[Archived] Nickos Thread

[bluebruce]

Having see Treacy play several times before he made his first team debut, i think the tag he was given of being an up an coming potential first teamer was for me a highly unfair tag to put on the lad in the first place. Expectations then became higher than was possible but whose fault was that, was it the clubs, or the local media (Neild Telegraph)

Has its now become that, that same unfair expectation has been placed on young Flynn.

I think much more expectation was placed on Rigters.

[Russ]

We have been linked with Farfan on more than one occasion. He is apparently unsettled at PSV.

Looks a bit raw but we could develop him. I would think a few clubs would be in for him if he was available.

If he can only play right wing (not sure), he would not be a priority signing for us.

I'm sure I have seen Farfan play on the left wing before, and apparently he can do a decent job upfront too, so has a bit of versatility.

He has been quite impressive tonight and has seen a lot of the ball, he seems to be everywhere at times (maybe coz he takes all of the set pieces too??)

The story I saw was he wants to leave and would be willing to buy out own his contract in summer, if necessary, in order to get the move he wants?

Has anyone else heard this? not sure how reliable the source was to be fair though.

[tcj_jones]

[quote name='joey_big_nose' date='Mar 5 2008, 10:23 ' post='591136'

You get what you put in. If we treat our players with respect and care they will repay us in kind.

In an ideal world yes Joey. But I remember Shearer being given time off to have an op before Euro 96 and repaying us by leaving. Other players to spend months injured and do one once fit are Sutton, McKinlay, Bellamy and Le Saux.

If that's the repayment in kind the club have had in the past, I know what stance I'd take.

You can add Barry Ferguson to that list. We must have splashed out a large six figure sum on medical fees, spent more than six months nursing him back to full strength, stuck by him and didn't buy a replacement and he refuses to play and then buggers off to Rangers. That one really made me taste bile.

[nicko]

I don't know Nicko...haven't they announced it on the same morning as your own paper has?

Which would have been how many hours after it was on here?

[nicko]

There have been an extraordinary amount of games covered by the scouts and senior staff this midweek..hoping to put some names on the games for Sunday.

And after the Vogel business there won't be any more leads than that...

You never know who is watching.

[Silencio]

Re Vogel: Good signing. Hope he get's fit. Good player who passes the ball very well.

Re Bentley: I really wish he's shut up talking to the press all the time. I don't mind honesty but he talks about stuff he shouldn't. What business is it of his to tell Walcott what he should and shouldn't do?

Re Rover6: I agree with his comments. Williams has often said our squad should be made up with Academy graduates and our signings should be for the 1st eleven. There has been next to nothing from the academy for years and in the long run we are losing money by having to fork out for senior players to supplement the squad.

I imagine it's Bobby Downes who is accountable for this failure and in any other walk of life he would have been sacked for being so unproductive. If it isn't Downes' fault then Williams or Hughes really need to review where things are going wrong because a small club like ours needs to have some players coming through the ranks.

[philipl]

From this morning's Telegraph:

There was also a barb for his old adversary, Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger. "A unique team - their coach hasn't won for years, but he's an idol," said Mourinho. "There are no pressures at Arsenal. But do not say he's growing young players into talents, because he takes jewels and polishes them."

Mourinho is probably a better guide to armchair football.

From the BBC press review this morning:

Blackburn have handed a trial to former Manchester United midfielder Quinton Fortune. (Daily Mirror)

[Rovermatt]

At last we're pulling out all the stops...

[Eddie]

From this morning's Telegraph:

There was also a barb for his old adversary, Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger. "A unique team - their coach hasn't won for years, but he's an idol," said Mourinho. "There are no pressures at Arsenal. But do not say he's growing young players into talents, because he takes jewels and polishes them."

He's sort of right. I think Wenger is great in the transfer market and deserves a huge amount of praise for some of the players who he has signed and turned into very good players, but most of these youth players were top prospects and buying them didn't take much of an eye for talent.

