[Archived] Extreme Weather At Ewood!

[Ozz]

Coventry City 1993-1994. A midweek game. It was absolutely freezing, a bit like the City game already mentioned.

Ooh I remember that one-it was truly bitter. I was in the old Nuttall Street stand for this game, not exactly the most hospitable or modern of stands at the time and offered little in protection from the snow and wind.

Played golf in it earlier in the day at Beacon Park. Winter tees and greens of course.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Remember playing Port Vale around 71/72, could have been 3rd round of FA Cup, in the snow although it didn't stick much. Walked back home to Darwen, wet through, frozen through and with sodden programme.

I have a great team photo of the 72/73 team on the wall behind me at work (in amongst all the others!). It was from the centre of an old Football League Review and shows the team in front of the Blackburn End, with orange ball and with around three inches of snow on the pitch.

The photo is currently on ebay (not mine, another one!) and the players are:-

Derek Fazackerley, John McNamee, Roger Jones, Kit Napier, Tony Parkes, Barry Endean,

Dave Bradford, Mick Heaton, Stuart Metcalf, Ben Arentoft, Tony Field, Don Hutchins.

Heroes them all!

Incidentally, you can get loads of this type of team photo on ebay. If you then laminate them they make a great little photo for work, home or wherever.

[3rdpillar]

i remember on of the champions league matches inthe 90's being particulary, no very cold and windy. Prob the coldest ive been at Ewood.

[Tris]

I think that tie was postponed at least twice Paul IIRC. You don't get snow like that anymore...

Thought it was worth bringing in the weather discussion over here from the Aston Villa match thread, in particular this observation -

Anyway fresh snow has fallen on ice that the council has decided to leave on virtually every road in the borough. Cars slithering all over Preston New Road at 8.00am (and those going downhill too were unable to stop) was because of this factor not deep snow. Deep snow has happened since.

I must say I have never seen as poor an effort by the local council. Slowly but surely there is a fall in the quality pf public services despite so much being spent on them. There will simply have to be a massive re-alignment of the public services soon. Too much money is being spent on the wrong things.

Discuss.

My own view is that BwDC (in common with many other councils large and small it would seem) have been content to ignore the fact that this area CAN be prone to serious winter weather, and have gambled on reducing the resources available to deal with it.

I'm not saying we should be as good as Switzerland or Canada in keeping things moving because clearly authorities (and individuals) in those locations will be better prepared and better resourced.

But there has to be a balance, and the level of readiness for today (and for the snow on 19/20 December) was abysmal. They either gritted far too late, or not at all. The knock on effects are not acceptable (ambulances can't get through, police only deal with serious emergencies, bus drivers instructed not to leave the bus depot, people slipping on pavements and breaking limbs, etc, etc).

We've not seen the road surface outside our house since mid-December ... we've been denied two scheduled collections of the grey recycling bin (and I don't imagine for one moment it will get tipped tomorrow as it should be either). The councils should be prepared for worst case, instead of assuming we'll get 2cm of snow per year and then allow public services to collapse when it's a bit more severe.

Goodness knows what it'll be like in the years to come as local councils have to make further drastic cuts to help pay back Darling's borrowed billions - there will probably be no gritters at all, with councils risking a few days of public anger per year so they can spend that money on something else.

[JAL]

Discuss.

My own view is that BwDC (in common with many other councils large and small it would seem) have been content to ignore the fact that this area CAN be prone to serious winter weather, and have gambled on reducing the resources available to deal with it.

I'm not saying we should be as good as Switzerland or Canada in keeping things moving because clearly authorities (and individuals) in those locations will be better prepared and better resourced.

But there has to be a balance, and the level of readiness for today (and for the snow on 19/20 December) was abysmal. They either gritted far too late, or not at all. The knock on effects are not acceptable (ambulances can't get through, police only deal with serious emergencies, bus drivers instructed not to leave the bus depot, people slipping on pavements and breaking limbs, etc, etc).

