Liverpool Preview

[tonygreenbank]

I actually taped the match on saturday on Setanta which I have just watched.Now whether it is because it is Monday morning or being on my own watching it but I got a totally different picture of the game that I had witnessed at Ewood on Saturday evening.

I thought the TV performance was less convincing that the "real time" one. Craig Burley`s comment as the game was finishing was that neither side had played as well as they could and that the game had been scrappy. I have to admit that is what I felt watching the re-run.

I have read all the comments on this thread and is is interesting how supporters views can be so different having watched the same match. I was caught up in the atmosphere at Ewood which was like the old days and after nearly scoring twice in that first half I firmly believed that we were the better side. However Liverpool had three chances which they should have taken in the second

.

A draw was the right result. But where TV and reality agreed was in how poor Liverpool`s approach to the game was. Their first shot on goal was 42 minutes and then when Crouch came on Kuyt was freed up but he made a total mess of a number of chances in the last 15. They are not a happy ship as there seemed to be constant carping and swearing among the players.

We only had a shot from Samba, a headed chance for Santa Cruz and the penalty shout in the second half. It seemed to hit his elbow area rather than his hand but Carragher himself said it could have been given.

It is also interesting to watch a re-run of players` performances at a later time too. Noone had a bad game but how Emerton got MOM from our jewellery friends I`ll never know. Samba got the Setanta award presented to him by Carrager which was good to see but I was well impressed by Warnock and his work rate which I didnt see at the time as well as Pedersen`s defensive role. Santa Cruz is a fantastic player for us; he holds the ball so well and well done to Ooijer who was very solid.

One or two posters have mentioned Setanta`s analysis at the end and it was like watching Liverpool TV but after the commercial break they did focus on Rovers and they all said how well we were doing.

An interesting experience for a Monday morning and all I have to do later is to watch the re-run from Liverpool TV and see what they had to say!

[thenodrog]

I actually taped the match on saturday on Setanta which I have just watched.Now whether it is because it is Monday morning or being on my own watching it but I got a totally different picture of the game that I had witnessed at Ewood on Saturday evening.

Wasn't somebody continually jumping up in front of you bellowing raucous songs all the game was there tony?

[Fife Rover]

the point is,YOU CAN SEE THE WHOLE PITCH FROM THE FOOTAGE SHOT.

jesus .....

Yes you can. But only with the photographer standing as well.

[Guest fernhurstblue]

Yes you can. But only with the photographer standing as well.

i give up ..... correct me if i am wrong, but was the footage taken at a football match or the opera? people do get excited, passonate, whatever you want to call it ..... the same people on here just love to MOAN MOAN MOAN

[Ozz]

At the end of the match, I thought it was a bit of a let down to be honest. I guess my expectations had been a little high with the hype of our run and the current poor form of Liverpool. Certainly as the match kicked off the atmosphere was electric and I was pumped up ready to give it all for the team. But the match was a slow burner, and I definitely think Benitez was worried about getting a beating looking at the formation and the overall tactics. They did not even get in to our penalty area until the 40th minute.

And for all the late chances they had, it would have been harsh for them to take the three points as we matched them over the 90 minutes easily.

So it's a good sign to be a little let down by not beating Liverpool, but when you look at the middle of the park we give them a right battle with a right back and an unfit David Dunn! Against Mascherano Gerrard and Sissoko. Should have no contest, but daft Benitez was worried about a beating!

Highlight was the moment when the ball fell to Chris Samba about 15 yards out from goal at the BBE, the noise was as loud as anything all night-"SHOOOOT!!!!!"

Then spent 45 minutes in the Albion Mill car park as the whole area become gridlocked.

[3rdpillar]

Good effort on Saturday - not least from the fans who were excellent.

One problem though with the chants in the Blackburn end was the disjointed singing - one part of the stand starts with the singing, then the drummer joins in at a slower pace and before you know it everyone is a bar out with each other (sounds a bit like an echo). I appreciate there is always a bit of this - it just seemed particularly notable on Saturday. That could have accounted for the chants not seeming as loud for those who watched it on the telly.

