[Archived] This Will Stop Jordans Plan

[Fife Rover]

The 39th game stuff is a crock of poo. All the foreigners will flock to the Man Utd vs. Liverpool type games as loads are glory seeking types. The effect would be the top teams get more £, whilst us, Wigan etc. will be seen as making up the numbers, like non-Old Firm Scottish teams. Anyone who supports this idea wants the game to go to the dogs and the money men, and should go to watch the Manchester Red Sox and see some sawker involving pansies who are obsessed with the latest blingmobile.

There is also a huge number of practical problems. Imagine if you will, that Arsenal and Man Utd are the top two teams, and the 39th game throws up the following fixtures:

Man Utd vs. Derby (Sydney)

Arsenal vs. Aston Villa (New York)

These are the following problems:

1. Man Utd have a much easier game and can expect a win. Arsenal may come a cropper.

2. Would the games be played at the same time? The British audience would surely like to see their teams, which can lead to some interesting kick off times for the players. The difference in climate in the two cities could also play a part.

3. The knock on effect could be that Man Utd's longer journey back to Britain could damage their preparations for the next game.

Personally speaking, if this idea gains support from the Premiership, the Coca Cola leagues and below should leave the Premiership, as should all the teams not in the Big 4 (or should that be big 5 now ) and declare themselves the 'real football'. The FA would then have to choose between the hundreds of clubs that make up the fabric of the native game, or a handful of 'Harlem globetrotters' owned by money grabbing foreigners who trumpet hollow noises about loving the game of sawker.

Even if one of the 38 games were played abroad, it would be terrible for both us, and the host nation's domestic leagues.

The Premiership has become such a greedy, disgusting, pathetic, ego driven puss bag of a league I actually don't really fear relegation. If it happened, we would lose our better players, but at least the petty playground sniping, the name calling and the sheer distorted avarice of the top clubs and many of the better known players would be far from our door. Relegation would take us to the roots of football, and away from the poncy childish showbiz. Well, that's the silver lining to such a situation.

Now then! How about that? And I was really beginning to despair in the belief that I was the only one who thought along these kind of lines. I am as far as I know the only one who has actively stopped supporting Premier level football by paying on the gate, and has instead switched to supporting a couple of teams in the lower leagues in Fife. I did not take this decision lightly; it truly was a gut wrenching decision, especially to turn my back on the Rovers after over 60 years of supporting them home and away when I lived in Lancashire, but now I have done it I find the experience of watching Cowdenbeath or East Fife so very uplifting. Quite like football used to be 50 or 60 years ago, before money began to poison the beautiful game.

I must own to not being 100% true to my own beliefs, in that I do still have a subscription to Sky Sports. That is only because I am still wrestling with my conscience and cannot as yet. totally sever all links with my beloved Rovers. It's a bit like being divorced and still in love with your ex-wife I imagine.

[Ronin]

About this 39th game malarkey. I'm against it as it being played during the season, but say if the FA/Prem League were to have a winter shutdown like Germany etc, they could have a mini tourney that is played abroad then, or if not, then once the Intertoto finishes, why not have a pre-season mini tourney instead. I'm sure that would be a much better way of going about it than having an extra league game played abroad.

[RevidgeBlue]

Now then! How about that? And I was really beginning to despair in the belief that I was the only one who thought along these kind of lines. I am as far as I know the only one who has actively stopped supporting Premier level football by paying on the gate, and has instead switched to supporting a couple of teams in the lower leagues in Fife. I did not take this decision lightly; it truly was a gut wrenching decision, especially to turn my back on the Rovers after over 60 years of supporting them home and away when I lived in Lancashire, but now I have done it I find the experience of watching Cowdenbeath or East Fife so very uplifting. Quite like football used to be 50 or 60 years ago, before money began to poison the beautiful game.

I must own to not being 100% true to my own beliefs, in that I do still have a subscription to Sky Sports. That is only because I am still wrestling with my conscience and cannot as yet. totally sever all links with my beloved Rovers. It's a bit like being divorced and still in love with your ex-wife I imagine.

Not being funny Fife, but why should anyone take your opinion into account when by your own admission you took the decision some time ago to turn your back on Rovers and decided to boycott them?

[CAPT KAYOS]

Not being funny Fife, but why should anyone take your opinion into account when by your own admission you took the decision some time ago to turn your back on Rovers and decided to boycott them?

I think its more a connection with the Premier League cash cow more than anything Rev and its effects

However, in argument to that Fife I would also think the Sky Sports is sort of contributing to what you are against but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[Fife Rover]

Not being funny Fife, but why should anyone take your opinion into account when by your own admission you took the decision some time ago to turn your back on Rovers and decided to boycott them?