We've not seen the road surface outside our house since mid-December ... we've been denied two scheduled collections of the grey recycling bin (and I don't imagine for one moment it will get tipped tomorrow as it should be either). The councils should be prepared for worst case, instead of assuming we'll get 2cm of snow per year and then allow public services to collapse when it's a bit more severe.

Goodness knows what it'll be like in the years to come as local councils have to make further drastic cuts to help pay back Darling's borrowed billions - there will probably be no gritters at all, with councils risking a few days of public anger per year so they can spend that money on something else.

Several factors here,

1. the council are having to manage costs very closely in these difficult economic times so purchasing salt will only be done when and if necessary.

2. this was/is unfortunately for this semi final only the second day back after the christmas holidays for the council.

3. the Met Office forcast was incorrect in predicting snow during the night to stop at 6am, sunshine from midday onwards. It HAS snowed constantly through out the morning and on into the early afternoon with no sunshine whatsoever.

The council have been out from midday gritting the roads, sadly the snow has come down and turned Blackburn into a poor mans ski resort which has been far more than was initially predicted.

At least the kids along with their mums and dads are enjoying the early year snow. Enjoy !

[JAL]

Early seventies, not once but twice, the club asked for volunteers to clear the snow off the pitch in return for free admission.

Think one was Bristol Rovers cant remember the other game there were hundreds who joined in clearing the snow on a saturday morning. Pictures were printed in the Telegraph and the Sports pink at the time.

Anyone remember these games.

[Paul]

Discuss.

OK. I have some sympathy with your view but overall I don't agree because I think it is, as you say, a balance. I've been in Lancashire for about 29 years and this winter is, I think, one of three when we have had prolonged heavy snowfalls. As far as I can recall the last one was about 16-17 years ago. I fully agree the local authorities should have a good level of preparedness but I would not want the LA investing large sums to prepare for a winter which comes once every 16-17 years and perhaps three times in thirty. I'd argue the resources could be better used in other services.

Add to this the Met office have been extremely accurate (OK not so good today) with the short-term forecast but hugely inaccurate with the longterm forecast. Businesses and LAs use these forecasts as a parft of their planning. If the winter forecast does not include weeks of severe weather the LA will take this inot account in planning.

To a large extent the public do not help themselves. I knew the forecast for Tuesday / Wednesday was severe, it has proved to be extreme. I prepared myself by bring home everything I needed to work and to run the activities on the sites I was supposed to visit today but potentially could not. I checked the M6 traffic cams, saw the motorway was closed at Standish and awul lower down and stayed at home. Several of my neighbours, all professionals (one an H&S officer!!) who could easily work remotely set off for the M6, took two hours to reach Standish, turned round and spent three hours driving home. All they achieved was to increase the traffic issues.

In Knutsford before Christmas I popped into a sandwich shop. The lady owner was bemoaning the lack of grit on the pavement, I suggested she clear it herself and the other traders should do the same. She said she couldn't do this as she might be sued if someone fell and injured themselves. This demonstrates a particularly stupid attitude on behalf of both the public and the traders. Get on with it, clear the pavement yourselves. It's what used to happen in the little village where I was born and raised - back when we had proper snow every winter!!!

In general people expect everything to be absolutely normal despite the weather. They have this perverse idea they must get to work. The world doesn't end if folk don't get in for a day. I do appreciate this can cause difficulty for some but it needs to be in perspective. Far better to stay at home, reduce traffic and make life simpler for those who are essential workers.

Driving in these conditions is very dangerous and many drivers ignpore all the safety rules. Count the number of vehicles failing to clear all the snow before setting off, the number unable to drive appropriately for the conditions. I watched three run into the same wall in ten minutes on Monday morning - all driving as though there was no ice when the road was actually like glass!

We need to adapt a little and make allowances for the conditions and try to avoid contributing to the problems

[whittle blue]

Someone else will fill in the details here, but in 1963 Rovers had a home FA cup tie postponed [i think] 10 times, due to a frozen pitch.

