West Ham Preview

[frosty]

what did you guys think west ham should have done when Ooijer went down injured.

kick the ball out?

I personally think they should have, on the basis that the hammers player was nowhere close to the ball when Ooijer went down..

I know I would have played on.

[Wild Irish Rover]

That's a myth. He wouldn't have scored anyway - there were two defenders very close to him when he caught it - it was a very difficult chance and made him look good by catching it.

It may be a myth, but it doesn't legitimise the bad sportsmanship of the West Ham players for playing on. IMO the referee could have easily stopped the game - this is a professional who has gone to ground when not under pressure which indicates a potentially serious injury, not a case of some d*ckhead feigning injury because he has lots possession. Outrageous for the horrid hammers to pick up the ball and do anything other than hammer it out of play.

GRRRRR

[eddiewac]

Exactly, nobody was anywhere near him, it shouldve been kicked out or the ref should've stopped the game, if he had been under pressure then fair enough

someones having a laugh puttin mokoena and savage as MOM, savage for all his complaining about not being the side, and then puts in a performance like that

[LeftWinger]

If it was the other way round, and one of their players went down injured, we'd have all wanted our player to carry on. It would have been cruel - but they were right to carry on in my opinion. I would have done.

[modes98]

If it was the other way round, and one of their players went down injured, we'd have all wanted our player to carry on. It would have been cruel - but they were right to carry on in my opinion. I would have done.

Because of the way Ooijer went down i would have expected most players to put the ball out. Had the West Ham player been past Ooijer and not seen him collapse then maybe but he was obviously in pain and needed attention. The ref should have not made it an issue and blown up.

I have avoided saying my thoughts on this game. We weren't very good at all, misplaced passes, slack marking and not enough effort. For all that after watching Motd back we had more than enough chances to score and should have put one of them away.

Tugay was my Man of the Match by a country mile.

[Lathund]

Well the WH player in question was Carlton Cole, who had already proven that he's a #### of the highest order, so not at all surprised he played on. He really should've been sent off, either a straight red for the tackle on Samba, or got his second yellow for stamping on Friedel.

[daren]

While the Newcastle, and then this performances were bad - a little hyperbole? Some people seem like they want to tear down Ewood and start again!

Seriously, it was an off day. And I personally believe that the midfield were the sole cause of the problem, on reflection.

The Axe had his worst game in a long time - his passing was particularly bad. Tugay got no space on the ball. And both of them play deep. As a result, Dunn got dragged infield to try and link the midfield and attack (his normal position) and to a lesser extent, so did Pedersen. Emerton - not used to Dunn in front of him was not confident so didn't drive on past the 18 yard line and Warnock was playing his own position and half the left wingers (and his crossing was unusually bad).

Then Benni got dragged back. Mind you, he does that himself anyway given half a chance

The end result was that shambles. It also didn't help that West Ham came with a game plan - stifle Dunn, Tugay, Santa Cruz and Benni. And were very good at it.

[gumboots]

I don't think anyone wants to tear down Ewood or the team or anything when they calm down. It's just that it was one of those days when if it could go wrong it did. If a pass could go astray it did. If a player could make a mistake he did. If a ball broke clear there was always a West Ham player onto it quickly. And so on And so on. It's happened too many times recently for it to be just a bad day at the office, and people quite rightly want to know why it's happening. Has Mark Hughes fallen out with 1 or 2 senior players? Is there any way to get Pedersen back to anywhere near normality? Are we just too stale and predictable and do we therefore need to bring in another player or two? Do we look for one moderately expensive player whose arrival might just lift the whole team like Andy Cole did when he came in? Are we going to be able to buy anybody at all and if not how can we freshen up what looked yesterday like a weary, heavy-legged team? Has speculation about the future of some of our players caused general malaise around the club? I work in a school and it's funny how you get weeks on end where the kids are just high as kites and then, just as you are on the point of thinking you'll never get them back to normal, everything suddenly settles down and they become themselves again. Perhaps it's just that same thing with footballers. It seems clear that there is something not quite right at Ewood at the moment, but identifying the cause and doing something about it might be very difficult and it may just sort itself.

[philipl]

We are all being terribly introspective here.

If you watched the pattern of the West Ham players (one of the advantages of watching it on TV is the high main camera) you would have seen that Cubishley sent his side out to disrupt us and stop us getting any momentum with a view to mugging us for a match winning goal.

They were good enough to do that allied to us helping them by setting off at such a low first half tempo and not going wide with anything like enough conviction.

