[Archived] Why Do We Have No Money

[broadsword]

Or to use a comparison I've used in the past, trying to keep our "Ferrari" (TM Stan Ternent) running at peak performance whilst never sending it in for servicing at the prescribed service intervals. (The transfer windows)

Never servicing it, and sometimes lending it to Stevie Wonder for a test drive around the narrow streets of Marseilles.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Rovers the bottom of the spending pile over the last 5 years....I wonder in comparison what the clubs total turnover comes to over those 5 years, must be well in excess of 100 Million?

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Rovers the bottom of the spending pile over the last 5 years....I wonder in comparison what the clubs total turnover comes to over those 5 years, must be well in excess of 100 Million?

It will we closer to 200 million than 100. With turnover for this accountable year around 60 mill; when the new tv deal kicks in - if we remain in the top flight it will be as high as 70m perhaps?

[RevidgeBlue]

Never servicing it, and sometimes lending it to Stevie Wonder for a test drive around the narrow streets of Marseilles.

Or hearing a horrible groaning sound in the engine compartment but ignoring it in the hope you can get away with it for another few months (Tugay) or at a real pinch sending it to a dodgy back street garage and replacing wth non genuine Ferrari parts. (Andrews/Vogel)

[47er]

I suspect that even if we dodge relegation this season - which I seriously doubt - we are merely postponing the inevitable for another twelve months. The Trust are clearly not prepared to invest in the club for if they were they would surely have done it in January. Our very future hangs in the balance and the Trust have sat on their hands during the past month.

I can fully understand that the Walker family don't want to put money into the club because they have no interest in it. Blackburn Rovers was Jack Walker's passion while members of the family are obviously not quite as keen and obviously would want to spend money on things that interest them. However, from a business point of view, I would have thought that some investment was necessary if only to maintain the club as a Premier League outfit in order to try and attract potential buyers. Blackburn Rovers as a Championship club would be unlikely to attract anyone and would surely lose more money than by staying in the Premier League. Attendances will fall dramatically, sponorship and corporate hospitality deals will be harder to find and exposure in the media will shrink even more. I think people are wrong to try to compare the Rovers with Burnley and Preston and suggest that we might do as well as they do on a small budget.

Both our neighbours are much smaller operations. The upkeep of our ground is more expensive, we have a senior training centre to maintain and an Academy. Both Burnley and Preston would spend much less on these areas.

I fear that relegation will see the start of a decline that is similar to that of the late sixties when the club slipped into the Third Division and was virtually bankrupt. The fact that the Trust have not acted in January to avert such a possiblity suggests to me that money is not only tight but is virtually non-existant at Ewood Park.

What gets me is that without Jack the family would have no money either. You'd think they'd take interest in Jack's obsession merely out of respect for his memory. I would in those circumstances. Its not like the wolfs at the door is it?

[JAL]

No money, how about no what does that mean? fans now the glory hunters have disappeared - tossers.

Its embarrassing seeing those empty seats in the Blackburn end lower tier, though a bit of background to it is we have to live with a shambles of a council, a weak and inept MP, the shittest schools in the western world and a white population all desperate to leave the area due to the mass influx of immigrants.

Investment ! things are from very well in the town of Blackburn its declining faster than the titanic.

Its not suprising Darweners want to go on their own and seperate themselves from Blackburn.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Imagine your father had bloody great big dog that he doted on, and in his will he directed that you take the dog and look after it, even though you don't really like dogs.

It eats you out of house and home, sh!ts all over your garden and bit one of the kids. No-one will buy it off you because it's not a fashionable breed and is so expensive to keep. You'd rather spend the money on a trip to Benidorm. But do you stop feeding the dog? Of course not.

The January transfer window convinced me that the Trust have stopped feeding BRFC, somethign which I'd be very surprised was directed in Jack's will or trust deeds.

[patrickvalery]

There is always the alternative view regarding the lack of January spending.

Maybe Allardyce took a look at the squad and genuinely felt he had enough there to keep the club up. I think its now widely accepted that in terms of value for money, January isn't the ideal time to spend. Perhaps he felt what little money he might have at his disposal would be better spent in the summer.