That can't be beaten for extreme weather at Ewood, can it?

Correct Den. It was 1962-63 season.

and was scheduled for January 5th v Middlesbrough.

It was postponed "no fewer than 11 times" according to Mike Jackman's book.

The tie was eventually played on March 5th and ended in a 1-1 draw.

Rovers lost the replay 3-1

[Tris]

OK. I have some sympathy with your view but overall I don't agree because I think it is, as you say, a balance. {...}

We need to adapt a little and make allowances for the conditions and try to avoid contributing to the problems

I have some sympathy with the points you make (and especially agree with those points where individuals take daft decisions and should bear more responsibility). But disagree with some others, especially the ones excusing local authorities for their poor performance - or suggesting that long term forecasts are partially at fault.

From tomorrows LET - "Blackburn with Darwen council is waiting for a delivery of 300 tonnes of "white salt", after its supplies of rock salt ran out. It will be mixed with grit to create an alternative to rock salt".

Not good enough. This stuff doesn't have a use by date, and around here it would cost next to nothing to keep plenty in store. Councils should be prepared for the worst conditions, not the minimum conditions they appear to hope and budget for.

Secondly, it's inexcusable that the previous "big" fall of snow was 16 days ago, but no attempt has been made to clear it from many areas. That is a key factor in the current state of pavements and side streets. I know Christmas fell in the middle, but that isn't a valid excuse. Did they hope it would just melt away and life would be back to normal?? All the stops should have been pulled out to clear the roads we pay local tax to have cleared. Salt, shovels, whatever - the bin men haven't been round so get them some kit and get them out helping!

It's the same barmy mentality as your health-and-safety sandwich shop lady which is preventing this. Not their "core" job, haven't been trained to use a spade, don't have a salt using certificate.

You are right that public money is spent elsewhere, in much more important areas. New schools, health centres, a fantastic new #113 million hospital ... but today those facilities are closed to pupils and outpatients, or in emergency mode.

I'm quite sure that more money is being wasted by having these massive investments lie idle because staff / patients / pupils can't reach them, than it would cost for our local council to store enough salt for the roads.

In this economic climate (and especially in this area where probably 90%+ of local jobs require people to actually travel to their place of work) it's imperative that the council does it's bit. You and I are lucky - wifi and circumstance allows flexibility. Others fear for their jobs and will strain every sinew to reach their workplaces, because it's a slight on their attitude not to do so.

A neighbour of ours came round earlier to borrow a backpack so he could keep his hands free for his enforced 4 mile walk to work in case he slipped. If the people managing our local public services had an ounce of that sort of dedication and resourcefulness, I'm quite sure we wouldn't be having this discussion - and we'd probably have been able to get to a Cup Semi Final tonight.

[Ozz]

Current weather at (The rapidly redeveloping) Old Trafford Cricket ground.

[thenodrog]

I have some sympathy with the points you make (and especially agree with those points where individuals take daft decisions and should bear more responsibility). But disagree with some others, especially the ones excusing local authorities for their poor performance - or suggesting that long term forecasts are partially at fault.

From tomorrows LET - "Blackburn with Darwen council is waiting for a delivery of 300 tonnes of "white salt", after its supplies of rock salt ran out. It will be mixed with grit to create an alternative to rock salt".

Not good enough. This stuff doesn't have a use by date, and around here it would cost next to nothing to keep plenty in store. Councils should be prepared for the worst conditions, not the minimum conditions they appear to hope and budget for.

Secondly, it's inexcusable that the previous "big" fall of snow was 16 days ago, but no attempt has been made to clear it from many areas. That is a key factor in the current state of pavements and side streets. I know Christmas fell in the middle, but that isn't a valid excuse. Did they hope it would just melt away and life would be back to normal?? All the stops should have been pulled out to clear the roads we pay local tax to have cleared. Salt, shovels, whatever - the bin men haven't been round so get them some kit and get them out helping!

It's the same barmy mentality as your health-and-safety sandwich shop lady which is preventing this. Not their "core" job, haven't been trained to use a spade, don't have a salt using certificate.

