a 2.5% rise and reform of operational practices is not unreasonable in the slightest.

And let's not beat around the bush, posties are very well paid for their job which is essentially sorting bits of mail and then sticking it through the right letter box.

[thenodrog]

'Drog

Im staggered as to how you manage to calculate that he is desperately unhappy at his current job - it couldnt be further from the truth.......

But carry on making judgements - you know best.

Obviously I do. You need to forget colours and shades in issues and stick to the black and white facts or you'll be dithering and pontificating in ever decreasing circles all day long. The fact is that happy employees dont whinge and whine to others about their lot. I'd have thought you would have known that.

but.....

imo we should be targetting using retired people as posties. I'm sure that you know that there is lots of ageism out there in the workplace. Loads of folk find themselves out of work before their time and delivering letters by hand must be just about the healthiest occupation that there is and would make ideal part-time work for many nearing the end of their working lives. It's hardly a career for a thrusting young would-be executive is it? Rather more of a cop-out career imo.

[SAS]

me and the mrs are still waiting for our new bank cards to roll in. the worst time that mine breaks and hers gets lost

blackburn depot stole a trolley from asda for their fire, cost £150 each them.....

[Tris]

It isnt change that most are against, most support retimed walks and changing routes. It is extra work for effectively less money they are against. I daresay you'd be narked off with that as I certainly would.

The fact is that with a 6.5 billion quid pensions deficit and an operation which loses between 2 and 3 million quid per day, they are going to have to accept that unless they change their practices, and work the 37hrs 20mins they're paid for, they won't have an organisation to go back to!

Nice work if you can get it!!

Baroness Prosser, a non-executive director on the Royal Mail board since 2004 and a former union official, warned that it was "make or break" for the organisation, adding: "There ain't going to be a future unless the Royal Mail modernises.

[stuwilky]

an operation which loses between 2 and 3 million quid per day

Havnt the Royal Mail made a profit for the last few years (6?) I recall that Mr Crozier received a bonus of over £2m a couple of years ago for securing a profit of £500m+

[ABBEY]

GET BACK TO WORK YOU LAZY GITS OR GO DO SOMETHING ELSE

Have you not noticed its only the people like postmen, airport baggage handlers, traffic control etc that go on strike. Its a form of blackmail against the public.

Next time there is a flood, let all the tradesmen say ######, we want treble or nothing gets done. What goes around comes around.

wow so you can charge £600 for a call out and £200 an hour ,thats if you can a tradesman to turn up.

LAZY GITS ???BS

[Tris]

Havnt the Royal Mail made a profit for the last few years (6?) I recall that Mr Crozier received a bonus of over £2m a couple of years ago for securing a profit of £500m+

No idea about previous years, however apparently now -

5.6p - Loss to Royal Mail every time a stamped letter is sent. The firm loses some £4 million a week.

[ewoodblue]

Yawn.

Stu tell your pal to get thurs paper and look for another job. He's obviously desperately unhappy at his current one and as we all know life is too short to spend time regretting your lot. No one needs be a martyr to the Post Office cause do they? We keep hearing that the postal service is in decline so if the pay and conditions are so sh1t and he is such a willing worker then he'll soon find a better position elsewhere wont he? He's prob miles better off out of it. Never mind unions strikes etc cos the answer is that simple really isn't it? Leaving will prob end up doing him one big personal favour.

Next problem please.......

It's attitudes like yours that make me sick.Your answer to the all problem is (yawn).What is,are the peasants having the audicity to revolt against the greedy employers.Why don't you just sendd them all to the workhouse and have done with it.

Two and a half percent of rubbish,is still rubbish,but two and a half percent or more to the fat cats is a huge total.

A fair days pay, for a fair days work.

Stick it out posties,and send a message to all the tight fisted,greedy employers who flog employees of with lies to line their already outrageous wages at the expense of the honest,decent worker.

I mean,let's face it.If you don't like it,you know where the door is,and the smug attitude that belongs in Scrooges Xmas Carol,and some refugees have just arrived that will do your job for a lot less."WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?"

A country that is bottom off the league when it comes to employing it's own people.Only 50% of peoople employed since Labour came in have been our own people.Why!cheap labour,and all to make sure the fat cats always get the biggest slice of the cake.

I'm right behind you posties,and any otheremployess who tell their employers to stick their lies where the sun doesn't shine.

[SAS]

wouldnt it be funny if royal mail had to make massive job cuts now because of the lost money from these strikes

[ABBEY]

like the 40,000 its planning already?

[ABBEY]

08 October 2007

Billy Hayes asks rally where have all the ministers gone.

CWU general secretary Billy Hayes asked where business minister and employment minister had gone when they were needed to resolve the postal dispute.

Addressing a Westminster Central Hall Rally Billy described business minsiter John Hutton and employment minister Pat McFadden as “the Batman and Robin of postal services.”

Billy contrasted the speed at which government moved to address the Northern Rock banking crisis with the inaction shown over the Royal Mail dispute.

Billy then condemned the so called consultation process undertaken by the government over post office closures. “Some 2,500 post office counters have been closed. It is not a consultation but a farce,” said Billy.

He called on the government to start listening to the people who put them in power. “The strike is more solid than ever. We will win the dispute. The government needs to start listening to the people who put them in power,” said Billy. “Gordon Brown should pick up the phone to Leighton and Crozier and tell them to get this dispute sorted.”

