Restaurants

[dave birch]

The Christmas present to the son was voucher for a 10 course degustation menu at Tetsuya's. Australia's only restaurant listed in the top 10 restaurants in the world.

It's Japanese with French influences

[Claytons Left Boot]

For the first time ever we have eaten out on Christmas Day - Marco Polo's in Darwen. Pricewise, the normal menu plus specials board.

Excellent food, as usual and very welcoming. £165 for five. We had two garlic breads, followed by three courses each, two bottles of wine, a round of drinks and coffees and mince pies to finish.

What's more, no washing up for me and a stress free day for Mrs CLB.

[MCMC1875]

T' Clog must be the mboard favourite. I saw ES was in there recently. And Clog blue was in at 7ish. I went there at 9.00pm just for a few pints of Wainrights and a chat with numerous and varied aquaintances who had all been dining. If you'd been a bit later Paul I'd have stood you a pint or three and you could have ditched the bike.

Either that or there's not enough choice. The Clog is well over rated in my opinion.

[Paul]

Either that or there's not enough choice. The Clog is well over rated in my opinion.

There isn't enough choice in the area no question of that. I'm inclined to agree the Clog is over-rated. Only been the once and I enjoyed it, we paid £12 / head inluding drinks and three starter platters shared between us so I think the value is good. Our party was 8 adults, 2 small children. On the downside it wasn't especially busy and we'd been there for 90 minutes before we got our main course - people were just starting to get twitchy when it arrive.

The meat platter starter was disappointing, the others good, everyone enjoyed their meals but I found there was little choice if one didn't want hail and hearty food. Interestingly only one vegetarian option. My wife had fish pie which was delicious. I had the burger which came over-cooked (I ordered rare, which for me means almost bleeding) and was very solid, we make better at home. (If you make burgers they need enough bread crumbs to make them crumble, this was like a 1" thick slab of meat). This sounds rather snobbish but I think the menu is designed for Blackburn folk; it's very hearty, filling and gives you lots to make you feel you've had good value. Haven't been to the Three Fishes but I'm guessing the location means it will be a different approach.

The food, service and atmosphere are good, wine list good but expensive, no music which is great so it adds up to excellent value but falls some way short of gastronomic experience. I had expected better, less would have been more.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Paul

[MCMC1875]

There isn't enough choice in the area no question of that. I'm inclined to agree the Clog is over-rated. Only been the once and I enjoyed it, we paid £12 / head inluding drinks and three starter platters shared between us so I think the value is good. Our party was 8 adults, 2 small children. On the downside it wasn't especially busy and we'd been there for 90 minutes before we got our main course - people were just starting to get twitchy when it arrive.

The meat platter starter was disappointing, the others good, everyone enjoyed their meals but I found there was little choice if one didn't want hail and hearty food. Interestingly only one vegetarian option. My wife had fish pie which was delicious. I had the burger which came over-cooked (I ordered rare, which for me means almost bleeding) and was very solid, we make better at home. (If you make burgers they need enough bread crumbs to make them crumble, this was like a 1" thick slab of meat). This sounds rather snobbish but I think the menu is designed for Blackburn folk; it's very hearty, filling and gives you lots to make you feel you've had good value. Haven't been to the Three Fishes but I'm guessing the location means it will be a different approach.

The food, service and atmosphere are good, wine list good but expensive, no music which is great so it adds up to excellent value but falls some way short of gastronomic experience. I had expected better, less would have been more.

Agreed Paul. We went in November. I thought the drinks choice was limited, the menu was limited and value for money was not good. Not keen on the current fad for serving food on boards either.

[Paul]

Gave this a whirl today Paul, seems a nice place. They didn't have what I wanted for today unfortunately but I got some lamb anyway for a hotpot during the week, and it was very good value. Local lamb is obviously their strength, so will keep that in mind.

