[Archived] Why Do We Have No Money

[Eddie]

Bazza is correct, our owners are now of no use to us. The whole argument for why they are so "loved" is that they provide a safety net, it would seem to me that they are removing any of that pretty quickly.

[philipl]

Bazza is correct, our owners are now of no use to us. The whole argument for why they are so "loved" is that they provide a safety net, it would seem to me that they are removing any of that pretty quickly.

Cough Dan Williams choke Chris Ronnie vomit

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Cough Dan Williams choke Chris Ronnie vomit

If that’s the best argument you can put forward in our “beloved trusts” defence- then imo it is case closed in favour of the prosecution

[The Prof.]

Well some points

- I can appreciate the board making provisions if we go down. They would have duty to do this anyway.

- I can appreciate we might have to sell to buy. If Uncle Jack was alive now he would not be able to put enough money into the club to compete with the big clubs anyway. He didn't/doesn't/wouldn't have that kind of money then and would'nt have now. £3.3m for Shearer then = £80m for Ronaldo today. Jack didn't put £80m into the club although we'll be approaching that with our £3m per year that used to be put in (does that make any real difference now? RSC's wages would eat that up)

- I can appreciate that football is proving a big money pit these days. Anyone with any sense or without an oil well is looking to get out. We are up for sale.

- What I can't appreciate is the large number of players we now have contributing to a stupidly high wage bill, this is the real mis-management at the club. We have 11 midfielders for example and not one could be said to be a quality, reliable weekly starter. (for goodness sake Andrews a workmanlike yet fit division 1 player is still probably first on the teamsheet!)

- I also can't appreciate that someone moots selling someone and they suddenly become Rovers greatest asset. RSC is on a pile, doesn't play much, doesn't score much and we collect £17m , loose a big wage - yet people suddenly see him as the greatest forward in the league. Warnock is a left back who can't defend, we collect £7m, it cuts the wage bill and the crying on here starts as he is suddenly remembered as Englands greatest fringe left back!!! and the hand wringing about replacements starts. The difference in the transfers hasn't gone into The Walker Brothers pockets - it's in our beloved players pockets as wages.

Those sold have been replaced! It's good business. Now get rid of a few others who can't or won't play, or don't make the level, and look for one or two quality players we've heard of.

-

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Oh dear, got out of bed the wrong side today?

Go back and read the thread. You will notice that I contradict the article and recognise the numbers to be 2006/7 season.

The simple issue was that at June 2009, Rovers debt was the equivalent of two seasons' total income in the second level excluding parachute payments. Any responsible board of a club that has started out the season in 18th place would sort that out pronto whilst they could.

Hmm .. but I think you yourself have previously advocated the speculate to accumulate approach (based on placing). Do you think the board have just given up - too many rich owners to keep up with ? Though I appreciate we should be as debt free as possible - the best way to get into further debt is to either get relegated (worst case) or drop even more places down the league. The apparent current policy makes either of these scenarios increasingly likely. I partially agreed with the club paying off debts with the Rocky money - but after paying off a chunk of the debt - the whole of the SW money should be made available to SA (remember he said losing SW would be like losing two players). I am just hoping that the club are playing their cards close to their chest - and pull a rabbit out of the hat before the transfer deadline.

[beerwins]

Hmm .. but I think you yourself have previously advocated the speculate to accumulate approach (based on placing). Do you think the board have just given up - too many rich owners to keep up with ? Though I appreciate we should be as debt free as possible - the best way to get into further debt is to either get relegated (worst case) or drop even more places down the league. The apparent current policy makes either of these scenarios increasingly likely. I partially agreed with the club paying off debts with the Rocky money - but after paying off a chunk of the debt - the whole of the SW money should be made available to SA (remember he said losing SW would be like losing two players). I am just hoping that the club are playing their cards close to their chest - and pull a rabbit out of the hat before the transfer deadline.

Indeed why should we be looking this way , why the hell should we be near to going down? there are so many clubs that are going before us, wolves, brum, bumley, stoke, pompey, hull, all certains before us, we should keep a bit of brass and push on.

