[Archived] Why Do We Have No Money

[doctorryan]

Thank you Philip for at the very least not accusing me of disregarding the locals or inferring that they weren't doing their best. It would seem that you read entire posts and understood their points. If however, I'm incorrect, feel free to slam me for being presumptuous. And I agree with your point about solutions. There are none because the Trust is finished helping as far as we can tell. It as if we were one of those cartoon characters tied to a spit over a boiling kettle.

[LeChuck]

If anyone thinks we're bad for having a moan, this really takes the biscuit: Southgate defends chairman Gibson.

I can't believe any Middlesbrough could begin to question Gibson's input into the club. I really am amazed. Wasn't only 12 months ago he was paying £12 million (or whatever it was) for Afonso Alves? I thought the general conscientious was that he's the best chairman in football? Must only be a view held outside of Middlesbrough.

Puts our moans into perspective anyway.

[T4E]

What's a "jagoff"?

[thenodrog]

What's a "jagoff"?

It's a rather unpopular person from Pittsburgh apparently.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jagoff

Don't worry I don't think we've any jagoffs on here..... We'll just have to make do with a few plain old tossers!

[CrazyIvan]

It's a rather unpopular person from Pittsburgh apparently.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jagoff

Don't worry I don't think we've any jagoffs on here..... We'll just have to make do with a few plain old tossers!

Not 'from' Pittsburgh but it's 'Pittsburghese' for an ar@ehole. Careful because I used to live there...

[Billy Castell]

Suppose I had better move along since I am not a 'real' fan as I am not local enough for the Tubbs and Edward brigade, and have not been to a match for 10 years due to having other smaller issues such as moving about the country and having no money. I even have the audacity to be born in London! What a cheek! And to think I don't buy the entire kit as I hate nylon and think it is vastly overpriced for something of such low quality. Tsk, I should go and support some team like Spurs!

Sorry, but it annoys me when some here say they're a better fan because they have been born in what is now the Jack Walker Stand, remember seeing a match in 1911, and have never left that part of Lancashire to live somewhere else. I'd go to every match if I lived in the Blackburn area, had money etc.

The reason that we have no money, fans or whatever is that Blackburn, like many towns in the country is a poverty stricken dump that has suffered in this post-industrial area. That, and we have not marketed ourself as 'the team for those who want to be different'.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Suppose I had better move along since I am not a 'real' fan as I am not local enough for the Tubbs and Edward brigade, and have not been to a match for 10 years due to having other smaller issues such as moving about the country and having no money. I even have the audacity to be born in London! What a cheek! And to think I don't buy the entire kit as I hate nylon and think it is vastly overpriced for something of such low quality. Tsk, I should go and support some team like Spurs!

Sorry, but it annoys me when some here say they're a better fan because they have been born in what is now the Jack Walker Stand, remember seeing a match in 1911, and have never left that part of Lancashire to live somewhere else. I'd go to every match if I lived in the Blackburn area, had money etc.

The reason that we have no money, fans or whatever is that Blackburn, like many towns in the country is a poverty stricken dump that has suffered in this post-industrial area. That, and we have not marketed ourself as 'the team for those who want to be different'.

Are you from the Blackburn Tourism Board or something?

[OscarRaven]

Sorry, but it annoys me when some here say they're a better fan because they have been born in what is now the Jack Walker Stand, remember seeing a match in 1911, and have never left that part of Lancashire to live somewhere else. I'd go to every match if I lived in the Blackburn area, had money etc.

I'm sure your posting from an internet cafe, so pointing out that a rovers season ticket is cheaper than most computers would be pointless.

You sound like a fan I won't question that but your certainly not a supporter. There seems to be some misconception that 'following' a team on sky, radio or teletext makes you a supporter - it doesn't. Going to the ground and being part of the sport and contrubuting directly to the club (ie not via sky) makes you a supporter.

Those people who follow the club home and away season after season are the best supporters. If you don't go (for whatever reason - hate big sam, money, distance) your not as good a supporter - just accept it.

Blackburn Supporters can be found at Ewood Park and other grounds at which the Rovers team play. Blackburn fans can be found all over the world.