Only just noticed this Tris. Yes lamb is one of their strengths though we often have beef - the blue beef steaks are fabulous, just show them a hot skillet and they melt in the mouth. Availability does vary. The meat is home grown, then sent for slaughter with only a few animals going at a time whch means once a cut is sold out you have to wait. I see that as a sign of quality and most folk I know expect to go and chose from what's available rather than find specifics.

As a complete aside I cooked our turkey using Nigella Lawson's brine soaking method, to my surprise it works very well. Get a large plastic bucket throw in unspecified quantities of cloves, mustard seed, caraway, anise, all spice seed, cinamon, salt, sugar, maple syrup, two onions quartered, one orange quartered and squeezed into the mixture, bunch of parsley, two inches of ginger diced add cold water sufficient to cover turkey. Stir for a bit and taste, mine was slightly salty and could taste the maple syrup. Put turkey in, leave in cold porch over night, then cook as usual. The result was beautifully moist meat.

Found a good stuffing receipe as well, apricot, pistachio and venison. You need to buy venison sausages and skin them but the rest is easy, pistachios, apricots, bread crumbs, onion, lemon zest, thyme, parsley. Combine everything in a bowl, mix well with your hands, place result in turkey and cook. You can use any sausage but venison is a good foil to the turkey, it freezes well so can be made in advance

Edited December 26, 2008 by Paul

[American]

Agree with the turkey brine, Paul, have done it a couple of times myself and always comes out good. Another tip I tried the last time I cooked a turkey was putting butter between the skin and the breast. Turned out to be nice and juicy.

[Paul]

That's a thought. I usually melt some butter, brush that over the skin and then place very fatty bacon over the breast. Never thought of putting the butter inside the turkey.

[thenodrog]

Agreed Paul. We went in November. I thought the drinks choice was limited, the menu was limited and value for money was not good. Not keen on the current fad for serving food on boards either.

I hate that too. I'm suprised food standards lot allow it.

The clog does need to re-vitalise the menu (maybe waiting till after Christmas) but not necessarily make it more extensive. I'm with Paul but on menu's more does not always mean better.

As for few veggie options........... who cares? In fact it serves the buggggers right!

I must say I frequently opine about which food is the biggest rip off...... Most Chinese dishes are expensive but contain very little meat, IndoPak food uses very uses cheap low quality meat, Italian food = lots of pasta a sauce, organic food is a complete nonsense etc etc BUT imo veggie food is about the biggest rip off going..... but as I said edarlier who cares?

[thenodrog]

As a complete aside I cooked our turkey using Nigella Lawson's brine soaking method, to my surprise it works very well. Get a large plastic bucket throw in unspecified quantities of cloves, mustard seed, caraway, anise, all spice seed, cinamon, salt, sugar, maple syrup, two onions quartered, one orange quartered and squeezed into the mixture, bunch of parsley, two inches of ginger diced add cold water sufficient to cover turkey. Stir for a bit and taste, mine was slightly salty and could taste the maple syrup. Put turkey in, leave in cold porch over night, then cook as usual. The result was beautifully moist meat.

Found a good stuffing receipe as well, apricot, pistachio and venison. You need to buy venison sausages and skin them but the rest is easy, pistachios, apricots, bread crumbs, onion, lemon zest, thyme, parsley. Combine everything in a bowl, mix well with your hands, place result in turkey and cook. You can use any sausage but venison is a good foil to the turkey, it freezes well so can be made in advance

Sounds good. Thanks.

btw I've just cut and pasted that into my 'recipe' folder...... 'Pauls Turkey'...... AND I even resisted the temptation to use the indefinite article Paul . The season of goodwill must really have descended upon me!

[MCMC1875]

I hate that too. I'm suprised food standards lot allow it.

The clog does need to re-vitalise the menu (maybe waiting till after Christmas) but not necessarily make it more extensive. I'm with Paul but on menu's more does not always mean better.

