[Archived] Why Do We Have No Money

[tucker]

There's a huge amount of money coming into Rovers' coffers.

Enough to make the gate money/merchandise income, etc, irrelevant.

We simply need to reduce the wage bill.

Now, I don't know how this can be done and still retain Premiership status. But, it's got to be the way forward. Other clubs could/should follow.

And, from a PR point of view, the players and agents can't argue or they all end up looking as stupid and greedy as Ashley Cole di.

There's some smart business brains out there (not at the banks, obviously) who should be able to work out how.

But Football players are already - or at least percieved to be - stupid and greedy, so I would have thought they will be able to take anymore flak that would come there way.

Also, what about the clubs who don't care about a spiralling wage bill, how will you get them to play ball when there agendas are already quite clear.

[PAFELL]

There's a huge amount of money coming into Rovers' coffers.

Enough to make the gate money/merchandise income, etc, irrelevant.

We simply need to reduce the wage bill.

Now, I don't know how this can be done and still retain Premiership status. But, it's got to be the way forward. Other clubs could/should follow.

And, from a PR point of view, the players and agents can't argue or they all end up looking as stupid and greedy as Ashley Cole di.

There's some smart business brains out there (not at the banks, obviously) who should be able to work out how.

Good post. I wrote on another thread that now is the right time to raise this issue and somehow, via Gordon Taylor who I believe runs the players union, demand that players take a voluntary pay cut in order to keep football clubs going.

[thenodrog]

Yes, shows how shallow he thinks about things. The fact his Lanky United thing is just a silly little wind-up is demonstrated by how he rose to that little teaser from me rather than attempt to support his pet subject.

Shallow thinker eh? This coming from the Old Lar de Dar Gunner Graham who now with the benefit of hindsight professes that Ince was a complete and utter waste of space YET at the time actually accompanied Paul Ince's tenure like some love struck teenager pulling petals of a daisy.......... I love him..... I love him not..... I love him ....... I love him not.....

Kinell!

[CrazyIvan]

Shallow thinker eh? This coming from the Old Lar de Dar Gunner Graham who now with the benefit of hindsight professes that Ince was a complete and utter waste of space YET at the time actually accompanied Paul Ince's tenure like some love struck teenager pulling petals of a daisy.......... I love him..... I love him not..... I love him ....... I love him not.....

Kinell!

Quality :D

[philipl]

Very odd.

I doubt that 80% of the Rovers supporters ever felt differently to the way I did.

- deeply sceptical when Ince was appointed

- concerned when stories of player rebellions emerged

- delighted by the odd wins we achieved

- despairing of Ince's inability/stupidity on transfers

- wanting him out when it was obvious he was failing totally

Sadly the club persevered with Ince at least four games too long as it painfully obvious from the way Spurs and Newcastle went on good runs and still did not get away from the relegation zone that it would be a long hard journey for Rovers as well. We needed to be on that journey sooner than we were.

[gumboots]

Very odd.

I doubt that 80% of the Rovers supporters ever felt differently to the way I did.

- deeply sceptical when Ince was appointed

- concerned when stories of player rebellions emerged

- delighted by the odd wins we achieved

- despairing of Ince's inability/stupidity on transfers

- wanting him out when it was obvious he was failing totally

Sadly the club persevered with Ince at least four games too long as it painfully obvious from the way Spurs and Newcastle went on good runs and still did not get away from the relegation zone that it would be a long hard journey for Rovers as well. We needed to be on that journey sooner than we were.

think that sums it up pretty well. for me it was the second half against Sunderland that showed Ince had lost any credibility he may have had. I wanted him to succeed and was delighted with some of the results. By the time it came to wigan it was too late. He should have gone that couple of games before.

[T4E]

Shallow thinker eh? This coming from the Old Lar de Dar Gunner Graham who now with the benefit of hindsight professes that Ince was a complete and utter waste of space YET at the time actually accompanied Paul Ince's tenure like some love struck teenager pulling petals of a daisy.......... I love him..... I love him not..... I love him ....... I love him not.....