I thought the Ince debacle was ended when it was to prevent him wasting any money in the January window. This being the case, £2.5m which we spent seems an extremely low budget to be deemed risky. I know it is substantial compared to our incomings etc... but i had envisaged a figure of just shy of £5m.

[Boz]

Just a quick note- Rovers earnings were circa 45 million from tv/prize money in the last accountable year a rise of around 20 million from the season before. With the latest TV deal this will rise to circa 50 million for a 17th place finish.

Furthermore the reported 7m profit if before transfer dealings. So in reality Rovers have probably made a 12-14 million pound profit. Without any owner investment.

No this is not correct.

In the year to June 08, the club had an operating profit of £6.6m.

We then had the cost of borrowing of £1.6m (something which in my opinion seems rather high, which I would appreciate our Maltesse friend's comments upon).

We had a profit of £5.8m on the disposal of players, less £7.8m amortisation (application of players' costs over their length of contract) of players.

Leaving a £3m profit to offset against the £114m losses brought forward.

The Chairman does not anticipate a profit in 08/09, as turnover is expected to fall, due to a 7th place being unlikely and the number of tv appearances.

The trust loaned £3m BRFC which they anticpitare repaying £1m in 08/09, £1m in 09/10 and the balance thereafter.

[Sysagent]

Maybe Allardyce took a look at the squad and genuinely felt he had enough there to keep the club up.

I don't believe this for a moment...

Sams no dummy, he knew we needed to strengthen key areas in the squad (read midfield), Christ sakes even we knew this just as fans!

I think that he is now appreciating the situation that Messr's Hughes & Ince found themselves in... This being, that it is easier to get blood out of a stone than it is to get a drip of investment into the squad from the Trustees, I just hope somehow he can conjure up some magic and keep us up this season with what little resources he has to his disposal.

I think the crunch time for us was the past transfer window when Santa didn't get sold, I think Sam was hoping that some of this money could have propped us up some this half of the season and then look over the Summer for further foundations for his squad. Unfortunately as we all know the cat n mouse game didn't pay off and we ended up with one solid left sided defender (?) on a 6 month loan, when really we needed a right sided midfielder at the very least.

Yes on reflection I think Mr Allardyce has now got a full appreciation of the state of play Rovers is in and is not at all happy with it like the two managers proceeding him, troubling times for us Rover's fans, troubling times.

[thenodrog]

Sam.............. "I think that he is now appreciating the situation that Messr's Hughes & Ince found themselves in"...

I'm not sure 'appreciating' is quite the correct verb.

[67splitscreen]

A poster on another MB, is saying his source has told him Rovers took out an 8.2m loan from Barclays, just a few days after the window closed.

Strange, can anyone shed any light on this speculation, except for the fact it's probably bull....

Would have thought if we needed money that bad, RSC would have gone for sure.

Surely not that much has changed that we need such a loan.

[Kelbo]

I think you are being very disrespectful to Sam!!

Sam will have established the situation before coming to Rovers, he stated from the onset he would keep Santa Cruz,

if he had have wanted the cash, he would have sold him and used the cash, he had a plan if the cash reached a certain level,

however, it didnt and Sam made two decent signings.

We are not scoring goals, we can look at midfield etc over and over again, but we are not converting the chances we are creating, maybe one will go in and then we will get a deluge, it does happen in football!!

[waggy]

No money, how about no what does that mean? fans now the glory hunters have disappeared - tossers.

Its embarrassing seeing those empty seats in the Blackburn end lower tier, though a bit of background to it is we have to live with a shambles of a council, a weak and inept MP, the shittest schools in the western world and a white population all desperate to leave the area due to the mass influx of immigrants.

Investment ! things are from very well in the town of Blackburn its declining faster than the titanic.