You are right that public money is spent elsewhere, in much more important areas. New schools, health centres, a fantastic new #113 million hospital ... but today those facilities are closed to pupils and outpatients, or in emergency mode.

I'm quite sure that more money is being wasted by having these massive investments lie idle because staff / patients / pupils can't reach them, than it would cost for our local council to store enough salt for the roads.

In this economic climate (and especially in this area where probably 90%+ of local jobs require people to actually travel to their place of work) it's imperative that the council does it's bit. You and I are lucky - wifi and circumstance allows flexibility. Others fear for their jobs and will strain every sinew to reach their workplaces, because it's a slight on their attitude not to do so.

A neighbour of ours came round earlier to borrow a backpack so he could keep his hands free for his enforced 4 mile walk to work in case he slipped. If the people managing our local public services had an ounce of that sort of dedication and resourcefulness, I'm quite sure we wouldn't be having this discussion - and we'd probably have been able to get to a Cup Semi Final tonight.

Can't argue with that. All this rubbish about cost. I'd wager the council will be paying vastly inflated prices for salt / grit now whereas I'd wager they could have bought and stored it in June for similar cost. As you say Tris there is no sell by date. If we don't use it this year then we'll need it next year or the year after etc. Businesses from afar might be put off from investing in Blackburn because of our woeful infrastructure but worse still I'd imagine that businesses already here might well clear off elsewhere or at the very least negotiate a lower business rate to stay. Given the deadly dangerous fresh snow on 3 week old ice scenario from yesterday they would have every right to claim a reduction thats for sure.

I must say the conservatives / lib dem / for darwen alliance promised a much improved performance than the previous seemingly eternal Labour regime, but to date I have seen little for em to boast about..... bearing in mind that I might easily have missed something as I have only been into Blackburn centre on two occasions since (and through absolute necessity) I received my last unjust parking ticket and had my subsequent written appeal turned down and the fine doubled.

But the roads are awful**, the Town centre is dying on it's feet both during the day and at night, many excellent businesses and shops are thretened, closing or have closed and generally the entire town is getting a 3rd world poundshop feel to it.

**because the Councillor in charge of regeneration will not sanction money to simply paste tarmac on top of a bad road but insists that they be repaired properly first. Sound common sense but I think his memo from 18 months ago must not have got through to the Highways dept yet.

[Paul]

Can't argue with that. All this rubbish about cost. I'd wager the council will be paying vastly inflated prices for salt / grit now whereas I'd wager they could have bought and stored it in June for similar cost.

I had the impression Tris was suggesting a better structure was needed all round. If it was simply a question of buying enough salt I'm sure everyone would be in agreement on the matter. Tris wanted clearer roads and pavements durng a period of severe weather which we see perhaps once in fifeteen years. It takes a bit more than a big pile of salt to achieve this. How is it going to be moved around? How does one clear streets rammed with parked cars. How are the miles of pavements to be gritted? Where does the manpower come from?

It's easy to criticise when a once in a decade event is dealt with in the way everyone would like but i can guess who would be the first to complain if BwD was to purchase all the necessary equipment and put it in storage for the next 15 years. I'm off to Chorley now, I'll let you know how they compare.

[thenodrog]

I had the impression Tris was suggesting a better structure was needed all round. If it was simply a question of buying enough salt I'm sure everyone would be in agreement on the matter. Tris wanted clearer roads and pavements durng a period of severe weather which we see perhaps once in fifeteen years. It takes a bit more than a big pile of salt to achieve this. How is it going to be moved around? How does one clear streets rammed with parked cars. How are the miles of pavements to be gritted? Where does the manpower come from?

It's easy to criticise when a once in a decade event is dealt with in the way everyone would like but i can guess who would be the first to complain if BwD was to purchase all the necessary equipment and put it in storage for the next 15 years. I'm off to Chorley now, I'll let you know how they compare.

