[Archived] Nickos Thread

[USRoverME]

Exactly.

Maybe I should demand that my company pay for someone to do my taxes, or pay my mechanic to fix my car....

Niot exactly the same thing.... however, companies paying recruiters/headhunters is a similar real-world equivalent.

[Fife Rover]

That is a fair point in that many cannot afford to now attend. But the reality is that if you have a maximum wage in any industry then the money that would be spent on the individuals actaully playing the sport (the players and the managing staff) it would just get diverted into shareholders or the owners of the clubs. A ticket price is not dictated by what the costs incurred by the club are but by how much the club thinks it can extract from those that attend. Simple supply and demand.

So if you want to attack pricing of the gate government legislation/league rules should focus on lowering the ticket price.

To be honest the players are negotiating for the biggest cut they can take which is not suprising given that they are the product. Just the same as any industry where the people involved are the commodity. A wage cap would have the main effect of making owners much much more wealthy and little affect on prices imo.

There again you have highlighted a major difference in the way clubs were run 50 years ago (all of them) and the way they are run now (the top tiers only). Clubs used to be run as exactly that "clubs", most of them with no Shareholders in the modern business sense. The clubs had a constitution that dictated how they were to be run and making a profit for ownwers/ shareholders was definitiely not part of it. They were run in much the same way as your local tennis club or golf club or even a working mens club is run now. That is soley for the benefit and entertainment of the members and the paying public; they were NOT run like big business is now were the SOLE reason for ANY business is to produce a profit for it's shareholders; nothing else. It is not there to produce goods or services, they are only the means to create the profit. And that is what football today at the top level is all about. Do you see the difference?

[Manchester Blue]

Exactly.

Maybe I should demand that my company pay for someone to do my taxes, or pay my mechanic to fix my car....

Of course you should, many firms pay for the services of their employees, especially those employees they are desperate to keep hold of.

[American]

Well if you put it that way there is no problem, but I guess my problem stems from 1961 when the maximum wage in football was removed. It was obvious from that very moment what was going to happen, and some of us tried (through letters to the press etc) to point out the way things would eventually turn out, and we were right; it has. The result (as predicted) was the end of genuine fair competition whereby any club in the Football League could achieve anything there was to win, and that's the way it had always worked from the formation of the FL in 1888 right up to 1961. And to be fair, it still took a few years before the full effects we had predicted became sufficiently apparent and made the emergence of the "Big Clubs" the overriding factor. Players went to the "Big Clubs" simply because they were willing to pay higher wages, so eventually we arrived at the situation where most clubs could not compete money wise and therefore lost all their best players and were never again able to even hope to get them back again. Thus a set in stone Strata System appeared and is what we have to this day. Except that now on top of all that we have the PL which has moved the goalposts again. This time to create a "Super League" with only the super-rich clubs invited.

If that is what you all want and have no problem with, all I can say is: OK get on with it and continue to be ripped off, after all those of you that are left as supporters on the ground can afford it can't you? What does it matter if there are 100's of thousands of former football diehard supporters that have (of necessity) dropped out of the rat race and found other interests.

Says the man who's television subscriptions help fund the league.

US RoverME, you have a bit of a point, but my company doesn't have to pay the agency a fee every time they give me a raise, just the first time. I could see if the agent was really finding players for the club (or would that make them a scout?). Either way, for all the complaining, the clubs were paying the money before, and they will, in some cases, be paying it now. I don't see what the big deal is. We pay Bentley (just making figures up) a total of 15 million, plus 1 million for the agent, or we pay Bentley a total of 16 million and he pays the agent. How is this the end of the world, like Alan makes it out to be?

[nicko]

Says the man who's television subscriptions help fund the league.

US RoverME, you have a bit of a point, but my company doesn't have to pay the agency a fee every time they give me a raise, just the first time. I could see if the agent was really finding players for the club (or would that make them a scout?). Either way, for all the complaining, the clubs were paying the money before, and they will, in some cases, be paying it now. I don't see what the big deal is. We pay Bentley (just making figures up) a total of 15 million, plus 1 million for the agent, or we pay Bentley a total of 16 million and he pays the agent. How is this the end of the world, like Alan makes it out to be?

