[Archived] International Football

[Plastic Head]

This is NOT sour grapes but i'm heartily sick of hearing stories about the next England manager and International football in general.

I really am not bovvered.

Lets face it most International teams have players who originate from other countries, were born in other countries, and in some cases merely reside in the nation they play for and have been given Nationality under dubious circumstances.

We might as well have championships for teams with players whose names begin with A...B...C etc.

The ECL is the best football you will see and the Premier League is what fans want to see in this country. The vast majority of International teams are full in inferior players anyway.

England are a team for part time fans to get behind every 2-4 years and the southern press to write endless stories about.

Time international football was abolished.

[Cocker]

I personally don't care however, there are LOADS of people that do care about the England team as much if not more than their club team so to those people I am sure they do want to hear about it.

Whatever keeps football on the news is good enough for me.

[OscarRaven]

Rovers or England?

A team made up mostly of journeymen foreigners looking to progress their careers and fill their pockets vs. a team full of your fellow countrymen, of the same stock and land as you who sing the national anthem with pride.

Strange isn't it how we all go for Rovers. I put it down to them playing much more regularly and not being crap.

[Hasta]

It's easy for us to say stuff England as we support a local Premier League club. A hell of a lot of people follow football but don't really support anyone. The only time they properly get behind a team is when England plays. How many people on here watch the English Rugby and Cricket teams but don't give a stuff about it at a lower level. Me for one and plenty of others.

Lets face it most International teams have players who originate from other countries, were born in other countries, and in some cases merely reside in the nation they play for and have been given Nationality under dubious circumstances.

Here is the birthplaces of the people who started agains Croatia for England:- Cumbria , Birmingham, Birmingham, Southampton , London , London , Liverpool , London , Hastings , London , Macclesfield

Maybe that's why the England team gets so well suppported and people do care, because unlike some countries it does consist of people born here. The only query in the squad is Owen Hargreaves whose parents left England to go to Canada in the 80's.

I don't think your post is sour grapes Plastic Head, just a bit ignorant. It's a case of "I don't like it so abolish it, it doesnt really matter." The attitude is a bit like some of the replies on the Rugby and Cricket thread. Millions of people of all countries in the world enjoy Internationals.

Oh, and for the record Rovers any day of the week over England.

[Rovermatt]

Rovers or England?

A team made up mostly of journeymen foreigners looking to progress their careers and fill their pockets vs. a team full of your fellow countrymen, of the same stock and land as you who sing the national anthem with pride.

I'm not sure what the English rugby team has to do with anything.

[B.R.F.C]

Me for one...when it comes to Northern Ireland up against Rovers theres only one winner unfortunately and as much as I love Rovers it will always be my country.

The passion and rush I get from supporting my country cannot be bettered. Having a team from all arts and parts of Northern Ireland battling against the likes of Fabregas, Ibrahimovic, Poulsen etc and coming off better is a fantastic feeling. Possibly the best game I've ever seen was our 3-2 victory over Spain last year...we had got duffed 3-0 by Iceland at home and the team needed lifting. The atmosphere that night was absolutely mental and despite seeing us go 1-0 down then 2-1 down we came back with the drive of support and most importantly a certain David Healy to win 3-2. It was very much the case two weeks ago against Denmark when yet again against adversity the lads fought to the end and got a 2-1 win despite being 1-0 down.

Having bumped into the likes of Healy, Davis and Lafferty post match in bars they are just like the fans and someone we can relate to. Our boys play for nothing absolutely nothing in terms of pay and only their travel expenses get paid. They battle and put their bodies on the line for the pride of the shirt...nothing else and for me that says a lot.

[ihateburnley]

Having bumped into the likes of Healy, Davis and Lafferty post match in bars they are just like the fans and someone we can relate to. Our boys play for nothing absolutely nothing in terms of pay and only their travel expenses get paid. They battle and put their bodies on the line for the pride of the shirt...nothing else and for me that says a lot.

ROFL!