[TimmyJimmy]

Like you lot I'm very passionate about the Rovers but right now it's beginning to dawn on me that this passion has blinded me to a few things which need to be sorted. I hate hearing negative things spouted about the club and usually oppose them on principle but this thing about the owners and the lack of financial backing is beginning to irk even me. Welcome to planet Earth you might say, where've you been. When I hear the Chairman talking about the lack of backing, when I hear journos like A. Nixon saying "...with the owners also cutting back on their support and looking for a buyer", when you see the obvious need to strengthen the team in midfield and yet we don't even take players on LOAN because we can't risk the extra wages, then it's time for me to wake up. Why do we have no money asks the thread well I now agree that's it's the scandalous interpretation of Jack's last wishes by the Trustees. How could they ever imagine that Jack wouldn't have signed a few loan players in January given the very real danger of us falling off the radar for good. How does it make any sense to look to flog the club for a good price by hobbling our ability to compete. How is ending up in the Championship going to help any sale. It's time they realise that they are not there to be good accountants and good lawyers and good corporate governance people they are there to administer someone else's money, money made by a guy who had one passion, Rovers. What gives them the right to p*ss all over the guys wishes. It probably all makes good business sense but I confess it's beyond me. I'm staying positive and we will stay up this season but then it's time for some serious conversations with that lot!

[thenodrog]

Like you lot I'm very passionate about the Rovers but right now it's beginning to dawn on me that this passion has blinded me to a few things which need to be sorted. I hate hearing negative things spouted about the club and usually oppose them on principle but this thing about the owners and the lack of financial backing is beginning to irk even me. Welcome to planet Earth you might say, where've you been. When I hear the Chairman talking about the lack of backing, when I hear journos like A. Nixon saying "...with the owners also cutting back on their support and looking for a buyer", when you see the obvious need to strengthen the team in midfield and yet we don't even take players on LOAN because we can't risk the extra wages, then it's time for me to wake up. Why do we have no money asks the thread well I now agree that's it's the scandalous interpretation of Jack's last wishes by the Trustees. How could they ever imagine that Jack wouldn't have signed a few loan players in January given the very real danger of us falling off the radar for good. How does it make any sense to look to flog the club for a good price by hobbling our ability to compete. How is ending up in the Championship going to help any sale. It's time they realise that they are not there to be good accountants and good lawyers and good corporate governance people they are there to administer someone else's money, money made by a guy who had one passion, Rovers. What gives them the right to p*ss all over the guys wishes. It probably all makes good business sense but I confess it's beyond me. I'm staying positive and we will stay up this season but then it's time for some serious conversations with that lot!

Two huge changes have dramatically changed the situation since Jack Walker's dream of Blackburn Rovers competing regularly in the top division was realised.

1.Bosman and freedom of contract.

2. The huge increase in media funding giving every club Blackburns spending power.

It is much more difficult to see Prem football for a poorly supported club as an investment that could actually make money. Jack would surely agree too.

[TimmyJimmy]

Two huge changes have dramatically changed the situation since Jack Walker's dream of Blackburn Rovers competing regularly in the top division was realised.

1.Bosman and freedom of contract.

2. The huge increase in media funding giving every club Blackburns spending power.

It is much more difficult to see Prem football for a poorly supported club as an investment that could actually make money. Jack would surely agree too.