I activated my thoughts on this matter 2 years ago, and that was after struggling with my ever increasing feelings of revulsion with the way the game was heading, which for me started with the abolition of the maximum wage for players. Even back then in 1961 I could forsee the way things would eventually pan out. OK it took a long time before it became a complete and totally undisguised rip-off of the paying public, but with the formation of the Prem Leagues in both England and Scotland all pretence at covering up the greed was ended.

In spite of all the above, I had continued to support Rovers with a S/T right up to moving to Scotland in 1979, and then started to support Dunfermline also with a S/T through all their struggles and up's and downs, until they got into the SPL in 1987, and have stuck with both my teams until the beginning of 2006. I had a second home in Poulton nr Blackpool which enabled me to spend a fair bit of the seasons watching Rovers at Ewood but no S/T for those years.

It was in 2006 by which time I had sold my place in Poulton, and was starting to suffer real problems with getting about due to my age. I decided that the anger in me at being taken for a mug by the Prem Leagues, allied to the health problems, was more than I could bear any longer. So I took the fatal decision to stop supporting Prem League football. Note the distinction: NOT to stop supporting Rovers or DAFC; I still love both clubs as much as ever, but the feeling of being robbed blind by a combination of players and their thieving agents was just overwhelming. So I made the very difficult decision to turn my back on the Prem Legues (NOT the two clubs) and stop being ripped off at the gate. I would rather pay my dues to the more grass-roots clubs where the players get hardly more than expenses (they are all part timers) and give their all on horrible pitches in all weathers. Plus the true SUPPORT that these little teams get from their handful of supporters (typically c300) makes the whole thing for me far more enjoyable and entertaining than watching the likes of Ashley Cole and many others.

I hope that explains my philosophical position on this a bit better. Not that I expect you or anyone else to understand it. If you dont feel it you cant possibly understand it.

[Fife Rover]

I think its more a connection with the Premier League cash cow more than anything Rev and its effects

However, in argument to that Fife I would also think the Sky Sports is sort of contributing to what you are against but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Corect Capt. However if you read my post a little higher up on this thread, I did actually deal with that aspect/anomaly.

[Scotty]

It worries me a little how representative the Fan's Forum is on this issue. Every football fan I know, which ever club they support (be it big club or small) thinks the whole 39th game thing is a bad idea.

Everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion, but I hope the club don't end up feeling that supporter's opinion is split anywhere near 50/50 on the issue. I suspect the reality is that at least 90% of Rovers fans are against the idea.

[OscarRaven]

Well it's really quite simple isn't it? You're either in it or not - if the fans want Rovers to be a Championship Club rather than a Premier League Club it can be easily arranged..... and probably sooner rather than later

So when Glazer and friends say jump, we say how high - otherwise get out of the league?

Thats the kind of defeatism and apathy thats killing the game. So yes I'm all for the championship if at least we have sport and a say rather than being the 'rent boys' of the premier league.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Corect Capt. However if you read my post a little higher up on this thread, I did actually deal with that aspect/anomaly.

Correct again Fife - I wish you had been one of my teachers at school

[only2garners]

It worries me a little how representative the Fan's Forum is on this issue. Every football fan I know, which ever club they support (be it big club or small) thinks the whole 39th game thing is a bad idea.

Everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion, but I hope the club don't end up feeling that supporter's opinion is split anywhere near 50/50 on the issue. I suspect the reality is that at least 90% of Rovers fans are against the idea.

I'm not sure that as secretary even I know the views of everyone on the Forum on the 39th game. We had a discussion on Tuesday night and a number of members spoke but not all. A majority of those that spoke were against and those that were against were very strongly against. But there were a few comments that some form of overseas development was inevitable and they felt that it was better to be Rovers to be a part of it than to let the bigger clubs do something by themselves. My personal view is that I am against the current proposals but I don't want to dismiss out of hand any future proposals before hearing them. I think it's inevitable that the current proposal will be modified between now and next January when the PL has to make its final decision and I am glad that fans will have some say in that debate. It remains to be seen how effective that say will be but I can't dismiss the process before it's started.

I don't think the Forum is split 50/50 on the issue. I'm sure there is a majority against but equally it's not 90/10 either. What you have to remember is that in any discussion like this you are always more likely to contribute if you're against an idea than if you're in favour. In truth n o one knows the exact views of all Forum members because they haven't all been asked yet.