Its not suprising Darweners want to go on their own and seperate themselves from Blackburn.

if we did not sign wallies like spit the dog,it might stop people from not going

[nellybc]

he may well be a wally but he looked the most likely to make something happen in the second half on saturday

[thenodrog]

We have reduced the ST prices massively without increasing attendance figures enough to cover that cost. I said it was not a good idea at the time but was heavily outnumbered. We cannot hope to fill our ground and match our rivals with merchandising / sponsorship / corporate revenue, so I guess an inability to compete financially had to be expected. Not difficult to work out is it?

But the money 'lost' by reducing ticket prices wouldn't be anywhere near enough to make a difference in the current transfer market. A couple of million quid here and there won't buy and pay the wages of a couple of really good players and even the £7M profit mentioned above isn't close to what would be needed.

Yes, 'skint' is relative, relative to many other clubs with a lot more cash either through big gates, wealthy investors or both. We haven't got and have no prospect of getting either so we need to be realistic in our expectations.

We support a small town club with a limited fan base and we need to get used to the fact that we're going to struggle to stay in the top division, let alone compete in it. We've been lucky that Mark Hughes was able to work miracles with a limited team on a tight budget but that's not always possible and we're now seeing that.

I do know where you are coming from brightonrover but JW's comments in the LT interview concurs largely with my point .......

"It is the size of gates and the amounts other clubs charge that is the crux of the matter. That is the real point of disadvantage for Rovers. We have been reducing prices for a long time, so whilst they are not recession proof, they are very competitive. If you looked at our pricing structure and Championship clubs pricing structure you would be unable to notice who the Premier League club are and that makes our product good value for money. But we have Premier League expenses. But if that is all supporters will pay, you have to adjust to your market accordingly.

There has always been a counter view that if we were to lower our prices even further we would fill the ground and have a fantastic atmosphere, sell more goods etc. It doesn’t work, you can’t make the numbers stack up."

No matter how long we can defy gravity, no matter what fanciful dreams and schemes we come up with and no matter what spin we care to use at the end of the day NO ONE has been able to offer anything constructive other than myopic knee jerk criticism to Lancasshire United. Unless there is another Uncle Jack around the corner we are destined to ultimately sink to our natural level in English football. This entire area from Greater Manchester to the Scottish border deserves better.

Cue another load of ridicule and criticism with no intelligent alternative offered other than 'Well I for one would never go again'.......

[tonyoz]

No matter how long we can defy gravity, no matter what fanciful dreams and schemes we come up with and no matter what spin we care to use at the end of the day NO ONE has been able to offer anything constructive other than myopic knee jerk criticism to Lancasshire United. Unless there is another Uncle Jack around the corner we are destined to ultimately sink to our natural level in English football. This entire area from Greater Manchester to the Scottish border deserves better.

Cue another load of ridicule and criticism with no intelligent alternative offered other than 'Well I for one would never go again'.......

No more blue and white halves?

No more Ewood Park?

No more squeaky bum seasons?

No more pride in our history?

No more Blackburn Rovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All sacrificed in a misguided attempt to become one of the Premier League's BIG clubs. Well that doesn't interest me. If I wanted to affiliate myself to guaranteed long-term success, I'd buy a season ticket to Old Trafford. Ugh! that is inconceivable..............but so is switching alliance to some soulless Lancashire conglomerate.

Of course we are in a bad situation right now but reading the article in the LT today, I have faith in JW; he is realistic and ambitious and I think very capable. I like being the underdog anyway - and much as I was impressed with Burnley's recent cup run, I don't want to share an away coach with their supporters.

We have been punching above our weight for a number of seasons now and I believe that we have a manager (and chairman) who can consolidate that achievement. That's where I'm putting my hopes anyway.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

There is always the alternative view regarding the lack of January spending.

Maybe Allardyce took a look at the squad and genuinely felt he had enough there to keep the club up. I think its now widely accepted that in terms of value for money, January isn't the ideal time to spend. Perhaps he felt what little money he might have at his disposal would be better spent in the summer.

I thought the Ince debacle was ended when it was to prevent him wasting any money in the January window. This being the case, £2.5m which we spent seems an extremely low budget to be deemed risky. I know it is substantial compared to our incomings etc... but i had envisaged a figure of just shy of £5m.

