[Archived] Keegan Newcastle Manager!

[tony gale's mic]

I'm sad that so many of you have so little faith in Hughes that you assume he wanted the Newcastle job just because he refused to say that he didn't. Must be the guilty until proven innocent culture we live in nowadays....

I actually agree with Bryan to be honest but I'm against any notion that Hughes was set to leave us for Newcastle with the "proof" that's available at the moment.

tony gale's mic who are these managers ruling themselves out everytime a job comes up? As I remember the only person who offically ruled themselves out of the Newcastle job was Harry Redknapp and that only after he'd been offered it.

Every time a job comes up there are noises from several managers saying they wouldn't be interested. Gerard Houllier ruled himself out for the Newcastle, who else was in the running? I can't remember now. But name me one manager who didnt rule themselves out who wasn't interested in the job.

ambiguously no - perhaps.

yes - never remotelycrossed his lips.

unambiguously critical of the guy who makes the decisions about the Newcastle job - undoubtedly,

Of course 'yes' isn't going to cross his lips though is it? His employers were Blackburn, how many managers who have subsequently jumped ship have come out saying they'd love the job?

And he wasn't deeply critical, he was probably saying that if he was to join Newcastle it would be on his own terms. But that doesn't mean he wasn't interested.

You could end the speculation by saying right here and right now that you want to stay and you don't want to go to Newcastle.

"That's a hypothetical question and I don't answer hypothetical questions.

If it's in your hands, will you still be the Blackburn Rovers manager at the end of the season?

"It's not in my hands, is it? It's in my chairman's hands and thank God we won today.

"I've got a good club here, I'm proud to be Blackburn Rovers' manager. In football you can never say."

But if the choice was yours, would you still be at Blackburn at the end of the season?

"The choice, whether or not it's mine, the chairman's or whatever, sometimes things get taken out of your hands.

"I'm just very proud to be Blackburn Rovers' manager.

"It's not easy working with the speculation surrounding your position but maybe it's better to have good speculation rather than speculation about your job and that you might be losing it.

"Out of both, I know which one I would choose."

Come on, you must be a bit deluded if you think he wasn't interested in joining Newcastle.

[philipl]

You had to cast your net a very long way to find Houllier whom if I remember correctly said he wasn't interested after his boss in the French Federation said something that could have been interpreted as "don't think you are ever getting a job in France again if you walk out on this one".

You are the one who is deluded supporting the statement which triggered this argument. You have agreed with me "yes" never crossed his lips and even in your interpretation he would only move on his own terms which pretty obviously were a million miles removed from those of Mike Ashley whom he so publicly disagreed with over the calibre of BFS and the time he was given at Newcastle.

I am sure Sparky lies awake at night fantasising how wonderful it would be to have Dennis Wise as his Director of Football, two other non-tracksuit footballing experts recruited at mega salaries by the club's owner within a week of his appointment and having Alan Shearer scrutinising his every move.

[T4E]

There's one way to settle this disagreement, let's ask Mark Hughes....

You really are unbelievable.

[tony gale's mic]

You had to cast your net a very long way to find Houllier whom if I remember correctly said he wasn't interested after his boss in the French Federation said something that could have been interpreted as "don't think you are ever getting a job in France again if you walk out on this one".

I don't think going to Houllier is casting the net very wide at all, he was one of the bookies' favourites until that denial got issued. Most of the names heavily speculated by the media were people who were likely to be interested in taking over. There was Harry Redknapp, who was sufficiently interested to talk to Newcastle, Shearer who wasn't wanted as they wanted someone with experience, Hughes, who else was there?

You are the one who is deluded supporting the statement which triggered this argument. You have agreed with me "yes" never crossed his lips and even in your interpretation he would only move on his own terms which pretty obviously were a million miles removed from those of Mike Ashley whom he so publicly disagreed with over the calibre of BFS and the time he was given at Newcastle.

If these terms were so obviously a million miles away from his own, then why didn't he issue a proper denial? When asked straight up, he said 'that's a hypothetical question'. If that's the same as him saying he wasnt interested then we must speak a very different language.