[CAPT KAYOS]

But there were a few comments that some form of overseas development was inevitable and they felt that it was better to be Rovers to be a part of it than to let the bigger clubs do something by themselves.

This is a possibility o2g but its the 'inevitable' that I have a problem with personally as I presume others do - the question has to be why its inevitable, why does there need to be overseas development?

If more oppose and the clubs do so as well, instead of agreeing to some of the inbrained ideas there would be no inevitable about it and things would just not happen.

[Billy Castell]

I activated my thoughts on this matter 2 years ago, and that was after struggling with my ever increasing feelings of revulsion with the way the game was heading, which for me started with the abolition of the maximum wage for players. Even back then in 1961 I could forsee the way things would eventually pan out. OK it took a long time before it became a complete and totally undisguised rip-off of the paying public, but with the formation of the Prem Leagues in both England and Scotland all pretence at covering up the greed was ended.

In spite of all the above, I had continued to support Rovers with a S/T right up to moving to Scotland in 1979, and then started to support Dunfermline also with a S/T through all their struggles and up's and downs, until they got into the SPL in 1987, and have stuck with both my teams until the beginning of 2006. I had a second home in Poulton nr Blackpool which enabled me to spend a fair bit of the seasons watching Rovers at Ewood but no S/T for those years.

It was in 2006 by which time I had sold my place in Poulton, and was starting to suffer real problems with getting about due to my age. I decided that the anger in me at being taken for a mug by the Prem Leagues, allied to the health problems, was more than I could bear any longer. So I took the fatal decision to stop supporting Prem League football. Note the distinction: NOT to stop supporting Rovers or DAFC; I still love both clubs as much as ever, but the feeling of being robbed blind by a combination of players and their thieving agents was just overwhelming. So I made the very difficult decision to turn my back on the Prem Legues (NOT the two clubs) and stop being ripped off at the gate. I would rather pay my dues to the more grass-roots clubs where the players get hardly more than expenses (they are all part timers) and give their all on horrible pitches in all weathers. Plus the true SUPPORT that these little teams get from their handful of supporters (typically c300) makes the whole thing for me far more enjoyable and entertaining than watching the likes of Ashley Cole and many others.

I hope that explains my philosophical position on this a bit better. Not that I expect you or anyone else to understand it. If you dont feel it you cant possibly understand it.

I can understand that position. You love Rovers, but are pig sick of all the money and soap opera that comes with being in the top flight. Whilst I don't believe a maximum wage can be workable these days, as the EU would oppose it, perhaps a maximum salary budget of say £4m can be introduced, as I believe is the case in rugby league. This salary cap will include bonuses, and will not be depandant on the club's turnover. This would level out the playing field to an extent. Whilst it was long before my time, the maximum wage cap that was around before 1961 would be harder to manage, and restricting wages to a percentage of turnover would only increase the disparity between clubs. A strict maximum wage would also discourage people from taking up professional sport, as my grandad shows. When he was young, Castleford approached him to play Rugby League, and offered him the maximum allowed. My grandad would have to have taken a pay cut as he was working in a steel factory and earning a couple of pounds playing amatuer football for Spennymoor Utd or Bishop Auckland. This was probably in the 1950's though, and people who owned and ran the top sporting clubs were completely different to today's.

[RevidgeBlue]

It worries me a little how representative the Fan's Forum is on this issue. Every football fan I know, which ever club they support (be it big club or small) thinks the whole 39th game thing is a bad idea.

Everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion, but I hope the club don't end up feeling that supporter's opinion is split anywhere near 50/50 on the issue. I suspect the reality is that at least 90% of Rovers fans are against the idea.

In that case, everyone vehemently opposed to the proposal should contact John Williams/Tom Finn setting out their views.

In your particular case perhaps we could get you into the meeting when there is a Premier League representative present as we have requested.

It does seem to be the Club's position that overseas expansion is inevitable in some form at some stage although it is acknowledged that there are serious problems with the original proposal and it may not take that exact form.

[RevidgeBlue]

I activated my thoughts on this matter 2 years ago, and that was after struggling with my ever increasing feelings of revulsion with the way the game was heading, which for me started with the abolition of the maximum wage for players. Even back then in 1961 I could forsee the way things would eventually pan out. OK it took a long time before it became a complete and totally undisguised rip-off of the paying public, but with the formation of the Prem Leagues in both England and Scotland all pretence at covering up the greed was ended.