As I wrote in my preview, West Ham at full strength are a formidable line up on paper. They had three returnees yesterday who all contributed to making West Ham a much tougher proposition than they have been so far this season.

[brfcs5359]

We are neither a bad team or a quality top 4 team. With a bit of luck (injuries, form, january signings) we can climb to 5th or 6th. We are only 4 points of 5th and all the other teams in this 2nd tier are having mixed results and bemoaning inconsistency, just like the Rovers. We are better than West Ham, Newcastle and Pompey. On a par with Villa and Man City and Everton and our results and performance reflect we are all battling against ourselves and each other.

For too long our midfield has been our MAJOR problem. Two things stand out game after game. We are ALWAYS playing in front of the opposition defence(which made West Ham, an average team with just 19 points yesterday, look good) AND our strikers are always unsupported, isolated, the lack of midfield link up play is all too common. Our midfielders are so deep we can end up hitting long balls if we are closed down well.

When we're good though, last season it was Pederson and Bentley, this year Dunn and Bentley, we get up and support the strikers and then we get displays like the 1st 30 minutes against Villa, sublime, the best of Rovers. Bentley was missed yesterday even though his final ball can be poor, simply because he is in the danger areas, receiving and controlling the ball causing panic.

Tugay cannot get up field for the majority of the game, he sits so deep he oftne plays centre half and tries to thread 30-40-50 yard balls through the eye of the needle. Such a shame because he displays what a class act he can be when he does get 30 yards out. THe pass to Cruz, the shot yesterday and the goal v. Newcastle. The Axe is far too defensive, and sometime ineffective at that. Savage last season was good because he pushed on and chased. Not sure he has not suffered because of his injuries and if so he has little else in his game. These three are heading out of the first team.

The team needs a shake up. I don't think Dunn is any worse than anyone else and at least gets up to support the strikers so is a first choice with Bentley. I would play Emerton in centre midfield till we can plug the gap with Reid for an all action midfield. The only players with energy and at least Emo can control and pass and run at players. I think energy in midfield in the premiership is everything in Rovers position. Kinish should fill the full back slot AND give us MORE talking and organisation.

Pederson was woeful and crises of confidence he may have, a passenger he cannot be. Benni is trying and I feel for all the strikers except Roberts whose game thrives on a long ball battles and running in to acres of space using power and pace and has as a consequence looked our best striker in the difficult period. Roberts has improved considerably. There is a case for Roberts Cruz up top, Benni in the hole and 3 in midfield.

The defence is worrying. On paper good. In practice sloppy, hence bringing in Kinish. Samba, great concentration and performance for 89 or 90 minutes. Needs to improve and cut out the mistakes such as Newcastle's first goal; at 6ft7 he should read, time, dominate clear with his bonce no problem. However overall he has been excellent so far, POS. Nelsen. Off the boil. Long ball distribution. Yard of pace gone. Too tight to defenders as he overcompensates for a lack of pace. Penalties, shirt pulling common place. Oijar too slow. Yesterday he was excellent but in general he will always struggle. Wrong side of 33 as well. Warnock is ok but so one footed. He needs to bomb on because defensively he is only above average. Personally I would bring in Nicky Shorey. He would certainly beef up our awful set plays. Sav did better taking them yesterday in Bents absence.

Cruz is ace but his track record on goalscoring shows he is no Ian Rush and we must play as a team to get the best out of him sharing the goals around. ie Midfielders getting u the pitch. I feel sorry for the strikers. Isolated and living off crumbs for long periods.

Wigan team

Friedel

Kinish - Nelsen - Samba - Warnock

Bentley - Reid - Emerton - Dunn

Cruz - Benni

[John]

Granted we have had a few key suspensions recently, but slightly worrying that Hughes has a fully fit squad to choose from.

We also have had the advantage of having a fairly settled team (unlike last season).

Quite amusing (in a strange sort of way) reading some of the views in this thread, you would think we were in the bottom three. Then again, I am still angry about yesterday's performance, but that is because Hughes has set the expectation levels so high.

[sanlorenzo]

We are neither a bad team or a quality top 4 team. With a bit of luck (injuries, form, january signings) we can climb to 5th or 6th. We are only 4 points of 5th and all the other teams in this 2nd tier are having mixed results and bemoaning inconsistency, just like the Rovers. We are better than West Ham, Newcastle and Pompey. On a par with Villa and Man City and Everton and our results and performance reflect we are all battling against ourselves and each other.

For too long our midfield has been our MAJOR problem. Two things stand out game after game. We are ALWAYS playing in front of the opposition defence(which made West Ham, an average team with just 19 points yesterday, look good) AND our strikers are always unsupported, isolated, the lack of midfield link up play is all too common. Our midfielders are so deep we can end up hitting long balls if we are closed down well.

