[Archived] Nickos Thread

[nicko]

Any news on the takeover of the club ?

None whatsoever.

I do notice that Sheff Wed's takeover has also taken longer than it was supposed to.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

It makes me laugh that we get fined £100,000 for our yellow/red cards in that one season yet the Spanish FA get fined only £44,750 for the racist chanting during that England game even though thats meant to be the ultimate no-no in Sport, especially football.

If teams are going to be fined so heavily for yellow cards and red cards, teams will start to take the FA to court over wrongful issuing of cards.

[AggyBlue]

Blackburn: Fined £100,000 (including £70,000 suspended from 2005/06), with a further fine of £50,000 in place for the 2007/08 season.

If we're going to keep getting fined for petty offences we might as well get our money's worth, starting by kicking the s hit out of West Ham.

[thenodrog]

To recap, as it stands:

Champions League...Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool.

UEFA Cup...Tottenham, Portsmouth/Barnsley/West Brom, Everton.

If Spurs or Everton win the UEFA Cup, then sixth place goes in.

If Cardiff win the FA Cup, then there's an extra place. So seventh place could go in.

InterToto...next.

Fair Play...currently Man City.

So there is still plenty of chance of Europe - but you would have to finish above Man City and probably Portsmouth - and then hope.

I assume you've forgotten Villa?

[nicko]

I assume you've forgotten Villa?

No, I had them down as your main sixth place competitors...

[philipl]

nicko, thanks for that clarification. There is so much guesswork and proposals that never become UEFA rules (top league only for instance) that it is a minefield. I assume the FA have got it right.... ?

So it is multiple choice miracle time-

Rovers qualify unambiguously in their own right by coming 5th (or an Intertoto 6th).

Or, one or other of Everton and Spuds rescuing terminally losing positions from their UEFA Cup first legs and going and winning it at Eastlands.

Or, Cardiff win the FA Cup (and we don't muck up our side of the deal by slipping below 7th).

I like the last one, Cardiff won the Cup in 1927 and we all know who won it the year after...

[andrew92]

What a load of Bo****s that fair play league is. pedersen got booked when arteta grabbed him round the throat and again at Newcastle, UTD do what they want and say what they want but they are top pfttttt a fix me thinks.

[LeChuck]

So it is multiple choice miracle time-

I believe you can also add to it:

Barnsley win the FA Cup

W.B.A. win the FA Cup and don't get promoted. Actually, I'm not sure about this one, even if they get promoted and win it, surely they'd still count as a Championship side at the time of winning the Cup and therefore shouldn't be entered in to the UEFA?

[brian_gallagher85]

This is all really tooooooooooo confusing.

Do the none Premiership clubs not get a Uefa place then, if they win the cup?

...can't seem to get a concrete answer to this.

Nicko, are the rules etc you got from the FA their own guidelines, or the same as the ones on Uefa's site, as their rules page on the subject is gibberish

[philipl]

I believe you can also add to it:

Barnsley win the FA Cup

W.B.A. win the FA Cup and don't get promoted. Actually, I'm not sure about this one, even if they get promoted and win it, surely they'd still count as a Championship side at the time of winning the Cup and therefore shouldn't be entered in to the UEFA?

No, it appears that the change in UEFA rule debarring non-top league teams from their competitions which was widely reported never actually made it into the regulations if I read nicko's post correctly.

[brian_gallagher85]

A right, answers my question too.

Just need Pompey to lose to The Welsh now

[nicko]

No, it appears that the change in UEFA rule debarring non-top league teams from their competitions which was widely reported never actually made it into the regulations if I read nicko's post correctly.

The FA were straight about that one - it doesn't matter what league you play in.

It may be confusing but it's a lot more interesting than the first half at the Turf. As bad a 45 as I have seen - and I have seen a few.

[andrew92]

This table is ther to show who has spent the most money per point they hav got from the start of thr 2004 season up until todays date.

Team

Blackburn £46,798 profit per point

Arsenal £563 profit per point

Fulham £64,569

Bolton £71,538

Everton £100,888

Man City £101,923

Middlesb' £139,044

Portsmo' £148,000

Aston V £210,962

Newcastle £248,092

Man Utd £249,361

Spurs £279,009

Liverpool £327,462

Chelsea £786,086

The figures came from here!!

http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98956

i put it on here because i didnt think it deserved a new thread but i think it is interesting.

[Rover-the-Top]

Just spoken to the FA.

The FA Cup winners go into the UEFA Cup - unless it's Cardiff. Barnsley and West Brom can qualify.

If Cardiff win the FA Cup, then the runners-up miss out.

So, you basically want to become Cardiff fans for a while.

There is a potential extra place in the UEFA Cup - if an English team wins the UEFA Cup...and that's official.

Sorry to be abrupt on my first post, but according to the entry rules for the UEFA Cup, as available from the UEFA website:

1.10 A club which is not admitted to the competition shall be replaced by another

club of the same national association, provided it fulfils the admission criteria.

The following rule shall apply:

a) if the club which is not admitted is the winner of the domestic cup, it shall

be replaced by the domestic cup runner-up, unless the latter does not

fulfil the admission criteria or has already qualified for the UEFA

Champions League or UEFA Cup, in which cases the club will be

replaced by the next best-placed club in the top domestic league

championship;

ie if Cardiff (who don't meet the admission criteria) win the FA Cup, the runner-up will take their place.