In spite of all the above, I had continued to support Rovers with a S/T right up to moving to Scotland in 1979, and then started to support Dunfermline also with a S/T through all their struggles and up's and downs, until they got into the SPL in 1987, and have stuck with both my teams until the beginning of 2006. I had a second home in Poulton nr Blackpool which enabled me to spend a fair bit of the seasons watching Rovers at Ewood but no S/T for those years.

It was in 2006 by which time I had sold my place in Poulton, and was starting to suffer real problems with getting about due to my age. I decided that the anger in me at being taken for a mug by the Prem Leagues, allied to the health problems, was more than I could bear any longer. So I took the fatal decision to stop supporting Prem League football. Note the distinction: NOT to stop supporting Rovers or DAFC; I still love both clubs as much as ever, but the feeling of being robbed blind by a combination of players and their thieving agents was just overwhelming. So I made the very difficult decision to turn my back on the Prem Legues (NOT the two clubs) and stop being ripped off at the gate. I would rather pay my dues to the more grass-roots clubs where the players get hardly more than expenses (they are all part timers) and give their all on horrible pitches in all weathers. Plus the true SUPPORT that these little teams get from their handful of supporters (typically c300) makes the whole thing for me far more enjoyable and entertaining than watching the likes of Ashley Cole and many others.

I hope that explains my philosophical position on this a bit better. Not that I expect you or anyone else to understand it. If you dont feel it you cant possibly understand it.

Fife, thanks very much for explaining your position - you don't have to justify yourself to me or anyone else, neither does anyone else who might choose not to go to Ewood for any particular reason.

I don't feel the same way as you, if I did (and was physically able) I would probably stick with my beloved Club/s and completely boycott my Sky subscriptions and away games etc.

I just feel that things change and move on in all walks of life and football is absolutely no exception. We might feel a lot of things things are not for the better and we might hanker back to the nostalgia of our old MK 1 Ford Escort etc but the harsh reality is that our safe and reliable new Ford Focus is infinitely beter.

As a side issue, surely you can't really lump the likes of Dunfermline and their players into the same "greed" trough as the Premiership clubs?

[AggyBlue]

hanker back to the nostalgia of our old MK 1 Ford Escort etc but the harsh reality is that our safe and reliable new Ford Focus is infinitely beter.

Yes, but far less exciting

[CAPT KAYOS]

In that case, everyone vehemently opposed to the proposal should contact John Williams/Tom Finn setting out their views.

The thing is Rev, are many a Rover's Fan ( or any other clubs fans) aware of the clubs intentions apart from the select FF band for example?

Its seems to me from the replies here from yourself /and 02g and also emanating from the Rovers and other clubs that things are already set in stone for some form of overseas project as if its a must -and it's this epecially for me that I find difficult to comprehend.

As many of us know 'us' Rovers fans are not exactly proactive at making themselves heard except for moaning,but I think an 'offer ' from the club requesting opinions would be a starter (unless I have missed something), as it still smacks in the face to me of a case of take it or leave it ... with the latter being the one I suspect many a fan will take.

INEVITABLE - A nasty word

[RevidgeBlue]

The thing is Rev, are many a Rover's Fan ( or any other clubs fans) aware of the clubs intentions apart from the select FF band for example?

Its seems to me from the replies here from yourself /and 02g and also emanating from the Rovers and other clubs that things are already set in stone for some form of overseas project as if its a must -and it's this epecially for me that I find difficult to comprehend.

As many of us know 'us' Rovers fans are not exactly proactive at making themselves heard except for moaning,but I think an 'offer ' from the club requesting opinions would be a starter (unless I have missed something), as it still smacks in the face to me of a case of take it or leave it ... with the latter being the one I suspect many a fan will take.

INEVITABLE - A nasty word

Not sure that's entirely fair Capt. there is nothing whatsoever set in stone as far as I am aware and John Williams indicated in that interview in the LT a few weeks ago that there were fans views to be taken on board. Tom Finn indicated that we were one of the clubs that had made a particular point of flagging up the potential unfairness of the 39th fixture and to be fair he said "the big four" had pointed this out to the PL as well.

[roversmum]

So when Glazer and friends say jump, we say how high - otherwise get out of the league?

Thats the kind of defeatism and apathy thats killing the game. So yes I'm all for the championship if at least we have sport and a say rather than being the 'rent boys' of the premier league.

Not necessarily. I am a former Trade Unionist (still one at heart) and Parish Councillor and have always believed that part of my remit was that if something was inevitable then I would do my best to make sure that my members/constituents got the best deal possible in the circumstances. I don't agree that is defeatism and apathy at all.

[RevidgeBlue]

Yes, but far less exciting

To use football as a specific example I don't agree with that.

