[Archived] This Will Stop Jordans Plan

[broadsword]

It's about integrity.

I'm sure it's very nice for Jan that she can afford to jet off to wherever to watch a Premier League game. But what about the game's traditions? Money has already disfigured things enough, a first division which is now a Premiership, a second division that became a first and is now a championship etc etc. A cup for European champions that you can win if you come fourth in your league. Top flight players now earning more in a week than they did in a year 27 years ago (av top flight salary in 1981 was £11k apparently), kick-off times all over the place and only highlights available to the man in the street unless they want to pay for a subscription service.

But it's a rollicking good idea because it offers those with the means to do so, to go to Abu Dhabi to watch a game, and ensures that the financial chasm between top flight clubs and the rest grows ever wider.

Oh well, THAT'S OK THEN! Why didn't you say so before, sounds a marvellous idea.

I'm beginning to despair of football, it's a parody of itself at the moment.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Quite right Bryan.

And the extra income goes where? Into more stupid wage deals and agents' back pockets.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just to clarify, I have no strong views about this proposal (that's all it is at this stage) either way, and if anyone can come up with a way we can make 5m quid easier than playing ninety minutes football somewhere sunny one weekend in January then I'd prefer things were left as they are.

Until then beggars can't be choosers.

I just can't believe the furore all this has caused. It made me think back to that home UEFA Cup tie we played at 6p.m. to accomodate foreign TV. so we could pocket the relatively measly sum (in comparison) of 600k.

Then the majority view was that although it would seriously inconvenience a minority of regular supporters who wouldn't be able to attend, that was just hard luck on them because we had to take the money.

That was far worse than this proposal imo. Then we were depriving committed supporters of a key fixture through no fault of their own. That was deemed to be OK.

Now it's proposed there's an EXTRA fixture which never previously existed anyway and which will be televised live, and everyone is up in arms!

The only people directly affected by this imo are those extremely rare (and mad ) breed of fans who never miss a match home, away or pre-season. I personally know of only two people in that category, one of whom is Jordan, and if I understand his post correctly, he quite fancies the idea!

[RevidgeBlue]

Quite right Bryan.

And the extra income goes where? Into more stupid wage deals and agents' back pockets.

That's a very valid concern but really a separate issue entirely.

[tony gale's mic]

it's not a separate issue though, it's a 100% definite knock on effect of what will happen if we give every club in the premier league an extra £5 million. if any of you were footballers and suddenly you had to jet halfway across the world, be jetlagged and play an extra game in a foreign climate, you'd want a cut of the money that generated anyway. and also as i've repeatedly said, if every club has more money then competition between them will mean what they offer to players will simply increase and everyone's wage bill will go up.

i can't believe things like integrity and tradition mean absolutely nothing to some of you. this is far more than moving a UEFA cup tie to 6.00pm. this extra fixture will become a key fixture as it's part of the league, so this is much worse as not only will very few rovers fans be able to travel that far, but also it skews the premier league table and makes things totally unfair for sides who have to play one of the top teams in this extra fixture.

[AggyBlue]

Just to clarify, I have no strong views about this proposal (that's all it is at this stage) either way, and if anyone can come up with a way we can make 5m quid easier than playing ninety minutes football somewhere sunny one weekend in January then I'd prefer things were left as they are.

The same principle. Five seeded teams, three others drawn with each, making five groups of four.

Fly each group to far flung cities across the globe for a pre season mini knockout tournament.

Problem solved.

[tony gale's mic]

this £5 million is irrelavant, completely irrelevant if everyone else is getting the same amount.

[RevidgeBlue]

this £5 million is irrelavant, completely irrelevant if everyone else is getting the same amount.

I can sympathise with a lot of what you say, but you're completely wrong on that point, proportionately we'd be quite a bit better off.

[tony gale's mic]

I can sympathise with a lot of what you say, but you're completely wrong on that point, proportionately we'd be quite a bit better off.

but so would all the clubs we'd be competing with, thus rendering it of little use. the vast majority of it would go straight back into the players' pocket and just serve to increase wage bills.

and i still think as regards foreign fans, the other clubs we currently compete with would pretty much all have more of a chance of both shifting tickets and for merchandising.

[Korean John]

There are growing numbers of Rovers fans here in Korea.

There are 301 registered members of this Blackburn Rovers fan site.

http://cafe.naver.com/brfc

[Paul Mellelieu]

Rev,

The vast majority of Rovers' fans could make the 6pm kickoff. Only the very well off, or extremely committed will be able to make this additional game.

But that's not the issue really.

What concerns the majority of fans is the crassness of the proposal, and the PL's justification for it. This proposal is symbolic of the disconnection between the money-bags bosses of football and the ordinary fan, who is routinely ripped-off by clubs whose owners increasingly have no real link with the communities that are football's foundations. For me it's the straw that breaks the camel's back.