We seem to be taking the small club attitude which hasnt stopped us in the past why should it now.

[JAL]

Come the end of Tuesday will the club have reduced the wage bill by £5m thats the question.

If not then it hasnt been a successful transfer window has it.

[Stuart]

Indeed why should we be looking this way , why the hell should we be near to going down? there are so many clubs that are going before us, wolves, brum, bumley, stoke, pompey, hull, all certains before us, we should keep a bit of brass and push on.

We seem to be taking the small club attitude which hasnt stopped us in the past why should it now.

I'll be very surprised if Birmingham or Stoke go down. That leaves Pompey, Hull and Burnley, and I would add possibly Bolton. It's going to be tight.

We have always been a small club but I don't think we have previously (since the Premier League) had a small club attitude to the extent we seem to have now. Whether that's because of the last couple of managers' attitudes towards the club or not, I'm not sure.

[American]

I'd be shocked if Hull go down after their signings this summer.

[laughatthedingles]

The reason we have no money is that the club has been running itself on the last penny for the last few seasons and last season made them really see what it would have been like had they gone down, I am talking more leeds than charlton as well. Therefore coupled with the fact they realised spending around 75% of your turnover on wages (which is in the top 5 in the leage) is ridiculous, and they decided to reduce costs by around £50,000 a week or £2,600,000 a year and get rid of the bank debt, which was at around £13,000,000 and add to this the lost revenue in places which they had budgeted for (around £3,000,000) and you have around £16,000,000 this year which they wanted to reduce/remove.

The comes the maths:

Stephen Warnock +£7,000,000 & £35,000pw

Paul Gallagher + £750,000 & £15,000pw

Nick Blackman + £4,000pw for 5months

Alex Marrow + £350pw for 5 months

Gavin Gunning + £350pw for 5 months

Alan Judge + £2,000pw for 5 months

Mark Bunn + £4,000pw for 5 months

Keith Treacy + £7,000pw for 5 months

Josh O'Keefe + £350pw

Roque Santa Cruz + £17,000,000 & £50,000pw

Matt Derbyshire + £3,500,000 & £20,000pw

Jamie Clarke +£350pw

Dean Winnard +£350pw

Aaron Mokoena + £20,000pw

Andre Ooijer + £35,000pw

Tony Kane + £350pw

Tugay + £10,000pw

Pascal Chimbonda -£1,500,00 & £35,000pw

Michel Salgado - £40,000pw

Nikola Kalinic - £6,500,000 & £35,000pw

Franco Di Santo -£25,000pw for 5 months

Steven N'Zonzi - £500,000 & £7,000pw

Elrio van Heerden - £7,000 pw

Lars Jacobsen - £20,000pw

Gael Givet - £3,500,000 & £35,000pw

Bank Balance =

£250,000

Wages Balance =

Still -£50,000 so take that off the bank balance and we are still around £2,500,000 away from where we want to be, yes the money could be used, but is it worth risking our clubs life when we should still be safe, IF we looked in major trouble, or Big Sam thought we didnt have enough to survive then money vs risk would be reassessed.

Factor in Andrews' improved contract and your looking at us being around £12,000pw worse off this year.

[tonygreenbank]

Like the touch of the red ink, latd, but where do you get those figures from? Are they in the public domain? I know JW reads this board and has said that he laughs sometimes at the misinformation on here especially with regard to wages. If your figures are correct then the aim of cutting back the wage bill by £5m has failed.

[laughatthedingles]

wages are all educated guesses with some informed info helping some and others (mainly at the lower end just based on relativity) if anything, its got worse, not better.

[philipl]

I believe the incoming wages are roughly right- perhaps light by £10k a week overall.

The outgoing wages are definitely light. 18 out of 56 football staff gone including the top wage earner accounting for £9m out of £46m spent.

I think the wages saved figure is understated by around £30k a week.