He didn't 'so publicly disagree with the calibre of BFS and the time he was given at Newcastle'. That is a massive overstatement on your part. Yes he said he should have had more time, but that didn't mean that he wouldnt have wanted the job himself. It's not like he launched into a scathing attack on Ashley and the way he ran the club was it? If he did 'so publicly disagree' with Ashley surely it wouldn't have been much more of a stretch to say he plain didn't want the job? He outright refused to say that.

He didn't say 'yes' but you seem to be missing the point entirely. How many managers who have ended up jumping ship have said they would like to leave the club for a vacancy? Pretty much zero, unless they knew they were guaranteed a job at the other club and even then they'd probably have the grace to be a bit diplomatic. Why would he weaken and undermine his position with Rovers for a job he didnt know whether he was going to get offered or not? The fact he never said 'yes' to the media means precisely nothing.

I am sure Sparky lies awake at night fantasising how wonderful it would be to have Dennis Wise as his Director of Football, two other non-tracksuit footballing experts recruited at mega salaries by the club's owner within a week of his appointment and having Alan Shearer scrutinising his every move.

And once again you miss the point. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and now he's probably quite relieved he didn't join that club. But he didn't know things would pan out this way when the vacancy was made available, and for him bigger club + more money + the opportunity and challenge to finally bring some form of success to them clearly was of interest to him.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

In some ways, it gives me great pleasure to see how much Newcastle are paying Michael Owen

According to a report in Nicko's favourite paper, Newcastle have also lost £5 million on a failed casino scheme, paid £1.1m in compensation to Glenn Roeder even though the club claimed that he "resigned" and overall Newcastle made a loss of £32.9 million in 2007 and have one of the highest wage bills in the Premiership at £62.5 million.

LINK

Have all of you forgotten that horribly awkward interview after the Bolton (i think) game when he was struggling to get the words out for a response?

I haven't....

Mark Hughes did seem to be quite hesitant to say the least when he was struggling to find the right words to say about the Newcastle managerial vacancy.

To view a video of that interview again. which came up after Rovers' 2-1 win over Bolton last month (the Newcastle question pops up about halfway through the interview), click on the link below and then click on the "Interview: Blackburn manager" link a few paragraphs down from the top.

LINK

[Ewood and I Would]

Every time a job comes up there are noises from several managers saying they wouldn't be interested. Gerard Houllier ruled himself out for the Newcastle, who else was in the running? I can't remember now. But name me one manager who didnt rule themselves out who wasn't interested in the job.

That's twice you've said about managers ruling themselves all the time out without naming one. You mention Gerard Houllier but that was the director of the French FA that ruled him out if I remember correctly. And it was after he was interviewed for the job (if you believe nicko's report they were meeting on the morning the denial came out). Wasn't Deschamps linked at one point and I can't remember him ruling himself out either.

Who else was in the running? Well only Mike Ashley knows that but of course in your world the candidates aren't decided by Newcastle but by the media. Besides, if you go by who the bookies were giving odds on you had people like Steve Coppell in there, can't remember any one ruling themselves out.

I can't name you a manager that didn't rule himself out who wasn't interested because unfortunately I'm not psychic but I won't assume they were willing Ashley to give them a call just because they didn't phone The Mirror to condemn the Newcastle board.

Of course 'yes' isn't going to cross his lips though is it? His employers were Blackburn, how many managers who have subsequently jumped ship have come out saying they'd love the job?

A lot less than the amount of managers linked with jobs, not said anything, and have stayed with their clubs.

And he wasn't deeply critical, he was probably saying that if he was to join Newcastle it would be on his own terms. But that doesn't mean he wasn't interested.

Come on, you must be a bit deluded if you think he wasn't interested in joining Newcastle.

Until Hughes writes his autobiography I'll guess we'll never know. Sorry if that's a boring answer but speculation certainly won't provide you with an accurate answer.

You could end the speculation by saying right here and right now that you want to stay and you don't want to go to Newcastle.

"That's a hypothetical question and I don't answer hypothetical questions.