Kinell!

Almost as good as the "desperate male version of Shirley bloody Valentine!" rant.

Sadly the club persevered with Ince at least four games too long as it painfully obvious from the way Spurs and Newcastle went on good runs and still did not get away from the relegation zone that it would be a long hard journey for Rovers as well.

In fairness this is an excellent point.

[CrazyIvan]

think that sums it up pretty well. for me it was the second half against Sunderland that showed Ince had lost any credibility he may have had. I wanted him to succeed and was delighted with some of the results. By the time it came to wigan it was too late. He should have gone that couple of games before.

Me too. Sunderland second half was the turning of the tide.

[DeadlyDirk]

Very odd.

I doubt that 80% of the Rovers supporters ever felt differently to the way I did.

- deeply sceptical when Ince was appointed

- concerned when stories of player rebellions emerged

- delighted by the odd wins we achieved

- despairing of Ince's inability/stupidity on transfers

- wanting him out when it was obvious he was failing totally

Sadly the club persevered with Ince at least four games too long as it painfully obvious from the way Spurs and Newcastle went on good runs and still did not get away from the relegation zone that it would be a long hard journey for Rovers as well. We needed to be on that journey sooner than we were.

I can't argue with any of those comments, I was in support of Ince initially like I would be any manager but we waited too long, 12 points to play for could make all the difference, even 9 or 6, 3 would have been a help!!

I don't think his transfers were that bad though in all honesty, questionable at times.

Bentley we could argue over until were blue in the face, there were a lot of fans who thought after his comments he had to go (Looking at our figures now, although Arsenal took a lot, we probably needed the money too.)

Friedel/Robinson - Mixed reports over the reason Friedel left, money, ambition, length contract have all been mentioned but there were a few reports that Ince thought he was past it and wanted Robinson anyway, hopefully that's not the case. Robinson may not be as good as Friedel but for the price age and experience he was a decent buy.

Andrews - Seemed odd but for the price we paid he has been a decent squad player that we could sell for at least what we bought him for if not a profit.

Villanueva - Hasn't worked out but you can't argue we were all excited about him and I don't feel his Rovers career is over quite yet for definite.

Simpson - A cheap loan, worth a shot, again not worked out greatly but for the money available what better could we have got?

Grella - Initially he looked like he could be a good purchase, sadly his lack of pace and injuries are beginning to show he probably isn't good enough. He would be the major question mark for me considering he cost around £4 million.

Bunn - Cheap, looks decent, good potential, no problems.

Have I missed anyone? My major gripe I guess though wouldn't be with the players he brought in, just that he stuggled to get the balance of players we needed right, like the right hand side for example.

[CrazyIvan]

I can't argue with any of those comments, I was in support of Ince initially like I would be any manager but we waited too long, 12 points to play for could make all the difference, even 9 or 6, 3 would have been a help!!

I don't think his transfers were that bad though in all honesty, questionable at times.

Bentley we could argue over until were blue in the face, there were a lot of fans who thought after his comments he had to go (Looking at our figures now, although Arsenal took a lot, we probably needed the money too.)

Friedel/Robinson - Mixed reports over the reason Friedel left, money, ambition, length contract have all been mentioned but there were a few reports that Ince thought he was past it and wanted Robinson anyway, hopefully that's not the case. Robinson may not be as good as Friedel but for the price age and experience he was a decent buy.

Andrews - Seemed odd but for the price we paid he has been a decent squad player that we could sell for at least what we bought him for if not a profit.

Villanueva - Hasn't worked out but you can't argue we were all excited about him and I don't feel his Rovers career is over quite yet for definite.

Simpson - A cheap loan, worth a shot, again not worked out greatly but for the money available what better could we have got?

Grella - Initially he looked like he could be a good purchase, sadly his lack of pace and injuries are beginning to show he probably isn't good enough. He would be the major question mark for me considering he cost around £4 million.

