[Archived] Dna Database - Yes Or No?

[fee]

whilst i can appreciate both sides of the debate i do think a DNA register/database for people already in the criminal system is a good idea as it would help to both implicate and eradicate possible suspects.

For instance bodily fluids found on a murder victim are pretty damning and there have been cases where innocent people have been convicted, served several years incarcerated then DNA had proved them innocent.

If someone is already in the system then their right to 'DNA anonymity' should be revoked as a consequence.

As for minor crimes i think fingerprint evidence along with good old proof should suffice.

For major crimes DNA support should be viewed as a tool to eliminate possible suspects and to further investigate others depending on alibis and profile matches.

[blue phil]

I just wish the government would try and PREVENT crime instead of simply trying to mop up the consequences of crime - and in the process taking away yet more freedom from the law abiding majority in the process .

It started off with CCTV replacing a visible police presence , then road cameras , and now DNA testing .

The logical next step is to computer chip every person in the land so that their whereabouts are known at all times ; therefore every crime is easy to solve .

Think it won't happen ? It'll start off with immigrants , then known criminals , then new born babies .....and eventually everyone .

I truly believe this government would do it all tomorrow if they thought they could . Instead they'll do it step by step .

[philipl]

All this ID guff is bonkers.

HMG screwing up is a far greater threat to the average citizen than Osama Bin Laden and his mates. Thankfully I have the option of switching citizenship rather than putting up with all this nonsense.

I am looking to bring a 78 member symphony orchestra to the UK just after the Visa rules change. They all need to be finger printed, DNA tested, AIDS certificated and genitally profiled in the British Embassy.

OK some of that was made up but at a cost of £10K and a 1,000 mile round trip to be humiliated I think we will stuff the British Visas and use the Schengen Visas at a quarter of the cost and enjoy the freedom of Europe to perform in Paris, Barcelona, Monaco and Florence.

[Flopsy]

DNA database is all well and good if you can be sure that it is

1) Secure; and

2) Safe from a data input error

Neither of which is possible therefore, no its a bad idea, if you get charged with an offence then yes your DNA should be kept, if not, no you shouldnt.

[Paul]

and genitally profiled in the British Embassy.

Now that really is going too far

[Flopsy]

do they take plaster casts do you think?

[philipl]

whatever- that bit was a joke but quite honestly when reading through the form, I began to expect it would be the next instruction!

[BuckyRover]

with 60m people on this databases even a very low error rate could result in many, many false convictions.

How can you argue against a DNA match?

[American]

Get a re-test using DNA you are positive is yours.

Agree with what BP says though, little by little they take away our freedoms. Just look at the lack of outrage here for the Patriot Act.

[den]

It started off with CCTV replacing a visible police presence , then road cameras , and now DNA testing .

The logical next step is to computer chip every person in the land so that their whereabouts are known at all times ; therefore every crime is easy to solve .

I don't have any problem, with any of that BP.

Anything that protects the innocent is fine by me. There's very little left about the individual that isn't already known, - and it's not a problem.

[Billy Castell]

I find it unnerving, when taken in conjunction with ID cards, the erosion of a trial by jury and so on. We are sleep walking into a 'police state' that has a government that knows all about us, and is willing to sell details to the private sector for targetted junk mail.

There is also the fact that a memory stick with DNA details will inevitably go walkies.

DNA is fundamental to our existence, and not something the state can demand we give.

[yoda]

I don't have any problem, with any of that BP.

Anything that protects the innocent is fine by me. There's very little left about the individual that isn't already known, - and it's not a problem.

Ask Jeremy Clarkson if still agrees

[blue phil]

I don't have any problem, with any of that BP.

Anything that protects the innocent is fine by me. There's very little left about the individual that isn't already known, - and it's not a problem.

I don't think you've even begun to think it through , Den .

You might trust Blair or Brown or Straw .....(probably about the only person in the country left who does ...)

But who comes after that ?

And how many people along the line would have access to the information ? Police , council and government employees , tax officials , social workers , teachers , employers , divorce courts ?