You seriously believe they play for nothing else other than pride? You're seriously deluded then! The likes of David Healy earns a very handsome wage playing for Fulham - let's say he's on £15k a week MINIMUM - that's £780k a year. Now when you're earning that kind of money, maybe you afford to play in a national side that doesn't pay 'a wage'. Although if you ask any English football supporter if they would consider going abroad for a few days, playing football against some of the best players in the world, staying in the very best of hotels, travelling on a privately hired aircraft and having your every need catered for - and having every single expense paid for by your country - then I'm sure each and every one of them would put their 'body on their line'.

I think maybe sometimes people take this national pride thing too far. I'm English but some of my family are from Belfast, yet I'm not kidding myself that these players are really only playing to put themselves in the shop window for possibly even more financial gain. Of course, representing your country is something that everyone is proud to do in any sport, but supposing that these players do it for national pride alone is farcical!

I'm sure if you ask Healy and Lafferty if they would sacrifice their take home pay from their club in order to go play for their country you wouldn't see nearly the same response

[B.R.F.C]

ROFL!

You seriously believe they play for nothing else other than pride? You're seriously deluded then! The likes of David Healy earns a very handsome wage playing for Fulham - let's say he's on £15k a week MINIMUM - that's £780k a year. Now when you're earning that kind of money, maybe you afford to play in a national side that doesn't pay 'a wage'. Although if you ask any English football supporter if they would consider going abroad for a few days, playing football against some of the best players in the world, staying in the very best of hotels, travelling on a privately hired aircraft and having your every need catered for - and having every single expense paid for by your country - then I'm sure each and every one of them would put their 'body on their line'.

I'm sure if you ask Healy and Lafferty if they would sacrifice their take home pay from their club in order to go play for their country you wouldn't see nearly the same response

I suggest you pick yourself up from rolling around on the floor laughing.

They get paid by their club but whats your point? The IFA pays them diddly squat...they are put up in the Hilton outside Belfast and they travel on regular aircraft like us ordinary joes and that is a fact with bugger all else expense paid for.

On the flipside with regard to your shop window argument its a fair point but surely these players would be better suited putting themselves in the shop window by performing better week in week out for their club and therefore not risking "meaningless games" ? A player is not going to be bought based on one performance in all honesty and whenever you watch NI they play as a team with no one trying to out impress each other.

Naturally players are going to want to get paid and if their exploits for Northern Ireland warrant that then so be it. Having monitored a certain David Healys progress the past few years I know exactly who he puts his body on the line for. I'm not deluded and I know its their job and what they get paid for but the main reason for us performing so well is the pride in the shirt.

[ihateburnley]

I suggest you pick yourself up from rolling around on the floor laughing.

They get paid by their club but whats your point? The IFA pays them diddly squat...they are put up in the Hilton outside Belfast and they travel on regular aircraft like us ordinary joes and that is a fact with bugger all else expense paid for.

On the flipside with regard to your shop window argument its a fair point but surely these players would be better suited putting themselves in the shop window by performing better week in week out for their club and therefore not risking "meaningless games" ? A player is not going to be bought based on one performance in all honesty and whenever you watch NI they play as a team with no one trying to out impress each other.

Naturally players are going to want to get paid and if their exploits for Northern Ireland warrant that then so be it. Having monitored a certain David Healys progress the past few years I know exactly who he puts his body on the line for. I'm not deluded and I know its their job and what they get paid for but the main reason for us performing so well is the pride in the shirt.

Well BRFC, my point is that when someone is earning mega bucks on a day to day basis, they are more likely to play for nothing (although it's not exactly costing them anything either). I still disagree with you about the shop window thing. David Healey's performances for NI got him a transfer to Fulham which to be fair I don't think he would've got otherwise. In that respect you could argue that he is benefitting from playing international games.

There is no way that a professional player who is worth millions to his club and depends on his club football for the vast majority of his income (in most cases) throughout his career, is going to risk all that in the name of national pride. It's a nice theory and I'd love to able to actually believe you but unfortunately I don't think it's accurate.

[American]

They risk it in the name of national pride all of the time. Need I mention Michael Owen? He didn't need to put his career on the line for England, but has and will continue to.

[ihateburnley]

They risk it in the name of national pride all of the time. Need I mention Michael Owen? He didn't need to put his career on the line for England, but has and will continue to.