It's not the end of the world, it's the start of a problem. And one that every club is going to run into.

If an agent - any agent - is not paid to re-negotiate a deal he will try to take a player elsewhere. So clubs HAVE to pay them or possibly lose the player.

We throw figures about all of the time, but the point about Bentley - or any other player in this position - is that the club would have to pay about 10 per cent more than they would want to or previously did.

If that 10 per cent is, say £1.5 million over a contract, then it does make life difficult for a club on a tight budget.

The point is that this new rule should never have been introduced.

[alexanders]

What about this Ledley kid from Cardiff, any truth we are after him Nicko?

[nicko]

Just heard Wigan will struggle to get a team on the park at Portsmouth on Saturday.

Boyce, King and even Fiigueroa all flying back from across the pond. Koumas, Palacios and Brown suspended. Edman and Sibierksi crocked. Possibly Kirkland too.

Home win at 4-5 on Betfair or 2-1 if you fancy ht/ft.

Possibly the bet of the season.

[nicko]

What about this Ledley kid from Cardiff, any truth we are after him Nicko?

Everyone has looked, no-one has bid. Ramsey is the one catching the eye there just now.

Saw a worldie last night...Kevin Wolze at Bolton. What a talent.

[ffan]

Blackburn alert:

Aaron Hughes on Sky Sports News saying his contract is out in the summer, what the fluck were you doing Sanchez - ONLY 1 YEAR!,.

A good defender, one of our better players this season, a replacement for Mokoena or Oojer?

[1864roverite]

Hughes is too slow and in any other team than Fulham a liability.

As for the whizzkid at Bolton, next stop EWOOD PARK, especially when the winkers get relegated

[Fife Rover]

Says the man who's television subscriptions help fund the league.

Hmmmmmm! Let me see now; when did I stop attending at Ewood on a fairly regular basis? Oh yes I remember it was Dec 2005 West Ham match. And when did I start attending Ewood on a regular basis? Oh yes again I remember it was Nov 1946, Rovers v Grimsby. Admittedly I missed a few matches when I was in the RN from July 1951 to Feb 1955, and again whilst I was a student at college 1957-'60, but for all the rest I was a Regular attender at Ewood, and for years at as many away matches as circumstances allowed. Season ticket holder as well right through the '70's.

I have never bothered to try and add up how many matches that lot equates to, and quite frankly I can't be bothered to. But I do know it is a lot, so I don't think I owe them anything, and I would hazard a guess that there are very few members of this site that have seen as many Rovers matches live as I have. Not that it matters either. I dont claim to be a better supporter than anyone else, but please don't try and make cheap jibes at someone who has through old age and physical infirmity been reduced to watching on the TV instead of at Ewood. Believe me if I could get there, I would get there. I can't even make it to Dunfermline Athletic these days and they are only 8 miles away.

[1864roverite]

I can't even make it to Dunfermline Athletic these days and they are only 8 miles away.

That would not ease the pain you are suffering, it would probably make it ten time worse

[thenodrog]

but please don't try and make cheap jibes at someone who has through old age and physical infirmity been reduced to watching on the TV instead of at Ewood.

Totally understandable Fife but with approx 10,000 Blue invalid tickets issued by BwD council alone it's no wonder skytv can fork out so much.

[Fife Rover]

It's not the end of the world, it's the start of a problem. And one that every club is going to run into.

If an agent - any agent - is not paid to re-negotiate a deal he will try to take a player elsewhere. So clubs HAVE to pay them or possibly lose the player.

We throw figures about all of the time, but the point about Bentley - or any other player in this position - is that the club would have to pay about 10 per cent more than they would want to or previously did.

If that 10 per cent is, say £1.5 million over a contract, then it does make life difficult for a club on a tight budget.