Where would you draw the line ? Cameras in the home to prevent domestic violence ....?

(No doubt you'll reply with the standard argument that anyone who doesn't agree can leave ..... )

[den]

I don't think you've even begun to think it through , Den .

You might trust Blair or Brown or Straw .....(probably about the only person in the country left who does ...)

But who comes after that ?

And how many people along the line would have access to the information ? Police , council and government employees , tax officials , social workers , teachers , employers , divorce courts ?

Where would you draw the line ? Cameras in the home to prevent domestic violence ....?

(No doubt you'll reply with the standard argument that anyone who doesn't agree can leave ..... )

Well after having another political dig and another dig about the moderating which was totally uncalled for, seeing that I don't recall saying that to anyone, you might have bothered to say why you're against all of those.

Of course, me saying I've nothing against any of those things, I was partly tongue in cheek about everyone being microchipped. Tell you what though, there would be millions more people alive now if that was the case.

[blue phil]

Well after having another political dig and another dig about the moderating which was totally uncalled for, seeing that I don't recall saying that to anyone, you might have bothered to say why you're against all of those.

Of course, me saying I've nothing against any of those things, I was partly tongue in cheek about everyone being microchipped. Tell you what though, there would be millions more people alive now if that was the case.

It could be argued that there would be millions more dead .....

Like I said it all depends on who has access to the data and for what purpose they want to use it .

All it takes is a little imagination as to where it could all go wrong .

Please don't take that as a personal insult on your political beliefs or a slight on the moderating team ..........it's partly tongue in cheek

[den]

Please don't take that as a personal insult on your political beliefs or a slight on the moderating team ..........it's partly tongue in cheek

My political beliefs [ if I have any] don't come into it, but Ok fair do's.

As for the original question, [without checking what it was ], I would have absolutely no qualms about registering on a DNA database. Can't really understand why anyone would. Personal freedoms this day and age, would IMO, be served by this.

[broadsword]

How would they take your DNA, a mouth swab?

A bit invasive, isn't it? Especially seeing as I haven't even committed a crime.

Why don't the government cut back on the amount of pointless paperwork police have to fill in, get rid of the pointless plastic bobbies, get police back on the beat policing, instead of chasing targets and making easy nickings.

How will it be paid for? Perhaps we'll be taxed for having DNA?

[PAFELL]

How would they take your DNA, a mouth swab?

A bit invasive, isn't it? Especially seeing as I haven't even committed a crime.

Why don't the government cut back on the amount of pointless paperwork police have to fill in, get rid of the pointless plastic bobbies, get police back on the beat policing, instead of chasing targets and making easy nickings.

How will it be paid for? Perhaps we'll be taxed for having DNA?

It would be a mouth swab - the frightening thing about DNA is it stays wherever it is left. By that I mean, when you go into a room, sit down, say on a bed, your DNA is in that room on that bed. It remains on that bed, you never know where that bed could ' eventually end up. If a crime is committed, wherever that bed is your DNA is at the crime scene. Very frightening, because how do you prove you were not at the crime scene. DNA evidence is good in one sence, but extremely frightening in another. A mother who had to 'give up' their child for whatever reason could be traced with DNA database.

I have worked with victims of miscarriage of Justice - and it would surprise many if they really knew how many times DNA evidence was wrong, yet used against a defendant.

[broadsword]

"Surprise", sounds like "scare the living bejeebers out of" would be a better phrase?

[Alan75]

Good thing if managed correctly, but with the government departments recent record of losing data files........very worrying.

or a Bryan states "scares the living bejeebers out of" would be a better phrase?

[Drummer Boy]

Don't like it at all - the fundamental principles of individual freedom and liberty upon which this country is built are, in my opinion, more under threat than ever before, what with people who have nothing better to do than create laws aimed at the minority that impinge on the liberties of the majority. Big Brother really is watching and it's time we gave him a poke in the all-seeing eye!