The chants are quiet on telly, cause the producers turn down the levels at the blackburn end on purpose. Otherwise all you would hear is that 'kin awful drummer. FACT

[Hasta]

Just out of interest, did the BBE shout for a penalty? It didn't seem that they did from the TV coverage I watched.

Some did but it not everyone. From where I was fairly central in the Bburn End I wasnt sure what it had hit and I couldn't have give it. Nobody around us was sure either.

TV shows it was handball but I can understand the ref not giving it, hopefully because he wasnt sure himself rather than because it was Liverpool.

[cletus]

Good effort on Saturday - not least from the fans who were excellent.

One problem though with the chants in the Blackburn end was the disjointed singing - one part of the stand starts with the singing, then the drummer joins in at a slower pace and before you know it everyone is a bar out with each other (sounds a bit like an echo). I appreciate there is always a bit of this - it just seemed particularly notable on Saturday. That could have accounted for the chants not seeming as loud for those who watched it on the telly.

Being sat nearer the Darwen End (in the riverside) the Liverpool fans sang out of time aswell. Sometimes a song started from one side & you could hear it spread across the end...same happens in BBE. I feel the drummer does affect the natural spread of a song across the BBE.

Another factor in the "Liverpool sounded louder" debate is the fact that all 8000 people in the Darwen End stood for the entire game & sang their hearts out....ALL 8000.

There`s a hardcore at the upper left corner of the BBE (as you look at it) that seem "up" for a song...but the rest just sit & clap.

[Hughesy]

In the Bburn end you could only just hear liverpool sing - so where does this rubbish about all 8000 sung there hearts out? For the last 10 mins they sang, that was it!

[OJRovers]

In the Bburn end you could only just hear liverpool sing - so where does this rubbish about all 8000 sung there hearts out? For the last 10 mins they sang, that was it!

Yeah - except for the last 15 mins they were quiet the second half (from BBE perspective), I couldn't hear them or see any clapping etc

[Claytons Left Boot]

(1)...... all 8000 people in the Darwen End stood for the entire game & sang.......

(2) There`s a hardcore at the upper left corner of the BBE (as you look at it) that seem "up" for a song...but the rest just sit & clap.

(1) Virtually all in the age bracket 18-45 and male. Been on the pop all day. Stood up all game. Normally should and would outsing the Blackburn End as per Man Utd, Celtic, Newcastle etc.

(2) Some of the rest do.

The best atmosphere at Ewood over the last 20 years used to be in the Riverside up towards the Darwen End a couple of years either side of the title winning years.

[roversmum]

This isn't speaking on behalf of those who are unable to stand for long periods of time... and I think this is a very subjective issue!

Those who are able to stand have a choice (apart from the Health and Safety issues and the law etc)

Those who can't stand have no choice.

[USRoverME]

I thought Dunny was excellent first half shame that predictably he went off after 60 mins

dear god.. give it up...

[Jan]

In the Bburn end you could only just hear liverpool sing - so where does this rubbish about all 8000 sung there hearts out? For the last 10 mins they sang, that was it!

That's the acoustics. I used to sit on the Darwen end side of the Jack walker lower and could only just hear the Blackburn end at full tilt. Now I've moved to the Blackburn end side of the Jack Walker Lower and can hardly hear the Darwen end. But they were singing a lot of Saturday.

[Fife Rover]

That's the acoustics. I used to sit on the Darwen end side of the Jack walker lower and could only just hear the Blackburn end at full tilt. Now I've moved to the Blackburn end side of the Jack Walker Lower and can hardly hear the Darwen end. But they were singing a lot of Saturday.

I can vouch for that as well Jan. I always sit in the JW upper wherever I can get a seat on the front row (that is an essential req for me) which results in my finding myself at or towards the Darwen end about 90% and extreme end of the row near the BBE in the other 10% of visits. I can confirm what you say about hearing the singing and this applies irrespective of who the opposition is. You can however always hear the B'Boom..B'Boom of the drummer from the extreme end of the row at the Dawen end, and (faintly) the very occasional ..."Hughsey's Blue& White Army....."