We need resources to compete, too true, but not this way. Some things are more important that "up to" £5m.

[philipl]

Rather more detail about the idea here.

If a pre-requisite is for the destination to be warm (for a January fixture), Beijing and Moscow are ruled out.

The draw would be based on the previous season end's table.

[Jan]

Rather more detail about the idea here.

If a pre-requisite is for the destination to be warm (for a January fixture), Beijing and Moscow are ruled out.

The draw would be based on the previous season end's table.

If it's made on the previous season's table doesn't that require no promotion/relegation? Suppose they could slot in the promoted club but..............

Aside from that it sounds well thought-out and not too shabby an idea.

[tony gale's mic]

lets hope none of these national football associations agree to it. it's nothing more than sheer arrogance on our part.

[broadsword]

As other people have hinted, the extra money would just contribute to wage inflation. Didn't Alan Sugar coin the financial workings of football the "colandar effect", it all just washes straight through into other pople's pockets.

Every team earning an extra 5 mill just raises the bar on wage expenditure. No team really would want to spend extra money on players' wages (they already get more than enough), but some team will be stupid enough to, so everyone else will have to do it to catch up. Isn't this what economists know as the Tragedy of the Commons? Now, if it was just Rovers getting an extra 5 mill I'd be inclined to agree that this was good (although I still wouldn't want us to play a game on Pluto to get the cash), but it isn't.

As for not moaning about UEFA games playing at 6pm etc etc, I think this is just the straw that breaks the camel's back. You can only muck people about so much.

As Ian Holloway said, why do they need to play games abroad to promote the Premier League (or should I say "brand", bloody marketing-speak), the games are televised to every country on Earth, which member of the population doesn't know about the premier league, I'll give 'em a ring and sell them a Sky Subscription!

I can almost see a day when they'll stop playing in front of the fans, because it isn't lucrative enough.

[tony gale's mic]

As other people have hinted, the extra money would just contribute to wage inflation. Didn't Alan Sugar coin the financial workings of football the "colandar effect", it all just washes straight through into other pople's pockets.

Every team earning an extra 5 mill just raises the bar on wage expenditure. No team really would want to spend extra money on players' wages (they already get more than enough), but some team will be stupid enough to, so everyone else will have to do it to catch up. Isn't this what economists know as the Tragedy of the Commons? Now, if it was just Rovers getting an extra 5 mill I'd be inclined to agree that this was good (although I still wouldn't want us to play a game on Pluto to get the cash), but it isn't.

i've tried this one many a time in this thread already bryan, some people just don't seem to understand it or dismiss it as 'hypothetical', when its not.

[roversmum]

this £5 million is irrelevant, completely irrelevant if everyone else is getting the same amount.

It wouldn't be irrelevant if we were one of the teams not getting it, ie in the Championship. Personally I prefer Rovers to be in the top flight whatever it takes.

There are Rovers fans overseas who would welcome the idea. Granted at the moment there are few rather than more of them, but if would be great for them. And if Brand Rovers is going to be more recognised world wide - why not? We have the history, we are a small town club, we can mix it with the 'big' guys - handled correctly it could be good. I'm not jumping out of my pram because I possibly could not go but if the idea is suggested there is obviously a market for it. I have been feeling lately that the club lacked ambition, particularly in relation to their marketing and overseas fans. It doesn't stop local fans watching their team as far as I can make out.

On the other hand, if most folks would be happy if we were back playing the likes of Scunthorpe and Colchester, so be it. And with all the goings on at our erstwhile neighbours, the great Burnley, who are planning big things such as rebuilding their stadium and opening an Academy, I'd be even sicker if they, as Nicko seems to think is possible, get in to the Premier League.

[RevidgeBlue]

i've tried this one many a time in this thread already bryan, some people just don't seem to understand it or dismiss it as 'hypothetical', when its not.

That's because although on that particular point you're wrong, you're coming from a viewpoint that you're automatically right when you're not!

If you're penniless and the bloke who lives next door has 15m, then all of a sudden out of nowhere you come into 5m but the bloke next door has 20m then relatively speaking you're far better off under the second scenario.

It's so basic it's not really even worth discussing.

[RevidgeBlue]

It wouldn't be irrelevant if we were one of the teams not getting it, ie in the Championship. Personally I prefer Rovers to be in the top flight whatever it takes.

There are Rovers fans overseas who would welcome the idea. Granted at the moment there are few rather than more of them, but if would be great for them. And if Brand Rovers is going to be more recognised world wide - why not? We have the history, we are a small town club, we can mix it with the 'big' guys - handled correctly it could be good. I'm not jumping out of my pram because I possibly could not go but if the idea is suggested there is obviously a market for it. I have been feeling lately that the club lacked ambition, particularly in relation to their marketing and overseas fans. It doesn't stop local fans watching their team as far as I can make out.