I say all this as a reasonably law-abiding citizen (or is that subject?) with some difficulty as I do appreciate how such capabilities help capture criminals, but feel that an increasingly interfering state and cynical/incompetent institutions would abuse such information were it to become available to them. So, it's back to traditional policing and a few lucky types getting away with it for me, I'm afraid.

[den]

Don't like it at all - the fundamental principles of individual freedom and liberty upon which this country is built are, in my opinion, more under threat than ever before, what with people who have nothing better to do than create laws aimed at the minority that impinge on the liberties of the majority. Big Brother really is watching and it's time we gave him a poke in the all-seeing eye!

Depends what you call freedom.

I would call freedom the ability to walk across london Rd in Preston without being slaughtered by some imbacile doing 110 MPH in a 30 MPH zone, - as a woman was a few years ago. Speed camera's are more than welcome as far as I'm concerned.

Freedom is being able to walk around Leyland at 11pm at night, without being attacked by some drug/alcohol fuelled yob. CCTV camera's are welcome also.

If DNA databases mean less crime because people know they're more likely to be imprisoned, or they mean that more people are actually caught, they are welcome as well.

Of course it would be ideal to have police around every corner, but that isn't about to happen.

[Paul]

I help run a sports club for young people with disability of one form or another. A few months back one of the members decided to leave without telling anyone. Thanks to the local CCTV system it was possible to track the walkabout and to drive to collect him four miles from the club. Without CCTV I'd rather not dwell on what could have happened.

It isn't all bad.

[Drummer Boy]

Depends what you call freedom.

I would call freedom the ability to walk across london Rd in Preston without being slaughtered by some imbacile doing 110 MPH in a 30 MPH zone, - as a woman was a few years ago. Speed camera's are more than welcome as far as I'm concerned.

Freedom is being able to walk around Leyland at 11pm at night, without being attacked by some drug/alcohol fuelled yob. CCTV camera's are welcome also.

If DNA databases mean less crime because people know they're more likely to be imprisoned, or they mean that more people are actually caught, they are welcome as well.

Of course it would be ideal to have police around every corner, but that isn't about to happen.

I help run a sports club for young people with disability of one form or another. A few months back one of the members decided to leave without telling anyone. Thanks to the local CCTV system it was possible to track the walkabout and to drive to collect him four miles from the club. Without CCTV I'd rather not dwell on what could have happened.

It isn't all bad.

Two good points well raised:

To me, freedom is being able to travel across the country without being monitored whether I like it or not - the key to me is not having a need to monitor and I feel much of the "CCTV and stuff" is addressing a symptom of a wider malaise in society rather than the root causes; being attacked by some drug-fuelled yob who ought to be at home is a relatively recent phenomenon the cause of which ought to be addressed.

As for the member leaving the club without telling anyone, I understand the point being made but am not sure I want to be monitored in case an individual disappears unwittingly. Is there an alternative answer, for example:

Ensure sufficient support to be able to keep an eye on people

Lock the exit

Ask people in the area if they have seen someone resembling a description of the missing person

I know I'm setting myself up to be knocked down with this, especially when it comes to missing children and catching violent muggers and the like, and to an extent I can agree, but I do feel it worth asking if the invasion of individual privacy and liberty has gone too far and that, once again, we find ourselves having to tolerate something we shouldn't have to just so that the minority can be managed at the expense of the desires of the majority. As I said, we should address the causes not the symptoms.

[Flopsy]

1)Ensure sufficient support to be able to keep an eye on people

2)Lock the exit

3)Ask people in the area if they have seen someone resembling a description of the missing person

1) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Volunteering your time then (I know exactly what you mean but thats the issue - getting people to help)

2) It's probably a fire escape, you cant secure them from the inside with out causing a greater danger to those inside

3) "No mate" "No I was inside watching Corrie" " (Please don't use that word again) off copper" will be the answer's you'll probably get. The best way is to get tracking systems for the individuals, which are now reletively cheap and on the market which can be attached to clothing/shoes.