When we're good though, last season it was Pederson and Bentley, this year Dunn and Bentley, we get up and support the strikers and then we get displays like the 1st 30 minutes against Villa, sublime, the best of Rovers. Bentley was missed yesterday even though his final ball can be poor, simply because he is in the danger areas, receiving and controlling the ball causing panic.

Tugay cannot get up field for the majority of the game, he sits so deep he oftne plays centre half and tries to thread 30-40-50 yard balls through the eye of the needle. Such a shame because he displays what a class act he can be when he does get 30 yards out. THe pass to Cruz, the shot yesterday and the goal v. Newcastle. The Axe is far too defensive, and sometime ineffective at that. Savage last season was good because he pushed on and chased. Not sure he has not suffered because of his injuries and if so he has little else in his game. These three are heading out of the first team.

The team needs a shake up. I don't think Dunn is any worse than anyone else and at least gets up to support the strikers so is a first choice with Bentley. I would play Emerton in centre midfield till we can plug the gap with Reid for an all action midfield. The only players with energy and at least Emo can control and pass and run at players. I think energy in midfield in the premiership is everything in Rovers position. Kinish should fill the full back slot AND give us MORE talking and organisation.

Pederson was woeful and crises of confidence he may have, a passenger he cannot be. Benni is trying and I feel for all the strikers except Roberts whose game thrives on a long ball battles and running in to acres of space using power and pace and has as a consequence looked our best striker in the difficult period. Roberts has improved considerably. There is a case for Roberts Cruz up top, Benni in the hole and 3 in midfield.

The defence is worrying. On paper good. In practice sloppy, hence bringing in Kinish. Samba, great concentration and performance for 89 or 90 minutes. Needs to improve and cut out the mistakes such as Newcastle's first goal; at 6ft7 he should read, time, dominate clear with his bonce no problem. However overall he has been excellent so far, POS. Nelsen. Off the boil. Long ball distribution. Yard of pace gone. Too tight to defenders as he overcompensates for a lack of pace. Penalties, shirt pulling common place. Oijar too slow. Yesterday he was excellent but in general he will always struggle. Wrong side of 33 as well. Warnock is ok but so one footed. He needs to bomb on because defensively he is only above average. Personally I would bring in Nicky Shorey. He would certainly beef up our awful set plays. Sav did better taking them yesterday in Bents absence.

Cruz is ace but his track record on goalscoring shows he is no Ian Rush and we must play as a team to get the best out of him sharing the goals around. ie Midfielders getting u the pitch. I feel sorry for the strikers. Isolated and living off crumbs for long periods.

Wigan team

Friedel

Kinish - Nelsen - Samba - Warnock

Bentley - Reid - Emerton - Dunn

Cruz - Benni

[sanlorenzo]

You are absolutely right. That is the most intelligent, accuarate account of the Rovers at present that i have seen. Santa Cruz will score as he has. I think everyone's confidence needs a boost. I like the idea of Roberts and Roque up front. We shall see.

[B.R.F.C]

Well that was awful...

Few brief points about the game because I haven't got the enthusiasm or energy to write much else:

Sloppy Passing-Some lads need a kick up the arse...we are not Brazil lets just get the basics right

Benni McCarthy-Either start performing or move on

Dunny-Again get the basics right before dancing over the ball

Lack of Width-Everyone seems to be banging on about how we need a new central midfielder but for me we need a winger. Several times the midfield four were all within 10 yards of each other and we were simply far too narrow.

Hope Sparky gave them a right bollocking after that.

[Roar of the Rover]

the simple facts are that last week against newcastle the middle didnt provide much service to the front two, until bentley pulled them out the ###### ...... today there was no bentley and as a result the midfield once again provided nothing to the front two, although RSC should have scored with his chance.

just one question to come from today's match - WHAT DOES SAVAGE ADD TO THE TEAM?

When Savage goes into a tackle he wins them more than Mokoena does and secondly he can pass the ball unlike Mokoena.

[AggyBlue]

When Savage goes into a tackle he wins them more than Mokoena does and secondly he can pass the ball unlike Mokoena.

Only if he has loads of time and at least three options otherwise he lashes wildly at it and the ball goes anywhere

[Whyoy]

I've read the last three pages and "graham's" comments give a good overview

The fit midfielders available to us recently have been of the "sit in fromt of the defence variety". which aint ideal when you have three home matches on the bounce to contend with. Love him or not, playing Robbie means that the team competes for the ball much further up the field. With Reid comimg back to fitness his inclusion will add support to Savages efforts in the oppositions half making the team more threatening, cutting the distance between the midifeld and the attackers and consequently taking the pressure off the defence.