[Ozz]

That's the acoustics. I used to sit on the Darwen end side of the Jack walker lower and could only just hear the Blackburn end at full tilt. Now I've moved to the Blackburn end side of the Jack Walker Lower and can hardly hear the Darwen end. But they were singing a lot of Saturday.

I can vouch for that as well Jan. I always sit in the JW upper wherever I can get a seat on the front row (that is an essential req for me) which results in my finding myself at or towards the Darwen end about 90% and extreme end of the row near the BBE in the other 10% of visits. I can confirm what you say about hearing the singing and this applies irrespective of who the opposition is. You can however always hear the B'Boom..B'Boom of the drummer from the extreme end of the row at the Dawen end, and (faintly) the very occasional ..."Hughsey's Blue& White Army....."

Who'd of thought it. Stuff a long way away sounds quieter than stuff nearby. How queer.

[philipl]

Good effort on Saturday - not least from the fans who were excellent.

One problem though with the chants in the Blackburn end was the disjointed singing - one part of the stand starts with the singing, then the drummer joins in at a slower pace and before you know it everyone is a bar out with each other (sounds a bit like an echo). I appreciate there is always a bit of this - it just seemed particularly notable on Saturday. That could have accounted for the chants not seeming as loud for those who watched it on the telly.

Sooner or later the harsh reality has to be faced up to- our drummer is no musician.

I was picking up the BBE singing and the BBE drumming on the particular station I was tuned to and more often than not they were not together. On several occasions the intervention of the drum killed the chant within about ten bars (music not hand pumps!).

The drummer has to realise that on Saturday there was one (or was it three?) of him/them and at times over 10,000 singing.

The drummer is the accompanist- he can change his beat and tempo to fit in with the singers but an undirected rabble of 10,000 chanting football supporters has a dynamic of its own and for sure are not going to fall in line with the drum.

When I put up that clip of Larissa fans at Ewood, some people posted saying they hadn't realised the Monsters had brought a drum to which my response is that shows how brilliant their drummer is. Perfectly in time, perfectly synchopated and got 700 of them singing so loudly together he acted like an audio equivalent of a highlight marker as opposed to crudely applied masking tape which is the job our guy does.

[bluebruce]

The best atmosphere at Ewood over the last 20 years used to be in the Riverside up towards the Darwen End a couple of years either side of the title winning years.

I sat there a couple of years after the title winning years, and I don't agree. Could always hear the Blackburn End more than ourselves, and barely more than a smattering of people around me would sing along.

The game...I keep being perpetually stunned by other peoples' accounts of the match. Liverpool only played to any effective level for about 20 minutes. You don't earn a draw by playing for 20 minutes in my book, unless it's a world-beating performance which it wasn't. Mostly counter attacking which created a few chances as we, tired, tried to finish them off. I'll admit that final 20 minutes was hairy, but just before that period I was thinking how well we had been playing and how we had made a regular Champions League side and much-vaunted 'title contenders' look very, very ordinary. That sort of game wouldn't have looked out of place if it was us against Fulham or somesuch, apart from better defending than they would have put up. Liverpool looked very much like they came for a point. I could practically hear Hughesy turning out his regular phrase 'I thought we were excellent today', which he has churned out on much less deserving occasions, but no, even the gaffer said a draw was a fair result. The only disappointment I felt was our inability to carve out as many chances as we looked well capable of making. An in-form Bentley or Pedersen and we could have taken them apart. But the product was often lacking, and both Samba and Benni were guilty of dallying on the ball too long once each. Samba was virtually impeccable though throughout (and yet the paper reports I've seen gave him a 7!!!). As a centre half myself, I very much respected his performance.

The media really naffed me off too...unfortunately, the Express is read in my household, and both Sunday and Monday's articles were probably penned by a Liverpool fan. They seemed very unconcerned with anything about us. Not that I'm unaccustomed to this. But I read the Metro on the way back home, and that was the same. Bizarre considering we're not far outside Manchester. Incidentally the Wham-Bolton game was Wham-focused too, which I found even stranger.

