[Archived] Carling Cup Qtr Fnl. Home To Arsenal

[S15]

One thing that has become painfully clear is the spine of the team is declining rapidly.

Might get slaughtered but...

Friedel; quickly losing sharpness, not good.

Nelsen and Samba; not good enough. I'm not over reacting, they are just poor. Samba went through a purple patch, I was always suspect of him, he is no better than Amoruso.

Savage, Mokeona, Tugay; Whoever, not good enough.

This is a big problem. A very big problem.

[gazsimm]

We were outclassed by them last night and we only got going in the second half thanks to Santa again.

I really do think Hughes has lost the plot now, i am not calling for his head just yet, but his team selections have amazed me in recent weeks.

Whats the point of haviing Roberts on the bench, when Hughes is never going to use him, Roberts should of been on from the start instead of lightweight Derbyshire and the way Hughes has treated Roberts is quite frankly scandlous. I am not suprised Roberts has handed in a transfer Request becasuse if i was him i would be annoyed with the lack of 1st team action. I wish Hughes stops playing players like Pederson and Benni when its quite obvious they are not in form, but they still get a bloody chance week in, week out unlike Roberts.

[Mr Maureen]

What was the attencance last night ?

On tv it looked around the 7,000 mark,3.000 of those Gooners.

[des]

I know its easy to say, but when we win do not get too upbeat, when we lose do not get too down hearted.

Once again a tale of two halfs, the only area I did not agree with was playing reid at full back.

I have been thinking of which midfield players we go buy or have on loan in jan and who would be avilable. well there midfield will do very nicely. come on MH gets them on loan.

dunn and sav, have lost a bit of pace and as such could not get near them and when there did, the gunners players have the skill and pace to go pass them.

As for the game, which of ours players who get into there second team, and which of there players would not get into ours. The gap is skill and pace was there for all to see. Yes I want us to win, but the type of football that there played was a joy to watch, and I hope that they go on to win it.

[philipl]

Agree with you Paul.

Also would like to point out that the only match these youngsters have lost in 2 seasons (the Arsenal Carling Cup Squad) is to a full strength Chelsea team in last year's final.

Hate to say it, as he is one of my favorites, but I think it's time to replace Savage. He was unable to cope with the pace.

Two very good points there- on the evidence of two and a half games Sav has lost that vital bit of pace which took the headless chicken to where it is needed previously

and of course the Arsenal kids have got better over the two years but we would have beaten them except for some elementary mistakes in defence last night. The most interesting question is going to be where they all go. Not as though Arsenal first team is geriatric.

What makes them so good though is the Arsenal coaching. When Rovers were knocking the ball around it was like formation ball room dancing watching the kids 4-4-2 adjusting to precisely where they needed to be to minimise Rovers' optiuons going forwards. Having watched Arsenal's seniors this is the key- they are brilliant at their off ball positioning denying opposition passing opportunities and offering their own players as many options as possible.

The kids are brilliant prospects but would they show as well outside of Arsene's formations at other clubs? In the case of Bendtner at Brum, he possibly did even better but that was down a level.

Reasons to be optimistic- that comparison with Chelsea in last year's Carling Final.

Reasons to be pessimistic- we probably lost to Arsenal's numbers 21 to 36 last night when you look at the full squad.

[tchocky]

One thing that has become painfully clear is the spine of the team is declining rapidly.

Might get slaughtered but...

Friedel; quickly losing sharpness, not good.

Nelsen and Samba; not good enough. I'm not over reacting, they are just poor. Samba went through a purple patch, I was always suspect of him, he is no better than Amoruso.

Savage, Mokeona, Tugay; Whoever, not good enough.

This is a big problem. A very big problem.

You're on to something. I wouldn't be so harsh on Friedel though. Samba, hmm jury still out, needs to find his feet quickly. Really disappointed with Nelsen - maybe he needs to find form? Maybe then Samba will start performing too. Central midfield - definitely need more quality. Sav and Axe are just plain and simply not good enough.

[robborover]

If Reid had stopped the ball coming accross on the first and Samba had cut out the second then the first half would have been a lot closer.

We were lucky with our first, but it gave us some hope and in the second half we beat them route one style.

Arsenal were fantastic going forward but Senderos and Fabianski were their weak links. We realised this and sort of went for a 4231 formation and it worked.