If it's in your hands, will you still be the Blackburn Rovers manager at the end of the season?

"It's not in my hands, is it? It's in my chairman's hands and thank God we won today.

"I've got a good club here, I'm proud to be Blackburn Rovers' manager. In football you can never say."

But if the choice was yours, would you still be at Blackburn at the end of the season?

"The choice, whether or not it's mine, the chairman's or whatever, sometimes things get taken out of your hands.

"I'm just very proud to be Blackburn Rovers' manager.

"It's not easy working with the speculation surrounding your position but maybe it's better to have good speculation rather than speculation about your job and that you might be losing it.

"Out of both, I know which one I would choose."

Come on, you must be a bit deluded if you think he wasn't interested in joining Newcastle.

You always want to see the negative it seems, glass half empty eh? When Hughes slated the Newcastle regime in an interview you see it as him saying "he'll go there but on his terms" and again here.

Q1) The speculation was not of his making and therefore not for him to answer. He admitted this week that it may have been a mistake to have stayed silent or is that another interview you've seen the negative in too?

Q2) "It's not in my hands, is it? It's in my chairman's hands" - Is that not the same as saying I'll be here as long as I don't get sacked? Ergo, I'm staying unless I get the push...

Q3) ###### off at being asked Q2 again.....

I also find it very interested you've cherry-picked that interveiw and missed this out especially:

You said you were poor but happy, to sum it up, on Friday. Is that still the case?

"Yes. Listen, I've got a job to do here. Speculation has surrounded me when other vacancies have appeared but I'm still the Blackburn Rovers manager.

"I've got a good situation here and I'm very conscious of that.

"All I'm trying to do is do the job to the best of my ability, along with the rest of my staff, and that's all I can do.

"Speculation isn't something that I try to generate; I'm not in to self-promotion, it just happens as a consequence of being a professional football manager, and there's not a lot I can do about it.

You have the take the interview as a whole otherwise you only provide false context.

I don't think going to Houllier is casting the net very wide at all, he was one of the bookies' favourites until that denial got issued. Most of the names heavily speculated by the media were people who were likely to be interested in taking over. There was Harry Redknapp, who was sufficiently interested to talk to Newcastle, Shearer who wasn't wanted as they wanted someone with experience, Hughes, who else was there?

Based on what? Is it by any chance the presumption that all managers want go to clubs that are seen by the media as "big clubs"? That sentence is pure speculation and carries no evidential weight at all.

If these terms were so obviously a million miles away from his own, then why didn't he issue a proper denial? When asked straight up, he said 'that's a hypothetical question'. If that's the same as him saying he wasnt interested then we must speak a very different language.

I can't speak for philipl but my argument isn't that he definately wasn't interested; it's that there isnt enough evidence to accuse him of the opposite.

He didn't 'so publicly disagree with the calibre of BFS and the time he was given at Newcastle'. That is a massive overstatement on your part. Yes he said he should have had more time, but that didn't mean that he wouldnt have wanted the job himself. It's not like he launched into a scathing attack on Ashley and the way he ran the club was it? If he did 'so publicly disagree' with Ashley surely it wouldn't have been much more of a stretch to say he plain didn't want the job? He outright refused to say that.

Hughes launched an attack on Ashley in terms of what you can get away with in football interviews without being plain rude, yes. Has Hughes ever really laid into anyone in football or is he usually quiet and reletively composed?

He didn't say 'yes' but you seem to be missing the point entirely. How many managers who have ended up jumping ship have said they would like to leave the club for a vacancy? Pretty much zero, unless they knew they were guaranteed a job at the other club and even then they'd probably have the grace to be a bit diplomatic. Why would he weaken and undermine his position with Rovers for a job he didnt know whether he was going to get offered or not? The fact he never said 'yes' to the media means precisely nothing.

Again, just because there have been managers who have moved without previously declaring their desire to, it doesn't neccessarily follow that all the managers who have stayed without ruling themselves out when linked all wanted to move.