I think people forget the best piece of transfer business we did - getting rid of Ince for £££'s - unfortunately it will have taken money out of the transfer pot.

[CAPT KAYOS]

No matter how long we can defy gravity, no matter what fanciful dreams and schemes we come up with and no matter what spin we care to use at the end of the day NO ONE has been able to offer anything constructive other than myopic knee jerk criticism to Lancasshire United.

Did they not?

Think the myopia may have spread to your good self also here Theno - seem to remember quite a few decent responses with good reasoning rather than knee jerk - including a response myself.

If you also remember, as things developed onwards over last season as things where going your 'outlook' with the Lancashire 'model' was indeed possibly the only way things could progress in the scheme of things.

However, you are looking at this in just the above scenario rather than in the full picture and there are other determining factors that would go against it - ie the clubs are already exisiting with tradition and history - if they didn't then yes It would be the solution - but the location /name / colours if it was to be branded now would all fall against it amongst the fans of today and past - it would need to attract a new generation.

[thenodrog]

No more blue and white halves?

No more Ewood Park?

No more squeaky bum seasons?

No more pride in our history?

No more Blackburn Rovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- and much as I was impressed with Burnley's recent cup run, I don't want to share an away coach with their supporters.

We share a town with the descendents of our oldest rivals never mind a coach now and again. That has all been forgotten during the passage of time.

- it would need to attract a new generation.

A point that I have made many times. Unfortunately through stubborness the oldies would rail against it (for railing against it's sake and nowt else mind you ) BUT the kids would embrace it. As long as it keeps em away from MU and Lpool it's a positive.

[philipl]

Yawn 'drog!

Your argument is complete and utter garbage.

Clubs like Rovers and the other small town teams of Lancashire regularly get 15% of their town's population through the gates because of town pride and close proximity/convenience for going to games. Rovers have the highest percentage of their gates (85%) living within five miles of the ground in the Premiership.

Even if you suspend Lanky Utd on a ground over the M65 somewhere you are not going to replicate that conveniencve and for sure you are going to lose all the civic pride.

What is the average attendance for Lancashire CC Championship games?

Newcastle, embodiment of the Geordie nation attract 10% of the city's population and perhaps 6% of the population of the natural hinterland.

The two Manc clubs similarly pick up 10% between them of the Manc population. Knock off the Cockney scum and that drops to 5% no doubt.

Go to London and add all the average gates together of all the clubs there and they come to about 3.5% of the population.

So Lanky Utd with no history and a sense of total mutual antipathy between the component supporters would attract at best 5% of the north Lancashire population to start off- if you are lucky- in other words would have a smaller support base than the Rovers do on their own.

It really is a complete and utter non-starter compared with an all out effort by people like you to attract asian support to Rovers.

[chocky]

Quiite right phillipl..I think the gates for Rovers are great for the size of the town. I still maintain that Jack Walker was badly advised as to the size of the new stadium and the projected attendances was overestimated. I think the the stadium should have been built with four new stands but a capcity of 25,000 would have been more realistic. But getting 20,000 out every week is a credit to Blackburn..Especially as it is not a glamour club attracting die hard glory hunters...

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Some characteristic ignorant stereotyping there Drog, nothing new?

[philipl]

Some characteristic ignorant stereotyping there Drog, nothing new?

Yes, shows how shallow he thinks about things. The fact his Lanky United thing is just a silly little wind-up is demonstrated by how he rose to that little teaser from me rather than attempt to support his pet subject.

[Blackburn Ender]

There's a huge amount of money coming into Rovers' coffers.

Enough to make the gate money/merchandise income, etc, irrelevant.

We simply need to reduce the wage bill.

Now, I don't know how this can be done and still retain Premiership status. But, it's got to be the way forward. Other clubs could/should follow.

And, from a PR point of view, the players and agents can't argue or they all end up looking as stupid and greedy as Ashley Cole di.

There's some smart business brains out there (not at the banks, obviously) who should be able to work out how.