As for few veggie options........... who cares? In fact it serves the buggggers right!

I must say I frequently opine about which food is the biggest rip off...... Most Chinese dishes are expensive but contain very little meat, IndoPak food uses very uses cheap low quality meat, Italian food = lots of pasta a sauce, organic food is a complete nonsense etc etc BUT imo veggie food is about the biggest rip off going..... but as I said edarlier who cares?

Have you tried The Angel at Hetton?

[thenodrog]

Have you tried The Angel at Hetton?

No. It enjoys (ed?) a fine reputation though. I nearly did eat there once and didn't for reasons unknown now, but traipsing all that way for a feed is not my cup of tea any longer. Went to the 3 Millstones at West Bradford a couple of months back and that was 80 quid each way in a taxi. Granted it was an 8 seater (for 8) but I still felt like I had donkey ears on.

Edited December 27, 2008 by thenodrog

[ABBEY]

wheres hetton?

[whittle blue]

wheres hetton?

Yorks. Dales, North of Skipton

[colin]

I must say I frequently opine about which food is the biggest rip off...... Most Chinese dishes are expensive but contain very little meat, IndoPak food uses very uses cheap low quality meat, Italian food = lots of pasta a sauce, organic food is a complete nonsense etc etc BUT imo veggie food is about the biggest rip off going..... but as I said edarlier who cares?

OK, here I go. I've been vegetarian for 25+ years and I've got to agree with Theno that vegetarian food in most places is a rip-off. Chinese is usually a no-go as they usually put slivers of pork into everything. Indian vegatarian is usually OK, the carniverous alternative will be tasteless factory meat which should make the consumer feel guilty for eating it.

There are very few decent restraunts which actually make the effort to cater for vegetarians. The ones that do are probably you carnivores need to go to. If they have the nouse to actually make the effort for us lentil-munchers then you can probably be assured that they have put some effort into preparing something worthwhile. This is only personal opinion but whenever I've gone out with family & friends, the better my choice, the better the carnivore meal.

It was a cashew nut roast for me, don't knock it, you lot don't do turkey every day do you?

Still sick as a parrot after todays result.

[Paul]

As for few veggie options........... who cares? In fact it serves the buggggers right!

As we had two veggies with us I did!!!

I must say I frequently opine about which food is the biggest rip off...... Most Chinese dishes are expensive but contain very little meat, IndoPak food uses very uses cheap low quality meat, Italian food = lots of pasta a sauce, organic food is a complete nonsense etc etc BUT imo veggie food is about the biggest rip off going..... but as I said edarlier who cares?

You're certainly right about organic food. I've given up these days but trying to explain to people who insist on having a weekly vegetable and soil box delivered that they are being ripped of big style is impossible. Talk about fundamentalists!!! Organic food is a complete rip off without any question. Still it's been a great marketing opportunity and raised margins by around 40% on the product. Suckers.

As an aside the current / next big marketing opportunity is green /environmental. Knowing a few of the things planned for 2009 I can promise you all this is the next big "salve your conscience" thing - and once more it's all nothing other than marketing hype.

[thenodrog]

As we had two veggies with us I did!!!

You're certainly right about organic food. I've given up these days but trying to explain to people who insist on having a weekly vegetable and soil box delivered that they are being ripped of big style is impossible. Talk about fundamentalists!!! Organic food is a complete rip off without any question. Still it's been a great marketing opportunity and raised margins by around 40% on the product. Suckers.

The producers are suckered too! They don't get the difference in price by a long chalk, despite more work and far lower yields.

As an aside the current / next big marketing opportunity is green /environmental. Knowing a few of the things planned for 2009 I can promise you all this is the next big "salve your conscience" thing - and once more it's all nothing other than marketing hype.

Only women and terminally stupid males will fall for that load of bollax. Trouble is as we know they will fall for it hook, line and sinker in huge numbers and making huge amounts of bunce for the supermarkets again! As the old saying goes 'fools and their money are soon parted' .