No one can say that we've been a team that relies on pace in the past. We've never really been a couter attacking side. What we have had in Bentley and Gamst is players who could whip in crosses from half way into the opponents half and leave the forwards to do the damage with quick support from the midfield. It hasn't worked recently because our midfielders have rarely been going over the half way line and the wingers have had to be used as defensive cover much further back than they usually have to.

In the past when we gained possession of the ball in the oppositions half, the full back's suddenly have become free men. There's nothing better that either one of them likes than pretending that they are really wingers. We've got the ball, the opposition defenders are marking the dangerous Bentley and Pederson and the full back's have had acres of space in front of them.

If Mark Hughes wants to change to a counter attacking style then we will need at least one winger and one striker with serious pace, like the Villa. If he wants to keep the existing style then he needs another runner in midfield to cover for injuries because if one thing the last three matches has taught us, we haven't got enough of the right players to play the MH preferred style.

One last point, I feel a bit sorry for Mokoena. He's a converted centre half of dubious quality and has played several excellent games sitting in front of the defence against opposition that will continually press. He isn't a player for a midfield role when we're supposed to be putting pressure on the opposition. It's not his fault that MH daren't risk RS or SR for 90 minutes as has been the case in the last three home matches.

[Jordan]

Disappointing result today matched with the performance. Anyone else think that some of the players were up watching the Hatton fight at 4am? I am sure someone said that Dunny was one of his best mates.

Its more frustrating when we are losing at home to teams who we are competing with for positions in the table like Pompy.

It is fairly worrying that we seem to have one way of playing football and when a team comes and plays like West Ham and Pompy we seem lost for ideas.

[RevidgeBlue]

Very poor performance but no great surprise as it was really just a continuation of the poor form against Newcastle, when we were equally as bad but somehow managed to come away with the three points.

To my mind the root cause of all our problems is fairly straightforward and Hughes must take the blame for this defeat. Mokoena and Tugay simply can't play together, they both play far too deep and I really don't know why the manager persists in picking them together. When they're the central midfield combo, there is no closing down of the opposition, they get the freedom of the midfield and there's no movement in front of us when we pick up possession, with the forwards completely isolated miles up the pitch. RSC's game in particular is starting to suffer. Benni looked one of the more likely candidates to make something happen, but his threat is snuffed out completely when he drops back near the halfway line.

When you're not playing well offensively it automatically puts more pressure on the defence and I feel with us sitting back so deep the defence as a unit has lost confidence.

We needed Reid, Savage and Roberts on at half time really on Sunday, we looked reasonably threatning with the finishing line up but the changes were left far too late - what's the point in leaving it until 14 minutes from the end to introduce Roberts when we're one down? He must think he"s run over Mark Hughes cat anyway not to be in the starting line up after his contribution against Newcastle.

MGP is a strange one, with not being a regular in the side recently you'd think he'd be busting a gut to impress - no sign whatsoever of that on Sunday.

Typical Rovers really, in a great position with three successive home games to come, and we go and blow it. Just at this precise moment, I'm not in love with football at all and if I hear Mokoena and Tugay are starting another game I'd be tempted to turn the car round and go home.

Savage must start from now on, since he got injured at Spurs we've been beaten three times in six games with only a fluke win against Newcastle making the bare statistics look more acceptable. I thought Reid looked quite good when he came on and if we can get an hour out of him fitness wise maybe he should start as well.

Failing that Dunn should be switched back into the middle where he is most comfortable.

Grrrrr.................................

[Presty On Tour]

we really missed nelsen and bentley and the performance was topped of by santa's sykward effort!

[thenodrog]

we really missed nelsen and bentley ...

I had to miss this match but after reading the rest of this thread I assume that you must mean that we needed em on top of the normal 11.

[rebelmswar]

Could it all be down to us starting to believe in our own press? We flick and ponce about with the ball but never stick them in the stomach, I think a more direct style should be in order. Do not get me wrong however, I love that we have the ability to play lovely attractive somewhat pretentious football but killing the other team is more of what is needed.

[RoversFanUSA]

We are neither a bad team or a quality top 4 team. With a bit of luck (injuries, form, january signings) we can climb to 5th or 6th. We are only 4 points of 5th and all the other teams in this 2nd tier are having mixed results and bemoaning inconsistency, just like the Rovers. We are better than West Ham, Newcastle and Pompey. On a par with Villa and Man City and Everton and our results and performance reflect we are all battling against ourselves and each other.