We do need a ball playing midfielder and the mistakes at the back need looking at quickly. Dunn, Derbyshire, MGP, Santa and Samba all had chances.

Just a thought- What happened to Kane starting? Also, is Rigters that bad? Maybe we should play some of our kids and give them some experience??

[thecomebackid]

Seems a lot of teams are catching up with/surpassing the physical edge we used to have over teams. Savage running around like a lunatic might play well with some in the Blackburn End, but we have to start adapting to the technical side of our game or we're going to get left behind.

[modes98]

What the hell was that last night? Why wasnt Roberts put on? Why did we get beat by some kids?

A swear at 1 point we lined up like this

A good performance from half time onwards. Because Hughes didn't think he would offer us anything else. They scored 3 and we only got 2.

We lined up like that because we had 10mins to get a goal or we were out and Benni was playing a more forward role at that point.

What was the attencance last night ?

On tv it looked around the 7,000 mark,3.000 of those Gooners.

16,207. I didn't see any of the normal ST holders around me.

Seems a lot of teams are catching up with/surpassing the physical edge we used to have over teams. Savage running around like a lunatic might play well with some in the Blackburn End, but we have to start adapting to the technical side of our game or we're going to get left behind.

The savage effect is what got our game going last night. Pushing and Rushing the arsenal players who very quickly started to make mistakes. In the first half we applied no pressure and were punished for it.

God knows what Reid was doing at RB, he was 100% to blame for the first and kept getting in awkward positions meaning Samba had to try and cover him. Brad wasn't to blame for any of the goals and 2 very good finishes by Eduardo.

The performance from half time onwards was the best in about 8 games and looked more like the rovers from the start of the season. We created so much but just failed to find the net when we got it back to 2-2.

[Blackpool_Rover]

There are some really stupid posts on here now its ridiculous. Moaning about Hughes/Samba/Nelsen etc...the same people you were worshipping a few weeks ago. TYPICAL STUPID FICKLE ROVERS FANS! Keep your knee jerk opinions to yourself and cheer the team to help us get through this 'blip'...thats all it is. Were going through a bad patch like every team will. We arent the club to compete with the top 4, you have to accept that. Yes it might happen once in a blue moon but we wont be consistent in the top 4. We have no chance of that. We should be happy fighting for top 7 and despite our recent performances im confident we will finish around there come the end of the season.

[gazsimm]

Ratings from last night;

GK) Brad- Can't fault him for any of the goals, he's looking a bit slower these days though, but still a class keeper ( 6)

RB) Reid- Not a RB, but gave 100% and got another game under his belt. Looking forward to seeing him back in CM (6)

LB) Warnock- can't fault him for his effort. Feel sorry for him because he has Gamst in front of him (6)

CB) Samba- fault for the 2nd goal, looks tired and needs a rest, still gave his all and improved in the 2nd half (5)

CB) Nelson- Not the same player this season, looks slow and he's making bad mistakes, he improved in the 2nd half though (5)

RM) Bentley- Put in a few good crosses, wish he stopped diving though and Hughes played him on the wing, which his best postion (5)

CM) Savage- 100% again, a couple more games under his belt he will be back to his best (6)

CM) Dunn- Did a few good things in the 1st half, he still looks overweight though and his to slow to get past people now (5)

LM) Gamst- USELESS USELESS (2)

CF) Derbyshire- tried his best, but he's to lightweight and gets pusehd of the ball to easy, good cross for santa for 1st goal (5)

CF) Santa- Man of the match by far, only guy who is showing any kind of form of late (10)

Subs

Benni- Did nothing again (3)

Axe- should not be playing for us (2)

Zurab - not enough time lol

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Some fickle responses here!

I personally, was amazed to see Zura on the bench, even though I understand Reid could do with the 90 minutes (120).

Samba is an outstanding prospect, but is looking mentally tired.

Pederson had his best 45 mins this season.

Dunn would have had the perfect game, had his final ball been better.

Cruz is a class apart.

Onwards and upwards.