Edited December 29, 2008 by thenodrog

[T4E]

Italian I think is the best choice, has to be round the centre of the place if that's possible?

La Dolce Vita is pleasant, on Clarence Street smack bang between the town centre and the old town, which are the two main areas.

Fabio's on Bath Road is also nice.

[Sandiway Blue]

http://www.thealmainn.com/Default.aspx

Just come back from the Alma Inn at Laneshawbridge having met for lunch with relatives.Average prices,although a bit steep for kids (£9.90 for two courses ) but very nice food indeed.A lot of homemade and local food with plenty of variety.Homemade steak and kidney pudding was very good indeed!

Pity missus couldn`t go as she was working,but that just gives me an excuse to go again.

[broadsword]

OK, my interest has been stimulated.

Can someone tell me why organic food is a waste of money please?

Please note that I am not a member of the Organic Food Front, so no need to get narky or condescending.

[American]

They tend to overprice stuff just because it is organic. The profit margins are higher because they know their target consumer will pay more to feel better about what they eat.

[MCMC1875]

Vina in Great Harwood - good value and excellent service.

[colin]

They tend to overprice stuff just because it is organic. The profit margins are higher because they know their target consumer will pay more to feel better about what they eat.

Very true, but there's also the very real cost of having to let land lie fallow for a few years so that all the artificial fertilizers have time to leach out and then, here in the UK, "The Soil Association" will then certify the product as organic.

And then the size of the crop per acre falls. ("Farmers' Weekly" passes by me on a regular basis.)

Only women and terminally stupid males will fall for that load of bollax

Oh dear. Misogyny is such a burden.

[Paul]

OK, my interest has been stimulated.

Can someone tell me why organic food is a waste of money please?

Please note that I am not a member of the Organic Food Front, so no need to get narky or condescending.

If you want good produce animal or vegetable, which tastes the way you would like find good shops in your local town, buy seasonal product ideally grown locally and buy little and often. Store it correctly, don't put tomatoes in the fridge!! Organic or not this is the way to find and eat good food. Think about foreign markets, especially the French. Try to buy products which have not been processed. Cook from ingredients, you want a tomato sauce? Chop onions, tomatoes, chuck in some garlic and reduce over a low heat.

For me the term "organic" has become catch all for better quality, taste and planet saving. It isn't neccessarily so and the whole issue of quality, sustainability, environment, climate change is extraordinarily complex. The difficulty I have with the whole thing is retailers are using a whole bunch of catchphrases, which actually mean nothing to persuade us to buy their product – fairtrade, organic, locally grown, traditional etc. I could bang on for hours. Consider two: where is the logic in buying organic French beans from Kenya in December? Sainsbury's promote locally grown produce. It's true it is grown locally, the phrase "locally grown" hides the fact it's shipped 100 miles to a distribution centre before being shipped back into the local area!!!! It's travelled 200 miles to get to the store but it was grown locally.

Over the past 20 years UK growers have reduced chemical inputs to the point where much produce is almost organic. The motivation is profit, chemicals are expensive, removing them reduces the reliance on agro-chemical suppliers and reduces costs. Much UK produce in supermarkets is virtually organic in the sense chemical inputs have been reduced to an absolute minimum to allow the grower to make a profit / remain in business. UK produce is superior to much that we import, however the supermarkets dare not publicise this fact as it would reflect badly on the non-seasonal product imported from overseas.

UK consumers expect a vegetable to "look" a certain way. Supermarkets have responded by demanding uniformity, packaging etc and the whole thing has become self-perpetuating. Plant breeders concentrated on high yielding, uniform, long storage crops. The end result is we are faced with the bland offering we find in Tesco et al. The public gets what the public wants

Taste is the one I love when discussing organics. Taste is often provided by sugars. Plant sugars break down under cold storage, no sugar equals no taste. ALL supermarket produce is cold-stored or chilled, usually on site by the producer. Organic produce is stored under the exact same conditions as non-organic produce. Better taste is imagined rather than actual. I could actively demonstrate this if we lived closer. Try buying a tomato from a supermarket, then find a tomato grower and buy one which has not been cold stored. One will taste like a tomato. It is true variety choice has an influence on taste but nothing like the influence of destroying the sugars which provide flavour!