Bunn - Cheap, looks decent, good potential, no problems.

Have I missed anyone? My major gripe I guess though wouldn't be with the players he brought in, just that he stuggled to get the balance of players we needed right, like the right hand side for example.

Just Blobby Fowler... An unmitigated disaster.

[thenodrog]

By the time it came to wigan it was too late. He should have gone that couple of games before.

JW should have taken note, his stubborness in pursuing a lost cause could prove to be devastating .........

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=652460

[ABBEY]

We share a town with the descendents of our oldest rivals never mind a coach now and again. That has all been forgotten during the passage of time.

A point that I have made many times. Unfortunately through stubborness the oldies would rail against it (for railing against it's sake and nowt else mind you ) BUT the kids would embrace it. As long as it keeps em away from MU and Lpool it's a positive.

over my dead body...told my little lad about lancashire utd and he said hed rather be a man u fan than share with the dingles and willywipes.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

This coming from the Old Lar de Dar Gunner Graham who now with the benefit of hindsight professes that Ince was a complete and utter waste of space YET at the time actually accompanied Paul Ince's tenure like some love struck teenager pulling petals of a daisy.......... I love him..... I love him not..... I love him ....... I love him not.

Kinell!

It's interesting to note Gordon that our friend Philip went from a position in May 2008 of being "horrified" at the prospect of Paul Ince at Ewood, to the following month in June when he said: "I'll enthusiastically back Ince if he comes through the field."

I am so relieved we avoided Dowie although I was very in favour when the Rovers job was open. Ince has a similar reputation and I'd be horrified to see him at Ewood.

I'd enthusiastically back either Ince or Martinez if either of them come through the field.

In June 2008, Philip was very impressed with Ince at his first Rovers press conference:

I thought the Ince press conference tape reflected very well on Ince, JW and the club.

Very pleased to hear his public commitment to try to keep Bentley and all his best players at the club.

A week earlier Philip compared Ince with Mark Hughes and suggested that Ince would be just as effective as Hughes in his working relationship with John Williams.

What Ince achieved at Macclesfield and MK Dons was nothing short of amazing.

Ince's club record is at least the equal of Hughes': Mancs, Barca and Chelsea v Mancs, Inter and Red Scousers. Both were hugely respected as players by the people around them and hated by their opponents.

I don't see why Ince would be any less of a draw than Hughes or less effective in working alongside JW- JW has presumably picked him with that in mind.

There was further praise for Ince from Philip in September....

There are signs that Ince is producing a more attractive and attacking football game than Hughes did.

I am finally beginning to warm to Paul Ince.

It is great to see the commitment at closing the opposition down and pressing from the front when we don't have possession and the passing when we have had the ball ourselves has been really sweet and lovely to watch.

However, as they say Gordon, the course of true love never runs smooth....

The following month and Philip was critical again....

Everyone can see that Mark Hughes has that aura which instills respect.

Ince is a very different kettle of fish. He doesn't come over with the same authority and sense of purpose

In November, Philip wanted Ince out....

It is increasingly looking like Ince is completely and utterly out of his depth managing at Rovers, a club which he has no respect for, and we need to get rid sooner rather than later.

As well as pulling the petals of a daisy - I love him..... I love him not..... I love him .... I love him not - apparently Philip has been having a bit of a sing-song too.

The Philip Hockey Cockey...

You put your right arm in

You put your right arm out

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about.

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around.

That’s what its all about!

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh, the Hokey Cokey

Ince in, Ince out, ra! ra! ra!

You say that Fowler is fab,

Then Fowler is crap,

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about.

You do the Philip u-turn

And you turn around.

That’s what it’s all about!

You say we've got big money,

Then we've got no dosh

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about,

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around

That's what it's all about

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh, the Hokey Cokey

Ince in, Ince out, ra! ra! ra!