Manpower? When stupid ambulance chasing legislation is actively deterring every citizen with a bit of shift about em from clearing snow in front of shops, businesses and homes just I expect so that more people will injur themselves?

Manpower? When the town is chock full of unemployed and migrant workers? Paul there is a bin for salt at the top of my lane, it's bloody empty! No doubt it'll be filled up in the spring.

The point that both Tris and I are trying to make is that snow clearance used to be much much better and that was when teams of 2 men standing on a pile of salt on a moving lorry and chucking it overboard with shovels(heaven help the poor sods if the pratts at the H&S exec saw that nowadays ). One spreader will no doubt do the work of 4 of those old lorries. Like so much else the system and infrastructure is decaying and quite simply is not a patch on what it used to be 30 or 40 years ago.

[Paul]

Manpower? When stupid ambulance chasing legislation is actively deterring every citizen with a bit of shift about em from clearing snow in front of shops, businesses and homes just I expect so that more people will injur themselves?

Manpower? When the town is chock full of unemployed and migrant workers? Paul there is a bin for salt at the top of my lane, it's bloody empty! No doubt it'll be filled up in the spring.

The point that both Tris and I are trying to make is that snow clearance used to be much much better and that was when teams of 2 men standing on a pile of salt on a moving lorry and chucking it overboard with shovels(heaven help the poor sods if the pratts at the H&S exec saw that nowadays ). One spreader will no doubt do the work of 4 of those old lorries. Like so much else the system and infrastructure is decaying and quite simply is not a patch on what it used to be 30 or 40 years ago.

The salt bin on our lane is empty too.............interestingly the farm yard immediately adjacent is completely clear of snow and has been since before Christmas!!

I agree with what you say, from what I vaguely recall of the big snowfalls of my childhood clearance was much better. Most certainly everyone, and I do mean everyone, got there shovels out and pitched in. The point I'm making is if we can't have two blokes on a lorry, which is probably the best solution, it doesn't make economic sense to invest in the euipment used in colder countries for a once in fifeteen years event. Surely you appreciate this?

A lady on the radio was making the point, which I think is valid, society is so instant these days we find it almost impossible to tolerate any form of disruption without criticising "them". Having just driven to Chorley and done some shopping, the town is almost deserted, it's clear virtually no snow clearance has taken place. I'd question if a plough or gritter has been along the A674. Rightly or wrongly the LA can't just grab blokes off the dole and put them on the back of a lorry for a couple of days. Given that problem, and yes it is daft, we can't expect the LAs to have made the investment to cope with the weather.

BTW I have cleared my patch......hope you and Tris have done yours

[bazza]

I would suggest it's not good to "clear your own patch". Just leave it.

My wife and I enjoyed a walk today, being as careful as possible on ice covered with a sprinkling of snow. The only time we slipped was on cleared patches which had only ice on them (black ice),

[thenodrog]

BTW I have cleared my patch......hope you and Tris have done yours

Dunno about your patch Paul but my patch = a private road 60 yards long and a drive even longer cleared today with a bloody shovel!! (my bloody tractor's broken down ) Somehow I have to get a delivery of domestic fuel oil in before Mon!

Truth is it's been quite pleasurable whilst the weather has been good. Trouble is I might have to do it all again!

[Ozz]

I have a vague memory of leaving Chorley one evening in light snow to arrive at Ewood to discover the game was off due to heavy snow. Would have been the late 80s against Portsmouth. I think Pompey where then in the 1st Division and were in the 2nd, FA Cup replay?

[Hughesy]

Is the snow & ice beginning to annoy anyone else yet?

Its bugging me - iv been stranded at the missus parents in Horwich since monday night and its now beginning to bug me!!