The point is that this new rule should never have been introduced.

I understand exactly what you are saying Nicko. However the thing I find amazing is that players apparently allow the agent to do all their thinking for them, and so it would seem, to move them around as if they were no more that the wooden pieces on a chess board. Do these people not have minds of their own? Can they not instruct their agent as to their actual requirements, in the same way that you or I would do? I find the whole business absolutely astounding; beyond belief!

[rover6]

Saw a worldie last night...Kevin Wolze at Bolton. What a talent.

I am told that an ex-Blackburn academy player, Mario Pokar, is keeping Wolze out of the German U18 side.

[nicko]

I understand exactly what you are saying Nicko. However the thing I find amazing is that players apparently allow the agent to do all their thinking for them, and so it would seem, to move them around as if they were no more that the wooden pieces on a chess board. Do these people not have minds of their own? Can they not instruct their agent as to their actual requirements, in the same way that you or I would do? I find the whole business absolutely astounding; beyond belief!

Most players - especially the younger ones - don't have any real idea about how the game works. They do need help to sort out contracts and their lives. They would not have the balls or the kowledge to sort out deals for themselves.

If they are lucky they have a good agent, if not they can get screwed. That's the nature of the business.

Every action DOES cause a reaction and it's the way clubs used to use players as virtual slaves that prompted Bosman and now the current frenzy. So while you might not like it, it's down to what happened in the past - and still is the way in some cases.

Look at the guy at Gretna who just got dumped because the club could not pay for his medical treatment. It's all part of the same game.

Football clubs are also happy to have agents around as they bring in players too. It's just a business now, we all recall the Golden Age when players played for the jersey etc. But sadly most of those generations got shafted along the way too.

[Paul Mellelieu]

I am told that an ex-Blackburn academy player, Mario Pokar, is keeping Wolze out of the German U18 side.

Who told you?

[nicko]

Wolze played in the German under-17 team that finished third in the last World Youth Cup finals. Pokar was not in that squad. He may have overtaken him since, but if so then he has to be a talent.

[they_think_its_all_rover]

What about this Ledley kid from Cardiff, any truth we are after him Nicko?

I like Joe Ledley, good player... maybe only linked through the "Wales connection" though?

[LeftWinger]

Wolze played in the German under-17 team that finished third in the last World Youth Cup finals. Pokar was not in that squad. He may have overtaken him since, but if so then he has to be a talent.

I've watched Bolton reserves a couple of times this season Nicko - and Wolze hasn't looked anything special - albeit in a very poor Bolton Reserve team. Maybe you just caught him on a good day, or maybe I've just seen him have a few bad days - either way difficult to tell from just a few performances.

[nicko]

I've watched Bolton reserves a couple of times this season Nicko - and Wolze hasn't looked anything special - albeit in a very poor Bolton Reserve team. Maybe you just caught him on a good day, or maybe I've just seen him have a few bad days - either way difficult to tell from just a few performances.

He is top drawer, just 18, and sees the game like a senior pro.

[baxendenblue]

Nicko

Any news on the loan deals that will ensure promotion for our friends down the road?

Thanks

[nicko]

Nicko

Any news on the loan deals that will ensure promotion for our friends down the road?

Thanks

Working hard...but getting a few slaps.

Ben Foster was the keeper. Man U were loaning him, now they have decided against. Won't play for them and can't play in Europe, but Sir wants to keep him now. Other targets been contacted but there are some lazy people in the Premier who would rather take a salary and do nowt than play.

The left winger should be sorted out tomorrow. One way or another. The club - who wil be named if it goes wrong - are letting the agent decide which club their player should join. Farce.

Lots of Championship moves on just now. Stoke, Cardiff and Crystal Palace all busy.

[they_think_its_all_rover]

Who are Stoke, Cardiff & Palace looking at?

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Who are Stoke, Cardiff & Palace looking at?

Stoke are trying to sign Camara from Fulham

Leicester are signing Mpenza on loan from city