[M-K]

Football 365's transfer gossip roundup says Hughes is "unlikely to hand midfield trialists Johann Vogel and Quinton Fortune contracts this season."

Don't know where they got that from though.

[Rovermatt]

He's sort of right. I think Wenger is great in the transfer market and deserves a huge amount of praise for some of the players who he has signed and turned into very good players, but most of these youth players were top prospects and buying them didn't take much of an eye for talent.

He's also right about Wenger being untouchable. In spite of Arsenal's impending implosion in the league, the guy will remain unchecked.

[BuckyRover]

They did beat AC Milan in the San Siro the other night.

I still think they have good chance of doing very well this season

[Exiled_Rover]

From this morning's Telegraph:

There was also a barb for his old adversary, Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger. "A unique team - their coach hasn't won for years, but he's an idol," said Mourinho. "There are no pressures at Arsenal. But do not say he's growing young players into talents, because he takes jewels and polishes them."

Mourinho is probably a better guide to armchair football.

From the BBC press review this morning:

Blackburn have handed a trial to former Manchester United midfielder Quinton Fortune. (Daily Mirror)

I do miss Mourinho, he's a character.

[Ronin]

http://www.clubcall.com/index.jsp?storyID=334871

Just noticed this with Rovers maybe linking up with a Polish club like they do with Cercle.

[rover6]

He's sort of right. I think Wenger is great in the transfer market and deserves a huge amount of praise for some of the players who he has signed and turned into very good players, but most of these youth players were top prospects and buying them didn't take much of an eye for talent.

But why can't the Liverpool/Man U/Tottenham/Chelsea reserve teams get to the Carling Cup semi-finals every season?

All these clubs are falling over themselves chasing prodigious teenage footy talent across the world. Liverpool snapped up great promise in Sinama-Pongolle and Le Tallec - but what became of them? Man U snatched Rossi and Pique from abroad to much consternation from their previous clubs but they didn't contribute much.

Wenger not only brings in quality youth players but for some reason, many of them develop and make an impression with the first team. This does not happen with other clubs who, in some cases, have more money. I don't know if it's the coaching, the club mentality, the opportunities they get, luck but Wenger's team is constantly evolving, with the young influx gradually rising to the top.

How much did Gael Clichy cost to replace Ashley Cole. How much did Ashley Cole cost to replace Silvinho? The way Wenger got rid of Ljungberg and Lauren when he deemed their successors more capable was ruthless but also impressively successful. This is in contrast to the way other manager's cling desperately to their rapidly fading 30 somethings.

[joey_big_nose]

But why can't the Liverpool/Man U/Tottenham/Chelsea reserve teams get to the Carling Cup semi-finals every season?

Liverpool snapped up great promise in Sinama-Pongolle and Le Tallec - but what became of them? Man U snatched Rossi and Pique from abroad to much consternation from their previous clubs but they didn't contribute much.

Wenger not only brings in quality youth players but for some reason, many of them develop and make an impression with the first team. This does not happen with other clubs who, in some cases, have more money. I don't know if it's the coaching, the club mentality, the opportunities they get, luck but Wenger's team is constantly evolving, with the young influx gradually rising to the top.

How much did Gael Clichy cost to replace Ashley Cole. How much did Ashley Cole cost to replace Silvinho?

The way Wenger got rid of Ljungberg and Lauren when he deemed their successors more capable was ruthless but also impressively successful.

I think part of it is that Wenger allows them to make mistakes- look at the 4-0 thrashing by Spurs. And he gives them a target by allowing his best players to be replaced by them.

Would Ferguson allow players like Viera, Henry, Campbell, Cole leave to be replaced by youngsters. No. He would let them go if they wanted out but then sign first class European players. Wenger seems to be prepared to give 10 or so youngsters a decent run of games a season, and extraoridinarily quickly promote them to the first team. You could say this is because they have access to better talents. But hten at Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Barcelona etc. it is more like three young players, at a stretch, who get any decent sort of playing time. Actually at the moment I would argue Chelsea are only really testing out Mikel, Man Utd have Nani and Anderson (and all those three cost buckets) while Liverpool aren't giving any young players significant playing time.