You say 'I'm warming to Ince'

The next day you're not,

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around

That's what it's all about

You say United are going bust,

Then the next day they're not,

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about,

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around.

That’s what it’s all about.

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh, the Hokey Cokey

Ince in, Ince out, ra! ra! ra!

....................................................

Back on topic - 'Why do we have no money'?

I blame the board and the trustees....

[Eddie]

My god you scare me.

Either you have way too much time and compile these list of quotes after the event when you need them, which is impressive commitment, but sad. Or, even more worryingly, you may keep some sort of running file.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

I noticed last year that there seemed to be a dichotomy in terms of Philip's position on certain issues.

From being "horrified" by Ince, to enthusiastically backing him, then hating him again. It all seemed a bit strange to me and that's why I made a note of the quotes.

I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but from Day One - indeed before Day One - I was implacably opposed to Paul Ince becoming Rovers manager, believing that he would be a complete disaster for our club.

Several others on the board - Thenodrog, Tugay4England, Jan, for example - had the same consistent view that Ince was a disaster waiting to happen.

The inept and arrogant Mr Ince has put our Premiership future on the line. I pray that we'll avoid relegation, but thanks to six months of shambles from Ince, we've got a major battle to survive on our hands over the next 14 games.

Wait till I dig out my file on you Eddie. I've got some gems there....

[Bazzanotsogreat]

My god you scare me.

Either you have way too much time and compile these list of quotes after the event when you need them, which is impressive commitment, but sad. Or, even more worryingly, you may keep some sort of running file.

Nearly as much time as someone with 14,000 + posts. Pip although He is obviously intelligent, yet changes his mind like no other, then is first to ridicule & criticise an opinion he has probably already personally held.

Back to the matter at hand: American’s post on the Oakland franchise, is an excellent model for us to follow. Why pay out 25K a week for squad players- who will play a dozen games a season- when there is the option to either use our own reserve/academy players or youngsters from the continent. Surely the likes of Kish, Vogel, Moekena etc can be replaced with equal quality but on half the wages?

For example teams such as Genoa, Palermo & Calgari in Seria A & Malaga, Valladolid in La Lga will have smaller wage bills than ourselves ( considerably in most examples) yet they all in the top ten of there respective leagues. We as a premier league club need to take advantage of the financial dominance of the premier league.

[T4E]

It's interesting to note Gordon that our friend Philip went from a position in May 2008 of being "horrified" at the prospect of Paul Ince at Ewood, to the following month in June when he said: "I'll enthusiastically back Ince if he comes through the field."

In June 2008, Philip was very impressed with Ince at his first Rovers press conference:

A week earlier Philip compared Ince with Mark Hughes and suggested that Ince would be just as effective as Hughes in his working relationship with John Williams.

There was further praise for Ince from Philip in September....

However, as they say Gordon, the course of true love never runs smooth....

The following month and Philip was critical again....

In November, Philip wanted Ince out....

As well as pulling the petals of a daisy - I love him..... I love him not..... I love him .... I love him not - apparently Philip has been having a bit of a sing-song too.

The Philip Hockey Cockey...

You put your right arm in

You put your right arm out

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about.

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around.

That’s what its all about!

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh, the Hokey Cokey

Ince in, Ince out, ra! ra! ra!

You say that Fowler is fab,

Then Fowler is crap,

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about.

You do the Philip u-turn

And you turn around.

That’s what it’s all about!

You say we've got big money,

Then we've got no dosh

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about,

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around

That's what it's all about

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh, the Hokey Cokey

Ince in, Ince out, ra! ra! ra!

You say 'I'm warming to Ince'

The next day you're not,

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around

That's what it's all about

You say United are going bust,

Then the next day they're not,

Ince in, Ince out, shake it all about,

You do the Philip shuffle

And you turn around.

That’s what it’s all about.

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh the Hokey Cokey

Oh, oh, the Hokey Cokey

Ince in, Ince out, ra! ra! ra!

....................................................