You're right of course but in some senses that's only half the argument. Blackburn is a small town, with the demographic changes it probably always will be in football terms. But as the world changes around us our club hasn't, maybe it's time. Jack's vision of us competing at the highest level doesn't have to be tied into the size of the town. The trustees are negligent in my opinion for not exploring the possibilities available in the modern world and again in my opinion that's because it would take some up front investment, something the tight-wads won't even think about. This is the era of the brand and not the era of the town team. So why aren't we building a brand. Why don't they think the impossible, maybe something as radical as dropping the name Blackburn and rebranding as simple The Rovers. A lot of supporters don't even come from the town these days but from Darwen, Accy, Chorley etc. The area cannot support so many pro teams and not many rival supporters would switch to 'Blackburn' Rovers - but Rovers - you never know. It needs PR and brand building and that needs money. One of our greatest assets for instance is our kit, it's unique and admired - kind of thing Hackett would make a fortune from. If you're right and the future audience is going to be a mainly worldwide TV audience then surely we have to brand and get some of that merchandising cash. Someone said on this board a few days ago (can't remember who - sorry) something like we could push an image of being the club for the non conformist supporter. Seems like a decent brand image to me, let's go the whole hog and push even wild, wacky, even alternative (seems you have to be wild and wacky to support the Rovers). There are loads of top brands out there that have gone that route, Apple, Lamborghini, MTV, Google to name a few and didn't do them much harm. ManU and Chelsea caught on to the brand idea ages ago why not us. What do we have to lose except a slow lingering football extinction at the hands of the Trustees. I'm not advocating any particular 'cure', this stuff may be utter rubbish for all I know but that's not the point. The point is there IS a solution out there and the Trustees aren't thinking about it other than 'we want out let's sell'. In my view Jack's dream was to turn us into something special and this bunch of cowboys brought the whole thing to juddering halt by a lack of imagination and an almost pathological fear of spending. If their one big idea is to get a sale then turning the transfer fund tap off is guaranteed NOT to help. That was the thrust of my post. These pencil sharpeners are killing the dream. Jack and his brother had the kind of vision it takes. Walker Steel was created from very little cash and a lot of imagination and hard work. As you can tell, I'm a bit cross.

[mode_m]

I'm sure your posting from an internet cafe, so pointing out that a rovers season ticket is cheaper than most computers would be pointless.

You sound like a fan I won't question that but your certainly not a supporter. There seems to be some misconception that 'following' a team on sky, radio or teletext makes you a supporter - it doesn't. Going to the ground and being part of the sport and contrubuting directly to the club (ie not via sky) makes you a supporter.

Those people who follow the club home and away season after season are the best supporters. If you don't go (for whatever reason - hate big sam, money, distance) your not as good a supporter - just accept it.

Blackburn Supporters can be found at Ewood Park and other grounds at which the Rovers team play. Blackburn fans can be found all over the world.

The big question is, why alienate a steadily decreasing fanbase?

[thenodrog]

You're right of course but in some senses that's only half the argument. Blackburn is a small town, with the demographic changes it probably always will be in football terms. But as the world changes around us our club hasn't, maybe it's time. Jack's vision of us competing at the highest level doesn't have to be tied into the size of the town. The trustees are negligent in my opinion for not exploring the possibilities available in the modern world and again in my opinion that's because it would take some up front investment, something the tight-wads won't even think about. This is the era of the brand and not the era of the town team. So why aren't we building a brand. Why don't they think the impossible, maybe something as radical as dropping the name Blackburn and rebranding as simple The Rovers. A lot of supporters don't even come from the town these days but from Darwen, Accy, Chorley etc. The area cannot support so many pro teams and not many rival supporters would switch to 'Blackburn' Rovers - but Rovers - you never know. It needs PR and brand building and that needs money. One of our greatest assets for instance is our kit, it's unique and admired - kind of thing Hackett would make a fortune from. If you're right and the future audience is going to be a mainly worldwide TV audience then surely we have to brand and get some of that merchandising cash. Someone said on this board a few days ago (can't remember who - sorry) something like we could push an image of being the club for the non conformist supporter. Seems like a decent brand image to me, let's go the whole hog and push even wild, wacky, even alternative (seems you have to be wild and wacky to support the Rovers). There are loads of top brands out there that have gone that route, Apple, Lamborghini, MTV, Google to name a few and didn't do them much harm. ManU and Chelsea caught on to the brand idea ages ago why not us. What do we have to lose except a slow lingering football extinction at the hands of the Trustees. I'm not advocating any particular 'cure', this stuff may be utter rubbish for all I know but that's not the point. The point is there IS a solution out there and the Trustees aren't thinking about it other than 'we want out let's sell'. In my view Jack's dream was to turn us into something special and this bunch of cowboys brought the whole thing to juddering halt by a lack of imagination and an almost pathological fear of spending. If their one big idea is to get a sale then turning the transfer fund tap off is guaranteed NOT to help. That was the thrust of my post. These pencil sharpeners are killing the dream. Jack and his brother had the kind of vision it takes. Walker Steel was created from very little cash and a lot of imagination and hard work. As you can tell, I'm a bit cross.

Careful you'll upset the natives...... and thats my job!