For too long our midfield has been our MAJOR problem. Two things stand out game after game. We are ALWAYS playing in front of the opposition defence(which made West Ham, an average team with just 19 points yesterday, look good) AND our strikers are always unsupported, isolated, the lack of midfield link up play is all too common. Our midfielders are so deep we can end up hitting long balls if we are closed down well.

When we're good though, last season it was Pederson and Bentley, this year Dunn and Bentley, we get up and support the strikers and then we get displays like the 1st 30 minutes against Villa, sublime, the best of Rovers. Bentley was missed yesterday even though his final ball can be poor, simply because he is in the danger areas, receiving and controlling the ball causing panic.

Tugay cannot get up field for the majority of the game, he sits so deep he oftne plays centre half and tries to thread 30-40-50 yard balls through the eye of the needle. Such a shame because he displays what a class act he can be when he does get 30 yards out. THe pass to Cruz, the shot yesterday and the goal v. Newcastle. The Axe is far too defensive, and sometime ineffective at that. Savage last season was good because he pushed on and chased. Not sure he has not suffered because of his injuries and if so he has little else in his game. These three are heading out of the first team.

The team needs a shake up. I don't think Dunn is any worse than anyone else and at least gets up to support the strikers so is a first choice with Bentley. I would play Emerton in centre midfield till we can plug the gap with Reid for an all action midfield. The only players with energy and at least Emo can control and pass and run at players. I think energy in midfield in the premiership is everything in Rovers position. Kinish should fill the full back slot AND give us MORE talking and organisation.

Pederson was woeful and crises of confidence he may have, a passenger he cannot be. Benni is trying and I feel for all the strikers except Roberts whose game thrives on a long ball battles and running in to acres of space using power and pace and has as a consequence looked our best striker in the difficult period. Roberts has improved considerably. There is a case for Roberts Cruz up top, Benni in the hole and 3 in midfield.

The defence is worrying. On paper good. In practice sloppy, hence bringing in Kinish. Samba, great concentration and performance for 89 or 90 minutes. Needs to improve and cut out the mistakes such as Newcastle's first goal; at 6ft7 he should read, time, dominate clear with his bonce no problem. However overall he has been excellent so far, POS. Nelsen. Off the boil. Long ball distribution. Yard of pace gone. Too tight to defenders as he overcompensates for a lack of pace. Penalties, shirt pulling common place. Oijar too slow. Yesterday he was excellent but in general he will always struggle. Wrong side of 33 as well. Warnock is ok but so one footed. He needs to bomb on because defensively he is only above average. Personally I would bring in Nicky Shorey. He would certainly beef up our awful set plays. Sav did better taking them yesterday in Bents absence.

Cruz is ace but his track record on goalscoring shows he is no Ian Rush and we must play as a team to get the best out of him sharing the goals around. ie Midfielders getting u the pitch. I feel sorry for the strikers. Isolated and living off crumbs for long periods.

Wigan team

Friedel

Kinish - Nelsen - Samba - Warnock

Bentley - Reid - Emerton - Dunn

Cruz - Benni

Well said, but you forgot to say how great brad is!! UP BRAD and UP ROVERS!!

I also have to say that i did get to watch the first half and i feel IMO we played pretty good. I did see santas miss and could not belive it. I hate loseing to teams we know were bettter than..Drives me crazy . On top of that all the crap i got from my best friend for losing to his 'ammers almost made me want to punch him in the face. Over all disapointed...

[joey_big_nose]

I dont think Savage is the greatest player in the word but we need him to play. Whats going on? He is fundamental to the way we are set up. Him and Hughes have to have fallen out or something.

Midfield for the weekend has to be: Dunn-Savage-Reid- Bentley. Of Reid isn't fit to start we could drop Benni into the hole and play an extra striker.

To echo Revridge- Roberts was very good for us against Flham and Newcastle. He needs a shot at some point. Plus we have Derbs. It is a strong stable fo attackign talent, lets use it.

[thenodrog]

I dont think Savage is the greatest player in the word but we need him to play. Whats going on? He is fundamental to the way we are set up. Him and Hughes have to have fallen out or something.

C'mon jbn consider the situation fully. I've already pointed out somewhere that Mokoena will be leaving soon for Africa. It would be daft to play Sav and see him get hurt when the only alternative is away for a few weeks. Hughes is merely keeping his powder dry imo and will no doubt have informed Sav. Press stories of a rift are prob unfounded and made up simply to fill a bit of column space.