Back on topic - 'Why do we have no money'?

I blame the board and the trustees....

I've run out of superlatives to describe your posts Smithy. Quite marvellous

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Anybody else find themselves singing along?

One for the Riverside against Coventry?

[philipl]

I don't know whether to be flattered or aghast but I'll just leave it at gobsmacked that both thenodrog and anti smiths euro fan have gone to such trouble in finding my old quotes.

Reading the tenor of them, once again I doubt my position differed very much from that of 80% of the clubs' supporters AT THE TIMES the posts were made.

I am really pleased you found this one:

QUOTE (philipl @ Jun 25 2008, 05:17 ) *

Very pleased to hear his public commitment to try to keep Bentley and all his best players at the club.

Ince did dramatically shift his position on that one!

Very few people have the luxury of taking fixed positions and never ever changing their minds.

Not only do circumstances and people change, so does the information that is available at any given time. In the early days, Ince's team did play with a freedom and enthusiasm which had been missing at the end of Hughes' time, but Arsenal found it out as having no systematic backbone and by October so had the rest of the Premier League and Ince had absolutely no answer. By that time I had also become privy to an awful lot of information about the total shambles that had been going on and what was still going on behind the scenes at Rovers.

JW changed his mind about Paul Ince and thank goodness he did or else we wouldn't yet have much more than 13 points.

PS I think I have been pretty consistent about the trouble Liverpool and Man U are heading towards.

[den]

TBH, the attack on Philipl is out of order. More like a personal vendetta.

[SouthAussieRover]

TBH, the attack on Philipl is out of order. More like a personal vendetta.

Seems quite normal for this board.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

TBH, the attack on Philipl is out of order. More like a personal vendetta.

Not at all, I think you've misread the tone of it. It was just a bit of facetiousness on my part. Nothing malicious or vindictive towards Philip from my point of view. Certainly no personal vendetta.

After all, I've been on the receiving end of quite a few personal attacks of late.

I've never described, or indeed thought of Philip as an "idiot", a "prat" or a "berk" - as I've been called this year.

AESF, you're an idiot. Plain and simple.

You're a prat.

You really are a berk at times.

Those are examples of direct personal attacks Den. I hope that you would condemn them.

Anyway, back on topic....

Paffle / Prof.

Fans such as yourselves probably think that the investment from the Trust should have escalated in line with the rest of the inflation in the game - driven by transfer fees and wages, and those media deals.

I think that's a legitimate point of view to hold. I clearly remember Robert Coar, the then Rovers chairman, saying during the 1997/98 season, that Jack Walker wants European football every season

I think if Jack was still alive now, and if he still indeed wanted European football every season, he would recognise that the current levels of investment/transfer expenditure are not enough to consistently compete for Europe every year.

I have the gut feeling (although I obviously cannot prove this) that if Jack were still alive today he would be inclined to invest more this year than just a £3m loan, which is what the trustees are currently doing.

Anyway, looking at the time, 11.30pm, it's time for me to start getting ready for bed soon. So goodnight ladies and gentlemen and please be assured that there was no maliciousness or vindictiveness on my part towards Philip. No personal vendetta at all.

I've just got a different posting style to the norm, something which I don't think Den (and certain others) have ever been a fan of....

[RevidgeBlue]

TBH, the attack on Philipl is out of order. More like a personal vendetta.

Nothing wrong at all with what AESF said about Philip at all imo, and certainly less vitriolic than philip's view on many other posters at various times.

Philip changes his opinion more often than the prevailing wind direction to coincide with the general consensus on the m/b at any particular time.

[philipl]

Nothing wrong at all with what AESF said about Philip at all imo, and certainly less vitriolic than philip's view on many other posters at various times.

Philip changes his opinion more often than the prevailing wind direction to coincide with the general consensus on the m/b at any particular time.

Now that I do take objection to as it simply isn't true.

[thenodrog]

Maybe time for some to look in a mirror!

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Except me of course!