[modes98]

Brad- he's looking a bit slower these days

Warnock- Feel sorry for him because he has Gamst in front of him

Samba- looks tired and needs a rest

Nelson- Not the same player this season, looks slow and he's making bad mistakes

Gamst- USELESS USELESS

CF) Derbyshire- tried his best, but he's to lightweight and gets pusehd of the ball to easy, good cross for santa for 1st goal

Subs

Benni- Did nothing again (3)

Axe- should not be playing for us (2)

Brad doesn't have much chance to react with all these one on ones. I am not sure if the defence aren't playing a bit high up or are just so far out of position/slow that players can run in behind them.

Warnock showed moments of playing ok but seems to have lost his passing ability totally. Giving the ball away in very dangerous positions.

Samba will get a rest sunday as he is suspended and we are in trouble as we have Zura & Nelsen for CB on sunday.

Nelsen has worried me all season. He looks slow mentally, which is a worry when you don't have pace. He also makes needless tackles in and around our penalty area.

Gamst looked somewhere near his old self and was definately a good addition to our attacking threat second half.

Derbs is not and will never be a right midfielder. I'm suprised you classed him as CF in your ratings as he only played there for about 20mins. For me he is an impact player who should be brought on up front in the last 30-20mins of a match.

Benni looked more hungry and like he wanted to make a difference from the first touch. He tried a few things that didn't come off but it's an improvement.

In regards to the Axe you are spot on. The man can't pass, has no awareness of things going on around him or who he should be marking. African nations can't start quickly enough.

[gazsimm]

Brad doesn't have much chance to react with all these one on ones. I am not sure if the defence aren't playing a bit high up or are just so far out of position/slow that players can run in behind them.

Warnock showed moments of playing ok but seems to have lost his passing ability totally. Giving the ball away in very dangerous positions.

Samba will get a rest sunday as he is suspended and we are in trouble as we have Zura & Nelsen for CB on sunday.

Nelsen has worried me all season. He looks slow mentally, which is a worry when you don't have pace. He also makes needless tackles in and around our penalty area.

Gamst looked somewhere near his old self and was definately a good addition to our attacking threat second half.

Derbs is not and will never be a right midfielder. I'm suprised you classed him as CF in your ratings as he only played there for about 20mins. For me he is an impact player who should be brought on up front in the last 30-20mins of a match.

Benni looked more hungry and like he wanted to make a difference from the first touch. He tried a few things that didn't come off but it's an improvement.

In regards to the Axe you are spot on. The man can't pass, has no awareness of things going on around him or who he should be marking. African nations can't start quickly enough.

[/quote)

How can people say gamst was good last night, he never wanted the ball and when it came to him he just wanted to get rid of the ball as quicky as possible, his crossing was diire, You could see it last night that players did not want to give him the ball, cos they knew he did not want it. He has no confidence at all, how many more chances does his want.

As for Benni, the guy does not want to here end off, he has no feeling for the club and should be sold in january

[Rover Down Under]

How much the Arsenal "kids" cost:

Fabianski: undisclosed

Eduardo: 16.5m

Senderos: 2.5m

Diarra: 2m

Denilson: 3.4m

Song: 1m

Randall: HOMEGROWN

Hoyte: HOMEGROWN

Diaby: 2m

Barazite: undisclosed

Traore: undisclosed

Bendtner: undisclosed

Assuming about 2m for the undisclosed = 33.4m

And so much for the Arsenal youth system - only 2 homegrowns.

Rovers:

Friedel: FREE

Emerton: 2.2m

Warnock: 1.5m

Nelsen: FREE

Samba: 400,000

Savage: 3m

Gamst: 2.5m

Reid: 1.85m

Dunn: 2.2m (might argue MINUS 3.3m and homegrown)

McCarthy: 2.5m

Bentley: ? (Free?)

Rocky: 3.5m

Derbs: HOMEGROWN (technically!)

= 19.65m

And we also have 2 homegrowns.

It's a sad state of affairs when a second string team can cost almost twice that of a first team and there in the same league!

Not making excuses, just wanted to point it out...

[joey_big_nose]

Too true about the cost. Daft.

for me I thought it was much better from us. Defence is all over the place still but we are improving. We have to arrest the decline now and we did that to an exent. Hughes needs to reshuffle quite alot now, and he has three massive headaches in sorting out the central defenders, looking to get a more stable right back and getting a sorted central midfield. On top of that Roberts, Benni and pedersen all might need to or force themselves to go.

We are looking at a midtable finish. Not actually that bad at all considering the tiny outlay on players, but disappointing given the early season form.