Do you not realise that alternative thinking on this board is frowned upon by our football luddites?

Just a thought but if just 30% of the £3m pa that has been withdrawn had been spent on marketing it would have been a damned site more rewarding than the money wasted on the likes of Robbie Fowler.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

"I don't want to sell my best players, but we're a selling club," says Sam Allardyce.

Big Sam told the media today: "If Stephen Warnock goes we lose our best defender, our player of the year and our most consistent player last year." In a downbeat interview today, Allardyce said: "I never want to sell my best players, but we're a selling club."

It's been apparent to me for quite a few years now that we're a selling club. That's the depressing reality, though there are perhaps some fans more positive me than me who like to believe the soothing words of our chairman John Willams who attempts to put a brave face on our dire lack of funds by claiming that we don't have to sell our best players.

If you look back since 2003 and see all of our best players that have been sold:

Duff - sold.

Bellamy - sold. (The Welsh brat lied to fans that there was no clause in his contract. Even if there hadn't been a clause, I'm sure that by now he would have been sold.)

Friedel - sold.

Bentley - sold.

Santa Cruz - sold

Do you notice a pattern here ? It looks now as if our player of the year for last season, Stephen Warnock, is also likely to be sold. If any of our players has a good season this year and plays really well, don't get excited folks. He'll almost inevitably be sold in the future as well. Sadly we don't keep our best players anymore.

As Allardyce said today: "This club has no longer got the money that it used to have. The club has reverted back to what it was before in it's history and that is a small town club which has to make it's way by selling it's best players. I want to keep Stephen but it doesn't look as if that's going to be the case."

I'm afraid that the Jersey Boys are simply not prepared to put the expenditure into the club which would mean we didn't have to sell our best players.

The Jersey Boys no longer want to own the club and are happy for us to be a selling club - with a transfer surplus in terms of sales, rather than having net expenditure on players, or even just breaking even.

Any optimistic Rovers fans who thought that all of the £17m money we got for Santa Cruz would be available for Sam Allardyce to spend, I'm afraid got it wrong.

Anyone who thought: "Allardyce kept us up and saved us £40m from going down. Hopefully he'll get a few quid to spend in the summer on top of sales", I'm afraid got it wrong.

A glance at the table below between 2003 to 2008 makes depressing reading and clearly shows that we don't break even in terms of transfers. We sell considerably more than we buy.

Obviously since that table was compiled Man City have pushed to the top alongside Chelsea, while Rovers would still be at the bottom - possibly alongside Portsmouth who have sold many of their best players in the last year.

I hate the phrase "punching above our weight" as it implies we shouldn't strive to be ambitious, but the fact is that our rivals in the middle of the table - teams like Bolton, Sunderland and Fulham are all spending a lot more on players than we are - and eventually I fear it's going to catch up on us.

It's not a question of being unable to compete with the likes of Chelsea, Man United, Man City and Liverpool - at the moment we can't compete with some of the smaller teams around us in terms of transfer expenditure.

I daresay we're already back to the bad old days of "Premiership survival is the main thing." Graeme Souness got a lot of stick for saying that his main aim at the start of the season was to survive and I fear we are now going back to those days.

I'm not the biggest fan in the world of Mr Allardyce - but to be fair he did keep us up last year, having inherited a dire situation in the relegation zone from his inept predecessor. If Paul Ince had remained in charge of Rovers for the whole of last season I'm convinced that we would have been relegated. Ince and the men who appointed him would have been to blame.

Big Sam played some unattractive football last season - I suppose beggars can't be choosers - but Allardyce is the man who admits he walked out on Bolton because he wanted to spend more money in the transfer market. So if in a year or two's time Mr Allardyce walks out on Rovers to join another club, because he's fed up with having to sell his best players, then I suppose we are back to square one again.

With such a pitiful lack of expenditure on quality players, it's eventually going to catch up on us. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear all of the time.

Before he became rather arrogant and rushed into the arms of the disgraced Thaksin Shinawatra, Mark Hughes did a good job for us and spoke positively about wanting to compete in Europe. I sense at Rovers now there's a growing realisation that we're a million miles away from being a top six club at the moment.