Tony, your argument seems to rely on three things. That everyone not at a big 4 club would love the Newcastle job (based on typical big club ideology), that the media said "he was in the running" so therefore he was by association (and thus had a responsibilty to answer it) and that he didn't say no so therefore that must mean yes. You could be right, but none of those arguments seem water-tight enough to me if you're going to make such a strong assertion.

If this was a criminal case, it would be thrown out for lack of evidence.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Blimey - I thought some of my posts were long....

Relax my friend, and as you say, unless Hughes comes clean in an autobiography or whatever, we won't know for sure. All we can do is speculate and go on a gut feeling.

My own view is that Hughes would have been tempted by the Newcastle job, the bigger salary and the bigger resources available to him in the transfer market. I feel he would have been willing to at least have had talks with the club to see what was on the table.

On the other hand, it's certainly possible that he might have turned the job down after having talks if he didn't like exactly what was on offer. Like Harry Redknapp, Hughes might have been tempted - but ultimately come to the conclusion to stay where he is.

Doubts might have crept in for Hughes about whether it was too big a gamble to go to St James' Park and whether the job might be a "poisoned chalice" - with fans favourite Alan Shearer lurking in the shadows and the Geordie public being very hard to please. Geordies demand results and entertainment and they haven't won a trophy since 1969, which has been a big weight on a lot of managers shoulders.

Even though Freddy Shepherd has gone, Newcastle still seem to have a dodgy owner in Mike Ashley and I feel that Hughes wouldn't have done his long-term managerial prospects much good if he had gone to St James' Park. The crowd might have got on his back early on if results hadn't gone his way - and Hughes might have found himself out of work within less than a year.

In the end, after the reports about Dennis Wise and Chris Hughton being brought to Newcastle without Kevin Keegan's involvement, I feel that Hughes can't be sorry that he's remained at Ewood Park. Ultimately it was better for Hughes to have stayed with Rovers and I'm very pleased that he has.

Sadly one day in the future Hughes is very likely to eventually leave for another club. Hopefully that day is later rather than sooner.

[Flopsy]

Hands up who would join me in laughing very very very hard if the Barcodes got relegated?

And does it make me a bad person?

[American Rover12]

:raises hand: and no, it makes you a great person

[broadsword]

It would be extremely amusing. However, I can't see it happening.

Obviously Derby are long long gone. Fugham have probably had it. So there's only one place to play for.

[philipl]

A quick look at the fixtures ahead and both Reading and Fulham have run-ins that fall rather neatly in the order of matches for mounting great escapes. Previously I thought Fulham would never put together the sort of three game plus winning streak which they need simply to get back in touch but they have the sort of sequence in their remaining games which could deliver it to them.

Wigan, Boro, Sunderland and Brum have enough odd matches which they should get something from that none of them is likely to stop collecting points every so often but equally all of them are unlikely to stop sweating about possible relegation until May comes round.

Newcastle and Bolton on the other hand face rather unpleasant mixes of matches which they will find difficult to build and maintain momentum in. The North East confrontations with Sunderland and Boro in rapid succession are going to be massive for the barcodes.

I'm not saying they are going down but Newcastle and Bolton are both going to have to do it the hard way and countenance the possibility of Fulham resurrecting themselves opening up two relegation slots.

[AlanK]

Both hands waving loud and proud

As for Hughes, of course he wanted to hear what Ashley offered. He may have accepted, he may not. Either way, he is still at Ewood and would never go to St James now having seen what " King Kev " has had to put up with.

[Fife Rover]

Hands up who would join me in laughing very very very hard if the Barcodes got relegated?

And does it make me a bad person?

Well it would certainly deflate their massive ego's, and for that reason alone it would be a very good thing. Shame it simply won't ever happen to a few other clubs that suffer from the same disease.

[philipl]

I would think the emmergency meeting on Tyneside on Sunday evening would have been a treat to have been at.

Ashley demanding reassurances that the barcodes won't be relegated and KK with disarming frankness assuring him that the team is basically rubbish.

[thenodrog]

I would think the emmergency meeting on Tyneside on Sunday evening would have been a treat to have been at.

Ashley demanding reassurances that the barcodes won't be relegated and KK with disarming frankness assuring him that the team is basically rubbish.