[Paul]

I've just been over to Clayton le Moors on the M65 to drop my wife at work. I drove at around 35-40mph leaving a gap of 500 yards between myself and the next vehicle. On the westbound carriageway near junction 4 there was an accident which I saw as we headed eastbound. A car had spun and been hit by the guy behind. There was a half mile queue. On my return, with my 500 yard gap still in front of me, I saw brake lights going on, I hit the hazard lights and slowed to 20-25. I then watched the builder's lorry behind me still coming at full tilt from half a mile back wait till about 30 yards and then pull out to pass me. He was followed by a stream of cars, nose to tail, doing around 60-70mph - all then had to brake heavily to avoid hitting the queue. Only one of these vehicles needed to hit ice to have caused perhaps a 20 vehicle pile up.

It seems to me we are clearing roads in order to allow complete and utter idiots to drive their cars nose to tail at 70 mph in temperatures around -8c to -10c. I'd suggest more than 90% of the drivers on the M65 were driving with a complete lack of responsibility for themselves and others, at speeds way in excess of their own and their vehicles capability for the conditions.........and this is why we have to clear the roads????? Seems to me it might be safer to leave them covered in snow when it's clear the majority of drivers have no idea how to drive in the current weather conditions.

[MCMC1875]

I've just been over to Clayton le Moors on the M65 to drop my wife at work. I drove at around 35-40mph leaving a gap of 500 yards between myself and the next vehicle. On the westbound carriageway near junction 4 there was an accident which I saw as we headed eastbound. A car had spun and been hit by the guy behind. There was a half mile queue. On my return, with my 500 yard gap still in front of me, I saw brake lights going on, I hit the hazard lights and slowed to 20-25. I then watched the builder's lorry behind me still coming at full tilt from half a mile back wait till about 30 yards and then pull out to pass me. He was followed by a stream of cars, nose to tail, doing around 60-70mph - all then had to brake heavily to avoid hitting the queue. Only one of these vehicles needed to hit ice to have caused perhaps a 20 vehicle pile up.

It seems to me we are clearing roads in order to allow complete and utter idiots to drive their cars nose to tail at 70 mph in temperatures around -8c to -10c. I'd suggest more than 90% of the drivers on the M65 were driving with a complete lack of responsibility for themselves and others, at speeds way in excess of their own and their vehicles capability for the conditions.........and this is why we have to clear the roads????? Seems to me it might be safer to leave them covered in snow when it's clear the majority of drivers have no idea how to drive in the current weather conditions.

How many people are making unnecessary journeys? My view: it's not motoring weather but it's good for walking.

[thenodrog]

I've just been over to Clayton le Moors on the M65 to drop my wife at work. I drove at around 35-40mph leaving a gap of 500 yards between myself and the next vehicle. On the westbound carriageway near junction 4 there was an accident which I saw as we headed eastbound. A car had spun and been hit by the guy behind. There was a half mile queue. On my return, with my 500 yard gap still in front of me, I saw brake lights going on, I hit the hazard lights and slowed to 20-25. I then watched the builder's lorry behind me still coming at full tilt from half a mile back wait till about 30 yards and then pull out to pass me. He was followed by a stream of cars, nose to tail, doing around 60-70mph - all then had to brake heavily to avoid hitting the queue. Only one of these vehicles needed to hit ice to have caused perhaps a 20 vehicle pile up.

It seems to me we are clearing roads in order to allow complete and utter idiots to drive their cars nose to tail at 70 mph in temperatures around -8c to -10c. I'd suggest more than 90% of the drivers on the M65 were driving with a complete lack of responsibility for themselves and others, at speeds way in excess of their own and their vehicles capability for the conditions.........and this is why we have to clear the roads????? Seems to me it might be safer to leave them covered in snow when it's clear the majority of drivers have no idea how to drive in the current weather conditions.

Hold on there Paul. I detest the slow and shallow of thought who do not leave enough room in front of them to stop in an emergency but the MWays are not all that slippy. I was on the M6 and M65 at 8.00 am and they were fine. 50 yards should easily be enough to stop or avoid a collision, 500 yards is a third of a mile for gooness sake .... no wonder people are overtaking and nipping in in front of you. Just as a matter on interest what model of oil tanker are you driving?