The phrase "survival is the main aim" will I fear become more commonly mentioned at Rovers over the coming years until such a time as we eventually lose our place in the Premier League due to insufficient financial expenditure in the transfer market.

I'm afraid that's the depressing reality.

[joey_big_nose]

Hard to argue with that Mr Smith.

Probs our best bet is that others suffer financial difficulties to level the playing field somewhat - which is already happening to be fair (Portsmouth, the top four not spendng that much). We live well within our means, others have chosen not too. This could lead to opportunities for us to compete.

Otherwise we are just going to have to be clever with our money as we have been for six years now. We are bloody good at it.

[thenodrog]

"I don't want to sell my best players, but we're a selling club," says Sam Allardyce.

Big Sam told the media today: "If Stephen Warnock goes we lose our best defender, our player of the year and our most consistent player last year." In a downbeat interview today, Allardyce said: "I never want to sell my best players, but we're a selling club."

It's been apparent to me for quite a few years now that we're a selling club. That's the depressing reality, though there are perhaps some fans more positive me than me who like to believe the soothing words of our chairman John Willams who attempts to put a brave face on our dire lack of funds by claiming that we don't have to sell our best players.

If you look back since 2003 and see all of our best players that have been sold:

Duff - sold.

Bellamy - sold. (The Welsh brat lied to fans that there was no clause in his contract. Even if there hadn't been a clause, I'm sure that by now he would have been sold.)

Friedel - sold.

Bentley - sold.

Santa Cruz - sold

Do you notice a pattern here ? It looks now as if our player of the year for last season, Stephen Warnock, is also likely to be sold. If any of our players has a good season this year and plays really well, don't get excited folks. He'll almost inevitably be sold in the future as well. Sadly we don't keep our best players anymore.

As Allardyce said today: "This club has no longer got the money that it used to have. The club has reverted back to what it was before in it's history and that is a small town club which has to make it's way by selling it's best players. I want to keep Stephen but it doesn't look as if that's going to be the case."

I'm afraid that the Jersey Boys are simply not prepared to put the expenditure into the club which would mean we didn't have to sell our best players.

The Jersey Boys no longer want to own the club and are happy for us to be a selling club - with a transfer surplus in terms of sales, rather than having net expenditure on players, or even just breaking even.

Any optimistic Rovers fans who thought that all of the £17m money we got for Santa Cruz would be available for Sam Allardyce to spend, I'm afraid got it wrong.

Anyone who thought: "Allardyce kept us up and saved us £40m from going down. Hopefully he'll get a few quid to spend in the summer on top of sales", I'm afraid got it wrong.

A glance at the table below between 2003 to 2008 makes depressing reading and clearly shows that we don't break even in terms of transfers. We sell considerably more than we buy.

Obviously since that table was compiled Man City have pushed to the top alongside Chelsea, while Rovers would still be at the bottom - possibly alongside Portsmouth who have sold many of their best players in the last year.

I hate the phrase "punching above our weight" as it implies we shouldn't strive to be ambitious, but the fact is that our rivals in the middle of the table - teams like Bolton, Sunderland and Fulham are all spending a lot more on players than we are - and eventually I fear it's going to catch up on us.

It's not a question of being unable to compete with the likes of Chelsea, Man United, Man City and Liverpool - at the moment we can't compete with some of the smaller teams around us in terms of transfer expenditure.

I daresay we're already back to the bad old days of "Premiership survival is the main thing." Graeme Souness got a lot of stick for saying that his main aim at the start of the season was to survive and I fear we are now going back to those days.

I'm not the biggest fan in the world of Mr Allardyce - but to be fair he did keep us up last year, having inherited a dire situation in the relegation zone from his inept predecessor. If Paul Ince had remained in charge of Rovers for the whole of last season I'm convinced that we would have been relegated. Ince and the men who appointed him would have been to blame.

Big Sam played some unattractive football last season - I suppose beggars can't be choosers - but Allardyce is the man who admits he walked out on Bolton because he wanted to spend more money in the transfer market. So if in a year or two's time Mr Allardyce walks out on Rovers to join another club, because he's fed up with having to sell his best players, then I suppose we are back to square one again.

With such a pitiful lack of expenditure on quality players, it's eventually going to catch up on us. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear all of the time.