Even so the overall conclusion is 100% correct. Wages are still higher than the cub is targeting for even though the transfer fees net brought in are appreciably higher than I believe Rovers planned for when the window opened.

[The Prof.]

I still CAN'T EVEN ENVISAGE the salaries above.

£35,000 a WEEK!

That's £350,000 for 10 weeks,

£3.5MILLION, M-I-L-L-I-O-N,

for 50 weeks it's £1,750,000

For a YEAR £1,820,000 For WORKING PART TIME IN BLACKBURN!!!

You don't see £1,820,000pa in the Telegraph every evening do you.

And I'm scratting to get a season ticket for me and junior at £300.

Easy to get disillusion with football isn't it?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

And I'm scratting to get a season ticket for me and junior at £300.

Easy to get disillusion with football isn't it?

Yes it is Prof,its in hard times like these that obscene player wages really hit home hard for the average working class lad or lass.

But yet still the football fans roll up in their thousands............

[American]

I believe the incoming wages are roughly right- perhaps light by £10k a week overall.

The outgoing wages are definitely light. 18 out of 56 football staff gone including the top wage earner accounting for £9m out of £46m spent.

I think the wages saved figure is understated by around £30k a week.

Even so the overall conclusion is 100% correct. Wages are still higher than the cub is targeting for even though the transfer fees net brought in are appreciably higher than I believe Rovers planned for when the window opened.

You believe, but unless you work in the finance department of the club, you don't know. Please stop trying to make it sound like you do, especially in light of JWs comments about guesses being way off.

[Bobby G]

You cant believe that Tugay was only on 10k?

[Stuart]

Not sure if it's been posted anywhere but, as a heads-up, according to yesterday's LT, they are running an interview piece with John Williams in Monday's LT (tomorrow).

According to the preview teaser, they are going to ask him the big questions, such as where has all the money gone?

I doubt we'll be happy with the answer but it should be an interesting read - and it's some comment from the club at least.

[JAL]

Not sure if it's been posted anywhere but, as a heads-up, according to yesterday's LT, they are running an interview piece with John Williams in Monday's LT (tomorrow).

According to the preview teaser, they are going to ask him the big questions, such as where has all the money gone?

I doubt we'll be happy with the answer but it should be an interesting read - and it's some comment from the club at least.

Should be an interesting read, looking forward to it.

Hoping it tells us alot and that its not too negative.

Off topic whoever picked the knitwear in the Rovers store needs councelling 'jumpers for tramps' not befitting a premiership club.

[den]

Maybe they will put this post from an LT reader, to JW:

Santa -18m

Derbs - 3m

Gally 1m

Warnock 8m

= £30m

.

Givet 3.5m

Kalinic 6m

Chimbonda 1.5m

= £11m

.

£30m - £11m = 19m diff

.

2008 -

Bentley 18m (less 5m to Arsenal) 13m

Brad 3m

Hughes and Team -5m comp.

= £21m

.

Grella 3m

Robbo 3m

Andrews 1m

Diouf 1m

= £8m

.

£21m -£8m = £13m gain.

.

= £32m gain over 12 months.

Plus big wages shifted (you missed Vallanueve) and replaced by lower wages.

[tony gale's mic]

Those figures are a little off den - if you're counting Hughes compo you have to count Ince compo. Brad was £2m, plus we've signed more players than you've listed which will eat up funds too...and then there's the season ticket initiative. But I do agree with the sentiment of your post.

[den]

They aren't my figures TGM and I agree they are not exact. They can't be a million miles away though, can they?

[tony gale's mic]

Yeah my guess is that we were closer to £8m gain in 2008 and £15m gain this year. You do have to wonder where its all gone though, definitely.

[jim mk2]

Players' wages and the trustees' trousers - it's not difficult to work out.

[thenodrog]

They aren't my figures TGM and I agree they are not exact. They can't be a million miles away though, can they?

Point is does it matter? Especially when one considers the current crippling debt situations at so many other Prem clubs. Viewed in that respect and with our support and income it's something for the board to be congratulated for. Isn't it?