[philipl]

Some did but it not everyone. From where I was fairly central in the Bburn End I wasnt sure what it had hit and I couldn't have give it. Nobody around us was sure either.

TV shows it was handball but I can understand the ref not giving it, hopefully because he wasnt sure himself rather than because it was Liverpool.

I thought as much- in the first half, there was an innocuous Liverpoool handball in midfield and it sounded as though the whole ground yelled "hand ball". Martin Atkinson was grinning ear to ear without saying anything to any of the players.

I wouldn't be surprised if Atkinson remembered that first "hand ball" shout when weighing whether to be harsh on the extendable Carragher.

He immediately told Ooijer it would have been a very harsh one to give so he had clearly seen it- Ooijer said he had a worse one given against him at Villa last season.

[Roar of the Rover]

Your opinions don't surprise me. The English game produces midfield players who are all hustle and bustle yet are unable to keep possession of the football. It's why we fail in major tournaments and why managers invariably are forced to look abroad if they want to bring in a midfielder with any guile or craft. Michael Carrick is seemingly heralded as England's best player in this mould; a man whose passing repertoire consists of 10 yard passes sideways and backwards and/or giving the ball to Paul Scholes.

Xavi is a wonderfully gifted footballer who would walk into the England team. If Scholes was Dutch or Spanish he would have been the heartbeat of their national teams for his entire career. There is no way he would have been shunted out wide to accommodate players like Lampard. The way Scholes manipulates the ball and passes and moves to make triangles and suchlike is fantastic. The subtlety of it is lost though on most English football fans. You rating Gerrard more highly whose options on the ball consist of bursting forward and shooting on sight or playing a 50 yard cross-field Hollywood pass are evidence of this.

Until attitudes change in this country we'll continue to produce Nigel Reo Cokers and Kevin Nolans instead of Mikael Artetas and Tugays.

Gerrard can walk into any National side, whoever it is, Spain, Holland anyone. He's probably the best English central midfielder. It depends what style of play your looking for, you can have the Carrick type or the Gerrard type. He does it when its needed. His 'bursting forward' run won Liverpool the penalty in the Champions League Final. His 'shooting' won Liverpool the FA Cup.

[rover6]

I've no idea where this matter came from but if I may have my two pennies worth, I would like to agree with Bing. England produces yo-yo midfielders who go haring from box to box, recalling, but not quite matching, the complete anarchy of playground footy, where everyone plays everywhere. Carrick, Butt and Barry - any other Englishmen who are not so narcissistic that they need to gallivant into the box and grab limelight?

And with those three, I would suggest that their lack of pace forced their style onto them. Had they decent pace, I reckon they'd have followed the Nolan, Reo-Coker, Lampard (admittedly no speedster) etc. etc. paridigm. It seems that you have to be really slow (Barry/Carrick) or really pants (P.Neville) to play holding midfield and be English... or for that matter, South African.

[Eddie]

I do wonder what football you all watch sometimes.

[thenodrog]

Yeah... everybody's wrong and eddie is the only one who is right...... as usual.

[Rover Down Under]

The chants are quiet on telly, cause the producers turn down the levels at the blackburn end on purpose. Otherwise all you would hear is that 'kin awful drummer. FACT

Well for that fact alone he gotta go. If I were a neutral watching on Saturday I'd have concluded Rovers are a lousy team to follow owing to the fans lack of enthusiasm - it wouldn't occur to me that this is cos of a drummer!

The other solution would be to tell the drummer to move to the very top of the BBE (Row A, or Z - I forget), from the one shot I saw of him he was right at the front. The problem with the disjointed singing most likely arises from the fact that each drumbeat "sound" (or wave) travels slowly, all the way to the top of the BBE gets reverberated in all directions by the cavernous wall and roof and back out again. If, by all accounts, the top of the BBE is where the singers are then it would be more sensible for him to be there and be using the walls and roof to amplify the noise rather than bounce it and cause an almost seamless reverb. Then telly could turn the mikes back up and everyone could sing in time.

Or we could just shoot the drummer.

[Hughesy]

Best of the rest?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story...and&cc=5739