The biggest danger imo are people coming off MWays onto untreated roads and not mentally adjusting. In fact a Mr Plod from Lancashire traffic was on the radio this am saying very much the same thing.

[mellison24]

I've just been over to Clayton le Moors on the M65 to drop my wife at work. I drove at around 35-40mph leaving a gap of 500 yards between myself and the next vehicle. On the westbound carriageway near junction 4 there was an accident which I saw as we headed eastbound. A car had spun and been hit by the guy behind. There was a half mile queue. On my return, with my 500 yard gap still in front of me, I saw brake lights going on, I hit the hazard lights and slowed to 20-25. I then watched the builder's lorry behind me still coming at full tilt from half a mile back wait till about 30 yards and then pull out to pass me. He was followed by a stream of cars, nose to tail, doing around 60-70mph - all then had to brake heavily to avoid hitting the queue. Only one of these vehicles needed to hit ice to have caused perhaps a 20 vehicle pile up.

It seems to me we are clearing roads in order to allow complete and utter idiots to drive their cars nose to tail at 70 mph in temperatures around -8c to -10c. I'd suggest more than 90% of the drivers on the M65 were driving with a complete lack of responsibility for themselves and others, at speeds way in excess of their own and their vehicles capability for the conditions.........and this is why we have to clear the roads????? Seems to me it might be safer to leave them covered in snow when it's clear the majority of drivers have no idea how to drive in the current weather conditions.

Hear, hear!! Driving back from my girlfriend's house yesterday, I almost ended up in a crash as a LORRY hurtled down the grain road past the 'Old Rosins' at near-light speed!! What an inconsiderate arse!!! Those who live in/around Darwen will know where I mean and how completely STUPID the @#/? was. I just turned into the Old Rosins and he came down the hill at what MUST have been about 50/60 mph. My issue isn't that he was going fast as he may have been skidding, but his utter stupidity in taking that route in the first place!!! How he didn't crash, I'll never know.

[Paul]

Hold on there Paul. I detest the slow and shallow of thought who do not leave enough room in front of them to stop in an emergency but the MWays are not all that slippy. I was on the M6 and M65 at 8.00 am and they were fine. 50 yards should easily be enough to stop or avoid a collision, 500 yards is a third of a mile for gooness sake .... no wonder people are overtaking and nipping in in front of you. Just as a matter on interest what model of oil tanker are you driving?

The biggest danger imo are people coming off MWays onto untreated roads and not mentally adjusting. In fact a Mr Plod from Lancashire traffic was on the radio this am saying very much the same thing.

50 yards stopping distance at 70 mph? You must be crackers. Read the highway code and you'll find it's 96 metres under normal driving conditions. I know you'll respond with all the usual guff about modern cars but if you seriously believe 50 yards is the correct stopping distance at 70mph in these conditions you need to think again. You approve of tailgating at 70mph?

As for the road being fine try telling that to the guy in the red VW who span his car in the middle lane under a bridge near J4.

How many people are making unnecessary journeys? My view: it's not motoring weather but it's good for walking.

Quite right but as an essential worker who hasn't been in for two days the good lady felt she should make the effort. We waited till 9.30 to avoid traffic and make it as easy as possible.

[MCMC1875]

50 yards stopping distance at 70 mph? You must be crackers. Read the highway code and you'll find it's 96 metres under normal driving conditions. I know you'll respond with all the usual guff about modern cars but if you seriously believe 50 yards is the correct stopping distance at 70mph in these conditions you need to think again. You approve of tailgating at 70mph?

As for the road being fine try telling that to the guy in the red VW who span his car in the middle lane under a bridge near J4.

Quite right but as an essential worker who hasn't been in for two days the good lady felt she should make the effort. We waited till 9.30 to avoid traffic and make it as easy as possible.

Commendable. Some drivers have adapted very well but others have adapted 'less well'.

[Hughesy]

Iv been in work for the past 3 days, where as many havent. Its driving me mad that i cant shift my car from Horwich, but id rather get the train/ bus or walk than be on the roads in this condition.