Yeah but Owen gets about 20k every time he pulls on an England shirt.

And yes I know thats a wild exaggeration.

[speeeeeeedie]

I care about England more than Rovers. I explained this in the other thread last week. Rovers play every week and are nice to watch but they don't bring out the same emotions in me as our useless national team.

As for playing for the money. Most footballers play becasue they love it, any chance of a game and they're all over it. Add that to their ego's and you have players wanting to play for their country.

[gumboots]

Rovers anytime. Week in week out, I remember how much I hate Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Owen and especially Beckham and then they put on an England shirt and I'm supposed to support them. I'm not much good at playacting and I just can't do it. when I was a kid watching lower league football and internationals were the only chance you got to watch the big players then it was OK to watch internationals and enjoy them, but now, with wall to wall football and so much information about players available from so many different sources, the mystique has gone and so has the excitement.

[blue phil]

Well BRFC, my point is that when someone is earning mega bucks on a day to day basis, they are more likely to play for nothing (although it's not exactly costing them anything either).

That doesn't hold water .

It's generally accepted that past England players who earned a lot less played with more commitment and passion . Money was way down on the list of their priorities when asked to pull on the shirt . Reaching the pinacle of football was everything .

I'm of the opinion that we are cursed with a particularly spoilt set of brats in the England squad at the moment . Hopefully the next generation will have more balls about them .

The likes of Alan Ball , Gazza , Ian Wright , Butcher etc would die on the field of play regardless of money , shop window coverage or whatever . They had pride and patriotism ; they would have had it in any era .

[neekoy]

The pinnacle of football for anyone is winning a World Cup, always has been, always will be.

International football is a wonderful spectacle, the thing people get shirty from is that the supposed major nations aren't routinely getting results over the so called 'minnows'.

Club football is one thing but representing your country is the highest honor a football player can have.

[Baz]

Here is the birthplaces of the people who started agains Croatia for England:- Cumbria , Birmingham, Birmingham, Southampton , London , London , Liverpool , London , Hastings , London , Macclesfield

You see thats the problem not enough northerners in the team!!

For me its Rovers every time as international football is usually boring - a great team against a poor team who sit 10 men behind the ball.

B.R.F.C. at least your team (NI) go out and give it their all - they know they have to to compete and you know the opposition will have a go too, and to be fair your team is playing above their fighting weight so to speak with the results against Spain, England and Sweden amongst others. With England its mundane rubbish most of the time, and the players who are almost guaranteed a position don't seem to give a stuff either. Can someone explain to me how Wayne Bridge who doesn't play regular football gets straight from reserve team footy to international?

[rover6]

Is it me or is international football dying? When was the last genuinely exciting international finals tournament? The best players seem to be injured, unfit or off-form. The fact that Italy and Greece have recently won international tournaments playing disturbingly dull football sums it up.

I don't understand why it is, but the players generally (though Argies and Germans did well last time) don't seem to be able to hit any kind of consistent form for country. Although, they do tend to be able to get their countries to the tournaments.

I myself have lost interest in England - but I wonder if it is a 'glory hunter' attitude, in which I can conveniently announce my apathy towards England when they're doing badly and enthuse about them when they're winning.... Stick through thick and thin...

[krislu]

I think international football is great. Whenever there is a big tourament involving the best players in the world, you are going to see world class football. I would rather see Norway win something than Blackburn or my local team SK Brann! National pride should come before any feelings about a club. A favorite club is something you choose, while your place of birth is something out of your controll....

[Lathund]

I like international football a lot, but then again our manager Lars Lagerbäck is now the first European coach ever to lead his team to five straight championships. Whereas for most of you your national team is about as bad as it's been in a very long time. Might explain the attitude to a certain extent, although I much enjoyed Euro 96 and the WC 98 even when Sweden weren't there, and similarly the tournaments we've been knocked out early from.