On the other hand, if most folks would be happy if we were back playing the likes of Scunthorpe and Colchester, so be it. And with all the goings on at our erstwhile neighbours, the great Burnley, who are planning big things such as rebuilding their stadium and opening an Academy, I'd be even sicker if they, as Nicko seems to think is possible, get in to the Premier League.

Well said mum, excellent post.

[tony gale's mic]

That's because although on that particular point you're wrong, you're coming from a viewpoint that you're automatically right when you're not!

If you're penniless and the bloke who lives next door has 15m, then all of a sudden out of nowhere you come into 5m but the bloke next door has 20m then relatively speaking you're far better off under the second scenario.

It's so basic it's not really even worth discussing.

not if the 5 million, or the vast bulk of that 5 million, disappears straight back into the players pockets. again, so basic it's not even worth discussing.

[RevidgeBlue]

not if the 5 million, or the vast bulk of that 5 million, disappears straight back into the players pockets. again, so basic it's not even worth discussing.

Even if that did happen, it would presumably in comparative terms go a long way towards helping us strengthen our squad.

5m means a lot more to us than to Man Ure for example.

[tony gale's mic]

It wouldn't be irrelevant if we were one of the teams not getting it, ie in the Championship. Personally I prefer Rovers to be in the top flight whatever it takes.

There are Rovers fans overseas who would welcome the idea. Granted at the moment there are few rather than more of them, but if would be great for them. And if Brand Rovers is going to be more recognised world wide - why not? We have the history, we are a small town club, we can mix it with the 'big' guys - handled correctly it could be good. I'm not jumping out of my pram because I possibly could not go but if the idea is suggested there is obviously a market for it. I have been feeling lately that the club lacked ambition, particularly in relation to their marketing and overseas fans. It doesn't stop local fans watching their team as far as I can make out.

On the other hand, if most folks would be happy if we were back playing the likes of Scunthorpe and Colchester, so be it. And with all the goings on at our erstwhile neighbours, the great Burnley, who are planning big things such as rebuilding their stadium and opening an Academy, I'd be even sicker if they, as Nicko seems to think is possible, get in to the Premier League.

personally whatever happens, i'm a football fan aswell as a rovers fan. and like enough of us have said this hypothetical 5 million will just trickle down into the pockets of the footballers and agents as that's whats always happened when there's been an influx of money into the game. we're not going to be relatively any financially stronger really because of it in comparison to the other premier league teams, and there'll be the very real threat of rovers entering a relegation battle.

now we have a great manager and a squad who can keep us out of that mess, but hughes will leave, santa, bentley and samba will too. and it won't even take a poor manager to take us into a relegation scrap, hell look at all the quite good managers who have spent vast multiples of what we have in recent years to just be on the same level as us. we'll still be a relatively very poor team in comparison to the rest of the league. and if we do get dragged into a relegation scrap and go down, then what will everyone think of this cash cow? fair or unfair?

unlike many on this board my rovers obsession doesnt encompass an unhealthy obsession with our six fingered neighbours. theyre funny to sing about, laugh at, but in these considerations whether burnley go ahead of us or not is an absolute side issue. and to be honest as a football fan aswell as a rovers fan, i'd rather we went down to the championship and participated in a competition with some integrity left, than be part of a travelling circus which stretches the rights and pockets of fans further and further. not that thats even a major consideration here, because as i said this extra money really wouldnt benefit us that much.

[RevidgeBlue]

"There are clubs who will go off and do this anyway. They will make X million pounds out of it and the rest will make nought."

Whatever you think of Scudamore, and I'm not his biggest fan, I think this is the crux of it and I can't see how anyone else can disagree with his comment above.

[Fife Rover]

That's because although on that particular point you're wrong, you're coming from a viewpoint that you're automatically right when you're not!

If you're penniless and the bloke who lives next door has 15m, then all of a sudden out of nowhere you come into 5m but the bloke next door has 20m then relatively speaking you're far better off under the second scenario.

It's so basic it's not really even worth discussing.

Of course you are better off taken in isolation as in your example, but if you and the bloke next door are competing for survival in the same market place, are you still betteroff? Yes you are for a very short while i.e. until you and the bloke next door both want to purchase the same football player, then who is better off?

[AggyBlue]

"There are clubs who will go off and do this anyway. They will make X million pounds out of it and the rest will make nought."

Whatever you think of Scudamore, and I'm not his biggest fan, I think this is the crux of it and I can't see how anyone else can disagree with his comment above.

Yes, pre-season with no points at stake. Good for them.