Wenger takes risks completely out of line with the modern game which he should be applauded for. Eventually I think it will catch him out, as it arguably did last season, but it does make the league more interesting.

In a way I wish there was a paralell universe where we could throw five or six of our youth team into the squad. It would probably do better than many would expect, but still significantly underperform compared to where we get with our current team.

You could actually argue that Arsenal are maybe performing worse than if they had spent the money available to buy seasoned talent. But thats just the way Wenger rolls. And it has an attraction because it is unique, both for the manager himself and the fans.

[nicko]

Man U snatched Rossi and Pique from abroad to much consternation from their previous clubs but they didn't contribute much.

Rossi was sold for £6.7 million...that'a a fairly big contribution.

[rover6]

That's a fair point and I believe that Ferguson was very reluctant to let him go. However, Ferguson did not have the guts to give Rossi a run in the team to develop his confidence and find his feet in the Premier League. Wenger, generally, does allow his young players this chance. Bendtner was good at Birmingham but, as far as I know, wasn't amazingly prolific. Now, he is getting chances at Arsenal and although he has committed some misdemeanours and has not set the world alight, Wenger has the patience and belief to persevere with him (rather than coaxing Henrik Larsson out of retirement).

[Rovermatt]

They did beat AC Milan in the San Siro the other night.

I still think they have good chance of doing very well this season

That's why I said the league. The result in Milan was indeed very impressive. The dropped points in the title race though have been pretty unforgivable to be honest.

[nicko]

Arsenal are currently finding more Premier League standard players than Man U. It's been the result of lots of years of good scouting and reasonable spending.

I still can't see any reason why Rovers are finding it difficult to do the same...or most of the rest of the league either.

There is a shortage of available talent in the transfer market. So anyone who finds good players will always get a good price for them too.

Man City have done it well too. You can laugh at Joey Barton but his sale paid for a good few years of the academy there. Likewise Micah Richards would fetch a fortune.

There is a lot to be said for a good youth set-up that finds players and sells them on - either upwards or downwards.

I don't really have to metion the name Damien Duff to confirm that theory...but I just did.

[BuckyRover]

That's why I said the league. The result in Milan was indeed very impressive. The dropped points in the title race though have been pretty unforgivable to be honest.

True, but it's not too long ago that Man Utd lost 2-0 at home to City.

There is going to be a few twists along the way.

I think that last minute goal against Villa might have got their season back on track. Without that goal, I don't think Tuesday would have been possible

[waggy]

nicko have you heard any news about sam vokes off bournemouth

[Ozz]

Micah Richards would fetch a fortune.

...and Danny Granville would fetch a cloth.

Sorry.

[nicko]

...and Danny Granville would fetch a cloth.

Sorry.

He was a Chelsea 'discovery.'

[LeChuck]

He's sort of right. I think Wenger is great in the transfer market and deserves a huge amount of praise for some of the players who he has signed and turned into very good players, but most of these youth players were top prospects and buying them didn't take much of an eye for talent.

I think Mourinho's been slighty harsh on Wenger, as have you Eddie. He spotted world class talent in the likes of Vieira, Ljungberg, Henry etc. that other managers had missed, and after some work brought out that talent. More recently he's done it with Hleb, Adebayor, Flamini and Van Persie. I think he undoubtedly has the ability to take a player on a few levels, more so than any other manager in the league in my opinion. It sometimes takes him a while, Flamini has looked nothing more than an average player for years, but suddenly this season he looks the complete defensive midfield player. Personally, I don't think he would have achieved this level of performance under the guidance of any other manager.

Mourinho does have a point to an extent in that Wenger probably has the best youngsters to work with out of any manager in the world, but his record of getting those youngsters to play at the highest level is phenomenal, and as we've yet to see another club do anything similar I think it's safe to say Wenger is a bit special in that department.