[Hasta]

How can people say gamst was good last night, he never wanted the ball and when it came to him he just wanted to get rid of the ball as quicky as possible, his crossing was diire, You could see it last night that players did not want to give him the ball, cos they knew he did not want it. He has no confidence at all, how many more chances does his want.

As for Benni, the guy does not want to here end off, he has no feeling for the club and should be sold in january

I've been one of Pedersens biggest critics over the last few days (not including Jan of course) but last night he was better than he has been for the last few home games, and a trillion times better than he was at Wigan. Even Jan reluctantly admits this. I'm not saying he was good, more mediocre. I also think he's had enough chances and should make way for someone else. However you give Gamst 2 in your marks and Savage 6 which tells me your marks are more on what your recent perceptions of players are than what actually happened on the pitch. Savage was awful IMO.

Agree with Benni though. Still too many showboating flicks. He did one seconds after coming on when he could have just laid the ball off for a cross. Had the flick come off we'd have still only be getting a cross in. It's not like he would have been clear on goal. I've still not seen the TV replays but at the time I thought their winning goal came from benni trying a dummy to RSC on the half way line when 16,000 odd people knew Dunn was injured and struggling in midfield. We lost possesion, they broke, they scored.

[LeftWinger]

How can people say gamst was good last night, he never wanted the ball and when it came to him he just wanted to get rid of the ball as quicky as possible, his crossing was diire, You could see it last night that players did not want to give him the ball, cos they knew he did not want it. He has no confidence at all, how many more chances does his want.

Gamst was better last night. His corners were a threat - which couldn't be said for Bentley. Not everything was coming off for him, but he did look a threat down the left, something he hasn't done for awhile.

[Hasta]

It's a sad state of affairs when a second string team can cost almost twice that of a first team and there in the same league!

Not making excuses, just wanted to point it out...

Eduardo does give an unfair slant to your figures. Take him out and replace him with another £2m player and we're pretty equal and far more experienced.

[Roar of the Rover]

Steven Reid was at fault for all 3 goals, why play him when you've got Zurab on the Bench?

[LeftWinger]

Steven Reid was at fault for all 3 goals, why play him when you've got Zurab on the Bench?

Yes - Reid should have known Samba was going to miss the ball for the 2nd goal

[LDRover]

I find it funny that there are excuses aplenty for Samba (mentally tired, Nelsen's fault etc.) when it's plain to see he's been sh**e for weeks now. There was no excuse for missing the through ball for the second goal yesterday and how many times did Brian Marwood pick up on his truly awful defensive positioning?

I'm not saying he's a dud and should be sold but he needs to be left out for a decent period until he gets back somewhere near where he was before. One thing's for sure, the excuses for him on here would not be afforded to the likes of Mokoena, Savage and Emerton if they were the ones making the errors.

[AndyC]

Steven Reid was at fault for all 3 goals, why play him when you've got Zurab on the Bench?

That one has me puzzled too. Did he not want to risk Zurab, as he's been out injured for a while? We've only got 2 centre backs fit for the premier league match v chelsea - so this could have been something hughes was thinking about...

[robborover]

Steven Reid was at fault for all 3 goals, why play him when you've got Zurab on the Bench?

It's a bit harsh to blame him for all the goals. The first - Yes. The second should have been Samba's clearance. And I beleive that Song ran past our entire midfield for the 3rd.

Reid hasn't played for 16 months (except Saturday) and he was out of position as well. Add to that a shaky defence that conceeded 5 goals to Wigan and there would always be problems if we started badly.

Reid 120 minutes are the biggest plus for us. We need him badly. Savage also lasted and will only improve after his injuries.

[Hasta]

It's a bit harsh to blame him for all the goals. The first - Yes. The second should have been Samba's clearance. And I beleive that Song ran past our entire midfield for the 3rd.

Reid hasn't played for 16 months (except Saturday) and he was out of position as well. Add to that a shaky defence that conceeded 5 goals to Wigan and there would always be problems if we started badly.

Reid 120 minutes are the biggest plus for us. We need him badly. Savage also lasted and will only improve after his injuries.

Reid was at fault for the first and partly at fault for the last by playing him onside. No blame on Reid personally, he just shouldn't have been played there. The 120 minutes will be great for him but get him back up the pitch.