I don't think it is. There may well be a bad attitude festering in that team. There is no argument that the defence is certainly rubbish (Bramble's departure actually weakened em! ) but the midfield and strikers are good quality and would do well at other clubs. Smith has always been overated, he has no strong position but is a decent utility player. But whilst he was at Man U no journo would have the balls to say so for fear of incurring the wrath of the old RFW onto himself and his employers.

[herbergeehh]

Bramble's departure weakened ....

[Darwen Rover]

I sincerely hope Newcastle turn it round or at least start getting a few decent results, KK getting chopped wold mean one thing only, Hughes on his way (or at the least unsettled) to Newcastle...

Dont get me wrong MH will go but I'd prefer to keep him for as long as possible.

[gumboots]

I sincerely hope Newcastle turn it round or at least start getting a few decent results, KK getting chopped wold mean one thing only, Hughes on his way (or at the least unsettled) to Newcastle...

Dont get me wrong MH will go but I'd prefer to keep him for as long as possible.

He won't go if Keegan manages to relegate then though so relegation would do 2 things for us removing a "big" club who might take our manager and giving us all a really good laugh into the bargain.

[philipl]

More on the Ashley/KK meeting.

A comment that Hughes won't walk out on Blackburn now but I guess that is just lazy journalism.

[thecomebackid]

More on the Ashley/KK meeting.

A comment that Hughes won't walk out on Blackburn now but I guess that is just lazy journalism.

I presumed 'lazy journalism' was synonymous with the Guardian in general. Have you ever tried reading Gary Young?

[philipl]

I think the Guardian is not outstanding in that regard- neither good nor bad.

Just as I think the "Hughes is on the cusp of leaving" brigade are over the top, I also think "With Hughes now almost certainly unwilling to walk out on Blackburn" might be going too far the other way. Good news if true but the words almost certainly are the give away that it is almost certainly an unresearched opinion.

Ditto the same author's whiff of schadenfreude- I have been amazed at the lack of yah boo sucks directed at Newcastle in the wake of Saturday's victory.

Incidentally, we have been bemused for a long time at the outside world saying what a fantastic player MGP is. The Toon seem to feel the same way about their midfield of Smith and Barton. Whether they will have an MGP-like renaissance before the season end is probably the key to Newcastle staying up or going down.

Final point- having a flutter on KK getting his first win at Anfield might not be a bad idea. Unlikely but more probable than the odds that will be on offer.

[RoyRover]

There is no argument that the defence is certainly rubbish (Bramble's departure actually weakened em! ) but the midfield and strikers are good quality and would do well at other clubs.

I totally agree. The Newcastle defence has been a complete shambles for years. I honestly believe that if it weren't for Shay Given, Newcastle could have been in a worse position than they are now a long time ago. I know that it is his job to stop the ball going in the net, but if Newcastle didn't have arguably the best goalkeeper in the league, who has had to be consistently brilliant, they would be worse off than their present situation. You're right about the midfield and forwards, they are pretty good. I mean if you didn't know that these players were at Newcastle and know the problems they were having and saw a line up of Duff, Butt, Emre / Barton, Milner, Owen, Martins you'd be pretty impressed. There's a serious lack of confidence in the side, with too much emphasis being put on the positive impact of Keegan's return.

First and foremost they have to sort out the defence, because at the moment they can't score, so they can't concede. People say that Newcastle are too good to go down. Well that may be the case in theory, but at present they are easily one of the worst sides in the league and with the games that they have coming up, they will find it very difficult to pick up points. They are in real danger of getting relegated.

[Ozz]

Forgot to mention this before, but the current issue of Viz has an episode of Billy The Fish, in which an hilarious parody of the appointment of Keegan is erm, featured.

[brian_gallagher85]

Hands up who would join me in laughing very very very hard if the Barcodes got relegated?

And does it make me a bad person?

Just saw your post Flopsy

<-- That's me putting both my hands up there

[waggy]

some easy money to be made tomorrow back torres for a 3rd hat-trick in 3 home games