Also:

1.06 Unless the UEFA Cup title-holder qualifies for the UEFA Champions League

through its domestic championship, it will be guaranteed a place in the first

round of the UEFA Cup. If the title-holder does qualify for the UEFA Cup

through its domestic competitions, the number of places to which its national

association is entitled in the UEFA Cup does not change. If the UEFA Cup

title-holder does not qualify for either the UEFA Champions League or UEFA

Cup through its domestic competitions, its participation in the UEFA Cup will

not be at the expense of the contingent of its association.

The potential 'extra' place is only available to the UEFA Cup winners if they fail to qualify through domestic competition. If, say, Spurs go on to win the UEFA Cup, then they've already qualified for next year's competition, so no extra place will be given to the league.

The full document is here: http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19070.pdf

[modes98]

ie if Cardiff (who don't meet the admission criteria) win the FA Cup, the runner-up will take their place.

I think the runner up debate is around the "unless the latter does not fulfil the admission criteria", as there seems to be a line of thought that the rules were altered after Millwall made it into Europe, so that Championship clubs would not meet the FA's admission criteria by not being in the top flight?

[Rover-the-Top]

I think the runner up debate is around the "unless the latter does not fulfil the admission criteria", as there seems to be a line of thought that the rules were altered after Millwall made it into Europe, so that Championship clubs would not meet the FA's admission criteria by not being in the top flight?

Huh? The FA have already told Nicko that West Brom and Barnsley can qualify, as stated above. Cardiff can't because they are not a member of the English FA, and thus do not meet the admission criteria as set out in the UEFA document. So either the information available on the UEFA website is out of date, and the entry rules have been substantially changed for next season. Or the FA don't know what they're on about. Given some of the recent decisions regarding red cards and the charge against a certain club, I'm more inclined to believe the latter...

[rovers_rob]

Sorry to be abrupt on my first post, but according to the entry rules for the UEFA Cup, as available from the UEFA website:

ie if Cardiff (who don't meet the admission criteria) win the FA Cup, the runner-up will take their place.

According to rules you are quoting if Chelsea had won the league cup then Spurs would have qualified for UEFA but my understanding was that if Chelsea had won the league cup then the next UEFA pace would have gone to 6th place.

[LeftWinger]

According to rules you are quoting if Chelsea had won the league cup then Spurs would have qualified for UEFA but my understanding was that if Chelsea had won the league cup then the next UEFA pace would have gone to 6th place.

You make an excellent point there! Good work!

[Rover-the-Top]

According to rules you are quoting if Chelsea had won the league cup then Spurs would have qualified for UEFA but my understanding was that if Chelsea had won the league cup then the next UEFA pace would have gone to 6th place.

No. The 'domestic cup' is specifically defined as meaning the FA Cup. I'll try to keep this brief, but rule 1.03 explains that FAs can choose to transfer one of their league placings to another cup competition if they want - this is what our FA has done with the league cup (you may remember when Leicester missed out on a UEFA Cup place after winning the League Cup - an extra place automatically went to the league instead that year). That place goes back to the league if the winners qualify for the CL, not the runners up.

[nicko]

Huh? The FA have already told Nicko that West Brom and Barnsley can qualify, as stated above. Cardiff can't because they are not a member of the English FA, and thus do not meet the admission criteria as set out in the UEFA document. So either the information available on the UEFA website is out of date, and the entry rules have been substantially changed for next season. Or the FA don't know what they're on about. Given some of the recent decisions regarding red cards and the charge against a certain club, I'm more inclined to believe the latter...

The FA were quite specific, they had a set of 'party lines' already prepared. They were specific about Cardiff and also that the runners-up will not be put forward.

I believe that the FA ultimately can make that decision - but if the UEFA rules are different I would imagine that the runner-up might well kick up a fuss.

As you say, the FA can make up their own rules at times...

[eddiewac]

ok so Cardiff can't enter the uefa cup because they are associated with the Welsh FA? so what happens if they get promoted to the premiership and finish 5th??

[nicko]

Just spoken to a reasonably-informed chairman of a club...who says:

Cardiff may have a case and that the Championship sides may not be allowed in by UEFA unless they meet certain requirements. So the FA Cup entrant for Europe is going to be the hottest of hot subjects.

I think I'm going to give up on this topic right now...

[Head Rover Heels]

I believe that the FA ultimately can make that decision - but if the UEFA rules are different I would imagine that the runner-up might well kick up a fuss.

Hmm, where clubs (West Ham and Sheffield) have kicked up a fuss before, it seems the FA have been happy to be a law unto themselves. If it is actually all down to the FA to decide, then unless Portsmouth either win or lose to Cardiff, then i would imagine they should decide that it is best to go back to the league.

For all our seeming unpopularity with the FA, i think they would sooner see us there than Barnsley or West Brom.

From reading the rules, it seems clear to me that we haven't got a hope in hell - But if it comes down to an FA decision, then unless Portsmouth make the decision easy for them then i can see it going back to the league.

[nicko]

Portsmouth would be allowed in as FA Cup winners, Cardiff won't and both Barnsley and West Brom would - as it stands and if they meet the UEFA criteria.

If Cardiff win the FA Cup, then Barnsley and West Brom would not be put forward as runners-up under the guidlines from the FA - although they might have a case with UEFA if they meet their criteria. That would be up to them to contest.

If Cardiff get to the Premiership and finish fifth it won't matter...because Hell will have frozen over.

[modes98]

Huh? The FA have already told Nicko that West Brom and Barnsley can qualify, as stated above.

Sorry maybe i didn't make it clear, i meant in terms of runners up as Nicko said in terms of winner, as stated above!!! Although it is a really confusing situation. Just hope that Cardiff win the thing.

Cardiff may have a case

Cardiff were aware of the rule at the start of the season and it should be enforced. Could the Welsh FA put them forward as one of their teams?