I also don't really have the problem of having players from clubs I hate in the national team, as most of the good players play abroad anyway. The exceptions tend to play for my team (Alexandersson), teams I quite like (A. Svensson) and even when not they're generally likeable guys (D. Andersson, Larsson). Only exeption to this would be Sebastian Larsson, whom I'd expect to have his breakthrough in the national team soon. With Wilhelmsson warming the bench, Ljungberg usually injured, Alexandersson being an old, old man he should really play a lot more than he has.

[James No. 7]

A favorite club is something you choose, while your place of birth is something out of your controll....

I suspect this might be a reason, for some people, why club is favoured over nation. A club is something you have a choice in, which means you are actively seeking to invest emotional capital, increasing the likelihood of greater emotional investment and attached importance; as opposed to a national team which is more or less not a choice and thus the importance of the national team varies from person to person, also varying in relation to the team's current fortunes.

[ihateburnley]

Krislu (Norway) and James (Australia) - what about if you are BORN in Blackburn? You don't have a say in that! For many people their feeling of local pride is far greater than that of national pride - particularly in recent years.

For me supporting Blackburn Rovers is all about being part of a local overachieving hardworking and ambitious club that represents the traits of those people that follow it (relatively speaking compared to the likes of Man United, Liverpool etc). With England you just don't get that. I love the fact that most BRFC supporters are from the North-West of England, whereas a fellow-England supporter may as well be foreign if they are from the South Coast for example.

Now don't get me wrong I still support my country and will always get excited when England are involved in the major competitions, but the main question is would you rather England win the World Cup or Rovers win the FA Cup? I have never seen either in my lifetime and possibly never will, but I can remember the feeling at Old Trafford when Jason Roberts scored that equaliser and I can honestly say I have never been so proud of the team that I supported that day, nor have I ever felt so connected with my fellow supporters. We were all one that day.

[Jan]

Krislu (Norway) and James (Australia) - what about if you are BORN in Blackburn? You don't have a say in that! For many people their feeling of local pride is far greater than that of national pride - particularly in recent years.

For me supporting Blackburn Rovers is all about being part of a local overachieving hardworking and ambitious club that represents the traits of those people that follow it (relatively speaking compared to the likes of Man United, Liverpool etc). With England you just don't get that. I love the fact that most BRFC supporters are from the North-West of England, whereas a fellow-England supporter may as well be foreign if they are from the South Coast for example.

Now don't get me wrong I still support my country and will always get excited when England are involved in the major competitions, but the main question is would you rather England win the World Cup or Rovers win the FA Cup? I have never seen either in my lifetime and possibly never will, but I can remember the feeling at Old Trafford when Jason Roberts scored that equaliser and I can honestly say I have never been so proud of the team that I supported that day, nor have I ever felt so connected with my fellow supporters. We were all one that day.

Sorry. Fundamentally disagree with those who prefer club to country. Although they were rubbish for ages, I felt more emotion with Scotland than I did with Celtic or Rovers. When Scotland lose (which they did a lot under Vogts) it makes me depressed for days (because unlike with a club team it can't be put right a few days later). Also we get to sing our national anthem to our teams, which always brings a lump to my throat.

(But I AM heartily sick about hearing abou the new England manager)

[Claytons Left Boot]

For me supporting Blackburn Rovers is all about being part of a local overachieving hardworking and ambitious club......

We are not over achieving.

[ihateburnley]

We are not over achieving.

I disagree.

[ihateburnley]

Sorry. Fundamentally disagree with those who prefer club to country. Although they were rubbish for ages, I felt more emotion with Scotland than I did with Celtic or Rovers. When Scotland lose (which they did a lot under Vogts) it makes me depressed for days (because unlike with a club team it can't be put right a few days later). Also we get to sing our national anthem to our teams, which always brings a lump to my throat.

(But I AM heartily sick about hearing abou the new England manager)

Jan I'm not being funny or anything, but if you live in London yet you support Blackburn, Celtic and Scotland you probably aren't going to understand the 'local pride' thing I'm going on about. I can't speak for other clubs and it's fine for you to support a national side more than your club if you so wish, but I would suggest many people in East Lancs support their club more than their country. I may be wrong but that's just the impression I get.

I think with me it's just a case of percentage wise, my support is more significant to my club than my country.