Deputy general secretary Dave Ward described how in 2007 it is commonplace to work to the end of the day and a Royal Mail manager can decide if you’ve worked hard enough and can take away the whole days pay. “I call that slavery,” said Dave. “They call CWU members “our people” – they don’t want you to have a life outside RM. All Leighton and Crozier are bothered about is profit. They are not bothered about running down the service or 40,000 jobs.”

Dave referred to a commercial deal that has been done but postal workers as some of the main stakeholders are not allowed to know about it. “To resolve this dispute we must remain resolute,” said Dave.

Former postmaster general Tony Benn claimed public services like health, education, the BBC and the police all lose money. “Posties don’t just deliver mail, they provide a social service, keeping an eye out for people,” said Tony, who challenged the government to introduce competition into policing.

Labour MP for Selby John Groggan recalled the comment of former Tory minister for trade and industry Michael Heseltine that there needs to be intervention before breakfast, lunch and dinner. “The message for John Hutton and Gordon Brown is that there must be intervention before breakfast, lunch and dinner to settle this dispute,” said John, who claimed the political terrain had changed over the past week with the Labour Government and Labour Party now needing all the friends it can get.

Once the dispute was settled, John suggested the government then get on with the promised review of liberalisation. ”We are not just defending our own public service here but the whole concept of public service,” said John.

Labour MP for Hayes and Harlington John McDonnell described Royal Mail as deploying a “Gate Gourmet style of management.”

“It is about long hours, low pay, agency staff and cuts in pensions,” said John, who declared that what was being seen with the postal strike and industrial action among PCS and local government workers was workers saying “enough is enough.”

“We are now in a fight back to reclaim public services as a result of what you (CWU members) have done,” said John.

PCS general secretary Mark Serwotka described how his members were going through a similar process to CWU members. “This government has privatised more of our work than the Major and Thatcher governments combined,” declared Mark. “We’ve had £3,000 a day consultants asking whether a banana on a desk was an active or inactive banana.”

Mark told how the PCS were ramping up for a full scale battle with the government. “There have been four strikes involving the passport office and three involving the Ministry of Defence over recent months,” said Mark. “Gordon Brown should get off the fence and settle this dispute. He has been preoccupied but now has time on his hands."

TUC deputy general secretary Frances O’Grady underscored how important the postal dispute was for the whole trade union movement.” You are the human face of an essential public service in Britain.The old days of command and control management have gone. Public service must come before profit,” said Frances.

Christine Blower, the deputy general secretary of the NUT, said: “we must win not just for the postal workers but public services across the board.”

[ewoodblue]

wouldnt it be funny if royal mail had to make massive job cuts now because of the lost money from these strikes

They've already stated they are going to make massive job cuts in the name of modernisation.Isn't that part of the resaon that they are striking in the ffirst place.

It'll all come out in the wash,because I've a feeling this strike is going to drag on for a very long time.They've nothing to lose.

[RevidgeBlue]

Crikey Stu, I thought attitudes like yours had died out in the 70's with the likes of Arthur Scargill. Why on earth should you be able to insist on maintaining your existing work conditions indefinitely when times, technology and working practices have moved on apace?. Adapt and survive.

And to try and pick holes in an individual such as Alan's misfortune to justify your outdated political dogma is bang out of order imo.

[stuwilky]

Crikey Stu, I thought attitudes like yours had died out in the 70's with the likes of Arthur Scargill. Why on earth should you be able to insist on maintaining your existing work conditions indefinitely when times, technology and working practices have moved on apace?. Adapt and survive.

yet oddly those things you claim arent what I am opposed to, but carry on Simon.

Tris - http://www.news.royalmailgroup.com/news/ar...oyal_mail_group That was last year.

[ewoodblue]

Mr Wall argued this loss of flexibility, and not pay, was the reason why he was on strike and said that he believed that was the case for most of his Royal Mail colleagues.

"The current Royal Mail management introduced this concept of flexibility when they were appointed," said Mr Wall.

"Now, they are taking it away, claiming it is because they need to modernise and save money, yet there is no sign that their bonuses have been cut."

He criticised the government, the Royal Mail's main shareholder, for not stepping in and resolving the dispute.

Apparently this is what the main issue is.I like the bit about saving money,but not cutting bonus's.

They're so arrogant,that they can't settle such a simple,reasonable request by any amicable means.

[RevidgeBlue]

It's clear from the comments of the Billy Hayes character posted by Abs that for some the dispute has little to do with the actual wellbeing and future health of the postal service but is an idealogical battle being waged on behalf of public sector workers because of perceived slights by the Government.

[yorkblues]

A mate who's a postman doesn't agree with your generous description of his colleagues. This guy does his own round, goes back to the sorting office, and then by choice does another one (says it keeps him fit). He's still home for lunch. His mates who do the bare minimum must be home for breakfast FFS!

what a load of crap

and alan you have had 3 weeks to sort things out i was in greece for the rovers game when the dates came out

[Ozz]

The strike has been causing my business some problems, and the knock on effect to couriers means they are are overloaded with work, causing their service to suffer as well.

I believe there are other businesses that use Royal Mail to deliver small packages and letters, anyone know of them?

It's obvious really that if I want to send a jiffy bag from Preston to Cornwall 65 pence is not going to be a profitable service. But I am happy to use it whilst it's there, but would be open to suggestions for alternatives.

[AlanK]

wow so you can charge £600 for a call out and £200 an hour

Blimey, I wish.