Before he became rather arrogant and rushed into the arms of the disgraced Thaksin Shinawatra, Mark Hughes did a good job for us and spoke positively about wanting to compete in Europe. I sense at Rovers now there's a growing realisation that we're a million miles away from being a top six club at the moment.

The phrase "survival is the main aim" will I fear become more commonly mentioned at Rovers over the coming years until such a time as we eventually lose our place in the Premier League due to insufficient financial expenditure in the transfer market.

I'm afraid that's the depressing reality.

Twas ever thus smithy......... apart from the 90's.

Anyway I guess Jack Walker diverted money from the Walker empire to invest in BRFC so now that the Walker Empire is not performing well it's only fair for some to go back isn't it? No doubt a lot of their businesses will be getting the hard word on finances just like BRFC is. We do not exist in a bubble.

[Mr. E]

I am sorry but BFS is quite a bit off his mind if he believes Warnock is our best defender. He creates a few good attacks and often works hard, but premiership wingers or attackers who can't dribble right past him are few. He has been an infinite goal-source for the opposition, and what worries me more is not losing him but that BFS isn't looking for the right qualities in a player.

[Kelbo]

I am sorry but BFS is quite a bit off his mind if he believes Warnock is our best defender. He creates a few good attacks and often works hard, but premiership wingers or attackers who can't dribble right past him are few. He has been an infinite goal-source for the opposition, and what worries me more is not losing him but that BFS isn't looking for the right qualities in a player.

Oh dear!!!

That is not a good post at all!!

[spencey7]

Fantastic post Anti Euro Smiths Fan.

I just don't get this though, the television money alone is worth almost £30m per year to each club. We can't possibly be operating at that much of a loss.

[Mr. E]

Oh dear!!!

That is not a good post at all!!

No one who has watched our games can claim that Warnock is our best defender. It's absolutely absurd.

[thenodrog]

I am sorry but BFS is quite a bit off his mind if he believes Warnock is our best defender. He creates a few good attacks and often works hard, but premiership wingers or attackers who can't dribble right past him are few. He has been an infinite goal-source for the opposition, and what worries me more is not losing him but that BFS isn't looking for the right qualities in a player.

Don't be daft! It's not Sam that thinks that.... it's MoN.

[DeadlyDirk]

No one who has watched our games can claim that Warnock is our best defender. It's absolutely absurd.

Sam isn't a complete idiot though, what's he meant to say? "He's only an average player, quite happy to get rid really". That'll push his price up and persuade that irish git to pay over the odds I'm sure!

[Exiled_Rover]

Fantastic post Anti Euro Smiths Fan.

I just don't get this though, the television money alone is worth almost £30m per year to each club. We can't possibly be operating at that much of a loss.

Sadly the majority of that goes straight into the pockets of the players.

[den]

Put this in the Sam Allardyce topic, but it might have been the wrong place:

Agreed John, things aren't going his way, I understand that. I think I feel let down because I've always thought of Sam as a highly intelligent man who does everything he does for a reason. If there was a reason for acting that way today then I'm really struggling to see it.

Some will say he was only telling the truth. Some will say he's trying to get the cash he wants from the trustees. Some [me included] will say it was totally unnecessary and will only make it even more difficult for him to attract the quality of player that we all want to see.

Apart from that, his statements are lies. We were a small town club with no money when in the lower divisions. At this moment in time we are a Premier League club with an income far outstripping those clubs that are still at that level. League position can still generate millions of pounds on top of the guaranteed PL riches.

Our problems IMO, stem from having owners who simply want rid. I'm not just talking about the trustees lack of investment causing the problem, - I'm talking about the simple fact that the lack of ambition from the top people is bound to reflect throughout the whole club. Does anyone really believe that one single employee at Ewood Park, from the car park attendant, - to the players, - to JW, is comfortable with the ongoing deadlock in ownership? I can't believe for one moment that JW's wishes would have seen this happen - no investment and no sale. Until that is sorted, we can only go backwards. The trustees must either invest or sell - and as quickly as possible.

[thenodrog]

Sadly the majority of that goes straight into the pockets of the players.

And if Sky doubled the money then twice as much would go to the players. The more money that is thrown on the Prem fire the faster it burns. It's a mad house and one that would not wish to invest in.