It's difficult to gauge in Rovers case, as we weren't around in the top flight in the 70's and 80's but I think we'd have found that instead of Arsenal/ManUre/Chelsea winning the League it was Liverpool or Leeds or Liverpool or Forest or Liverpool or Arsenal. Much more exciting!

As for Rovers without being artificially propped up by TV money we'd probably have been a lot less competitive and avoiding relegation let alone UEFA Cup places would probably have been a pipe dream.

[Paul]

we might hanker back to the nostalgia of our old MK 1 Ford Escort etc but the harsh reality is that our safe and reliable new Ford Focus is infinitely beter.

Trouble is that old MK1 was pretty exciting with all it's noise, bumps, etc while the Focus is pretty dull. It isn't better Rev, it's dull, safe, homogenised, pap for the masses

What about the days when it was worth sitting down with the league tables / fixtures and working out how you might just scrape promotion or a championship? What about the time when it was exciting to watch a televised European game? Where has it all gone? Up in a puff of smoke. That was the MK1 and it was a damn sight more exciting than the PL. I've been watching this game for more than 40 years and I've never known it so dull. Too much football, too much media, too much TV and above all too much money has destroyed the national game.

Football has become entertainment, even for the diehard fans it's becoming a question of "come on then entertain me." Why does the ground have no atmosphere, why has the singing stopped? Because it's dull, the fans are not connected with the players, there is just nothing left to get passionate about. I was posting this 5-6 years ago and as we move closer and closer to globalised football the reality is the game is dead as a competitive sport.

The day Rovers move a home game to another country is the day I stop.....and it will happen before I die.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Not sure that's entirely fair Capt. there is nothing whatsoever set in stone as far as I am aware and John Williams indicated in that interview in the LT a few weeks ago that there were fans views to be taken on board. Tom Finn indicated that we were one of the clubs that had made a particular point of flagging up the potential unfairness of the 39th fixture and to be fair he said "the big four" had pointed this out to the PL as well.

Wasn't meaning it to sound fair or unfair Rev and you have actually answered here a bit more about what I was trying to get to.

My point is that the information being provided for us fans (in general) IMO is being portrayed in such a way that its a take it or leave it scenario with the deadly 'inevitable' (which I hate as much as 'punching above our weight' )cropping up all the time.

[RevidgeBlue]

INEVITABLE - A nasty word

Capt, can I put it another way.

If you asked me "Do you not think it is inevitable at some stage the bigger clubs (not just big four) will seek to further expand their respective brands globally?"

and

"Do you not think it's better for Rovers to be part of that than miss out altogether?"

And I answered "no" to either,

you'd think I was going a bit doolally wouldn't you?

[RevidgeBlue]

What about the days when it was worth sitting down with the league tables / fixtures and working out how you might just scrape promotion or a championship? What about the time when it was exciting to watch a televised European game? Where has it all gone? Up in a puff of smoke. That was the MK1 and it was a damn sight more exciting than the PL.

It only seems that way because now we are in the highest division we can compete in and back in the day we were competing at a much lower level therefore it was possible to challenge for promotion etc. intermittently. But hell let's not get carried away with the notion that EVERY season was a rip roaring, nerve shredding roller coaster like that because it simply wasn't. There were no realistic prospects of winning/getting to the finals/semi finals of a major cup competition in "t' good old days" either.

There were also seasons when we had to battle against relegation but frankly I'd rather be good enough to be boring and finish safely mid table no matter what division we were in.

Couldn't agree more about the boring format of the so called Champions League as opposed to the old European Cup. That said, would I like to see Rovers in the CL? I'd probably chop one of my arms off!.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Capt, can I put it another way.

If you asked me "Do you not think it is inevitable at some stage the bigger clubs (not just big four) will seek to further expand their respective brands globally?"

and

"Do you not think it's better for Rovers to be part of that than miss out altogether?"

And I answered "no" to either,

you'd think I was going a bit doolally wouldn't you?

Doolally ... aren't you already - sorry couldn't resist

In answer I know where your coming from ... think its just something that we certainly won't agreee upon.

[only2garners]

In that case, everyone vehemently opposed to the proposal should contact John Williams/Tom Finn setting out their views.

In your particular case perhaps we could get you into the meeting when there is a Premier League representative present as we have requested.

It does seem to be the Club's position that overseas expansion is inevitable in some form at some stage although it is acknowledged that there are serious problems with the original proposal and it may not take that exact form.

Although we haven't asked it may be possible to get a more public meeting with the PL rep than just the FF, so that anyone can come along and offer their opinions.