In short the problem I have with organic, and why I consider it a waste of money is this: the consumer is not being given the whole picture, just the bit that makes them feel good. Secondly while organic produce is more expensive to produce it is not 30-40% more costly and while it is subjected to the same processes which remove taste from our food it cannot taste better

[thenodrog]

If you want good produce animal or vegetable, which tastes the way you would like find good shops in your local town, buy seasonal product ideally grown locally and buy little and often. Store it correctly, don't put tomatoes in the fridge!! Organic or not this is the way to find and eat good food. Think about foreign markets, especially the French. Try to buy products which have not been processed. Cook from ingredients, you want a tomato sauce? Chop onions, tomatoes, chuck in some garlic and reduce over a low heat.

For me the term "organic" has become catch all for better quality, taste and planet saving. It isn't neccessarily so and the whole issue of quality, sustainability, environment, climate change is extraordinarily complex. The difficulty I have with the whole thing is retailers are using a whole bunch of catchphrases, which actually mean nothing to persuade us to buy their product – fairtrade, organic, locally grown, traditional etc. I could bang on for hours. Consider two: where is the logic in buying organic French beans from Kenya in December? Sainsbury's promote locally grown produce. It's true it is grown locally, the phrase "locally grown" hides the fact it's shipped 100 miles to a distribution centre before being shipped back into the local area!!!! It's travelled 200 miles to get to the store but it was grown locally.

Over the past 20 years UK growers have reduced chemical inputs to the point where much produce is almost organic. The motivation is profit, chemicals are expensive, removing them reduces the reliance on agro-chemical suppliers and reduces costs. Much UK produce in supermarkets is virtually organic in the sense chemical inputs have been reduced to an absolute minimum to allow the grower to make a profit / remain in business. UK produce is superior to much that we import, however the supermarkets dare not publicise this fact as it would reflect badly on the non-seasonal product imported from overseas.

UK consumers expect a vegetable to "look" a certain way. Supermarkets have responded by demanding uniformity, packaging etc and the whole thing has become self-perpetuating. Plant breeders concentrated on high yielding, uniform, long storage crops. The end result is we are faced with the bland offering we find in Tesco et al. The public gets what the public wants

Taste is the one I love when discussing organics. Taste is often provided by sugars. Plant sugars break down under cold storage, no sugar equals no taste. ALL supermarket produce is cold-stored or chilled, usually on site by the producer. Organic produce is stored under the exact same conditions as non-organic produce. Better taste is imagined rather than actual. I could actively demonstrate this if we lived closer. Try buying a tomato from a supermarket, then find a tomato grower and buy one which has not been cold stored. One will taste like a tomato. It is true variety choice has an influence on taste but nothing like the influence of destroying the sugars which provide flavour!

In short the problem I have with organic, and why I consider it a waste of money is this: the consumer is not being given the whole picture, just the bit that makes them feel good. Secondly while organic produce is more expensive to produce it is not 30-40% more costly and while it is subjected to the same processes which remove taste from our food it cannot taste better

Good post.

'Local' Milk is a prime example.

Here is the bullsh1t that is fed to the public.....

http://www.tesco.com/regionalsourcing/localchoicemilk.asp

These are the facts behind the smell

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6264568.stm

This is just a single example of how the large supermarkets motivation is purely profit based and sweet FA to do with issues surrounding green / environmental / fair trade / local suppliers / animal welfare etc etc. We are all being 'legally' duped.

btw Just found this

http://www.tescopoly.org/